What I Had To Say To My Clan That I'm Not Happy About At All

[Abenoki]

I totally agree. Which is why I'm basically fully committed to Tenno Academy, trying to make a home for those who don't really want to clan and would rather solo or PuG.

I'm a big time PuG and I don't like to chat on mic :P

i was being sarcastic xP

Edited May 27, 2013 by Ecotox

[Brasten]

i was being sarcastic xP

I on the other hand was not. The system is extremely biased against people who are not particularly social.

[HoLikWong]

Genre tagging is more like a generic label for devs to communicate what their game will more likely be identified, similar to how most people distinguish spectrum of colors by using the more simplified chunk of color noun such as 'red, blue, rather than using a more specific terms equating in shades and/or saturation such as 'crimson, turquoise' or even more quantifiable wavelength of color in nanometers. However, in a very much young field such as gaming, genre is not even as specified as they put names for color in the field of painting. This of course complicates how you communicate differences between gameplay yet discussing what is which genre is really not driving this topic anywhere.

Regardless, BlatantFool could've worded his statement about "Your gameplay experience is not more important (yours!>theirs) then a player in a large clan" better, as not to obfuscate 'small clanners' interpretation of it being pernicious to them to something along the line of "are equally important (=)". My interpretation of his statement might be the wrong one here but I would like to believe that we are here to be a little bit more diplomatic in how we discuss.

Back on topic, the two glaring mistakes about the current clan system are:

1. It does not have a hard cap on the number of clan members

2. The more attractive services it provide to the members are one time services (blueprints) rather than sustained benefit outside of duel arena (ALPHA! and might forever be)

 

3. Not much lorecraft elaborating Tenno clan activity to base the gameplay and functionality of the whole congregation in the first place (as of now, its just 'standard issue team/guild system with resource hungry, customizable frat house')

This mutual detachment design even goes both ways, with clan needing only tenno's material, akin to how the devs only value their customer to the amount of dollar spent; time spent grinding only builds up frustation which culminates to either spending or inane forum tantrum.

No member ceiling combined with point #2 enables the mentality of just creating a deathball of a clan and go with it, because it costs nothing and benefits everyone, its a party and the cake replicates. If everyone can be crammed into one dojo, no one is going to whine about not having the cake.

 

#3 is worth mentioning because lore can be used to both coherently materializes and communicate how the clan system is supposed to work. It could be a mini projection of 'what would Tenno do when there are more than 4 of them and no enemies to slay?' rather than the sad implementation of a system left open for anyone to interpret. The incoherent shaped, un-lore-ified, orokin catalyst/reactor ended up being called potatoes is somehow a testament on how the Devs are putting less emphasis on in-game dev-to-player communication through lore, resulting in a lot of misinterpretation and buttflustering left and right, whether its about pricing or time framing of the whole gameplay experience, e.g. why its worth $10 and projection of grinding time to meet objectives (inelegantly rushed by $$$ of course). It's no big deal on that specific potato case but its a sign of weakness in a development where the consumers basically loan you money so that you can build a game that they only get hooked by their own imagination from all the cool sounding depiction of space ninja.

Additionally, DE doesn't facilitate freelancing playstyle (even with glaring ninja-esque inspiration) and inter-clan relationship, with interaction to be designed by DE (You think I'm just going to give you guys ideas?).

Hence, It is only natural for individual Tennos to freeload to a larger clan with this system, as such configuration of least effort exists, even if there will be resource scaling, which is a solution I am strongly against, at least for room construction. As one user has already pointed out, the mentality of small clan shouldn't be 'punished' (what a word to use) by working with smaller pool of people is unreplicable to real life work mentality and catering to such spoiled attitude shouldn't be encouraged. Two person will build a house roughly twice as fast, accounting for maybe some slight effect of diminishing return, in comparison to one person working alone. Resources used (mortar, cement, bricks etc) should be about the same outside of maybe tool cost in which you now need two of them if you do the work simultaneously.

Bottom line is, the current clan system provides no bond by offering a one-time-be-done services. The clan needs Tenno's resources more than the Tenno themselves. There's no security for individuals, seen by some poster raising the 'they might kick me after' point and there's no benefit to grow the deathball after a certain limit because 'they be stealin our tech then be runnin with it!' mentality. The current Dojo drives itself to this corner and the Dev better act fast before they need to do the same maneuver as 'The Great Mod Plague' where they need to spoon us another Vandal series to pacify us.

Edited May 27, 2013 by HoLikWong

[TraumaHunter]

Did a few posts in this topic get pruned? 

[Blatantfool]

Not that I'm aware of. 

 

 Edit: Yeah, no. Everything is as is. There hasn't been any posts hidden since I last read through the thread. Lots to read through too.

[CrunkTanium]

Solution join big clan to get what you want then leave and enjoy your free lunch.

[Cinderain]

Join a clan, and never talk to/run with them... Lol

 

And then get kicked because of silly Clan requirements.

[Blatantfool]

And then get kicked because of silly Clan requirements.

 

 Which clans are doing that? That is remarkably lame, especially since even solo guys can contribute.

[Ced23Ric]

Blatantfool.....your name is more than adequate for yourself.....I can't say anything further because memnarch said it good enough for me.

 

Wow coming from a community moderator?

 

And so on.

 

Just a quick reminder: We are not DE employees, not on DE's payroll, all we get for the hours we put in is a thank you here and there, and whole lot of complaints about warnings, corrective measures and such. We are volunteers. We are entitled to our own opinions, and no matter what player (F2P / Paid), you do not pay our bills. You are paying customers, sure. All correct. You are not paying the Community Moderators. We are still players here, still have our own points of view and are free to express them.

 

The "green" does not make us exalted above mistakes, misconceptions, and it does not barr us from disagreeing or even taking controversial stances. We all post under the code of conduct, and if we breach it, we get reprimanded just the same - if not harsher. Nevertheless, having a differing opinion is not a breach of code. You may think whatever you like about any and all posters on this forum - ComMods are no exception.

 

ComMods are, in the same breath, allowed to speak their minds just like you are. So, please don't pull the "You are mod, how could you!" card.

 

On the topic's matter: We know. The other ComMods and I constantly push the topic of clan balance upstairs, and hope that there will be an answer or reaction to it. We attempt to represent the opinions of the community, even those we disagree with, and aggregate them for DE to peruse. While you may not see these things, you can rest assured, we don't miss them. ComMods patrol the forums more or less 24/7, using our various timezones to keep tabs on every topic that is bubbling up.

 

Cut us a little bit of slack. :)

[Cinderain]

 Which clans are doing that? That is remarkably lame, especially since even solo guys can contribute.

 

wut

 

It's a pretty typical requirement in Clans and Guilds to actually be active.

[Un1ted]

It's a good thing the current clan system is in ALPHA, in other words it's not even far enough along to have been called BETA. Many things will change significantly, maybe even a complete overhaul and re-release. In fact I would count on it.

 

It's going to change, and not just small tweaks here and there, massive huge changes will occur.

 

Practice some patience and have a little faith. It'll get better.

[TraumaHunter]

Was getting this topic and

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/52684-does-anyone-else-see-the-stupidity-of-a-1800-person-clan/

 

And this topic ^ confused.   Lots of similar posts in them.  Lots of the same people lol.

EDIT was just making sure my posts weren't being censored or that others weren't be - glad it is not the case.  Carry on - sorry about that lol.

Edited May 27, 2013 by TraumaHunter

[Blatantfool]

wut

 

It's a pretty typical requirement in Clans and Guilds to actually be active.

 

 Playing with the clan members all the time is not required to be an active contributor in Warframe. I don't see why that requirement would be necessary in this game.

[Thepillar]

Hello guys,

Tried to read all the discussion here about clan size etc. I think the dojo system should be scaled so it supports the smaller clans. The problem I see with the newdojo system is that it requires too many ressources for a small clan, everybody sees that. but the think the devs missed is that many players and groups of friends joined because its a 4 coop player game.

  When I started, we were a group of 4 friends, trying a new game, we loved it so got the founder thing to support it. Now I have my clan of 4, and we cant get the new features unfortunately, and it makes us dissapointed.

 

What I'm saying is that the Dev team marketed (sry is that a word in english?) Warframe as a 4 player coop game, but with the new dojo system, it encourages the bigger clans, thus changing the marketing message indirectly and causing problems with some of the community, for I'm sure a lot of clans are in my clan's situation.

  Warframe's main game experience is 4 player coop, so why asking the players to join big clans? I have nothing against big clans, lot of friends, lot of socialisation, etc. But the gaming experience of Warframe is one that encouraged small group of players, by the nature of 4 coop games.

 

Sry if ppl dont understand what I'm writing, english is my 3rd langage and I'm not used to write it......

[Brasten]

Hello guys,

Tried to read all the discussion here about clan size etc. I think the dojo system should be scaled so it supports the smaller clans. The problem I see with the newdojo system is that it requires too many ressources for a small clan, everybody sees that. but the think the devs missed is that many players and groups of friends joined because its a 4 coop player game.

  When I started, we were a group of 4 friends, trying a new game, we loved it so got the founder thing to support it. Now I have my clan of 4, and we cant get the new features unfortunately, and it makes us dissapointed.

 

What I'm saying is that the Dev team marketed (sry is that a word in english?) Warframe as a 4 player coop game, but with the new dojo system, it encourages the bigger clans, thus changing the marketing message indirectly and causing problems with some of the community, for I'm sure a lot of clans are in my clan's situation.

  Warframe's main game experience is 4 player coop, so why asking the players to join big clans? I have nothing against big clans, lot of friends, lot of socialisation, etc. But the gaming experience of Warframe is one that encouraged small group of players, by the nature of 4 coop games.

 

Sry if ppl dont understand what I'm writing, english is my 3rd langage and I'm not used to write it......

That was perfect. Easy to understand. :D

[Cinderain]

 Playing with the clan members all the time is not required to be an active contributor in Warframe. I don't see why that requirement would be necessary in this game.

 

It doesn't matter what game it is, that's what Clans and Guilds do.

 

Level requirements, skill requirements, talking requirements, personality requirements, monetary requirements, etc. That's just the clan/guild world of online games.

 

After dealing with the variety of nonsense that Clans and Guilds have to offer for almost a decade, I'm not putting up with that anymore.

Edited May 27, 2013 by FatalX7

[Blatantfool]

It doesn't matter what game it is, that's what Clans and Guilds do.

 

Level requirements, skill requirements, talking requirements, personality requirements, monetary requirements, etc. That's just the clan/guild world of online games.

 

 Yeah, that is fine. I'm not saying Guilds don't do stuff like that in other games. I'm saying there isn't much rhyme or reasons to it in Warframe. If they are so worried about finishing their Dojo they wont be worried about how people get materials so long as they lend a hand whenever they have a moment to dump some access minerals.

 

  I'm IN one of the big clans. When you are the size of Warbros you get a bit of everything. Some guys roll solo 90% of the time. Some dudes play exclusively with the clan. It is all fine.

 

 Unless I'm mistaken Zackai is from Outlaw Star, which has reached a pretty respectable size too. I'd imagine he'd tell you something pretty similar.

[Cinderain]

Clans and Guilds that are too 'LOLSWAGYOLO420' are another reason why I avoid them.

[Hazzerone]

Not broken if when they leave it takes back their invested resources

Still a broken idea if material requirements scaled with number of members.

 

It would still open up the same exploit: have people leave, then join back once stuff starts building.

 

In this scenario, the people that stay in the clan are the ones with the most resources, and therefore the ones that will contribute the most.

 

The problem is that it's wrong to suggest that every player can offer the same number of resources. Some players have an absolutely massive stockpile of resources whilst newer players will have few.

 

Loopholes such as what I have already talked about will always exist as long as you scale resources required to numbers of members in the clan.

 

Scaling materials is not the way to go. At all.

[Nod_Off]

 Which clans are doing that? That is remarkably lame, especially since even solo guys can contribute.

I have not heard of that. 

[Maddoc]

Not the Dev's fault you wont play with a lot of people in a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game.

 

I would love to play with a lot of people but the game I'm playing only lets me play with three.

 

What game are you playing?

[Cinderain]

I would love to play with a lot of people but the game I'm playing only lets me play with three.

 

What game are you playing?

 

The same three people? That sounds like a boring game.

[Amistyrja]

So its my clan's fault that we wish to stay as a small group of players whom we can trust to do alerts for each other and can actually talk to? Fair enough I guess. Gonna wait this out because I'm sure DE is smart enough to know that something is very wrong with the way things currently are.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Blatantfool, on 27 May 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

It is unreasonable to ask DE to hold the hand of smaller clans. By making it easier for you they devalue the work of thousands of players who are in larger clans.

Your gameplay experience is not more important then a player in a large clan. If you choose to stick to a small group or not grow into a larger group that is fine, but you better not expect to be able to power through content like a clan who did decide to grow.

This isn't even a new concept. Guilds/Clans are like this in nearly every game with very few exceptions.

Hmm. This is an interesting argument, because it implies that the work of thousands of players in larger clans is not already devalued by the current system.

Let's assume that every member of those clans contributed an equal amount of resources to their clan's dojo. Each one needs to contribute less, proportionately, compared to someone in a smaller clan. What this means is that the value of each individual member's work in a smaller clan is a bigger piece of the pie - ie the work of members in smaller clans is already more valuable than the work of members in larger clans.

If we assume they didn't all contribute equally, you've got some people doing the work and some freeloading. Again, devaluing the work of those thousands of players.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Kerrus]

MMO :- MASSIVE MULTILAYER ONLINE 

It doesnt say MOP :- MASSIVE OFFLINE PLAY

 

If you dont wana get socialize , play and group like rest of us, i say quit MMOs, start playing single player games :)

 

 

If you dont want friends, nor clan, then YOU DONT DESERVE TO GET THOSE GUNS. SIMPLE AS THAT , GOT IT ? YOU DONT DESERVE THEM.....

 

Or you can just wait for next updates and BUY THEM WITH CASH !!!!!

 

 

"I simply want access to all the weapons"  :- So the fact is that, you want everything for free and not willing to act as group ?

That's not remotely what any of them said. Kindly go F*** yourself.