Zephyr Qol Rework For Parkour 2.0

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

First of all I must say that Zephyr is really fun to play with Parkour 2.0 (not that she wasn't before, but now it's even more fun), however her Tail Wind now is a bit expensive and lacks some distinction from Bullet Jump. Coupled with a bunch of old problems she needs some changes so I'm going to suggest a bunch of ability tweaks (no major changes or ability replacements, as I think it's not necessary yet)

 

Note: Suggestions marked with (X) sign are especially important for Zephyr's Quality of Life

 

Tail Wind

- (X) First of all Tail Wind need to redirect all your current momentum in the direction of Tail Wind cast. It's a very important change, because currently any opposite or sideways momentum would drag you behind or will set you off course while doing Tail Wind. But it's also very important to be able to use momentum to your advantage, like you can extend your Tail Wind by bullet jumping or sliding right before you cast it and this mechanic should stay because it gives much more control over Tail Wind distance.

 

The original problem of momentum not canceling is perfectly described and showed in the following topic: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/527905-zephyrs-tail-wind-does-not-override-bullet-jump-momentum/

 

- (X) Another very important change is to remove Tail Wind jump height (fly distance) scaling with ability rank and instead have the current max rank jump height at unranked level (similar to how Rhino's Roar duration is now). The reason is unranked Tail Wind barely beats the height of double jump, and when you compare it to regular Bullet Jump, it looks like a joke at unranked.

 

- (X) Tail Wind cast now cancels previous Tail Wind and has no cooldown/recast delay, to make chaining more fluid and make Zephyr's flying capabilities better. Additionally it might be a good idea to make it cancel some other actions as well, like knockdown, Dive Bomb landing and other actions that lock you down for a moment.

 

- Tail Wind now has 100% chance to Slash and Knockdown (possibly even ragdoll like Rhino's Charge) every enemy you hit flying by.

 

- Tail Wind now gives a small speed buff (20%) for 8 seconds (to give more incentive to use Tail Wind instead of Bullet Jump)

 

- (X) Tail Wind now costs 10 energy if you didn't hit any enemies, and uses 3 energy for each enemy you hit, up to a maximum of 25 energy used total. Enemies hit after reaching the energy limit are hit with no extra energy use.

   Alternative - Apply consecutive cast mechanic discussed in Devstream #60: Casting Tail Wind makes the next Tail Wind casts free (or like 5 energy) until you touch the ground

 

- (X) Tail Wind fully recharges your Aim Glide meter

 

- Possibly make Tail Wind renew you double jump and maybe even bullet jump, for even better air control.

 

Dive Bomb

- (X) Now is able to cast a variation while on the ground. Visually Zephyr summons a gust of cutting winds blowing away enemies around her. Effects are similar to Dive Bomb with a few changes:

   - Damage is fixed to 300 (Slash type)

   - Range is increased to 12 meters

   - 100% Slash proc

   - Ragdoll all affected enemies away from Zephyr

 

- Regular Dive Bomb still activates when in mid-air and has the following changes:

   - (X) Upon landing cancels all your momentum.

 

   - Might need to slow down (or cancel) your momentum on cast (as you Dive Bomb down). Although I'm not completely sure about this change since it might be less intuitive to hit enemies from high above this way.

 

  - Slightly reduce landing animation lock

 

   - Range increases by 0.5 meters for each additional meter of height activation. (e.g. activating at 3 meters(original height) = 7 meters range, activating at 10 meters = 7 + 10/2 = 12 meters range, activating at 15 meters = 7 + 15/2 = 14,5 meters range.)

 

   - Direct hit smashes enemy to pieces, instantly killing him (doesn't work on Bosses) Need to have at least 5 meters height to work.

 

   - Additional height adds more effects to Dive Bomb:

        - 6 meters: Reduces accuracy of all affected enemies for 10 seconds

        - 9 meters: Slows down all affected enemies for 5 seconds (basically extends their knockdown time)

        - 15 meters: Upon landing Dive Bomb creates a turbulent area which deflects all incoming projectiles for 10 seconds (similar to Turbulence effect) (might need to be switched with the current Dive Bomb augment for balance)

 

   - Increase Dive Bomb damage based on time you've spent in the air (idea by Buzkyl). I'd say something like 100 damage (affected by Strength) for each second you spend in the air before doing Dive Bomb. Touching the ground resets the timer.

 

- Might need to adjust the cost of Dive Bomb (both aerial and ground version) to 35 since Tail Wind is now much cheaper and you can do Dive Bomb after a regular Bullet Jump as well (compared how previously you had to cast Tail Wind to Dive Bomb). Depending on cost assigned, the damage of both versions might need to be tweaked to 500 and 400 damage for ground and aerial versions respectively (aerial version would still get a bonus for extra height)

 

Turbulence

Even though it's not perfect against Grineer and Bombards I think it's in a pretty good shape as it is, but still a few suggestions:

 

- (X) Turbulence disables Bombard rocket's targeting system when it touches the Turbulence wind shield. Rocket still flies forward and explodes, but it's no longer seeking targets.

 

- Puts out flames (Fire proc) for allies that come into range of Turbulence

 

Tornado

- (X) Now traps enemies for 10 seconds (affected by duration) before they get a chance to escape (total duration is still 20 seconds)

 

- (X) Shooting Tornado deals weapon's damage to every enemy trapped in Tornado (damage is equally spread between all enemies) Additionally enemy bullets get sucked into Tornado and deal damage as well.

 

- (X) When spawning, tornadoes prioritise Heavy units and enemies that are currently shooting at you, as well as groups of enemies. Tornadoes spawn at least 5 meters away from each other (no more 3 tornadoes in one place)

 

- Range now affects the width of tornado.

 

 

Passive tweaks

Along with lower gravity which she already has I think she needs a few minor additions:

- (X) Zephyr's Aim Glide is 3x times longer with a much slower descending

- (X) Zephyr can control Aim Glide with directional buttons (strafing or going faster/slower)

- Zephyr can triple jump

 

 

The main aim of this rework is to make Zephyr more specialized in mobility and aerial movement, since everyone has a Bullet Jump which is similar to Tail Wind and also make Tail Wind much more significant than Bullet Jump for Zephyr herself. The combination of Tail Wind and Aim Glide upgrades should make Zephyr pretty much close to flying, since you can chain Tail Wind and Glide to keep you in the air for as much as you want until your energy runs out. Additionally the changes to Tornado and Dive Bomb should make her more viable as teammate with slightly more stable CC and Tornado not preventing teammates from shooting enemies.

 

 

Also I feel the need to address the Flying ability many people suggest and there are few reasons why I'm against it:

1) Dedicated Flying ability would most likely slow down Zephyr's gameplay a lot. Especially if we are going to replace Tail Wind with it (and I don't see the reason for Zephyr to have two abilities that do basically the same thing if we keep Tail Wind and Flying) The way I see Flying working is similar to Archwing so it would be like a hovering and slowly flying through the air and that would not be the same Zephyr we like and got used to.

 

2) Is actually more important for game balance and takes into account a certain race - Infested. They literally have nothing to counter the flying. So that would leave 2 options, either make Infested even more long ranged, which will hurt all other frames, or make Zephyr's flying very short lived which basically kills all purpose of dedicated flying ability.

With the proposed Tail Wind + Aim Glide type of flying you would at least have to actively keeping yourself airborne and will have to move from one spot to another and it would take some skill/practice to use rather than just hanging in one spot and shooting Infested for hours.

 

 

Please provide your feedback!

Edited October 5, 2015 by (PS4)Gaelic-_-Flame

[RadioLarity]

IMO some things are really out of place like the Slash damage and procs. What does her abilities have in common with slashes?
It should be Impact/Blast based nothing else.
Enemies accuracy reduced for 10 seconds from the Dive Bomb ability. Again, why?
And that Turbulent area sounds just really op (and out of place as well) You could just spam it all around (no 15 meters isn't much, especially in Warframe in which meters are really smaller than in real life).

The changes about Tail Wind energy cost are really unnecesary.
And noone would want to use it on enemies anymore (like someone did it in the first place).
You'd just want to trigger Tornado instead.

TBH Zephyr is in perfect place the way she is now. She's one of my favourite frames and if anything should be changed to her should be Dive Bomb to have fixed range instead of scaled with range, but that would be OP.

If you're proficient with Zephyr you know hot to chain her Tail Wind with Parkour 2.0.

 

About the momentum- all of it should be fixed in the first place, not just the Tail Wind.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

IMO some things are really out of place like the Slash damage and procs. What does her abilities have in common with slashes?

It should be Impact/Blast based nothing else.

Because Ninjas+Wind = Cutting wind blades. Not to mention that she already has Slash damage on her dash type Tail Wind, so I just went from that.

 

Enemies accuracy reduced for 10 seconds from the Dive Bomb ability. Again, why?

Imagine something incredibly heavy falling right beside you with a massive impact, knocking you down. Wouldn't you feel dizzy for a few moments after you get up?

 

The changes about Tail Wind energy cost are really unnecesary.

And noone would want to use it on enemies anymore (like someone did it in the first place).

You'd just want to trigger Tornado instead.

If you're proficient with Zephyr you know hot to chain her Tail Wind with Parkour 2.0.

Why? If it costs less in general, and costs the same as it is now if you hit 5+ enemies, how would nobody would want to use it anymore? Not that it makes it cost more than it is now. The problem with Tail Wind now is it's barely worth to spend 25 energy for mobility purposes, when you could have done the same a bit slower saving your energy. Of course it's still useful for chaining, but it's barely worth it at it's current cost.

 

 

About making sense, nothing in Warframe makes sense in terms of powers when you look at it too seriously. A dude stomping the ground to freeze enemies in air? Surely that makes a lot more sense than creating a turbulent area from a huge impact. Although I agree that it might be a bit OP, so it should be limited to one area at a time, and a fixed range of 10 meters (not affected by range) Also it might be an augment too

Edited September 14, 2015 by (PS4)Gaelic-_-Flame

[(PSN)abb12355]

Heavy impact should be incorporated into divebomb too. Also, 70+ elite lancers still pierce the shield 80% of the time.

[CantIHaveAShow]

I'm all for a much longer aim glide on her.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Heavy impact should be incorporated into divebomb too. Also, 70+ elite lancers still pierce the shield 80% of the time.

Thats because its those dam hitscan weapons, bloody op i tell you

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Your changes are pretty good, though i still want an ability that allows Zephir to actually fly, move around like we do on (Sh)Archwing. Zephir is supposed to rule open spaces and rain death from above yet she cant do much of dad, if anything i can do the same thing with Vauban just using my catapult (or however that skill is called) and Aim Glide. Zephir shouldt be limited by gravity.

She should be a Glorious bird not a chicken with higher than average jump, thats Ember's job.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Heavy impact should be incorporated into divebomb too. Also, 70+ elite lancers still pierce the shield 80% of the time.

Isn't Heavy Impact just adds some extra damage? So just an increase in damage and possibly increase the damage scaling with height would be enough. Or am I forgetting something about Heavy Impact?

Your changes are pretty good, though i still want an ability that allows Zephir to actually fly, move around like we do on (Sh)Archwing. Zephir is supposed to rule open spaces and rain death from above yet she cant do much of dad, if anything i can do the same thing with Vauban just using my catapult (or however that skill is called) and Aim Glide. Zephir shouldt be limited by gravity.

She should be a Glorious bird not a chicken with higher than average jump, thats Ember's job.

Lol, poor Ember... :(

 

But if serious while I kinda support the idea of Zephyr to be able to hang in the air for long times, I also wouldn't want Zephyr to turn into Archwing as I really don't like how Archwing handles. It feels pretty slow and slugish to me and kinda goes against Zephyrs mobility aspect.

 

Maybe removing Tail Wind cooldown (as you can't cast it in a very quick succession at the moment) and actually making Tail Wind to be able to cancel your previous Tail Wind to immediately go in a new direction would help a bit. Paired with prolonged aim gliding and glide control it might get Zephyr pretty close to flying. Another thing is maybe allow Tail Wind to reset double jump and possibly even bullet jump, for unlimited chaining capabilities.

 

I'll add some of it to the topic, since the Tail Wind cooldown bothered me for a long time now, but I forgot about it when I was writing the topic.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Isn't Heavy Impact just adds some extra damage? So just an increase in damage and possibly increase the damage scaling with height would be enough. Or am I forgetting something about Heavy Impact?

Lol, poor Ember... :(

 

But if serious while I kinda support the idea of Zephyr to be able to hang in the air for long times, I also wouldn't want Zephyr to turn into Archwing as I really don't like how Archwing handles. It feels pretty slow and slugish to me and kinda goes against Zephyrs mobility aspect.

 

Maybe removing Tail Wind cooldown (as you can't cast it in a very quick succession at the moment) and actually making Tail Wind to be able to cancel your previous Tail Wind to immediately go in a new direction would help a bit. Paired with prolonged aim gliding and glide control it might get Zephyr pretty close to flying. Another thing is maybe allow Tail Wind to reset double jump and possibly even bullet jump, for unlimited chaining capabilities.

 

I'll add some of it to the topic, since the Tail Wind cooldown bothered me for a long time now, but I forgot about it when I was writing the topic.

Not poor Ember, its advious Ember is the fire chicken warframe, the "hair", those epic thighs and the feet shes clearly a chicken. And i love her for that.

 

No CD Tailwind and maybe make it go in the direction your aiming sounds good. ANd yeah Archwing is kinda sluggish but you get the idea i wish Zephir could actually fly.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

#ZephyrneedsWings

Why would you optimice tailwind when parcour 2.0 litteraly brought talwind to any frame?...

It's time to return to the original concept. Where zephyr was meant to fly.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

#ZephyrneedsWings

Why would you optimice tailwind when parcour 2.0 litteraly brought talwind to any frame?...

It's time to return to the original concept. Where zephyr was meant to fly.

The problem with flying is I really don't see an option to make dedicated flying ability good. It might be like archwing, but archwing feel is pretty slugish, and it's only playable at big open spaces. In tight warframe tilesets it would be unusable a lot of times.

 

Also with these Tail Wind and Glide changes you'll be able to fly anyways. I can clearly imagine Zephyr go up, then glide for several seconds to shoot enemies, then Tail Wind to different spot and glide-shoot again. And you can do it for as long as you want (or until your energy runs out). We just need to make Zephyr's Glide to stand out a bit (more glide time, more glide control, and less descending while gliding) and Tail Wind to cost less when you use it as mobility and remove the cooldown for more fluid uses.

 

In my opinion this would be much more appropriate change. Zephyr would still get insane mobility, would be able to fly and shoot enemies from the skies. And it won't be only usable in huge open spaces like dedicated flying would, since you can still use Tail Wind like we are using it now.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

The problem with flying is I really don't see an option to make dedicated flying ability good. It might be like archwing, but archwing feel is pretty slugish, and it's only playable at big open spaces. In tight warframe tilesets it would be unusable a lot of times.

Also with these Tail Wind and Glide changes you'll be able to fly anyways. I can clearly imagine Zephyr go up, then glide for several seconds to shoot enemies, then Tail Wind to different spot and glide-shoot again. And you can do it for as long as you want (or until your energy runs out). We just need to make Zephyr's Glide to stand out a bit (more glide time, more glide control, and less descending while gliding) and Tail Wind to cost less when you use it as mobility and remove the cooldown for more fluid uses.

In my opinion this would be much more appropriate change. Zephyr would still get insane mobility, would be able to fly and shoot enemies from the skies. And it won't be only usable in huge open spaces like dedicated flying would, since you can still use Tail Wind like we are using it now.

Wanna stop someone in his path? Set obstacles. A channeled flying mode (yeah why not like archwing) plus charge mobility using divebomb (hit ground for wave, charge trough enemys for a different effect) would give her INSANE mobility.

+1 to any buff tho. She definitly needs it. Especially on her tornados. Thats the ability that bothers me the most. Switching status is nice but why do they have to consume bullets shot at them? Catch em and channel them upwards, for both friend and fiend, hitting enemys caught in there.

Edited September 15, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

It's... it's... it's...

 

It's beautiful...

 

Finally someone proposing Zephyr changes who actually knows how to use Zephyr! I'm just about ready to vomit up my internal organs after all the kiddies screaming about how garbage Zephyr is after parkour 2.0. I still think other frames need reworking far more than Zephyr does, seeing as she's already quite excellent once you learn how to use her properly, though. It's a fallacy to say that her current mobility abilities have no use, but these changes are still fantastic and should definitely happen after, and only after, the Peacemaker section of Mesa's design document has been put through a paper shredder and repeatedly defecated on.

Edited September 16, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

It's... it's... it's...

 

It's beautiful...

 

Finally someone proposing Zephyr changes who actually knows how to use Zephyr! I'm just about ready to vomit up my internal organs after all the kiddies screaming about how garbage Zephyr is after parkour 2.0. I still think other frames need reworking far more than Zephyr does, seeing as she's already quite excellent once you learn how to use her properly, though. It's a fallacy to say that her current mobility abilities have no use, but these changes are still fantastic and should definitely happen after, and only after, the Peacemaker section of Mesa's design document has been put through a paper shredder and repeatedly defecated on.

Thanks!

 

I'm kinda split about her current state. She's really fun to play with Parkour 2.0, however I find it harder to justify Tail Wind use unless I need to travel really far or change direction mid-air. She really needs some benefit in using Tail Wind instead of Bullet Jump when it's an option to use one or another. Coupled with a bunch of old problems, like that momentum thing, unreliable Tornado and lack of Dive Bomb use, I think it's about time to look at Zephyr and tweak her abilities

[Defendor]

It's a good rework. She's already a good frame, but Divebomb badly needs some love and giving Tailwind extra uses for tight quarters would be great for her overall usefulness. However, I also think several other frames need a rework more than Zephyr does.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

I really hope the new consecutive use mechanic will be applied to Tail Wind!

[Thumper3]

Heavy impact should be incorporated into divebomb too.

It really should, barely even works on any other frame in most situations. It's way to situational so it's usually not worth the points on most builds.

I love Zephyr, don't play her enough.

[Yefrign]

 Also, 70+ elite lancers still pierce the shield 80% of the time.

 

which is so friggn annoying >.>

Edited September 18, 2015 by Fartbake

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I really hope the new consecutive use mechanic will be applied to Tail Wind!

 

Here, take all of my yes.

[Gruzelda]

Yes please, I support this rework.

[EchoesOfRain]

Sooo, if nobody noticed, the Wukong frame, coming after Atlas, has a flying mode......I don't get it, Zephyr needs this and instead they give it to a different frame...

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Sooo, if nobody noticed, the Wukong frame, coming after Atlas, has a flying mode......I don't get it, Zephyr needs this and instead they give it to a different frame...

 

Zephyr's flight and Wukong's flight are pretty much as different as they could possibly be while still being flight. They aim to accomplish entirely different things. Zephyr's flight (or "airborne capability", since it's not technically flight) is 100% focused on horizontal mobility. Wukong's flight is only flight for thematic reasons, its primary function being survivability. Cloudwalking appears to actually decrease Wukong's speed. Due to the monumental vertical mobility that parkour 2.0 granted to every frame, Cloudwalk's low-speed flight seems almost entirely useless.

Edited September 19, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Sooo, if nobody noticed, the Wukong frame, coming after Atlas, has a flying mode......I don't get it, Zephyr needs this and instead they give it to a different frame...

Like 4G3NT_0R4NG3 already said Wukong's flight is too slow to even take advantage of as flight ability. Wukong would probably need 10 or more seconds to reach the place Zephyr can reach with one Tail Wind or even simple Bullet Jump.

 

Zephyr doesn't need a flight ability because she already can almost fly and with some Tail Wind and Aim Glide improvements she would be able to do so even better without hurting her mobility.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Update: Added consecutive cast suggestion to Tail Wind and a few minor suggestions for Turbulence.

[ZizWing]

I agree to this but I still think tail wind needs some small adjustments. The way it is right now it's purely a movement ability, which is fine, but you don't have a lot of time in between tail wind casts to actually do something in the air... sure you can take down 1 enemy at a low level but actually taking your time and aiming just wont happen before hitting the ground. Like I suggested in my own topic (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/531678-zephyr-a-more-active-ability-approach-for-tail-wind/) I'd like to suggest making the ability a toggle like equinox his/her first ability and then letting the jumping do the current tail wind animations while doing nothing with the ability active will let you hover or at least slow your falling to a point where you can aim and shoot. combined with the recast delay removal this would be a lot better in my opinion.