Jinryusai Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Good guess, but they also want to play this game without being left to the mercy of gung-ho Mirages. Would also like to enjoy the game while things I enjoy are not at the mercy of S#&$ty rigs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisbandisawful Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 while we're at it, ... except that's not what i said yeah apparently we're a little too teary over mesa to post like grownups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 ... except that's not what i said yeah apparently we're a little too teary over mesa to post like grownups Where are them Mirage tears :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixpellia Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 ... except that's not what i said yeah apparently we're a little too teary over mesa to post like grownups ...except it's the same thing you think abilities that preclude manual aiming are boring and rob gameplay by the same reasoning anything that makes aiming easier robs gameplay yeah apparently we're a little to dismissive to think like grownups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 What happened to Mag?! I am so confused. I was just playing her and didn't see any difference. EDIT: Oh good grief, this isn't as big of a nerf as you guys are claiming. With Bullet Jump, it's easily negatable, just like Super Jump and Radial Jav./Blind with Excal. ????????????????????????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 ????????????????????????????????????????? Mag "nerf" isn't really the 'frame killer everyone is making it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnimorph Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) yeah these powers are also pretty awful get rid of 'em 'the large damage aoe' is a boring ult and when the powers are as spammable as they are in warframe it just robs gameplay value from the players Totally disagree with this. Don't try to make Warframe like every other boring fricken' game with namby-pamby "abilities". DE have to strike a balance, that's all: a balance between big, bold "superpowers", and gameplay "purity". Too much of one and you have over-used ults, too much of the other and you have ... Chess. For the most part, for most frames, the balance is right, they just have to keep feeling for the sweet spot. Getting rid of "large damage AoEs" altogether would be a disaster for the game though. "Boring" is in the eye of the beholder - "gameplay" a bit less so, but still somewhat. Another way of saying this: there's a balance to be struck between "Warframe as class" and "Warframe as character". The former requires thinking about things like balance, gameplay, etc., the latter requires something more like an indefinable cool factor and the Warframe feeling like a unified "character", all of a piece. Neither factor should overwhelm the other. Edited October 2, 2015 by Omnimorph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Mag "nerf" isn't really the 'frame killer everyone is making it out to be. Bulletjump? How it help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaumatos Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 while we're at it, all the mobility altering abilities are boring too. by making enemies easy targets they just rob gameplay value from the players let's get rid of bastille and vortex and molecular prime and chaos and prism and radial blind and tornado and rhino stomp and snowglobe and cataclysm and undertow and tentacle swarm etc Not this guy here too. That's some straw man argument you've got there... I'm gonna start calling you Salty Strawman. You're going to make DE_Danielle come in here and lock these threads, SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Bulletjump? How it help? Jump up, use Pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbabenali Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So Mag has effectively now one skill for one fraction in the game. <<insert slow clap gif of choice>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Jump up, use Pull. So did mats ever go through walls behind doors before other nerf of pull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So did mats ever go through walls behind doors before other nerf of pull? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 ...except it's the same thing you think abilities that preclude manual aiming are boring and rob gameplay by the same reasoning anything that makes aiming easier robs gameplay yeah apparently we're a little to dismissive to think like grownups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixpellia Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 thinking hard. brain hurt again, you think abilities that preclude manual aiming are boring and rob gameplay by the same reasoning anything that makes aiming easier robs gameplay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 What? Well, Bjump doesn't help grab mats through doors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingFoxel Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So, it's been... I'll say 30 minutes since the release of 17.5 and oh lord... The 3M of Warframe just got nerfed even more. Mesa: Peacemaker now has a radial circle where enemies have to be inside in order for her to shoot... Mirage: Clones reduced from 4 clones to 2 clones, doubling the damage each clone does... But you lose the 5x projectile, and now only have 3x projectile. Mag: Well... uh. She's kinda been dead since the GP nerf. Now she can't pull from barriers, etc. DE essentially killed Mag and is now kicking a dead corpse... Don't worry though guys. It's only a matter of time until Loki's invisibility don't actually turn him invisible and Frost snowglobe is literally a glass snowglobe you get for Christmas... Can we not? It's kinda stupid how DE wants to "create more diversity" and yet, all they're doing is continuing to nerf Warframes until they dont have the same play value as they use to, essentially creating more Tiers of Warframe, until people only use the best frames and leave the bad ones forever. Personally, I feel we should continue to buff and tweak, if not overhaul abilities of Warframes. Many of the abilities are lacklustered, for example, Ballistic Battery. Does anyone actually use Mesa for it? I certainly don't. Most of the time, I don't even remember it exist. TL;DR: Continuous nerf of Warframe ability hurts the diversity in gameplay. Rather than balancing it, players are forced into a hierarchy of frames and abilities. Also, it degrades from player experience. Do you agree or disagree? Comment below. THIS 100% this. mag is dead mesa and excal have been kicked in the nutz and soon DE: is comming for frost some things are cheap but they are going overboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaumatos Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) again, Seriously, SS, you're going to get these threads locked. I don't expect you to know what a straw man argument is, that's kinda the point of the joke. Your second quote is the reason I've dubbed you SS. Edited October 2, 2015 by Thaumatos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-cS-dalonico Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Hold up, did you even play Mirage? Did you read the original post? They didn't transfer the damage to make up for 2x up to 4x projectiles missing, and builds relying on that are dead. And what are these "certain means"? what do you mean? the remaining doubles will shoot half projectiles with double dmg... ignoring the area of effect loss, the dmg is the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisbandisawful Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Totally disagree with this. Don't try to make Warframe like every other boring fricken' game with namby-pamby "abilities". DE have to strike a balance, that's all: a balance between big, bold "superpowers", and gameplay "purity". Too much of one and you have over-used ults, too much of the other and you have ... Chess. For the most part, for most frames, the balance is right, they just have to keep feeling for the sweet spot. Getting rid of "large damage AoEs" altogether would be a disaster for the game though. "Boring" is in the eye of the beholder - "gameplay" a bit less so, but still somewhat. Another way of saying this: there's a balance to be struck between "Warframe as class" and "Warframe as character". The former requires thinking about things like balance, gameplay, etc., the latter requires something more like an indefinable cool factor and the Warframe feeling like a unified "character", all of a piece. Neither factor should overwhelm the other. yeah i don't actually want all aoe ults removed, sorry. but currently what we have is a lot of powers that can be cast repeatedly in a short period of time, and in the case of some powers, i feel they're really not making the game entertaining. some, like mesa's ult, are or were capable of turning the game into cruise control which is terrible for pace, interest and burnout. while warframe's progression encourages us to blitz through missions as quickly and easily as we can, it's also encouraging us to max our powers to the point where the game's on that cruise control mode i agree large damage aoes aren't troublesome per se, but i feel they're a part of a problem. i'd like to see warframe at a point where after we've min-maxed and taken our powers to the limit, the game's still entertaining. mesa's ult didn't provide that entertainment and some other powers don't either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSING Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Well, Bjump doesn't help grab mats through doors... THIS 100% this. mag is dead mesa and excal have been kicked in the nutz and soon DE: is comming for frost some things are cheap but they are going overboard. Can we all just...calm down here? The mesa nerf was needed, it had no interaction to it whatsoever and no one was having any fun with it, even the people using it because they were staring at the screen doing nothing at all. If you think mag is dead, with all due respect you have no idea how to play her. Pulls still works well against enemies, shield polarize is killer against half the factions and can still be a lifesaver against the other two, crush is decent and I'll give you that bullet attractir needs some love but is she dead? Hell no. She ain't a farming tool, and if you thought that pulling materials through wall is reasonable please now. Even though our powers defy belief that's just a bit too ridiculous; how does magnetism make objects phase through walls? Go open the door and pick it up yourself. Some people seem to just have knee jerk reaction to nerf without checking first to see if it was reasonable or not. Others just hate on things to hate on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnimorph Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 yeah i don't actually want all aoe ults removed, sorry. but currently what we have is a lot of powers that can be cast repeatedly in a short period of time, and in the case of some powers, i feel they're really not making the game entertaining. some, like mesa's ult, are or were capable of turning the game into cruise control which is terrible for pace, interest and burnout. while warframe's progression encourages us to blitz through missions as quickly and easily as we can, it's also encouraging us to max our powers to the point where the game's on that cruise control mode i agree large damage aoes aren't troublesome per se, but i feel they're a part of a problem. i'd like to see warframe at a point where after we've min-maxed and taken our powers to the limit, the game's still entertaining. mesa's ult didn't provide that entertainment and some other powers don't either I think for this type of qualm (and lots of people share it) the obvious reply is: the game isn't finished yet. We have no idea what DE have up their sleeve for the "proper" endgame for Warframe. It's certainly not the scaling Void stuff - that's obviously always been a placeholder. But even with that, beyond a certain point in the scaling content, you can't say that Warframes are OP any more, at least not individually (maybe still in synergy - but that's a good thing). It maybe (and likely is) the case that what DE have in mind for endgame will challenge maxed-out builds (both weapons and warframes) now. This is due to an assymetry in the way they have to build the game - obviously the combat system has to be in place as a whole, so logically, if the endgame proper isn't in the game yet, then the level of power we have (mods, frames, weapons) must be built with "headroom" for that endgame in mind. This is why all the cries of "power creep" are misunderstanding what's going on. Once the game is finished, if DE then keep introducing more powerful stuff only, then there might be a case to call "power creep". But at the moment? No, the term is actually meaningless in this context, because we don't have the full game before us. We have a combat system built for an endgame that doesn't exist yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Well, Bjump doesn't help grab mats through doors... No, no it doesnt. You know what does get the resources on the other wide of a door? You do. Walk through the door. Mag isn't dead, is you believe that, than you've never played her. If she was deqd, I wouldn't be able to take her into high rank Infested missions and get hundreds of kills with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charoy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The changes add some new flavour to all those frames. no, they limit them even more Yes, Mag is hurting. But that's okay. no its not And the Mirage "nerf" was a visual one if I read the patch notes correctly. no, it seems you dont know that x4projectiles>x2, even if the damage is the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Eh? Not the one that says she's dead. A dead Warframe uses no powers/guns because well... It's dead :) No, no it doesnt. You know what does get the resources on the other wide of a door? You do. Walk through the door. You mean that door on the far side of the room beyond the flying bullets? Walk through all of that? Yeah, you do that :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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