I Love It When ...

[Davoodoo]

I love it when i can watch another video by jim @(*()$ sterling son and it is again relevant to current situation in warframe.

 

 

I love how it puts to perspective things i said years ago.

 

So maybe someone would like to discuss prime grind, quests, clantech and generally additional timers, or maybe keys for everything, or maybe idk "dont farm it, farm plat instead".

 

Guess from what "its f2p so it can get away with it" came from.

 

 

Also mods, since when buisness practice criticism is off topic??

Edited October 7, 2015 by Davoodoo

[(PSN)AngelShur]

You really do this video? ha!

[Davoodoo]

You really do this video? ha!

Think its not relevant??

[Shifted]

Warframe is F2P, games mentioned are not.

 

And, as always, "Don't like it? Don't buy it."

Publishers really do not give a single F*** about what you think. They want your money.

Money talks. 'Whining' doesn't. Regardless of how much I agree with what you say.

 

Back to Warframe though, Mesa bullS#&$ was probably the worst it ever got.

There was a huge backlash, and they toned it down. Same with Hydroid. Same will happen with Atlas too I assume, just give it time.

[Davoodoo]

Warframe is F2P, games mentioned are not.

 

And, as always, "Don't like it? Don't buy it."

Publishers really do not give a single F*** about what you think. They want your money.

Money talks. 'Whining' doesn't. Regardless of how much I agree with what you say.

 

Back to Warframe though, Mesa bullS#&$ was probably the worst it ever got.

There was a huge backlash, and they toned it down. Same with Hydroid. Same will happen with Atlas too I assume, just give it time.

Video doesnt mention specific games, video mentions anti consumer buisness decisions and community apathy which allows it with some examples of aaa development.

 

And lets see what community outcry achieved.

-For example me3 ending got changed, for free, nope no fucks given here.

-Steam pulled paid mods because of outcry, nope no fucks given here.

-Deus ex preorder campaign got pulled back, nope no fucks given here.

 

What did outcry do in warframe so far

-Keys for vay hek got pulled

-Void defense became endless

-Void trader got his stuff release slowed down

 

So yeah, you can actually achieve something if you actually complain about stuff you dont like.

 

You can argue nerfs but theyre not buisness decisions which are objectively bad for consumers.

Some ppl might want balance, others might not. However all sane ppl should want to pay less and receive more for it.

 

Don't see the differences at all. 

Micro transactions in warframe are optional. They don't force you to cough up cash to progress in any way shape or form.

Anyway , this has been stated a billion times over. I really don't feel like going into that stuff today.

So are microtransactions in any game, or at least thats what industry claims.

 

Saying that it does not matter because of optional claims is actually what this video describes as apathy.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Shifted]

 

And lets see what community outcry achieved.

-For example me3 ending got changed, for free, nope no fucks given here.

-Steam pulled paid mods because of outcry, nope no fucks given here.

-Deus ex preorder campaign got pulled back, nope no fucks given here.

 

Me3 ending got changed because people started refunding their copies. There were news articles about it happening.

Steam pulled paid mods because people started literally 'selling apples'. Virtual ones. It flooded the 'mod storefront' with bullS#&$, trivializing the entire idea. It was a clusterfuck without any quality control, valve just realized it too late.

Deus Ex preorder bullS#&$ was cancelled because, again, people refused to preorder.

 

If 'community outcry' is met with actual economic impact, things happen.

If there's no 'community outcry', but economic impact, things happen.

If there's just a 'community outcry' but sales are fine, nobody gives a F***.

 

It's all about money in the end.

 

Anyway, all this is about 'triple A' S#&$, not Warframe. 

DE is doing fine on the 'pay2win' front. If they F*** up, they fix it (eventually). It just takes them longer than expected.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Shifted

[Davoodoo]

Me3 ending got changed because people started refunding their copies. There were news articles about it happening.

Steam pulled paid mods because people started literally 'selling apples'. Virtual ones. It flooded the 'mod storefront' with bullS#&$, trivializing the entire idea. It was a clusterfuck without any quality control, valve just realized it too late.

Deus Ex preorder bullS#&$ was cancelled because, again, people refused to preorder.

 

If 'community outcry' is met with actual economic impact, things happen.

If there's no 'community outcry', but economic impact, things happen.

If there's just a 'community outcry' but sales are fine, nobody gives a F***.

 

It's all about money in the end.

 

Anyway, all this is about 'triple A' S#&$, not Warframe. 

DE is doing fine on the 'pay2win' front. If they F*** up, they fix it (eventually). It just takes them longer than expected.

If refunding digital copies to origin would be so easy, then theres also matter of online pass for me3(that was still a thing).

 

Didnt stop steam from allowing scammy indie devs repackaging unity bought assets and selling those, want a jim sterling video about it??

 

Then ppl actually did what they should and havent bought stuff they didnt like, somehow however i believe that outcry had some impact as most criticised early release is no longer present in reworked preorder campaign.

 

Also regardless of direct impact on any specific merchandise, bad publicity will negatively impact sales for whole company.

 

All this S#&$ is about buisness decisions which negatively impact customers and outcry.

Hey theres even a thread about new PA where someone actually pointed out hypocrisy of ppl complaining about horse armor for 2.5$ few years ago yet now everyone accepts 50$ accessories with open arms. Maybe some articles??

We there also have example of "gamer gratitude", person who buys stuff despite not liking it and trying to criticise outcriers. Wanna video about it??

 

And ive been always saying, pay2win isnt the worst that f2p spawned, wanna video about it??

Edited October 7, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Shifted]

-snip-

You keep comparing warframe to $60 titles that THEN add microtransactions.

 

Stop.

 

$50 "horse armor" in warframe is fine, because it's a f2p game, the stuff you buy is cosmetic and people also get other (also fair) things with it. Again, don't like the $50 horse armor? Don't buy it.

 

As for the "steam indie games" thing. Valve gets a $100 for each greenlight submission. That might put things into perspective for you.

[Tyrian3k]

Well, I think the most we can get from that video is that we shouldn't say "Deal with it!" about everything DE does. They've been continually making the grind in Warframe worse and worse, adding more and more stuff to the mountain of items you can get in the game.

 

I personally don't like how the game has become a grindfest that can last upwards of 1000 hours.

 

Pure RNG is incredibly frustrating for a player when it comes to loot, so what oftentimes brings players to spend plat on weapon/warframes is this frustration. First we got Warframes from boss missions, then we needed a key for Nekros, then we needed a harder to get key for Hydroid and the pinnacle of this was probably Mesa, which required you to play an invasion that occasionally rewarded a coordinate which gave you one chance at a Mesa part.

 

Primed mods that require hundreds of cores each and are nothing but better versions of other mods are also a horrible addition.

They are part of the issue that they try fixing half of the game's problems by introducing new mods for said problem aka bandaid mods.

Point Blank/Ravage should be better? No need to buff it! Have a new Primed version!

Physical damage mods are horrible? No need to buff them! Have a whole new set of them that is better!

A weapon is underpowered? No need to buff it! Have a syndicate mod for it!

A weapon has ammo issues? No need to buff it! Have ammo mutation mods!

 

By that extension, Primed Pistol Mutation is a bandaidception... bandaiding the bandaid...

[Davoodoo]

And thats exactly what ive been saying tyrian.

De pulls more and more bullS#&$ and ppl get increasingly fed up and when bubble bursts, ill be there to say "haha i told you so years ago".

 

Also "its f2p so it can get away with it, deal with it or get lost" is apathy video talks about.

 

And you probably dont know it, or refuse to acknowledge it but "horse armor" is idea of throwing money and receiving nothing worthwhile in return, thats why it became running joke in industry.

And sure you might have too much money on you and it doesnt bother you but you must realise these are 1 of most expensive cosmetics in industry and thus comparison to horse is valid.

 

Also to cite video "understand to demand other to stop caring just because you dont care". 

Edited October 7, 2015 by Davoodoo

[notlamprey]

I think the new PA is a crock of horse-puckey, so I'm not buying it.

 

I'm also voting with my time, and that time is being spent in other games now. I'm taking a few days to cool off while I work through midterms, and hopefully the discussion will have settled into a pattern I can make sense of when I come back and see about contributing.

[Shifted]

-snip-

I agree with you, especially the part about primed mods. I never liked the idea either. I'm all for buffing mods instead of adding new, better versions.

 

Like I said before though, both Hydroid and Mesa were toned down.

 

Now if you paid attention to recent devstreams, the issue of mod balancing has also come to DE's attention.

I believe this will get fixed eventually, it just - like I said before - takes more time than we players are comfortable with.

Unlike those triple-a publishers I mentioned before, I believe DE actually listens. They're just a bit slow.

 

 

If they didn't, Atlas would be obtainable by killing a juggernaut that has A CHANCE (i.e. not guaranteed) to spawn on a RANDOM (also not guaranteed) infestation invasion which then would also have a CHANCE to drop one of the parts for the pherliac pod.

Oh and you'd also have to craft the potent pherliac pod and use it every time you'd want to fight J3 Golem. And then craft it again.

It didn't happen though, did it?

Just sayin'.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Shifted

[TheErebus.]

I do agree with what Jim said.

Right now, I'm playing less and less WF and even though the new PA skin for the kubrow really looks good, I'm not gonna spend my money on something that I don't intend on playing anymore.

[Tyrian3k]

I agree with you, especially the part about primed mods. I never liked the idea either. I'm all for buffing mods instead of adding new, better versions.

 

Like I said before though, both Hydroid and Mesa were toned down.

 

Now if you paid attention to recent devstreams, the issue of mod balancing has also come to DE's attention.

I believe this will get fixed eventually, it just - like I said before - takes more time than we players are comfortable with.

Unlike those triple-a publishers I mentioned before, I believe DE actually listens. They're just a bit slow.

 

 

If they didn't, Atlas would be obtainable by killing a juggernaut that has A CHANCE (i.e. not guaranteed) to spawn on a RANDOM (also not guaranteed) infestation invasion which then would also have a CHANCE to drop one of the parts for the pherliac pod.

Oh and you'd also have to craft the potent pherliac pod and use it every time you'd want to fight J3 Golem. And then craft it again.

It didn't happen though, did it?

Just sayin'.

 

Well, I never said they don't listen and are intentionally making things worse. I do know that they do good things as well, but that doesn't make the bad ones any better.

If they had made the acquisition of Warframes continually worse every time they release one, I wouldn't be here any more.

 

They realized that mod balancing is an issue, but only on the topic of mandatory mods. There's still no mention of buffing utility mods like reload, magazine size, ammo capacity etc. which have been useless for about 2.5 years now without a single mention anywhere.

And not every issue requires a lot of effort. Changing the values of some mods to make them at least somewhat decent isn't that difficult, especially if you consider that they obviously had the time to create a whole new better version of said mod.

[Pizzarugi]

Meanwhile in Path of Exile: All microtransactions (ignoring stash tabs) are purely cosmetic and have absolutely no impact on the game, and has become a highly successful game as a result.

That game is, unfortunately, also a massive grindfest. You gotta keep the players invested in the game somehow, preventing them from easily obtaining all the best things is the only way to do it.