Not A Major Nerf: New Duration Efficiency Mechanics Explained With Tldr

[LisRestall]

This is to stop people from ranting over the changes on toggled ability energy consumption. The changes were great, it had very positive effect on Ember while it did balance other frames. DE is going the right way.

 

So to the main point of this thread, as title says, how duration affects toggled abilities is NOT a major nerf or anything. It did partially nerf some frames but it is NOT major. It was a slight balance to other OP frames.

 

Here is the formula explained as simple as I can since I know alot (majority of forumers) of people could not understand math or just simply fails at it. I will try my best also on the TLDR parts.

 

The new formula is simply ---> current energy cost multiplied by current duration efficiency

 

Q1: How do you get your current energy cost. Simple.

Subtract your current efficiency from 100. Example, I have 90% efficiency, then we subtract 90 from 100 which is equal to 10. 10% is the energy cost.

Note: Yes, the new formula ignores the cap but it is exclusive to the formula only.

 

Q2: How do I get my current duration efficiency. Quite simple.

You divide 100 by current duration, let's say I have negative 60% duration then I will only have 40% duration remaining. 100 divided by 40 is equal to 2.5 --- 2.5 is now the current duration efficiency.

 

So with the examples given. We will now use the formula ---> "current energy cost multiplied by current duration efficiency".

That is 10% multiplied by 2.5 which is equal to 25% energy cost. To translate how much efficiency 25% energy cost is, we subtract 100 from it. 100 - 25 = 75%. Meaning with 10% energy cost and 2.5 duration efficiency, I could still maintain 75% efficiency which is the cap.

 

Q3: How the flying fluck do I reach 90% efficiency?

Maxed Streamline is 30% efficiency, Maxed Fleeting Expertise is 60% efficiency. Combine both and you get 90% efficiency which will be used on the formula. If you actually noticed, I did use a Maxed Streamline + Maxed Fleeting Expertise on my sample above.

 

Here's also a sample image how even with -60% duration, Ember maintains a capped efficiency on WoF simply by using Maxed Streamline and Maxed Fleeting Expertise.

Yes, negative duration still works fine with the changes. So please stop ranting.

 

TLDR:

Negative duration still works fine with the changes. You just need a maxed Streamline and Fleeting Expertise this time. After that you can adjust which mods you need. Blind Rage is totally out of the options now though as it will have a MASSIVE negative effect on the build due to how the formula works. Even with that said, if you put Transient Fortitude, you have to balance the additional negative duration using at least Continuity or Constitution.

 

TLDR: Spoonfeed Version

Put a Maxed Streamline, Maxed Fleeting Expertise, Maxed Intensify, Maxed Transient Fortitude and Maxed Continuity/Constitution and you'll get great results from your frame (check your abilities affected by mods on arsenal). Capped efficiency is maintained in this build even with negative duration. Also, never add Blind Rage unless there's an EV Trin around.

 

Final Note: The only nerf I see here is when you put Maxed Transient Fortitude, where it pushes your negative duration further which would obviously decrease your efficiency and won't reach maxed efficiency anymore. It needs to be countered by a duration mod like Continuity or Constitution which ends up eating a slot.

Edited October 9, 2015 by LisRestall

[Yorinar]

For clarity, you may want to change your wording for "subtract to" to "subtract from,"  "divide to" to "divide by," and "multiply to" to "multiply by."

[ranks21]

sounds like one big mess and should be averted because why the heck you now need 2 or 3 mods to get the efficiency that was there before the change?

 

 instead of streamlining everything, its now one convoluted mess which should have been avoided in the first place. was all this really needed?

[Demon.King]

Thanks for this. Just realized I was doing everything wrong xD

[LisRestall]

For clarity, you may want to change your wording for "subtract to" to "subtract from,"  "divide to" to "divide by," and "multiply to" to "multiply by."

Thanks, altho I'm not sure if I edited it correctly. English is not my first language.

[LisRestall]

Bump for awareness. Because that other "Major Nerf" thread still gets more attention than this thread. (Not whoring for attention but I just don't want DE to listen to a bunch of ignorants who doesn't try to understand changes on game mechanics.

[AdunSaveMe]

I'm just sitting here being too thick to actually understand it

[LoveLoveBeam]

Yes, but now how do I make up all those extra mod slots?

[LisRestall]

Yes, but now how do I make up all those extra mod slots?

I'm assuming Excalibur?

 

Maxed Intensify, Transient Fortitude, Streamline, Fleeting Expertise and Continuity/Consitution/Primed Continuity will give you the same max efficiency build with negative duration Excalibur like before. The only change you can see is the need of 1 duration mod which seems the be the minor nerf.

 

Adding Blind Rage though will give an extreme penalty unlike before.

 

If you're actually asking for suggestion on the 3 remaining slots. Then just put any survivability mod you prefer or add some range mod too.

[hukurokuju5]

efficiency maxes at 75%...... tha f.....

[BattledOne]

Sadly people just don't want to understand. Or they were/are skipping math class in school.   

I guess only redeeming point for people still confused about this system is the game not showing how the efficiency/duration work in detail. Now that efficiency doesn't have a cap, but instead the skills have a cap on how low their abilities can cost, while the UI still shows efficiency capping at 75%... it's a bit of a mess.

[SwartJas]

Kudos OP for explaining it very well.

The irony for me with all of this is that while this is a buff for some abilities, it hampers diversity, as you now require atleast 3 or 4 duration/ effeciency mods to have the same effect as before. Overall i build so that none of my frames has any of their stats under 100%( not a min maxer) so the change is a very welcome one for me.

DE should maybe release a different corrupted effeciency mod that can't be used in conjunction with Fleeting Expertise, and call it something like Blind Expertise, that gives effeciency at the cost of  power strength(basically an inverted blind Rage).

[BattledOne]

The irony for me with all of this is that while this is a buff for some abilities, it hampers diversity, as you now require atleast 3 or 4 duration/ effeciency mods to have the same effect as before. Overall i build so that none of my frames has any of their stats under 100%( not a min maxer) so the change is a very welcome one for me.

What? To get 75% efficiency before you had to use Fleeting and Streamline together (granted they didn't need to be completely maxed). Same is true for the current system. You only need Continuity (1 duration mod, mind you) when using Transient Fortitude. 

[LisRestall]

Sadly people just don't want to understand. Or they were/are skipping math class in school.   

I guess only redeeming point for people still confused about this system is the game not showing how the efficiency/duration work in detail. Now that efficiency doesn't have a cap, but instead the skills have a cap on how low their abilities can cost, while the UI still shows efficiency capping at 75%... it's a bit of a mess.

Yes ... it's really a mess. You know Arcane Chorus of Banshee? I think this is enough clue.

 

But then again, an uber negative duration build on Banshee doesn't work that well anyways unless built for Silence spam and occasional Sound Quakes. Imagine the coming of Primed Streamline though. Anyone who understands the formula would make gamebreaking builds with that mod.

[BattledOne]

Yes ... it's really a mess. You know Arcane Chorus of Banshee? I think this is enough clue.

 

But then again, an uber negative duration build on Banshee doesn't work that well anyways unless built for Silence spam and occasional Sound Quakes. Imagine the coming of Primed Streamline though. Anyone who understands the formula would make gamebreaking builds with that mod.

Banshee and Nyx can ignore negative duration with their Arcane Helmets, but for both of them a build with less than 100% duration makes little sense.

 

Also Primed Streamline would hardly make gamebreaking builds. It would allow for build where negative duration penalty can be ignored but besides freeing a mod slot from Continuity, it wouldn't suddenly trivialize the game. 

[LisRestall]

Banshee and Nyx can ignore negative duration with their Arcane Helmets, but for both of them a build with less than 100% duration makes little sense.

 

Also Primed Streamline would hardly make gamebreaking builds. It would allow for build where negative duration penalty can be ignored but besides freeing a mod slot from Continuity, it wouldn't suddenly trivialize the game. 

Keyword: Non-maxed, Blind Rage

[BattledOne]

Keyword: Non-maxed, Blind Rage

Well, realistically, how big of an impact would adding Blind Rage level that still conserves maximum efficiency be? If we take int oaccount keeping abilities at maximum efficiency.

 

2 ranks for 27% would take you from 185% to 212%, nothing spectacular.

 

4 ranks and needing a slot for Continuity, would take you from 185 to 230%. If you use Overextend - from 125% to 170%.

That would be a ~24% (35% with Overextend) increase in continuous power damage output.

 

For simple nuke abilities you would go from 212% to 257%(152% to 197% with Overextend) with a rank 7, a 21%(29% for Overextend) increase in damage output.

 

 

All of that is cool and all but doesn't change anything honestly. No frame will suddenly become invincible. Excalibur dealing 24% more damage with his Exalted Blade? He already steamrolls trough content, so that's like like looking trough the scope when you have the gun's barrel already burrowed in the target's head. Ember WoF and Accelerant combination dealing ~50% more damage? Just delays the point where she falls off into obscurity a few enemy levels further.

Things that scale infinitely into endless content, like Equinox Day form ultimate stay unchanged as the damage absorption and release aren't scaled by Power Strength.

Nuke frames already can easily go till 40 in T4 missions. After that they fall off, hard. Doing 30% more damage at that point does 0 for them. We are already past the overpowered point for the intended content, killing enemies instantly with 200% of their base health or 300% of their base health is just there as a $&*^ measuring contest.

The only real outcome of Primed Streamline is the lessened reliance on Fleeting Expertise, allowing for build to have +30-40%~ Duration with maxed efficiency, compared to now.

 

If you don't agree with me, list a warframe that will become severely overpowered with inclusion of P. Streamline.

[weezedog]

TLDR:

Negative duration still works fine with the changes. You just need a maxed Streamline and Fleeting Expertise this time. After that you can adjust which mods you need. Blind Rage is totally out of the options now though as it will have a MASSIVE negative effect on the build due to how the formula works. Even with that said, if you put Transient Fortitude, you have to balance the additional negative duration using at least Continuity or Constitution.

 

 

In what world is that NOT a major nerf? 

[Cynaris]

I'm glad it only takes a book to understand how things work in the game.

 

Will make it easy for everyone.

[LisRestall]

-snip-

True. The Warframes are already overpowered. It still adds to the powercreep though.

 

 

In what world is that NOT a major nerf? 

Because if you use Blind Rage, you end up having to eat your energy pads or get energy from an EV Trin anyways.

 

True it does give much more penalty than it used to but that is due to having negative duration. Why would negative duration not give penalties? Let me ask then, is DE heading the right way partially nerfing overpowered frames or not?

 

 

I'm glad it only takes a book to understand how things work in the game.

 

Will make it easy for everyone.

Because a few paragraph = book. Right?

 

I also discovered something called "Calculator". OMG it made things so much easier!

[Bachuuu]

So this is how it works, I thought that drain on abilities were only affected by duration mods, not efficiency mods.....

 

Better put my Fleeting back.

[StrangleJrk]

efficiency maxes at 75%...... tha f.....

Power cost caps at 75%, but energy drain abilities, like world on fire, are still affected by efficiency over 75% (although it is not displayed in game).