Some Kind Of Auction House? [Megathread]

[Zemosu]

We kinda need a way to trade items faster and more conveniently. Auction houses do mess with the economy, but they also ease finding and buying the items you need and for a decent price.

 

I like Onimorphs idea of doing something similar to the Consignment House from city of villans where the selling price is hidden.

 

http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Consignment_House

[CarrotSalad]

And what makes you thing they arent manipulating the market now? they have few hundred people to spam the chat room to set the standard. 300 x 2 mins = 600 mins try to beat that,

 

open market is always better than closed market.

 

in open market people cant make abnormal profit like now.

 

it will not affect your trade because you still can trade in trading room.

 

your shout is delayed in 2 mins, during peek hours, within 2 mins your post will be pushed way above.

 

I've seen enough to be convinced there are already people manipulating it but this is something No one in the community communicated to DE before we got trading. Really wish DE held it off and designed a system right the first time.

 

Anyway the reselling/buying issue can be easily resolved if you give every item in game a limit of 1 trade. Binding the item to the purchaser account. It will prevent the type of price and market manipulation that many of us against a th/marketplace are scared of.

Edited August 3, 2015 by CarrotSalad

[Velsva]

I've seen enough to be convinced there are already people manipulating it but this is something No one in the community communicated to DE before we got trading. Really wish DE held it off and designed a system right the first time.

 

Anyway the reselling/buying issue can be easily resolved if you give every item in game a limit of 1 trade. Binding the item to the purchaser account. It will prevent the type of price and market manipulation that many of us against a th/marketplace are scared of.

 

I refuse to sell items to people who seem like they want to buy just to re sell the item. It just shoves up the prices of items in a bad way. I have a feeling this might be happening a lot with Life Strike as of late.

[(PSN)Draconis1981]

even in an auction you can set a guide price, I don't see a problem.

[shJACKit]

if we wanted an auction house then droprates of key items/parts would have to be lowered by at least 80-90%. Otherwise really everything would have the value of 1-5p in a very short period of time.

[Recro]

Long story  short (since I accidentally deleted my previous post), the trading system REALLY needs some QOL changes,

even though those changes could make or break the game, given WF's current nature, aka a yummy gear grindfest.

I've spent and wasted plenty of time trading with the current system, I'm used to it, but it's obviously not optimal...

so just knowing that DE intends to start working on it soon™ -ish would actually be quite motivating.

[Denninja]

There are no justifiable issues with a simple item list where you can lock an inventory item and have someone search and buyout.

[shJACKit]

There are no justifiable issues with a simple item list where you can lock an inventory item and have someone search and buyout.

You have no idea.

[(PSN)lupowolfen]

No Auction House Please!

An auction house will take all the fun out of the trading aspect of the game.

Prices will be homogenized and trading of them will occur in a narrow price range. Being able to buy low or sell high will become very difficult.

The chat interface could use improvement, but the current trading system is a lot of fun. An auction house will take away the fun.

[(PSN)fizzer94]

No auction house.

The best way to improve the trading is to split the trade chat into a WTB and a WTS sections. That way someone could just list an item and its price.

Seriously though. Auction Houses are the worst. They promote competitive undercutting to rediculoys levels. Actual trading and bartering skills are thrown out the window in favor for a game of "who is willing to sell for the cheapest?"

[Yezzik]

I don't want to deal with the wall of screaming scalpers that is Trading chat any more.

They'll still be scalpers with an AH, but at least they'll be silent.

Recruiting also needs to be supplemented by a group finder function where you can list what you're after, so specialist runs like the G3 don't get drowned out in chat by a wall of people begging for someone else to use their keys.

[shJACKit]

I don't want to deal with the wall of screaming scalpers that is Trading chat any more.

They'll still be scalpers with an AH, but at least they'll be silent.

Recruiting also needs to be supplemented by a group finder function where you can list what you're after, so specialist runs like the G3 don't get drowned out in chat by a wall of people begging for someone else to use their keys.

 

You don't understand, nothing in warframe has any value if you implement any kind of auction house or item list or how ever you call it. In return droprates of almost all items had to be drastically reduced. With an auction house, e.g., every prime part would go to a value of 1-5 platinum very quickly.

Edited August 3, 2015 by shJACKit

[XBlackLotusX]

i vote no AH my reasons why (this will be a long post

 

TL;DR they killed the fun of trading in a game i played for a long time and also made selling items luck based.

TL:DR devs i would say try and find some player feedback from other games that switched from a player to player trading system to an AH

also note that it could reduce sales of frames and weapons from new players because of the reduced price players will take compaired to market weapons.

from a fun and business standpoint it is a bad move in my opinion but im not all knowing and if DE do decide i hope they avoid the mistakes of past games.

 

i used to play a game called Runescape back befor alot of updates happened the equivilent of trade chat was the 1st server in a small bank in one of the main towns everyone used to go there to trade,

 

it was kinda a nice experience you got somthing rare you went there and sold it or you have alot of semi usefull items that you wanted to get rid of also that was the place to go. runescape and warframe at there core "keep the player playing catch" arnt that diferent both games require a fair amount of time to aquire rare items. and also a large investment of time just to gain the ability to farm said items. selling the items was somthing i used to do when i thought "i dont feel like farming i just wanna chillax for a while" which is also the case with me and trading in warframe.

 

then runescape introduced the grand exchange or there take on an ah (which is better than most mmo's AH but still was lacking) it removed the social aspect of trading i know most people will say but all i find is 12 year olds who rage at me because i wont sell them somthing cheeper or the reverse but anyone who has been trading for a long time and is fairly nice to the buyer knows that some of the social interactions can be quite plesant.which with an AH you lose that

 

if anything i would say making seperate meeting zones

if you want a mod go to /mod trading

if you want a prime go to / prime trading

if you want no plat trading go to /NFS trading

 

the 3rd could probly be named better but overall that would organise it so more people have an easyer time of buying and selling their desired items and would keek the social interaction side of trading that alot of traders love and some of them that dont know it ye.

Edited August 3, 2015 by XBlackLotusX

[Yezzik]

You don't understand, nothing in warframe has any value if you implement any kind of auction house or item list or how ever you call it. In return droprates of almost all items had to be drastically reduced. With an auction house, e.g., every prime part would go to a value of 1-5 platinum very quickly.

You're assuming (a) everyone will list their parts at the same time, (b) everyone will undercut to insane levels instead of waiting for the ones on sale to be sold, and © high prices are better.

High prices only benefit the seller, but when nobody can afford or is willing to buy their stuff at the prices they charge, they either adapt or fail.

If an AH happened and as you claim, the Ash Prime parts dropped to 5 plat despite there being no increase in supply, do you know what would happen?

They'd get bought. They'd get bought and the sellers would start raising the price a little to see if people would still buy them at 6 plat. Then 7. They keep buying it?

The market would stabilise to the correct value based on the will of those using it, as opposed to the value the sellers think their stuff is worth.

But all that requires your assumed dramatic price drop that appears out of whole cloth with no increase in supply to drive it.

Realistically, those Ash parts would get snapped up long before they ever hit 5 plat.

[XBlackLotusX]

<3 Auction houses

 

Those that say no.. Have you ever played any MMO with this system? (not install get bored and fast delete game, i mean PLAY)

 

Explain why action houses are bad please.

 

Economy gonna go down? for who? For those that want proffit that is.

 

Prices go down? its the same as trading chat... everyone's trying to sell so they go cheaper anyways.

posted a reply to this above this one figured id just say i played Runescape for 1 and a half years with a player to player trade system and enjoyed it more than any AH where i have to constantly undercut to sell anything.

[CarrotSalad]

High prices only benefit the seller, but when nobody can afford or is willing to buy their stuff at the prices they charge, they either adapt or fail.

Gold selling websites have proven this argument is untrue.

 

They purposely drive inflation so they can sell game items for real world cash. Taking money out of DE's hands altogether. Who would buy Frost Prime for 9,000 platinum when they can get it from a gold selling website for $20. The goal here by merchants is to control the market. Low to non existent drop rates help them maintain that control.

 

Sure those mods that everyone has 2x of are going to crash to 1p each. But those items of extreme rarity or are'nt even in the drop tables are going to fly.

[Guest (PS4)Baby0Shaq34]

You don't understand, nothing in warframe has any value if you implement any kind of auction house or item list or how ever you call it. In return droprates of almost all items had to be drastically reduced. With an auction house, e.g., every prime part would go to a value of 1-5 platinum very quickly.

AND?

Why would people hate buying a Ash Prime blueprint for 5 plat?

[Gale47]

NO thanks. Why not? Take a gander at Diablo 3, eh?

[Agentcheese]

Auction house is bad, though we need something better, forums are not the answer.  Also going to the Dojo is horrible, why can i not just gift mods to a friend like Diablo 3?

diablo 3 has instant gifting? im jealous  now.

[shJACKit]

You're assuming (a) everyone will list their parts at the same time, (b) everyone will undercut to insane levels instead of waiting for the ones on sale to be sold, and © high prices are better.

High prices only benefit the seller, but when nobody can afford or is willing to buy their stuff at the prices they charge, they either adapt or fail.

If an AH happened and as you claim, the Ash Prime parts dropped to 5 plat despite there being no increase in supply, do you know what would happen?

They'd get bought. They'd get bought and the sellers would start raising the price a little to see if people would still buy them at 6 plat. Then 7. They keep buying it?

The market would stabilise to the correct value based on the will of those using it, as opposed to the value the sellers think their stuff is worth.

But all that requires your assumed dramatic price drop that appears out of whole cloth with no increase in supply to drive it.

Realistically, those Ash parts would get snapped up long before they ever hit 5 plat.

 

 

"High prices?"

 

Almost everything in warframe tradechat is already cheap as F***. Most weapons go for 20-50pl already now, most frames for 30-80pl.

 

 

"The market would stabilise to the correct value based on the will of those using it, as opposed to the value the sellers think their stuff is worth."

 

This is 1-5pl for every prime part/set that is available as nothing in warframe is really rare and everything that is being horded by players in large amounts will be used to flood the market immediately from the point of time on when automated sales will be available.

 

 

"You're assuming (a) everyone will list their parts at the same time, (b) everyone will undercut to insane levels instead of waiting for the ones on sale to be sold, and © high prices are better."

 

Enough of everything will be listed at the same time at any time from players that don't or barely trade at all now so that barely anyone will sell anything anymore and therefore people will start undercutting immediately. What you consider high prices for prime items is roughly 10-25% of the prices that the non prime counterparts in the market shop cost in platinum.

 

 

"They'd get bought. They'd get bought and the sellers would start raising the price a little to see if people would still buy them at 6 plat. Then 7. They keep buying it?"

 

No. No need to buy for 2pl if like 1000 guys offer the same set for 1pl. Dreamer.

 

 

"If an AH happened and as you claim, the Ash Prime parts dropped to 5 plat despite there being no increase in supply, do you know what would happen?"

 

In warframe it is not about supply and demand but only about accessibility and finding a match. The supply of every item in wf is that extremely high that automated sales would destroy the market for any items almost immediately. Ofc new things would take a bit of time to reach the 1-5pl mark, but they quite soon would as well.

 

 

"But all that requires your assumed dramatic price drop that appears out of whole cloth with no increase in supply to drive it. Realistically, those Ash parts would get snapped up long before they ever hit 5 plat."

 

This is not about ash oh my goodness. Ofc the few things that are new to the game would be an exception. You don't understand the supply - demand thing in wf at all mate. In wf there is oversupply of nearly everything there is. The only thing that gives things value is the lack of availability and the little skill and effort that is required in order to settle a trade, which is holding alot of ppl back from it and thus reducing the accessibility alot.

 

 

 

Stop arguing, you have in all seriousness no idea at all, I am afraid to say.

 

 

 

 

Little extra example with economy of 100 players at point of time X:

 

90 players have built Rhino Prime

5 players want to buy/get Rhino Prime

5 players don't want to get Rhino prime

 

90 (%) players play void/planet or idle afk

10 (%) players are in tradechat (50% of them is just spamming inside but not reading the spam or simply not seeing the request)

 

80 players have 200 Rhino p sets horded in inventory (2.5 each)

20 players dont have an additional Rhino p set or dont have it at all

 

At point of time X:

1 (actually 0.5, but he is the one that is there actively searching for rhino p while a minute latere he is gone and there will be 0 etc.) players would be searching rhino p set in trade chat

8 players in tradechat have the ability to sell rhino p of which 50% are not reading the chat so 4 are left.

 

The one player who requests rhino prime in tradechat will get 4 messages from the players that have one or several of the 200 (supply) sets available. This is the accesssibility.

 

 

In an auction house market system with 1 day listing of as many items as your MR is, the accessibility of 4:1 would turn immediatly into roughly 100-150:1 at any given time in this example.

 

This is how poe economy works.

Edited August 3, 2015 by shJACKit

[Yezzik]

"High prices?"

Almost everything in warframe tradechat is already cheap as F***. Most weapons go for 20-50pl already now, most frames for 30-80pl.

50 Platinum is not cheap.

This is 1-5pl for every prime part/set that is available as nothing in warframe is really rare

Who cares that the junk nobody can shift because everyone keeps spamming it gets listed for 1 Plat?

You already admitted the new stuff is an exception. That's because demand outstrips supply, something that carries over to a lesser degree to the PA packs it follows.

What you consider high prices for prime items is roughly 10-25% of the prices that the non prime counterparts in the market shop cost in platinum.

Market weapons are stupidly priced to take advantage of the impatient and the stupid.

That doesn't mean prime parts need to follow suit.

No. No need to buy for 2pl if like 1000 guys offer the same set for 1pl. Dreamer.

Those 1 Plat more-common-than-air-itself parts would get bought up, likely by people seeking easy ducats without the effort. Some would buy some to try relisting at 2, and the price would stabilise.

If the supply falls to a point where the ones listed at 1 disappear, those listed at 1 become the new norm. Someone undercuts to 1 and the cycle repeats.

But that's only possible with a large enough supply compared to demand. With a smaller supply, people list them for the price they think they're worth--say, 30--and the balance between supply and demand determines whether the price rises or falls and how much by.

This is not about ash oh my goodness. Ofc the few things that are new to the game would be an exception.

I used Ash as an example. Obviously his parts won't stabilise or even fall anywhere near as fast as others, if only because he's new and people will want to keep those parts for themselves.

[shJACKit]

With the effect of ducats the values wouldn't go to 1-5 but something slightly above it. They will go to minimum + ducats spread which isn't much more.

 

 

Just look at my example of accessibility 4:1 vs. 100-150:1 and you will understand why an auction house destroys any trading.

 

The requirement of efforts compared to zero efforts automated trading increases your probability of selling something by alot of times when investing the little effort every here and then.

 

 

Why do you even want the automated trading if you don't care about values in warframe? Your automated trading will reduce your efforts to zero and also reduce your sales to almost zero.

[Yezzik]

Look at Trading.

It's a hellhole of screaming as people desperately try to stand out by screaming louder, and the whispers it relies on are two people saying "offer?" in the hppes the other will cave first.

I would rather there not be trading at all, and that loot be shifted from RNG to rewards from progression bars filled up by doing missions or rushed with Plat.

The problem being we don't have enough worthwhile Plat sinks that take it out of the economy.

[rudman88]

I have no idea what inflation u guys talking about when rare mod some are sold at 3 p.

 

The idea of auction house is just to make buying and selling much easier and friendlier instead of spaming at trading room.

 

As is said before, DE can limit per player it can be one / player. This way, players will sell what earn the most for them.

 

Thus i dont believe 1000 of us will sell the same item.

 

inflation can only happens when supply grow slower than demand

 

 

In other game this become a failure because of weapon variaty ( speical effect on weapons) and + (weapon levels)

 

But 

 

in warframe case is impossible, This is because every one can get the stuff. Every one can go farm the mods.

 

With the effect of ducats the values wouldn't go to 1-5 but something slightly above it. They will go to minimum + ducats spread which isn't much more.

 

 

Just look at my example of accessibility 4:1 vs. 100-150:1 and you will understand why an auction house destroys any trading.

 

The requirement of efforts compared to zero efforts automated trading increases your probability of selling something by alot of times when investing the little effort every here and then.

 

 

Why do you even want the automated trading if you don't care about values in warframe? Your automated trading will reduce your efforts to zero and also reduce your sales to almost zero.

 

In this game, dont tell me your effort is only measured by how much u grind?

Even if you bought from auto trade.

lets say max serration, you still need to farm 150 plats for it.

 

This will only get rid the time consume when you wasting time in trading room and still can farm happily

[VocalMagic]

Question, What's stopping a guild from controlling the prices right now?

Edited August 3, 2015 by VocalMagic