LilLemay Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Thats biggest bullS#&$ ive ever heard. If company makes profit without providing content then what incentive they have to provide content?? If you want more content then you need to prove that youre not gonna pay until you receive that content, otherwise youll receive more crap for cash shop just like warframe is getting for all these years. Ok I wouldn't exactly say that we've been getting ''crap'' the only things i'd say are ''crap'' are some of Baro's recent drops, and that's mainly because I already had what he was offering so it's not really crap. As far as general content goes, DE has been delivering pretty well when it comes to content, yeah some of it has bugs, but that doesn't stop us from enjoying it in most cases, and honestly in some cases the bugs make it more fun :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachatoo Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 . If company makes profit without providing content then what incentive they have to provide content?? The incentive is more profit. Look at U17, when that dropped there were a ton of new players that came in an started spending money on it. Same thing will happen with U18. It works pretty effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) The incentive is more profit. Look at U17, when that dropped there were a ton of new players that came in an started spending money on it. Same thing will happen with U18. It works pretty effectively. http://steamcharts.com/app/230410 Look at that, every big update will bring more ppl then they leave again. Why would they actually invest money into making content when they can keep minimal staff making reskins and make money that way. Ok I wouldn't exactly say that we've been getting ''crap'' the only things i'd say are ''crap'' are some of Baro's recent drops, and that's mainly because I already had what he was offering so it's not really crap. As far as general content goes, DE has been delivering pretty well when it comes to content, yeah some of it has bugs, but that doesn't stop us from enjoying it in most cases, and honestly in some cases the bugs make it more fun :p Im sure you can tell me what content weve been getting. But 1st 1)grind isnt content 2)gear isnt content unless it allows you to approach gameplay differently or changes how core gameplay works(like aw, silent weapons) 3)maps aint content unless it allows for new approach to gameplay(like sharkwing) 4)Enemy is content only if it provides new mechanics(new bosses) 5)Quests are content if they provide new gameplay elements or are being relevant to chain which introduces these elements or pushes overall story forward(natah for example) 6)content lasts only till 1st clear, then it becomes grind Basically if it allows you to do something you couldnt do before, its new content. This definition aint harsh, by it nearly everything that "wow clones" provide can be considered content. Edited October 13, 2015 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilLemay Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) -snip- Okay well.. by definition anything that is added into the game that wasn't previously in the game is ''content'' since content is just something that's in the game that can be interacted with/experienced. And of course it's gonna become a grind, DE and the game itself never once claimed that it wasn't a grind-fest, in-fact if you listen to Rebecca and Megan's talks during the primetime episodes they outright acknowledge the grind-fest. They've given us a hell of a lot of quality content recently, new guns to play with, a new enemy type, two new frames, conclave changes, two new quests (one of which with staggering lore implications), a few augments (i think), a new gamemode type (sharkwing), several QoL changes to archwing as well as new gamemodes in archwing, they PBR'ed the ENTIRE void which isn't content but it's nice visual changes that we appreciate, new prime stuff (woo trin.. and ash too i guess), the baro stuff that comes (which isn't always great but its there), a new skin and huge change to Valkyr, a huge change to the way drain abilities work, a huge change to the way Mesa's ult works, a new sentinel, changes to the trading system and i'm sure i'm forgetting a few things. Yes eventually you're going to get through all that, but that's a given, since the game is still in open beta, so that comes with the sad reality of having to wait for new content to come out when you clear all of the existing, but that also means that more content IS coming Edited October 13, 2015 by LilLemay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Okay well.. by definition anything that is added into the game that wasn't previously in the game is ''content'' since content is just something that's in the game that can be interacted with/experienced. And of course it's gonna become a grind, DE and the game itself never once claimed that it wasn't a grind-fest, in-fact if you listen to Rebecca and Megan's talks during the primetime episodes they outright acknowledge the grind-fest. They've given us a hell of a lot of quality content recently, new guns to play with, a new enemy type, two new frames, conclave changes, two new quests (one of which with staggering lore implications), a few augments (i think), a new gamemode type (sharkwing), several QoL changes to archwing as well as new gamemodes in archwing, they PBR'ed the ENTIRE void which isn't content but it's nice visual changes that we appreciate, new prime stuff (woo trin.. and ash too i guess), the baro stuff that comes (which isn't always great but its there), a new skin and huge change to Valkyr, a huge change to the way drain abilities work, a huge change to the way Mesa's ult works, a new sentinel, changes to the trading system and i'm sure i'm forgetting a few things. Yes eventually you're going to get through all that, but that's a given, since the game is still in open beta, so that comes with the sad reality of having to wait for new content to come out when you clear all of the existing, but that also means that more content IS coming Lets take a look. New guns aint content, theyre modified content which was previously in game, aka reskins. Quests?? series of missions which were already in game. Augments modify abilities which were already in game. New gamemodes are again copies of content already in game. Qol and pbr doesnt have nothing to do with gameplay and still doesnt add anything new to game. Prime stuff is again reskin, it doesnt even add new abilities. Balance changes add nothing new. We could maybe argue new abilities if they werent in game already in some form By your own defnition none of above is content. By defintion provided by me at least natah and aw gamemodes were new content. Edited October 13, 2015 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleerr2 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Well yeah.. but if that's the case then no one is going to be buying plat, which is DE's main source of income, it isn't free to run this game you know guys, as well as it isn't free to produce more content. The main problem with an auction house is that it would kill the platinum economy, which would ultimately kill the game, because if anything can be bought for a ridiculously low amount of plat, there's going to be less people buying platinum and supporting DE. While you bring up some very good points, and this would work entirely actually, that would require DE to go through and place price ranges on EVERY trade-able item in the game, and if they don't do that then price gouging will just tear the plat economy down. Also regarding the being able to set your own price thing, the only things that are ever going to sell are the ones that are the cheapest priced, because in an auction house situation where the price range on an item is 100-120, the seller who set's his price at 100 is going to get his plat alot faster, because who's honestly going to willingly spend MORE plat when there's cheaper ones on the market? so effectively the price range feature you suggested is useless, since no one will willingly buy something for more plat when there's another one right below it that's cheaper. Which means DE would basically be setting a price on every trade-able item in the game. And given that we can't get them to fix bugs that are years old, do you really think they'd go back in just to keep trade prices up to date with the ever changing supply and demand of the game? Judging by the upper part, its painfully obvious you are one ot those "item prices will plummet'' type of ppl, but its good that you atleast try to have an open mind about all this, however you are not diggin deep enough and you are somewhat illogical in your claims... First of all regarding the price range... Keep in mind that an item sould be NIETHER too underpriced nor too overpriced! Thats why the range cap has 2 ranges... What if the cheapest price for the ash prime set is 200p on the AH, and what if its more? There needs to be 2 ranges, obviously... Second of all, De don't have to go back at all, they only need to go forward! Trust me, i know for a fact that doing nothing and getting money for it is very good, however its not who knows how hard, to assign a new gm to look over the AH and its pricings, ESPECIALLY with all the profit they are going to make from all of this! If you think the current De's Milk spikes make a lasting diffrence on overall demand... Really?! - - - - - - Im still waiting for your input ninja-kid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachatoo Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Seeing some new posts regarding price ranges, which concerns me. I don't want DE to set a price range on how much my stuff is worth. Look at the pricing of some of the stuff on the market and you'll understand why. They are ridiculously overpriced, 275p for a non-primed warframe? No thank you. I'd rather stick to trade chat than imagine what horrors DE will imagine for price ranges. Supply/demand system we have now works, if you come up with a better idea than that, I'll be waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Tbh its in both our and de best interest to avoid price ranges. 1)im pretty sure most of stuff will lie on bottom price. 2)if de will implement that then they would need to be responsible for them, so if community decides x is worth 50p and price range is 100-200 then they #*($%%@ up 3)price ranges is manipulation on free market, so not only they already manipulated supply and demand of some items but now theyll also dictate prices. Edited October 13, 2015 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonfr34k Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Well yeah.. but if that's the case then no one is going to be buying plat, which is DE's main source of income, it isn't free to run this game you know guys, as well as it isn't free to produce more content. The main problem with an auction house is that it would kill the platinum economy, which would ultimately kill the game, because if anything can be bought for a ridiculously low amount of plat, there's going to be less people buying platinum and supporting DE. While you bring up some very good points, and this would work entirely actually, that would require DE to go through and place price ranges on EVERY trade-able item in the game, and if they don't do that then price gouging will just tear the plat economy down. Also regarding the being able to set your own price thing, the only things that are ever going to sell are the ones that are the cheapest priced, because in an auction house situation where the price range on an item is 100-120, the seller who set's his price at 100 is going to get his plat alot faster, because who's honestly going to willingly spend MORE plat when there's cheaper ones on the market? so effectively the price range feature you suggested is useless, since no one will willingly buy something for more plat when there's another one right below it that's cheaper. Which means DE would basically be setting a price on every trade-able item in the game. And given that we can't get them to fix bugs that are years old, do you really think they'd go back in just to keep trade prices up to date with the ever changing supply and demand of the game? Sorry i didnt realize the drop rate, i havent been able to play update 17.5 yet because of a broken laptop, just just been browsing the forums and helping out where i can or just replying to fan art / concepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) I wouldnt worry about ppl buying plat, especially when theres PA every 3 months, which ppl still buy. Also regardless of what you do, new primes, new mod, new anything means high price, its not gonna change. Then theres also matter of buying out, ppl with lots of plat can basically buy out every single piece of specific item and resell it for higher price, were not steam market there will be maybe 30k entries, not 30 milion. Ducat junk is already bought for 1p, i can imagine ppl actually buying off crap from ah to boost their ducs so it will balance itself out nicely. Then theres also market, skins etc, platinum sales arent based on trading alone as plat used in trading isnt automatically spent. Actually if something, if ppl wouldnt be able to get S#&$ton of plat off trading would be more inclined to buy plat, but thats pretty much worst case scenario as generally earning plat would be easier. Did wow market ever crash?? its healthy with reasonable prices Did all stuff in godawful ah in diablo suddenly became cheap?? no at end there were still items worth lifetime savings. So why do you think everything will sudenly drop to 1p and no one will ever buy it?? Edited October 13, 2015 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Auction Houses are actually a bad thing.the Steam Market is a prime example of how badly these systems go. very unhealthy for them to exist.you can either have an open Player Market, or you can have an 'Auction House' or anything that's like it.these two don't work together. Anyone who claims it would be abused more than the current trade system has apparently never used the trade chat... anyone that claims that Auction Houses are a positive thing clearly has never played very many Online games or used many online systems. they DO NOT work for Video Games. they work okay for real life however because then it's real things and real money. in games, they always destroy themselves. zero exceptions. always have, always will. i don't have any interest in arguing this, those that have no experience with Player Trading systems will want to - but i'm not going to try to explain why these don't work in 30 different ways. if you can't understand why they don't work, whatever. but whether you get it or not, they don't work. they never have worked. and they never will. and since Digital Extremes is making a Free to Play game, an Auction House only serves to increase the disparity between people that put in money all the time, and those that do not. that is not the case atm, Warframe is a very fair F2P game, and i'm glad of that. Players don't feel like spending money is necessary or mandatory, which is how Free to Play is supposed to be. and makes Warframe a pleasant place to be, regardless of that i have/do spend money, or even if i didn't. Edited October 13, 2015 by taiiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) And why is auction house bad?? Everything goes for 0.03$ on steam market?? not true, i see on front page for dota 2, kinetic gem for 26$, set for 23.5$ few weapons for 1-3$. Csgo?? only chests and most common drops go for low price, pretty much same as warframe trading chat. Even tf2 got fair share of high priced items, out of 580 pages of items i went through 100 most expensive and they never went below 50$. Wide range of prices based on supply and demand. So wheres the problem here?? Eve online runs purely on auction house, wow had no problem with ah for all these years, wildstar and rift use ah and no one complains. I know of 1 example of ah that backfired Blizzard turning diablo into ah based mmo with f2p microtransaction based drop rates to boost sales on ah. Buisness model fail and showing lack of respect for players. But honestly if you expect that ppl will be happy when you put your profits before delivering good product then you shoulld be fired. What is so bad in ah?? 1 thing at least. Edited October 13, 2015 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Kid Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 And why is auction house bad?? Everything goes for 0.03$ on steam market?? not true, i see on front page for dota 2, kinetic gem for 26$, set for 23.5$ few weapons for 1-3$. Csgo?? only chests and most common drops go for low price, pretty much same as warframe trading chat. Even tf2 got fair share of high priced items, out of 580 pages of items i went through 100 most expensive and they never went below 50$. So you're saying that items in WF should have the same drop rate as a kinetic gem? I wonder what the drop rate of kinetic gem is... Oh right... 0%. Check the dota 2 steam market again. Items that have a 5% drop rate (the drop rate of the rarest prime) barely break 0.5$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderfox Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Auction houses in the dojo, the relay, the crapper, I don't care. Any AH would be better than the awkward excuse for an economy that is the Trade channel. Signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) So you're saying that items in WF should have the same drop rate as a kinetic gem? I wonder what the drop rate of kinetic gem is... Oh right... 0%. Check the dota 2 steam market again. Items that have a 5% drop rate (the drop rate of the rarest prime) barely break 0.5$. Want to argue drop rates on items which have no impact on gameplay?? well then ask how much drop chance we have on cosmetic syandanas or armor pieces. Oh right... 0% Sure that such drop rates would be unacceptable on tiems which have any meaningful impact on gameplay and i wont argue about that, however you cant tell me that drop rate on cosmetic items in warframe are any higher. So thx, you also forgot that we already have drop rates set up around trading and f2p microtransactions. Also 1p trash parts, thats 0.07$ per piece before any discounts. Unobtainable frost prime 450p or 25$ + 5p, sounds pretty similiar. And even i forgot daily discount on dota 2, so yeah that 5% drop items wont ever be more expensive than official store, for obvious reasons. Warframe again wont have this "problem" Edited October 14, 2015 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Kid Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 So thx, you also forgot that we already have drop rates set up around trading and f2p microtransactions.(Hey, you're the one comparing it to Dota 2, a game with a purely cosmetic market)^This. So much this. We have a drop rate setup to accomodate an online trading system (tradr chat). Implement an AH, and drop rates will move to compensate. The end result will be way uglier than the trade chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed_Monkey Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 No, it cant be, an AH web site https://warframe.market/ :P Still think there should be a flee market of some sort were you can have predefined setups of stuff you want to sell instead of this hopless "Trade chat". Even if people agree to dis-agree the current system could still be much better. There will always be alternatives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) (Hey, you're the one comparing it to Dota 2, a game with a purely cosmetic market) ^This. So much this. We have a drop rate setup to accomodate an online trading system (tradr chat). Implement an AH, and drop rates will move to compensate. The end result will be way uglier than the trade chat. No i just compared it dota 2 when you mentioned its drop rates, i pointed out that not all items on steam are 0.03$. Yhm and somehow you forgot than untradeable hate, dread and despair so goddamn hard to get because theres what stalker pack and g3/zanuka drop brakk and detron like candies?? You also seem to forgot that mods already had sub 1% drop chances before trading with nightmare mods 1% drop chance at front, they need to push those sales on 200$ pack. Aw gear?? would you like to farm that?? cause if not theres market for you. Yeah trading didnt impact drop rates that much, if anything its PA and market that did. I can point out more inconsistencies. Synds were set up with trading in mind, for how much stuff goes?? 30-40p on brand new weapons?? 10p for mods?? Edited October 14, 2015 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Kid Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 -snip-Yeah, and those sub-1% mods are already cheaper than a prime frame, something that has a way higher drop rate. Which pretty much supports the price drop scenario with an AH.Also, untradable items are irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sines314 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 While the Trade Chat really could use some cleaning, I don't find it to be that bad. The problem is when it's taken too seriously. What I do is every now and then, I'll pop open my Prime Parts window and Trade Chat, and just watch the messages scroll by for a few minutes. If I see something I can offer, I'll sell it, usually low-balling because it's more important to move it than to hold onto it forever, and call it good. If in 3 minutes, I get no bites, I just move on. If I have a few easily sellable things (Syndicate mods/weapons, Prime Sets, Baro gear) then I'll post those in as WTS before watching trade chat scroll by. Again, if nothing pops up in a few minutes, I'll just leave and try the market next time I log into the game and want to take a break between missions. Sometimes, when I'm really adamant about selling (like when prices are very high on an item, such as when the Syndicate Primaries first rolled out), I'll just run the game in the corner, put up my WTS every couple of minutes, and just keep an eye out for private messages while watching TV. These methods of playing the market take very little time and effort, and as long as I remember to do it every now and then, I'll always have plat when I need it. But if you wait to try to sell things right when you actually need to buy something, then unless it's an easy sell (I'm holding onto a Glaive Prime set for just such an occassion :D) you're going to get frustrated as an hour spamming trade chat isn't going to get you nearly as many potential buyers to see your add as posting for 3 minutes once every couple of days for a week. Take it easy, sell in advance when you have things, and don't stick around for too long, and you should be able to keep a decent stock of platinum, even if all you have to offer is the passive Syndicate XP gain you get just from wearing your sigil. That's pretty much all I have, and ever since I started doing it, I've had plenty of plat for every weapon and frame slot I've ever needed. Add in the selling of certain new rare gear (primes, syndicate stuff, etc...) while it's fresh with high demand (Which means you can sell VERY quickly for large sums of money) to fuel my purchase of cosmetics and convience items (good ol' O-Cell BP), and I'm perfectly happy with what I have without all that much effort or market savvy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieNumnums Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 1. No auction houses. 2. You not being able to sell something is a matter of your personal luck and skill. Do not try to sell something that no one wants to buy- and you will have no issues. Most stuff everyone already has or does not want. 3. NO AUCTION HOUSES. They kill economies. This. Talk about deflations.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleerr2 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Seeing some new posts regarding price ranges, which concerns me. I don't want DE to set a price range on how much my stuff is worth. Look at the pricing of some of the stuff on the market and you'll understand why. They are ridiculously overpriced, 275p for a non-primed warframe? No thank you. I'd rather stick to trade chat than imagine what horrors DE will imagine for price ranges. Supply/demand system we have now works, if you come up with a better idea than that, I'll be waiting. Tbh its in both our and de best interest to avoid price ranges. 1)im pretty sure most of stuff will lie on bottom price. 2)if de will implement that then they would need to be responsible for them, so if community decides x is worth 50p and price range is 100-200 then they #*($%%@ up 3)price ranges is manipulation on free market, so not only they already manipulated supply and demand of some items but now theyll also dictate prices. Look... you both are too negative about this, its true, prices of cashshop's frames/weapons and prime frames/weapons dont make much sense, however you are forgeting there is 75% off and also the FACT that you cannot compare a cashshop to an AH. In the AH or rather Marketplace you can buy a full ash prime set for X amount of plat, but you can also SELL an ash prime set for a simillar if not the same amount (RANGES!) of plat... The drop chance is not going to change, so even if you have to buy something that costs alot you will also be able to sell the same thing for the same price or even higher with abit of luck. Ofc they will dictate prices of items, prices of items that you can buy and sell! Prime access costs 3k plat but you dont see noone rioting about it, right? anyone that claims that Auction Houses are a positive thing clearly has never played very many Online games or used many online systems. they DO NOT work for Video Games. they work okay for real life however because then it's real things and real money. in games, they always destroy themselves. zero exceptions. always have, always will. i don't have any interest in arguing this, those that have no experience with Player Trading systems will want to - but i'm not going to try to explain why these don't work in 30 different ways. if you can't understand why they don't work, whatever. but whether you get it or not, they don't work. they never have worked. and they never will. and since Digital Extremes is making a Free to Play game, an Auction House only serves to increase the disparity between people that put in money all the time, and those that do not. that is not the case atm, Warframe is a very fair F2P game, and i'm glad of that. Players don't feel like spending money is necessary or mandatory, which is how Free to Play is supposed to be. and makes Warframe a pleasant place to be, regardless of that i have/do spend money, or even if i didn't. You do realise that some ppl including myself use the term Auction House(AH) as a fancy name for ''Marketplace'' right? I know a real AH works on ''Bids'' but its fairly easy to notice when someone is using the term AH instead of Marketplace. I dont know any kind of video game that went bankrupt specifically because of an AH or a Marketplace, care to back that claim up?! And even the real ''bid'' AH would be much better than the broken trade chat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) And even the real ''bid'' AH would be much better than the broken trade chat! not really, no. what people are asking for, is the Steam Market, and many past trading systems like it that have come before. they don't work. they always collapse. only to the loss of the Consumer though, whoever owns the system makes a killing off of such a system. but everyone that uses it is who uses. just like how the Steam Market is - 1% of 1% of people using it make anything that actually lets them use the market without putting their own money into it every single time - and the same happens everywhere else. they don't work. and they never have. it doesn't matter how many times someone tries to make such Marketplaces, they will always fail. remember, part of the definition of Insanity is trying the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. Edit: the worst part, is the extreme oversaturation in such systems, in order for them to try and stay healthy, requires making things so incredibly rare that you change your game from whatever it was before, and mold it into a Stock Exchange Simulator. people thought 0.67% for Forma was bad? imagine how low it needs to be to not over saturate when you multiply that by millions of Players. let's estimate some numbers. from the average active Players per week, if everyone played ONE Void Mission at 0.67%, there would be approaching 14,000 of that item per hour(assuming said Mission takes an Hour, but most Missions are much shorter than that...) appearing on such a Marketplace. open Marketplaces / Auction Houses do not work . Edited October 14, 2015 by taiiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acidulant Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Make everything bought off of auction house account bound Retain dojo trading Problem solved Edited October 14, 2015 by Acidulant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAD9eR Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 market manipulation is ALREADY happening ....... and yes , were loving all the plat xD ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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