Bringing Back Arcane Helmets For New Players

[45neo]

The advantages are miniscule, and are available to such a tiny fraction of the player base that it's not worth taking any action.

lol miniscule ^^^^^^

 

well let me tell you this.

 

Because arcane helmets are no longer available I am not gonna be as valuable as a loki because I don'y have max range. Because I don't have the arcane helmet for trinity I am not going  as valuable because I don't have the duration boost.

 

You can argue all you want that the boosts are, miniscule but 15% boost in range is like more than the base amount given by a stretch mod. And since arcane helmets are no longer dropped. Well that makes it totally unfair for me.

 

Now yes removing arcane helmets might not be the best solution to this problem.  De should at least give some compensation to the players who can't obtain them. I.E. Making there be a way to get arcane helmets again. 

Edited October 17, 2015 by 45neo

[Sabreracer]

 I've been here since a little before U10 and as a result have a full set of Arcane helmets.  If you feel that having arcanes limits your choice of cosmetics DE gave us the tools to remove the enhancements.

 

Why should those who have invested a lot of time and effort into this lose this because a few feel that everyone should have a participation medal rather than some win, some lose.  Life is never fully fair there will always be those with some advantage over others.  If someone has better reflexes should they be penalised or those that have more time to play have poor drop rates than those with limited time.

 

My biggest question is the OP mentioned that having these items give the owner a big advantage over those that don't.  This is a PvE game.  So suggesting a newer player is at a severe loss at having say 400 armour over 475 for one with the arcane helmet.  It's hardly game breaking and if it  would spoil some ones enjoyment of the game I think they need to get out into the real world for a break.

 

Should I give up all my maxed mods because new players don't have them yet.  Sure given time they will get there but there are newer players all the time what about them.  If some cares enough you can trade for them, expensive yes but then so are many other things.  The "it's not fair" is childish BS like "I don't like AW so it shouldn't exist"

[IANOBW]

 I've been here since a little before U10 and as a result have a full set of Arcane helmets.  If you feel that having arcanes limits your choice of cosmetics DE gave us the tools to remove the enhancements.

 

Why should those who have invested a lot of time and effort into this lose this because a few feel that everyone should have a participation medal rather than some win, some lose.  Life is never fully fair there will always be those with some advantage over others.  If someone has better reflexes should they be penalised or those that have more time to play have poor drop rates than those with limited time.

 

My biggest question is the OP mentioned that having these items give the owner a big advantage over those that don't.  This is a PvE game.  So suggesting a newer player is at a severe loss at having say 400 armour over 475 for one with the arcane helmet.  It's hardly game breaking and if it  would spoil some ones enjoyment of the game I think they need to get out into the real world for a break.

 

Should I give up all my maxed mods because new players don't have them yet.  Sure given time they will get there but there are newer players all the time what about them.  If some cares enough you can trade for them, expensive yes but then so are many other things.  The "it's not fair" is childish BS like "I don't like AW so it shouldn't exist"

 

Those who were late to this game should not be locked out of content that was intended for everyone. Us older players are not special. Only those few founders are. Everyone deserves to have access to the arcane helmets, or nobody should.

 

To someone who would want to spend time making their frame as powerful as they can possibly achieve, getting the arcane helmet is a huge wall, and that wall is probably made of money and pseudo-exclusivity. That is downright wrong.

 

It isn't childish to question the removal of arcane helmets. Consider this - 2 player have played the game for the same amount of time, but one started a year after the other, whilst the other took a break from the game. The player who started before has access to arcane helmets, which were obtained from alerts. The other player doesn't have these arcanes, because he missed the window of opportunity. Whilst he may be able to get previous event weapons from new events, he may never get arcane helmets, even though they are essentially the same kind of reward. Is this fair?

[TheBrsrkr]

Those who were late to this game should not be locked out of content that was intended for everyone. Us older players are not special. Only those few founders are. Everyone deserves to have access to the arcane helmets, or nobody should.

They missed the opportunity. Those who didn't were awarded appropriately. You do not have the right to tell anyone that the rewards they earned should be removed because you can't have them.

[Amazerath]

Yeah, it's a tough one. IMO, the better solution would be to give refunds in some shape or form - many ideas have been suggested, from legendary cores, to regular cores, to free regular helmets for future updates. But you can never please everyone.

 

No, you can't. I don't want my arcanes removed just because of some phantom pain some of the new players might be feeling. I respect all players, both newer and older then me. I want all of them to have as much fun as possible. But this is not the way to get there.

 

If you want to ask DE to add arcane helmets back, that's alright. If you want new players to have access to old event weapons, that is also fine. But don't try to fix a problem by turning it into an even bigger one. Don't transfer pain around from one player to another. That doesn't solve anything and it is also unfair.

[Paratuumculus]

People have payed plat for them in trading, or gotten them from mission alerts. -> Costs invested in arcane helmets range from miniscule effort to hundreds of plat, makes refunds/compensation impossible to equitably implement if trying to remove them from the game completely.

They were removed because it went against their principle of tying stats to cosmetics (paraphrasing here), as that is still the case, making them available again is not likely to happen.

If neither removing them or adding them back into the game is a viable option, how about maybe converting them to arcane enhancements as a potential solution?

1) Keeping both upside and downside stats, convert existing arcane helmets into the cosmetic helmet but with 10x enhancements already applied, resulting in the same bonus. (If you already have the cosmetic version then you get a token plat refund or some cores or whatever)
2) Enhancements are now available as rewards in raids/NM raids, rarity scaled roughly according to how valuable the effects are.

This way, people who've farmed or bought the original arcanes keep the bonus stats but can now transfer them to whatever they like, so they're not limited by aesthetic appeal. 
People who've paid a lot for them still get their value's worth because they keep the same bonus stats.
Newer players can farm for those same bonuses as raid rewards so it's available for all.

Best way i can think of, that the least number of people would be justifiably butthurt. Existing users keep exactly the same performance. New users have a way to obtain said performance. Yea or nay?

[Sabreracer]

Those who were late to this game should not be locked out of content that was intended for everyone. Us older players are not special. Only those few founders are. Everyone deserves to have access to the arcane helmets, or nobody should.

 

To someone who would want to spend time making their frame as powerful as they can possibly achieve, getting the arcane helmet is a huge wall, and that wall is probably made of money and pseudo-exclusivity. That is downright wrong.

 

It isn't childish to question the removal of arcane helmets. Consider this - 2 player have played the game for the same amount of time, but one started a year after the other, whilst the other took a break from the game. The player who started before has access to arcane helmets, which were obtained from alerts. The other player doesn't have these arcanes, because he missed the window of opportunity. Whilst he may be able to get previous event weapons from new events, he may never get arcane helmets, even though they are essentially the same kind of reward. Is this fair?

Yes. They were here when that was the norm, why would it be fair for them to lose what they worked for? Alerts still had to be played and run even if no money was required, then as now alerts are rewards for those that play the game, right here and now while it is on. You snooze you lose.

[Barkano]

People have payed plat for them in trading, or gotten them from mission alerts. -> Costs invested in arcane helmets range from miniscule effort to hundreds of plat, makes refunds/compensation impossible to equitably implement if trying to remove them from the game completely.

They were removed because it went against their principle of tying stats to cosmetics (paraphrasing here), as that is still the case, making them available again is not likely to happen.

If neither removing them or adding them back into the game is a viable option, how about maybe converting them to arcane enhancements as a potential solution?

1) Keeping both upside and downside stats, convert existing arcane helmets into the cosmetic helmet but with 10x enhancements already applied, resulting in the same bonus. (If you already have the cosmetic version then you get a token plat refund or some cores or whatever)

2) Enhancements are now available as rewards in raids/NM raids, rarity scaled roughly according to how valuable the effects are.

This way, people who've farmed or bought the original arcanes keep the bonus stats but can now transfer them to whatever they like, so they're not limited by aesthetic appeal. 

People who've paid a lot for them still get their value's worth because they keep the same bonus stats.

Newer players can farm for those same bonuses as raid rewards so it's available for all.

Best way i can think of, that the least number of people would be justifiably butthurt. Existing users keep exactly the same performance. New users have a way to obtain said performance. Yea or nay?

the problem is that the whole enhancement stuff limit your option just like the old arcanes did... i mean you could stick the bonuses to an X helmet but with the tim a cool looking helm will be released, and you will be facing the same problem again.

[(PSN)LCGx_Leader]

Just let the players keep what they own, they were with the game early and supported it it's simple as that.

[(PSN)BostonFNORD]

I love the arcane helmets and wish there were more items like them.

Edited October 17, 2015 by (PS4)BostonFNORD

[Paratuumculus]

the problem is that the whole enhancement stuff limit your option just like the old arcanes did... i mean you could stick the bonuses to an X helmet but with the tim a cool looking helm will be released, and you will be facing the same problem again.

 

Enhancements can be distilled and transferred onto helmets or syandanas you choose. Of course, that creates its own gameplay changes as well cos' you could transfer vanguard's speed boost onto Volt.

[IANOBW]

They missed the opportunity. Those who didn't were awarded appropriately. You do not have the right to tell anyone that the rewards they earned should be removed because you can't have them.

 

They missed an opportunity, yes, but that opportunity should return for newer players, then.

 

 

If you want to ask DE to add arcane helmets back, that's alright. If you want new players to have access to old event weapons, that is also fine. But don't try to fix a problem by turning it into an even bigger one. Don't transfer pain around from one player to another. That doesn't solve anything and it is also unfair.

 

But if we are all on the same level of opportunity, who is hurt? We, as players, should be treated equally, be given the same recurring chances as our predecessors.

 

 

Yes. They were here when that was the norm, why would it be fair for them to lose what they worked for? Alerts still had to be played and run even if no money was required, then as now alerts are rewards for those that play the game, right here and now while it is on. You snooze you lose.

 

If they were to lose their arcanes, I can't imagine them not being compensated for it. DE aren't evil.

 

Also, don't try and argue that those alerts were at all difficult. They were not too frequent, but they weren't hard tasks.

 

"You snooze, you loose" shouldn't apply here, since nobody was sleeping in. They were never informed, as they were not playing the game. (besides, its a disgusting saying, built specially for people who are simply lucky - not a merit to be awarded for, really).

 

 

Just let the players keep what they own, they were with the game early and supported it it's simple as that.

 

Not everyone supported the game as such. Most of my pals haven't payed a dime on this game, and they own a lot of arcane helmets.

[kitsu]

You know, there is one thing I never understood. If the benefits of the arcane helmets is so miniscule, then why use it as a counter argument. That just supports that removing such a thing would not matter.

 

Indeed some arcane helmets are, nothing much, but there are still the few that changes things. As said, vangaurd turns a tank frame into a speeding loki.

Really, removing them a long time ago should have been done.

 

Just a ton of holes DE dug themselves into.

[IANOBW]

You know, there is one thing I never understood. If the benefits of the arcane helmets is so miniscule, then why use it as a counter argument. That just supports that removing such a thing would not matter.

 

Indeed some arcane helmets are, nothing much, but there are still the few that changes things. As said, vangaurd turns a tank frame into a speeding loki.

Really, removing them a long time ago should have been done.

 

Just a ton of holes DE dug themselves into.

 

Agreed, agreed and agreed.

 

It's a mess, and it will most definitely get worse as time goes on, as more players wonder why they can't have the same "small" advantages.

Edited October 17, 2015 by IANOBW

[TheBrsrkr]

They missed an opportunity, yes, but that opportunity should return for newer players, then.

That is an entirely different discussion.

[IANOBW]

That is an entirely different discussion.

 

Is it?

 

Well, lets discuss: I think DE should bring Arcanes back as quest rewards, alert rewards and event rewards.

[(PSN)LiamRising]

no contents locked at all only items removed which every MMO or F2P does and while  an agree it may seem like a disadvantage to not have them it is not i as if you want a stupidly op frame its entirely possible since prime mods are now around and players have come up with lots of insane builds that do not require arcanes its not really an issue them still existing.

 

plus since there are gonna be new trials in the future we will get new enhancements that could potentially outperform better we just gotta wait and se but removing arcanes will be too much of a backlash from older players to go ahead as that's essentially robbing everyone of time or money spent in acquiring them and i personally cannot see DE upsetting players that much.

[Amazerath]

But if we are all on the same level of opportunity, who is hurt? We, as players, should be treated equally, be given the same recurring chances as our predecessors.

 

Who is hurt? Everyone. You say new players should have access, but your proposal will end up causing everyone to lose access. Everyone will end up unsatisfied. Everyone will lose. Everyone will be hurt.

 

Again, I have nothing against promoting equality. I just think it can be promoted in a much better way then the one you are suggesting. Such as by adding instead of removing. I just don't understand why you are defending an option that is objectively worse then the alternative.

[-InV-igo95862]

They should be replaced with frame specific arcane enchantments and then re introduced in to the game.

[Sloan441]

There's no good reason to and a couple--one especially--not to.

 

Firstly, mind your own business. What others may or may not have isn't your concern. The number of these items is relatively miniscule and will only decrease with time.

 

Two, they aren't all that. They're nice to have, but simply are not that good. The only one I presently still use is Banshee's Chorus helm--which you wouldn't notice one way or the other if she's using it or not. I notice, I know how her builds work. All you know is she's there with support when you need it. Most of the newer prime warframes are just so damned cool looking, that I can't bear to put alt helmets on them anyway.

 

Three, the biggy. A lot of tenno out there paid real money for them. It's their stuff; quit trying to steal it. This really frosts my nether regions. Mind. Your. Own. Business. Tend to you own game and quit worrying about others. We'll all be happier for it.

[IANOBW]

Who is hurt? Everyone. You say new players should have access, but your proposal will end up causing everyone to lose access. Everyone will end up unsatisfied. Everyone will lose. Everyone will be hurt.

 

Again, I have nothing against promoting equality. I just think it can be promoted in a much better way then the one you are suggesting. Such as by adding instead of removing. I just don't understand why you are defending an option that is objectively worse then the alternative.

 

Hey, I made multiple proposals, the removal one being the most radical. Do you really think you would get no compensation from DE if they did remove the arcane helmets?

 

But whilst we're on the topic of removing them as a solution:

 

I think you're looking at this in a very negative view. We adapt, as players, to changes in the game. Remember when coptering was removed? People freaked out. But did it really kill the game? No, of course not. I'm sure the community could handle the complete removal of arcane helmets, with proper compensation.

 

 

They should be replaced with frame specific arcane enchantments and then re introduced in to the game.

 

This would be interesting. You suggest maybe an incorporation into the focus system DE have been planning for forever?

 

If so, I'm down for it.

 

 

There's no good reason to and a couple--one especially--not to.

 

Firstly, mind your own business. What others may or may not have isn't your concern. The number of these items is relatively miniscule and will only decrease with time.

 

Two, they aren't all that. They're nice to have, but simply are not that good. The only one I presently still use is Banshee's Chorus helm--which you wouldn't notice one way or the other if she's using it or not. I notice, I know how her builds work. All you know is she's there with support when you need it. Most of the newer prime warframes are just so damned cool looking, that I can't bear to put alt helmets on them anyway.

 

Three, the biggy. A lot of tenno out there paid real money for them. It's their stuff; quit trying to steal it. This really frosts my nether regions. Mind. Your. Own. Business. Tend to you own game and quit worrying about others. We'll all be happier for it.

 

Mind my own business? Lol. You seem a little too protective.

 

Well, I mean, if they aren't so good like you say, why not just get rid of them? I mean, nobody would miss them, right?

 

Of course DE would compensate players if they were removed. Remember the Steel charge nerf?

[Sabreracer]

Child A arrives in time to get ice cream but child B doesn't get the chance for ice cream that is a little unfair if you like.

Taking child's A ice cream off them to balance things is grossly unfair.

[IANOBW]

Child A arrives in time to get ice cream but child B doesn't get the chance for ice cream that is a little unfair if you like.

Taking child's A ice cream off them to balance things is grossly unfair.

 

Well, why not bring the Ice-cream truck back the next day so child B doesn't feel so left out?

[Charoy]

Well, why not bring the Ice-cream truck back the next day so child B doesn't feel so left out?

Because summer is over.

[Date_Terumune]

why didnt child B came at the same time as Child A?

 

Seriously, its like you asking that old players will be leveled out to the same ground as every new one.

 

What you suggest is a massive spit in the face to veterans that spend their time to get such helmets, and now you wish this time would be wasted totaly.

 

Why you get "bothered" about small 10% boost on some stat while you dont feel it at usual game run? small stat difference matters on long mission run [survival/defence]