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Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[DE]Rebecca

By [DE]Rebecca,
in Warframes

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Whatever_desu

Whatever_desu

Posted
Posted

DE, you specifically stated her health was getting a boost, as in a + to HP, why am I seeing a negative toward her health instead, is this a mistake?

Also, Molt's augment mod gave the player a boost to health the shorter the duration, can we expect a positive change to the augment mod since it was better having a - duration to get health back more quickly?

NOTE:  I'm not seeing how casting more skills that consume more energy to buff miasma is helpful, it's a power drain and one shouldn't have to hit multiple skills (a pseudo combo) in order to buff Miasma, it should just be a one click hit skill.  If you're insistent on continuing down this path she will need a boost toward even more power regen/max than what is currently adequate I think.

This guy hit the nail on the head.

 

And now for your enjoyment, a haiku.

 

Saryn rework hype.

All the anticipation.

Nerfs across the board...

 

But seriously though, she's now top of my "sell if you really need a slot" list.

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-Varrgas-

-Varrgas-

Posted
Posted

So mush cry ... amazing, on all online game's that the same .

 

Nerf = OMG you killed the game bla bla bla, delete the game ! GG devs ! 
Buff = OMG that OP you killed the game ! dev = noob !!!

 

I really don't care about if she is uped or not, i care about did i love the gameplay or not, this is fun or not ? and not about if i have to shoot 1 more time to kill target or not, and even more, i think more "synergy" is always better than just 4 spell without combo between them, even if we lost DPS etc, because spaming one or two button isn't really fun at all if you aren't a kid who just take fun when they see many big number on the scren and for those i say = play with a Pocket calculator.

 

Well, enought rage again kid ... sorry, but reading this everywhere on all multiplayer Game like Warframe start to be really really boring, and not constructive at all.

_________

I have one question if somone can tell me, did the new saryn passive of +25% statut duration applying on spell only ? or did it apply on statut from weapon too ?

 

thanks for those who can tell me.

 

Have a nice day and enjoy the patch and new things.

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Brokenrune

Brokenrune

Posted
Posted

I feel her tool kit cost way too much to pull off the combos >.< I mean you have to cast everything to get the best damagez, but the cost are too high :/. Perhaps lower the costs for her abilities? Maybe make her 4 only cost 25 energy, but each recast would ramp up that?

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RHuckebein

RHuckebein

Posted
Posted

We didn't have guaranteed viral procs on spore detonation with Venom.  Now we do, and it's hard to deny the value of being to apply multiple viral procs 100% of the time.   

 

Venom always applied the viral status on explosion.  Every single time I ever used it.  And I actually ran venom saryn before the nerf because it scaled better into later tower survivals than miasma did.

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Exodess

Exodess

Posted
Posted

So mush cry ... amazing, on all online game's that the same .

 

Nerf = OMG you killed the game bla bla bla, delete the game ! GG devs ! 

Buff = OMG that OP you killed the game ! dev = noob !!!

 

I really don't care about if she is uped or not, i care about did i love the gameplay or not, this is fun or not ? and not about if i have to shoot 1 more time to kill target or not, and even more, i think more "synergy" is always better than just 4 spell without combo between them, even if we lost DPS etc, because spaming one or two button isn't really fun at all if you aren't a kid who just take fun when they see many big number on the scren and for those i say = play with a Pocket calculator.

 

Well, enought rage again kid ... sorry, but reading this everywhere on all multiplayer Game like Warframe start to be really really boring, and not constructive at all.

_________

I have one question if somone can tell me, did the new saryn passive of +25% statut duration applying on spell only ? or did it apply on statut from weapon too ?

 

thanks for those who can tell me.

 

Have a nice day and enjoy the patch and new things.

 

That's a nice subjective viewpoint. Now where is your math?

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Kastorius

Kastorius

Posted
Posted

All of tonight's Saryn threads are packed full of strawman arguments painting anyone who doesn't like the rework as someone who simply misses the ability to press 4 to win.

 

Well, I'm not one of them. I reached MR20 long before the Mesa nerf (beg pardon, rework), without ever once having been part of a Mesa turret farming group. I did play my fair share of Draco, but nearly always with friends and clan mates using Mirage or another damage frame, actively capturing points and clearing out enemies.

 

Before her rework, I only very occasionally used Saryn for the novelty of nuking low- and mid-level enemies, and one or two ODDs. I found it incredibly boring, and it also annoyed other players who wanted to actually shoot things (so did Mesa).

 

Let me be clear: I wanted a Saryn rework just as much as anyone, but the problem is that this new rework is bad. It's not about being unable to press 4; I didn't like that, either. She is now the worst at dealing damage out of all damage-centric frames, and that includes Volt, because Speed can dramatically increase melee damage and coverage (and Shocking Speed is far better CC than Saryn is capable of), while Electric Shield provides some protection and dramatically increases the damage of any crit-based weapon.

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Z123FFSS89

Z123FFSS89

Posted
Posted

As a player who makes hybrid builds to make every skill useful I'm gonna have to say I'm enjoying the rework.

As far as bugs: miasma has the same issue radial blind has(triple animation with one cast)

Molt insta dies after casting miasma(not sure if this is a bug or not.)this works well with regen molt though...like godly lol

That's all I've ran into.

So....as much as I'm enjoying her I feel she could be better. Old Saryn could press 4 to nuke. Now we basically have to use all her powers to get the same affect...but it's not a guaranteed nuke everything. Right now miasma can't kill anything lvl 40+ on its own. If we're going to be forced to use all her powers in conjunction to get the same old miasma damage I think the damage multiplier or whatever it is when you use spore and contagion on molt should be higher at base.

Casting spore on molt is a pain because you either have to run backwards and cast it then run forward to nuke or cast molt, bullet jump away from it and try to cast it on the molt that enemies have swarmed that's no longer visible.

•Spores animation is too slow. It feels like there are dead frames. After you cast it your arm is just out there doing nothing for a second or two. Also, spores should pop on use. Honestly spore should just spread from Saryn in a radius.

•Molt-pls make molt spawn 1meter infront to help with casting on it.

•It'd be cool if miasma was a toggle and had a damage percentage like Equinox,storing all toxin,viral,corrosive damage dealt to enemies and then being able to unleash it with the molt/spore combo. Toxic,ViralCorrosive damage deal that depending on shade of green?? Talk about endless missions lol XD

Ideally I'd like spore and molt be combined and toxic lash become her new one and give her a new 3 skill. Molt would also have the spore effect that spreads out in a radius.

Overall I like the rework. But FROST DELUXE SKIN WHEN?? Pls T_T

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Makinar

Makinar

Posted
Posted (edited)

I love Saryn and all but why would anyone  pick  the new  Saryn as a melee frame when you can be a berserking crit monster and immortal for 10 minutes in Hysteria or go ninja all the way with Ash .

 

Cause DE logic.

Edited by Makinar
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-TSA-TimSin

-TSA-TimSin

Posted
Posted

Tested many different things with her and my result is:

 

-less tanky (due to HP nerv and less mobility due to casting more spells where you have to aim)

-less damage with more actions,energy and time needed

 

-best frame for spreading viral proc

 

Still doing good at low-mid tier and might be fun to combo her skills, but she is not as effective as before.

 

For me, who loves playing effective and min-maxing things, these changes are a big nerf to her and i highly dislike it.

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AzothCrow

AzothCrow

Posted
Posted

I would like to prefess this by saying; DE I appreciate all the hard work and coding that went into these changes. The idea is great on paper, creating a universal synergy with Saryn. I've done a lot of testing with these new changes as Saryn was the first frame I ever got and is still my favorite. 
 

1st Note: General. The damage Saryn can put out scales much better than it could before and she has a much more active and enjoyable play style to her. I did however try to mod her with a mid range build (purposely not using my "top tier" mods) and she is unplayable without the perfect, or near perfect, mod setup. 

 

2nd Note: Regenerative Molt: The point of augments is to provide a supplement change to a warframe's ability in a utility aspect. Regenerative molt did this very well before as Saryn was primarily a caster frame. Now that she is being shaped into more of a bruiser role this mod is a must to give her survive-ability, when an augment becomes a must use mod it should be considered to simply be added to the ability. Take excaliber's planned radial blind augment that was Incorporated into the ability. I feel the same logic applies here.

 

3rd Note: Team Play: Testing Saryn in solo mode was a blast, but I noticed that when I forgot to keep solo mode on it was a disaster. With the amount of effort it takes to build up her "money shot" just to have someone like ember clear the room with her single ability makes you feel like you just spent the last 10 minutes giving head unsuccessfully, in the end no one is happy. 

 

4th Note: Practicality: Saryn's rework can be summarized in a single word: unpractical. The energy demand is too high unless you run rage with regenerative molt, she is being played off as some kind of bruiser frame but when level 50 enemies stroll in a single bombard shot can kill her right off, there is a difference between synergy and prerequisite. Excaliber has synergy as his abilities assist one another without being neccisary for one another to function optimally. They offer different play styles while Saryn's abilities lock you into either a melee centric build or a "hide behind molt and pray there are no bombards" build. 

 

But enough critique; what are my suggestions? I'm not sure if you will read this post or not, but here is what I think could be done to improve Saryn.

 

1: Regenerative molt should probably be a static part of molt honestly. It's becoming a must use staple in her kit anyways, so I don't think that was the purpose of the augment mods. 

 

2: Spores should spread on death. I said it. It would make her game play more smooth and would allow a team synergy. Ember kills an enemy with your spores? No problem.

 

3: Molt is working well. Good job! However a similar invulnerability phase like snow globe would be a good idea to avoid another rhino iron skin mess. learn from your mistakes DE! lol. 

 

4: Venom lash should give static damage reduction not parry reduction. Perhaps increase the base duration? I'm not just whining about this either, quite frankly the biggest thing holding Saryn out of upper tier missions is her lack of survivability. Her molt ability does provide some cover for her, but from my testing it just is not enough. With regen molt you can manage but a frame should be playable without mods. No frame design should rely on mods. 

 

5: Miasma is tricky. I've always felt like it should lay down a cloud of gas. I mean, her name is Sarin (Saryn). Perhaps if this was a cloud you could make any enemies that die inside of it with spores on them will instantly spread them. Or add a slowing effect within the cloud, which leads me into my next point.

 

6: Saryn lacks practical CC. Her molt provides her with a semblance of CC but not enough to actually keep her alive. I think its time to step away from the drawing board here and hop in the game. Play some star chart missions, no more of this simulacrum testing. Also keep in mind, you might be a lot better at them game than the average player.

 

She is clunk and hard to use. A majority of players are not satisfied with her current state and I don't think changing some numbers around will be enough to fix her... Just my honest opinion as a long time Saryn main. Keep up the good work DE, we appreciate it. I'm sure you guys will get this all sorted out. Contrary to what many people on this thread think, you do care about your player base, otherwise she wouldn't have gotten the first rework. 

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Inarticulate

Inarticulate

Posted
Posted (edited)

Here's the problem with Saryn's synergy: it's too rigid, especially in the case of Miasma. You need to first cast Spore, then spread the spores around (optionally using Toxic Lash), then pop everything with Miasma.

 

Compare this with this game's undisputed King of Synergy, Loki, whose synergy is as effective as it is fluid:

- Decoy + Invisibility drops enemy aggro and offers an easy escape.

- Decoy + Switch Teleport allows you to quickly cross terrain and pull enemy aggro from you as a bonus.

- Decoy + Radial Disarm makes enemies run towards the Decoy, which is infinitely better than just having them stand or take cover and shoot at it.

- Decoy + Invisibility + Radial Disarm does the above Decoy + Radial Disarm even better.

- Radial Disarm as Invisibility wears off gives you plenty of breathing room to recast Invisibility.

 

And the best part, none of these really matter in what order you are casting them. Furthermore, none of these require any real setup, and all of them make intuitive sense.

 

 

Some suggestions for Saryn's kit to really make her less clunky and making her synergy a bit more fluid (a few ideas shamelessly taken from previous posts):

- Spore can be cast on the ground like Frost's Freeze. A Spore mass on the ground stays until the duration elapses or until an enemy steps on it, whichever comes first. The enemy that steps on the Spore mass is infected with Spore for the full duration of the ability.

- Spore spreads to nearby enemies when an infected enemy is killed.

- Hitting an enemy infected with Spore with a melee attack when Toxic Lash is active gives the Spore a higher infection range.

- Hitting a Molt infected with Spore with a melee attack when Toxic Lash active will pop the Molt and have the same increased infection range as above.

- Miasma lingers on the map for the duration of the ability as a light haze (so we don't have the same problems as with Frost's Snow Glove). Enemies within the Miasma cloud take damage over time. When the Miasma cloud dissipates or the enemy leaves the cloud, the enemy continues taking damage over time for a short while (albeit with reduced damage). (This is one of the reasons Nova's Molecular Prime is so powerful. The debuff lasts six times the duration of the initial wave.)

- Miasma is recastable and stacks with itself (instead of removing or refreshing the previous cloud).

- The damage bonus for Miasma from having a Toxin or Viral proc remains, but now it doesn't matter as much if you cast Miasma before or after spreading the proc (and the damage bonus also applies to the residual damage after the cloud dissipates).

 

 

We can address and rebalance Miasma's damage after making Saryn less clunky.

 

 

Also, for clarification, the current Miasma still deals 1 tick worth of damage immediately, so the total damage of a single cast is 1400 per enemy unmodded.

 

EDIT: The melee blocking damage reduction bonus from Toxic Lash appears to be additive with the weapon's base blocking damage reduction.

Edited by Inarticulate
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