[Pvp] Please Adjust Ash Prime

[BoyTitan]

Lets try this again last thread got derailed into oblivion and theres really only one frame I see a problem with when it comes to ehp+sprint.

 

Either reduce ash primes effective hp making him less tanky and increase his mobility or reduce his sprint speed since his ehp is high no other warframe has his ehp with that much sprint speed.

 

Also buff his abilities after doing 1 of the 2 above suggestions.Since Ash Prime was added to conclave I heave heard the his abilities suck so its ok that he has high mobility and sprint excuse and that was before the bullet jump nerfs. Hes broken fix him.

Edited December 1, 2015 by BoyTitan

[JeyciKon]

Doesnt matter how hard you try, half of the people wont notice this is pvp section.

[Phasedragon]

No, you don't hit absorb until the very last second.  When they're in mid swing of melee, or they've pointed their gun at you and have pulled the trigger... or if they're mid cast of an ability - it's all in the timing.  No one is dumb enough to hit absorb when they see it active, so use it at the very last second.  works every time, especially in close quarters combat, which is what I personally specialize in.

 

It's really hard to say if something is unbalanced in this kind of game with the way abilities and parkour mechanics are set up.  At least the weapon balancing in PvP are fairly decent (could be improved, but they're getting there).

 

Also, if you're going to attack someone's "inexperience" (for lack of a better term), you should at least know why they're not as perfect of a player as you.  I gave you a legitimate reason, so leave your ego at the door.  This game is more work for me than it is fun sometimes, and I don't get to actually play it as much as delegate and negotiate.  But that's off topic, so it's nothing that you should pursue anyway, right?

 

Well... this entire thread is going off topic LOL again 

 

Absorb is such a bad ability in any decent game. It just doesn't do much, and leaves you wide open after you drop it. The only way it works is as a wide aoe knockdown (which, honestly, shouldn't be a thing unless it's taken damage.) Using it against noobs does not correlate anything into going against an opponent with equal skill. Let's be honest, the skill ceiling is so high in warframe that most people could beat up noobs all day with something like valkyr's ripline as damage alone.

 

As for what I've said about you, don't get me wrong, please. Based on what you've claimed, you are most likely above average, and that's awesome that you've gotten into pvp and prevailed to that level. However, based also on what you've said, especially relating to absorb, it is clear that you haven't faced much real opposition. That is what I mean by experience, which is entirely separate from skill.

 

Getting back on topic, the fact is that ash prime is a heavy outlier in stats. He's got some of the highest sprint speed and the second highest ehp. I mean, you just can't counter that, at least in the actual sense of countering. The only way to beat it is to already be far better than the person using him or to use unbalanced abilities on your own. Abilities are far more difficult to balance because there are a lot of factors going into them, such as countering, energy control, and timing. However I'm not talking about abilties. I'm talking about nothing but stats, of which ash prime has way too much in both directions. While he is nerfed heavily in mobility, his sprint speed still allows him to get around nearly as fast.

Edited November 28, 2015 by PhaseShifted

[Naftal]

I don't really see how sprint speed is an issue.

 

Stop slowing down the game!

 

Bring back Maglev!

 

Revert BJ and rolling nerfs!

 

Nerf tank ehp!

Edited November 28, 2015 by Naftal

[Nazrethim]

Don't forget Ash has two pointless abilities (teleport and bladestorm) the other two are situational at best. What about the brick wall Frost prime? or Rhino? those have good stats and mobility like Ash, but super awesome abilities, should those be nerfed too?

Ash Prime is fine

[Phasedragon]

Don't forget Ash has two pointless abilities (teleport and bladestorm) the other two are situational at best. What about the brick wall Frost prime? or Rhino? those have good stats and mobility like Ash, but super awesome abilities, should those be nerfed too?

Ash Prime is fine

 

Shuriken is a great ability, one of the best of the #1 damage abilities, which in most cases is the only thing you need. Also, ash prime has way more speed than the other tanks by far.

[-InV-igo95862]

I don't really see how sprint speed is an issue.

 

Stop slowing down the game!

 

Bring back Maglev!

 

Revert BJ and rolling nerfs!

 

Nerf tank ehp!

 

If you don't like being slow, why don't you play something that is fast?

[Naftal]

If you don't like being slow, why don't you play something that is fast?

Maglev doesn't exist on any frame.

 

My frame choice won't change the ehp imbalance between frames.

[Zerga-08]

Don't forget Ash has two pointless abilities (teleport and bladestorm) the other two are situational at best. What about the brick wall Frost prime? or Rhino? those have good stats and mobility like Ash, but super awesome abilities, should those be nerfed too?

Ash Prime is fine

Shuriken is situational? Since when?

Edited November 28, 2015 by Zerga-08

[sappinmahsentry]

Titan, I played against you. I used Ash Prime for that match. I can see why you'd be angry. But the reason I was using Ash Prime was because every single fight in that server was with literally everyone. So there was bullets from all angles, so I had to choose a tank to get at least one kill.

[Nazrethim]

Shuriken is situation? Since when?

-It only works on open field, use it in a closed space and they shurikens will likely hit a wall due to the arc.

- It's only useful for killing a fleeing almost dead player since it deals average damage and provides no useful effect other than tracking the target, and if someone at full health just so happens to jump or walk near the target the shurikes will likely seek that player or split dealing scratch damage to both.

-If you go melee or your opponent forces you into melee range, the shurikens will fly past him/her and hit walls

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a good ability, but isn't precisely a brainless cast like WoF, Rhino's charge or Frost Snowglobe.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Nazrethim

[Zerga-08]

-It only works on open field, use it in a closed space and they shurikens will likely hit a wall due to the arc.

Um, the tracking is pretty strong on it, you have to be in very close range and the target has to be moving very fast for it to miss.

 

- It's only useful for killing a fleeing almost dead player since it deals average damage and provides no useful effect other than tracking the target, and if someone at full health just so happens to jump or walk near the target the shurikes will likely seek that player or split dealing scratch damage to both.

This is just flat out wrong. Taking out more than half HP is not even close to average, in fact it is extremely high.

 

-If you go melee or your opponent forces you into melee range, the shurikens will fly past him/her and hit walls

Then step back a few meters before throwing it?

 

Shuriken isn't situational as it can be used (spammed) in most situations. If it was situational then it would only be useful in very few situations.

[Nazrethim]

Um, the tracking is pretty strong on it, you have to be in very close range and the target has to be moving very fast for it to miss.

 

This is just flat out wrong. Taking out more than half HP is not even close to average, in fact it is extremely high.

 

Then step back a few meters before throwing it?

 

Shuriken isn't situational as it can be used (spammed) in most situations. If it was situational then it would only be useful in very few situations.

Each Shuriken deals 30p of damage, you need to land both to do 60p. And Ember can easily take 100 of your shield/health if you consider the fireball dot, while Frost freeze can slow you down allowing him the kill with a gun

Yeah sure, you can spam it, but only because it's the only ability worth using since the other abilities are useless crap by comparison to Shuriken and pretty much every single ability set in Conclave right now.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

-It only works on open field, use it in a closed space and they shurikens will likely hit a wall due to the arc.

- It's only useful for killing a fleeing almost dead player since it deals average damage and provides no useful effect other than tracking the target, and if someone at full health just so happens to jump or walk near the target the shurikes will likely seek that player or split dealing scratch damage to both.

-If you go melee or your opponent forces you into melee range, the shurikens will fly past him/her and hit walls

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a good ability, but isn't precisely a brainless cast like WoF, Rhino's charge or Frost Snowglobe.

woah there hold your breasteses

 

ash does not have a bad kit. His shuriken is currently one of the best 1 casts in the game. He can go invis AND his ult only requires to lock onto a single target and everyone in the AOE cannot escape.

 

Even if it does lower damage than the other ults, it's much easier to earn a multi kill with bladestorm than any other ult in the game.

[Shin]

He can go invis AND his ult only requires to lock onto a single target and everyone in the AOE cannot escape.

Invisibility is nowhere near useful in Conclaves. It is extremely situational and if you are up against a person who knows what they are doing, you're going to get sprayed and to be honest, you're better off throwing 2 shurikens to face your chaser.

 

 

Even if it does lower damage than the other ults, it's much easier to earn a multi kill with bladestorm than any other ult in the game.

It is extremely hard to land

 

also Ember would like to say hello.

[Nazrethim]

I think I love you Shin. Finally someone who realises Ash isn't an unstopable god of overpower!

 

Also, now I will give my personal pespective (objetivity be damned, there are a lot of subjective comments on the thread already)

I'm a pure melee player (my 5 loadouts consist of Ash P, melee weapon and no ranged) and Ash Prime is one, if not the only, warframe that can be effective as a pure melee, because it's the only that combines speed required to chase gunplayers and the stats to endure the bullet barrage while you chase them (because f**k yeah they can fire targets behind them while sprinting or in mid air without drawback)

Since DE aparently will never adress the problem pure melee combat has in pvp (low mobility and survivability) nerfing Ash Prime would be a coffin nail for my playstyle. Valkyr is too fragile, Rhino and Frost are too slow and Excalibur doesn't work in melee despite having a melee passive. Chroma is kinda meh, Atlas is terrible. You get my point, right?

[Pythadragon]

It is extremely hard to land

 

How is it hard to land? You can run away every ultimate ability in the game except for Oberon and Ash.

 

Oberons can miss if you are outside its radius

 

Ash is unescapable and refuses to cast if you aren't going to hit it. If it casts, it will hit.

 

Ash 4 is unable to miss, unlike every other ultimate ability. It is the easiest ultimate to hit.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Shin]

How is it hard to land? You can run away every ultimate ability in the game except for Oberon and Ash.

It is hard. Targeting on that thing is unreliable, lag affects it a lot, twisting hitboxes hinders the targeting too. 

 

Ash is unescapable and refuses to cast if you aren't going to hit it. If it casts, it will hit.

 

Ash 4 is unable to miss, unlike every other ultimate ability. It is the easiest ultimate to hit.

Easiest ult belongs to Ember, she can walk around while shooting at you and they usually dont have to shoot you in order to kill you. Most of the time they walk around with Gorgons too. Its not like you need 100 energy to activate it too.

 

Ash on the other hand needs 100 and mostly its an execution. You wont get to kill thousands like you do with Ember and i think thats why people dont like it.

 

Anyway i hope when they rework the Bladestorm they touch the use of Teleport and Smoke bomb aswell. 

[Nazrethim]

Well. Teleport wouldn't be hard to fix, just bring back the stagger+finisher or reduce the cost to a reasonable 5-10 energy and increase the range. Any of those two could make the ability useful.

As for Bladestorm... the only thing that needs fix is the range, make it at the very least 20y targeting range and add a third attack and call it a day.

Smoke bomb could get the stagger back (it's at pointblank range, come on!) and turn Tear gas into a lingering cloud that reduces enemy accuracy or just scr*ws up the visual like a misty non-epilepsy-inducer version of magnetic proc.

Once the at least 3/4 abilities become actually useful, then we could talk about stat nerfs. For the time being Ash prime is fine and balanced.

[-InV-igo95862]

It is hard. Targeting on that thing is unreliable, lag affects it a lot, twisting hitboxes hinders the targeting too. 

 

 

Its not hard. It just has short cast range. If you come up close its really easy. The point is you can't waste it. Oberon or Ember ultimate can be used without hitting anyone. Bladestorm grantees the damage if it goes off.

[-InV-igo95862]

Well. Teleport wouldn't be hard to fix, just bring back the stagger+finisher or reduce the cost to a reasonable 5-10 energy and increase the range. Any of those two could make the ability useful.

 

 

The only thing teleport needs is more range and no animation. Instant teleport near targeted enemy. The flipping animation is way too long, the enemy will escape while you are finishing it. The range is too small - you can cover same distance in less amount of time with parkour moves or sprint.

[Nighttide77]

Ash 4 is unable to miss, unlike every other ultimate ability. It is the easiest ultimate to hit.

 

Hitboxes are wonky and you have to have your crosshair on a target within a specific range in order to activate.  It may be easy for someone whose aim is expert level, but for anyone above average and below, you can die trying to even pull off that power.

[Phasedragon]

Hitboxes are wonky and you have to have your crosshair on a target within a specific range in order to activate.  It may be easy for someone whose aim is expert level, but for anyone above average and below, you can die trying to even pull off that power.

 

You don't need aim when you can just spam 4. It doesn't take energy unless it hits, so the second your crosshair brushes against someone they get hit.

[JonBenj]

Irrefutable, Bladestorm is a very decent #4 the only downside is the very close range.

 

Perfect for single target finishing, or BS - track target and finish with gunfire.

 

It does seem a little buggy at times though but overall pretty happy with Ash's kit.

[Nazrethim]

Aparently almost all people here play Ash PvP in the Duel Room not in actual Conclave matches. The abilities (sans Shuriken) walk a fine line between unreliable and useless, the only reason the frame is succesful is because of the stats, now you frogsh*ts who don't actually play ash ever want a nerf on a frame that barely has tools to actually fight? what are you smoking?

And tell me, by chance, any of those overpowered Ash you keep running into are killing you only with abilities and bulletjump or with definetly not overpowered weapons (like Marelok)?