New Quest: The Second Dream [U18 Megathread/spoilers]

[Wolfpack75]

I have no words for my displeasure in now having a little child avatar in my ship. I hope going forward I am not going to be required to wander around as that kid on my ship or on a relay or in a mission.

I was a bad@## space ninja who could take on any foe now I am a quasi Ghost in the machine/Enders Game ripoff who has a mother figure in the Lotus.

I know that the lore was pointing to this type of conclusion but that doesn't mean I need an entirely new area of my ship that houses my child self.

It was completely unnecessary and the fact that I now have a 5th ability where I "leap" out of my warframe to use it is ridiculous.

I know I am in the minority and I will probably get flamed for saying any of this but I felt someone needed to raise a voice of dissent. I don't need an avatar beyond my warframes.

[DeltaPangaea]

I have no words for my displeasure in now having a little child avatar in my ship. I hope going forward I am not going to be required to wander around as that kid on my ship or on a relay or in a mission.

I was a bad@## space ninja who could take on any foe now I am a quasi Ghost in the machine/Enders Game ripoff who has a mother figure in the Lotus.

I know that the lore was pointing to this type of conclusion but that doesn't mean I need an entirely new area of my ship that houses my child self.

It was completely unnecessary and the fact that I now have a 5th ability where I "leap" out of my warframe to use it is ridiculous.

I know I am in the minority and I will probably get flamed for saying any of this but I felt someone needed to raise a voice of dissent. I don't need an avatar beyond my warframes.

There doesn't seem to be any flaming going on for people saying it's stupid, which is nice. Amongst all the 'best mission ever i crey errytim', there's a number of people seriously questioning this decision.

[Wolfpack75]

There doesn't seem to be any flaming going on for people saying it's stupid, which is nice. Amongst all the 'best mission ever i crey errytim', there's a number of people seriously questioning this decision.

Yes and I hope it stays that way. My main point is questioning the need for the child avatars. I understand we are children controlling warframes, fine, I can accept that. Not an original concept but I am fine with that being the lore. What worries me is having to play as the child, will future updates have me wandering around as my tenno self? Will I have a mission at some point where my link to the warframes is "severed" and I have to go fix it?

I don't want to play a child who is physically on my ship, I much prefer the idea that I am a faceless consciousness that is in charge of my frames.

[(PSN)Nujintuai]

Nujintuai, this response is directly at you, and I mean no offence, but I strongly disagree with what you've said and I would like to politely refute/debate your points. I have gotten carried away and I apologise in advance for the lengthiness of my post, but I think it's all quite valid and would highly appreciate if you could spare the time to read through what I've said. There is a tl;dr summary, though it omits a lot of the content (and personally i abhor tl;dr's).

 

I think I have presented things well enough that others who also share Nujintuai's opinion will find my points of interest, which is why I'm posting this here at all and not simply PMing to him/her.

 

Since this is geared toward Nujintuai it's lengthy and detailed I'll just put it in spoiler tag. But I really recommend to those people thinking that this lore was just a last second twist to go and read the Codex entry for Ember Prime.

 

 

While you bring up entirely valid points, I also find them a little - pardon the term - childish. Warframe is a constantly evolving and improving game. You can't expect the to have all the answers and all the plot laid bare when it's in constant motion. It's what keeps the game alive and fresh, instead of stagnant. Do you bother the read a book or watch a movie when you know how it's going to progress? I tell you, I sure as hell don't. There are questions to be answered, and you may not always like the answers. This is true for everything.

 

 

Um. What? Excuse you? They haven't 'phoned' anything in. The moon missing on Earth has been a gaping question left unanswered for how many updates? Ordis has been spouting about not 'splitting the dream' for ages. He also hinted at the Orbiter (the Liset) being 'much larger than this'. And what do you know? We got a bigger ship! The codex entires for several Prime warframes scream at a deeper plot (involving children no less, I mean look at Ember P's. Seriously. Go and read it.) The Chroma quest has that eeire voice going on about the 'womb of the sky'. Which also happens to be what Hunhow called the Reservoir.

 

 

You seem to be clinging to this 'child soldier' issue. Have you heard of a little series called Halo? The whole Spartan program that spawns Master Chief, and others like him, is based off the actual historical Spartan way of life of taking children and raising them for war. Warframe is not the first (nor will it be the last) game or story to use this plot, and Warframe, as far as I have gathered from playing the quest, hasn't done something even that remotely traumatic (ripping them away from their families). The quest has a very serious tone, all the way through. I don't know where you're getting the idea that they took it lightly. It's clear from the get go that your life is in serious danger and some serious S#&$'s about to go down. If the Loki head that gets tossed to the floor in the opening cinematic didn't get that across, well S#&$, I don't know what will.

 

These 'children' are inherently dangerous (they lashed out at the people who found them - Margulis and Kaleen (the lady in the Ember P codex entry) were injured by them and the rampant power they possessed). The Warframes are a way to safely channel and harness that raw power. In the option I chose for dialogue at least, I gathered that their parents died aboard the Zariman ship, and they were taken care of by Margulis when they were found (though I could be wrong about the sequence of events here and the parent's CoD is unknown).

 

If you actually pay attention to the Operator's words, both during the quest and during mission transmissions, it is NOT the words of a little kid. Sure they're disoriented and scared (the Stalker just tried to kill their frail physical body), but they're more mature than a child. Think about it. All this time, they've been piloting crazy strong, stealthy killers. Before that, they wiped out an entire civilisation. Read the Stalker's codex entry for a glimpse on that if you've not done so already. They're not kids and I think people need to wash off that idea that 'Oh I've been reduced from a cool space-ninja to a little baby'. The Warframes are a tool, and the fact that we play as someone who can control that incredibly powerful tool is amazing. The only reason they probably don't speak like hardened killers - or not at all - is to help us (as human beings) identify with them. The conversation I had with Lotus was quite mature, albeit saddening.

 

I also recall reading someone's comment (somewhere, I can't remember if it was on this thread or another place entirely) that the Warframes seem to be wild beasts without the Operator's consciousness to keep them in check. Rhino P's Codex entry seems to support this, though that could be referring to a very violent Operator? I can't 100% make sense of that one.

If you don't like the idea of piloting a drone/robot, then think of it as a collaborative effort between brains (Operator) and brawn (Warframe). I, personally, have given my Warframes different personalities, over time. My Hydroid is loyal, but also kind of a wuss and pools far too often. My Banshee is a stern killer who takes no nonsense and wants absolutely nothing to do with the others in my arsenal, and my Vauban has a cheeky streak that drives him to decorate people with 'strategically placed' grenades. Just because the lore says they're suits being controlled, it doesn't mean I'm going to erase those traits i've tied to them.

 

 

But speculation is half the fun! Coming up with theories is always a blast. Where's the joy of just....having everything spelled out for you? You know, before U18, I thought that the Operator might've been a more advanced type of Cephalon. Like an advanced AI, or something of the like. It was such a relief to finally know the truth.

 

First and most immediate problem with your alternative is this: if the Orokin transferred the souls into a Warframe...they would just have put their soul into one Warframe, thus severely limiting the ability to use different frames. It would've been just like locking in a class in a RPG.

I'm thinking logically here and from a creators perspective; you don't make up an entire civilisation that's dumb enough to give these super powerful beings who are very likely to turn on said civilisation multiple OP bodies. So, logically, you only put them into one. One that you can easily control and shut down if they rebel.

Ontop of that, a civilisation that is dumb enough to give the void children several forms simply cannot be smart enough to make the technological advancements that the Orokin did.

This whole alternative dramatically cuts down on the freedom to switch from Warframe to Warframe that makes this game unique.

 

It would've been the same if Lotus had done the transfer. The Tenno have more power and more presence if they can be flexible and use multiple, replacable Warframes. They're scary. If you have just the one suit and you're caught out, that's it. But, if you have multiples, it allows the Tenno to shed their Warframe in case of emergency (like Alad V or a more pertinent example, aborting a mission after you've used 4 revives) and leave it behind as a shell. Alad himself confessed that what he found during his dissections didn't make a whole lot of sense, so it works.

 

As for Mirage, I don't understand what part doesn't fit anymore. We've always known that there were 'firsts' of Warframes. Valkyr is a perfect example. I believe that the Mirage in the quest was the 'first' Mirage and she was destroyed by Sentients that she was fighting, likely Hunhow, before Lotus hid the Reservoir. Possibly just before she hid it. Maybe Mirage was holding them off and giving Lotus the time she needed. After all, Mirage knew Lotus had been lying about sending a ship. If I'm correct, then it wouldn't have been possible to send a ship becuse everything was getting ready to hide in the Void.

 

You're probably right - the ones happy with the curret U18 lore update would probably have been happy with a plot similar to the one you laid out...but the thing is we're not happy, we're ecstatic about the one we actually got. It's deeper than a simple 'ninja wearing armour'. it gives us more to think about and chew on. Plus, how on earth would someone be able to go from fitting in an Atlas Warframe to a Mag Warframe? The drastic physical differences between the frames was a dead giveaway that were were never physically inside them.

 

TL;DR? though I really hope you did read it and once more I apologise for the lengthiness

If people don't like the way the lore's gone and don't want to spend their cash, that is perfectly fine, and it's up to them.

Just keep in mind that we've never HAD to spend money in the first place. Everything on Warframe that costs plat is cosmetic. You can always trade Prime parts for free plat when you need more weapon/warframe spaces.

Keep in mind that there has always been more hinted at. We've never had the full picture and with a constantly expanding game, that's only natural.

 I read your post, and I appreciate and thank you for a very well laid out, rational, and calmly delivered response to my post. On a personal note, I respect your post. 

 

However, I still hold that the lore that was previously laid out can lead to far different outcomes than what was chosen. This is how, for example, historical fiction is written. You take previously existing details (actual history) and then you bring them together in a fictional result.  That is the same process.

 

 None of the lore HAD to lead to this. Just because it CAN match does not mean it HAD to match. 

 

 The argument of "well, the previous lore supports it" is flawed. The previous lore can support dozens of possible outcomes-- especially when those outcomes can easily be tailored to match the lore.

 

 As for the issue regarding the tenno/frames --- honestly, the DEVs could have even used 95% of what they used. The Tenno could have been a body in a pod-- up to that point we are still good. (however, other possibilities could be equally developed-- such as the Tenno could have been minds uploaded to an ancient piece of tech known as the "Second Dream" ---very similar to the pod idea, just without the bodies,etc...MANY possibilities were available) 

 

 The fundamental problem is that they have created a dualism between the Operator and the Warframe-- and literally between the Player and the Warframe.   Read the post of the other dissenters : They want to play AS THE warframe, not as the person in a pod who is controlling the warframe.  

 

 This is a problem because 1.) it causes a disconnect between the player and the game, which causes players to stop paying money and stop playing the game.  If you read my previous post, my concern isn't for simply my own experience, but rather, that warframe loses a portion of its player base. And, being a capitalist american of 2015, I have to wonder what video game COMPANY makes a decision which will obviously run away paying customers...

 

 This is also a problem because warframe is now locked into a specific archetype --- one that many of us (especially those of us in our 30s, for example) have seen MANY TIMES...  how many anime shows is warframe now just a cheap knock off of --- about 4 ? 5?  

 

 Warframe DEVs had a chance to offer something unique-- something unique to just warframe---- but they chose to go a old and tired route.  While the quest and cinematics were done VERY well (it was beautiful).. the fact cannot be missed that this plot line is just rehashed crap. 

 

Anyway, I'm not gonna harp anymore. But, the simple facts are :

 

1.) The lore did not HAVE to end up like this. The Lore could have led to a dozen or so other outcomes.  

2.) This decision will/has cost them players

3.) This decision locks Warframe into a genre which, unfortunately, makes it dangerously close to being "wannabe anime" 

4.) This decision might also cost them new players. When people find out it is a pilot-and-robot anime, they very well may just skip it 

 

Again-- I'll still play it now and then... but, for my own self, I know I won't care about the game very much anymore.. and I sure won't be caught financially supporting an this kind of game. 

 

However, on that note-- I guess I owe DE gratitude for : 

 

1.) The two years of awesomeness they delivered PRIOR to this cluster-frack. Up until now, I loved warframe and had no trouble spending money on it. 

2.) DE has taught me to never trust another FTP game with a "developing story"... from now on, its back to fully established plot lines

               (Note: Your comparison to "a book" doesn't hold. A book's plot line is already set in stone. Just because I haven't read it yet, doesn't mean the book changes. A book is finished when you begin reading it.  This kind of "developing as it goes" game is nothing like a movie or a book) 

            *Further :  The fact that this game is about a kid controlling a robot should be revealed at the beginning. Selling it as space ninja, and then doing this, is basically a bait-and-switch. However, I don't think the bait-and-switch metaphor holds now .. after the release.. because everyone will know it is a game about a boy-and-his-robot now.. So that only applies to the players of the past two years**

 

And that is it-- I'm done. At this point, I would just be rehashing the same points/arguments.. 

 

 

**This part isn't related to U18, but since it was mentioned ***

 

 And lastly-- on a personal note : Just for the record, the "womb of the sky" is a horrible knock off of old Mayan holy text... considering that it didn't pan out ANYTHING like the story in the text, we can now officially call the use of Mayan religious texts a form of Appropriation...  So, shame on the DEVs for using people's sacred religious material as fodder for their story about a kid controlling a remote controlled robot....  Had they actually pushed the lore in a way that mirrored the Mayan story, that would have been cool. But, simply just taking some Mayan holy words and using them randomly to "sound cool" is not cool--- at all. 

[Rorkyr]

It was planned, since the start. We are "pilots" of the warframes, and we are able to switch between all of them + the lore of ember codex etc proves it. So, the current scenario was predictable, but Sheldon have mentioned that the "revelation" will not be loved by everyone. DE have taken a decision and assumed it, it was courageous from them and, even if I was expecting "more", I love the current scenario and all of the work behind it. So, I don't like people who blame the work of others because they just don't like it, especially the work of artists :/

No hate or something, but it's not really respectful to say some things (this is sh*t etc ...) against DE's work, that's all.

I think that DE should make a poll about it (like or dislike the current lore), it would be interesting to see the results. No ?

[DeltaPangaea]

It was planned, since the start. We are "pilots" of the warframes, and we are able to switch between all of them + the lore of ember codex etc proves it. So, the current scenario was predictable, but Sheldon have mentioned that the "revelation" will not be loved by everyone. DE have taken a decision and assumed it, it was courageous from them and, even if I was expecting "more", I love the current scenario and all of the work behind it. So, I don't like people who blame the work of others because they just don't like it, especially the work of artists :/

No hate or something, but it's not really respectful to say some things (this is sh*t etc ...) against DE's work, that's all.

I think that DE should make a poll about it (like or dislike the current lore), it would be interesting to see the results. No ?

I can hardly believe this was planned 'from the start'

 

And secondly, if we never criticized something because it might be rude, then we'd never get anywhere. Are we supposed to just roll around in a hugbox where nobody says anything bad ever?

[Omnimorph]

I can hardly believe this was planned 'from the start'

 

And secondly, if we never criticized something because it might be rude, then we'd never get anywhere. Are we supposed to just roll around in a hugbox where nobody says anything bad ever?

 

No, just not be rude when you're criticizing.

[Jakcal]

All this salt over a story.

Is it really so bad that you'll lose faith and just stop playing?

SMH

[omegaskorpion]

We still know that the Warframes do act on their own... when least expected.

 

Child controls the frame but the frame also lives and thinks. (and just like countles other animes/shows/movies/games where pilot and living/thinking/soul having suit/mech)

 

I mean, you know that the Valkyr did suffer from the Alad V experimentations (possibly even the child too thanks to the link).

 

Tecnicly the Warframes are infested, just bit smarter than the common infested. 

[(PSN)Nujintuai]

Promise this is my last post on this.  But I felt like, before I got on with my life, I needed to say the following : 

 

*face palm* Guys.. Ember Prime's Codex proves nothing.  That could have easily have been a previous story element that they canned and then revived within their new story.   We never questioned DE's right to make the game how they want-- that would be ridiculous.  So bringing that up is pointless and detracts from the key issues at hand.

 

 Issue I : Was this planned from the start or made up later on. You say CODEX entries prove this, but that is bad logic. Anyone who has ever gotten paid to produce a work of fiction (book, tv show, etc) knows that there is a process to creating a final product. Warframe is being developed as you play it-- the game is, in some ways,  a giant Beta test. (not really, of course. But it has the same 'spirit' of being worked on while you pay.. I mean, play) .

 *note : Issue I isn't even really that important. It is a legit issue, but I don't consider it that important outside of one's own need to decide if they are going to fall for the FTP "scams" (meaning, invest time and money only to watch game become something very different than what you thought you were investing in)  anymore.. *

 

 Issue II : Was it smart for DE to go with this story line, considering it limits them now to this anime-like lore and  chases away a portion of the fan base.  Remember, DE has every right to make the story how they want--- but we also have every right to say we hate it and stop paying, er.. I mean, stop playing their game.

 

I would position that ISSUE II is the real issue. Simply put, how many people who dissent will actually ditch the game. How many future players will ditch the game upon learning what it really is? Etc... 

 

 Note : Don't forget-- this is not "art"... this is a product. DE is a business. Their goal is profit. Any argument which positions them as brave artists is as broken as it is easily defeated in real debate. DE is a for profit business-- and as such, any and all decisions come down to "will they make money off of this "---- and it is with that simple, yet stark reality, that we analyze their decision to go with this lore. 

 

The argument here is not "whether you like it or not"-- the argument is whether or not the game is worth playing anymore.  Consider that you only have 24 hours in a day-- and probably spend 6-9 hours sleeping ... and then you go to work/school.. you also (presumably) spend time with friends and family.... this leaves a very small portion of time for actual video game playing in the larger scope of things (Yes, you might pull Friday/Saturday night-up-until-5 am binges, but those are not the norm/average on a regular basis.)   Also,  most of us don't have unlimited finances, and see we cannot dump money into any random game blindly and endlessly.  In shorthand :  We have to CHOOSE which games we play. You literally trade a portion of your lifespan (time) to play a game. Many people have traded lots of time (lifespan they cannot recover) and financial investment (money they cannot recover) to be given a product they did not want, and were led into supporting under false pretenses. (This is the risk of FTP "dynamic developing" games. We see this now.)  

 

 Many people chose to invest their time and money into Warframe. However, with this new lore (and new Operator speeches and the Focus dynamics, etc) --- some people simply cannot be asked to bother with the game anymore.  

 
In the end, it doesn't mean a whole lot-- those who wish to keep playing will play. But we would be remiss if we did not give voice to the dissenters who used to enjoy playing the game (time) and spending money to support the game (investment).  Many of those people have just been shown the result of their investment of time and money, and they are not happy.

 

 And that is the risk of investing in a game which wasn't set from the beginning-- which is why I said I won't invest in anymore "dynamic story" FTP online games like this-- because if the developers (especially developers of a game as awesome as warframe WAS) are willing to do this kind of bait-and-switch.. then we can't trust any future FTP "developing games"... 

 

 So, please-- it would be best if the actual issues are addressed. Please stop diverting the debate into pointless dead ends (such as claiming the CODEX lore supports the ending. It doesn't matter if it did or did not. Its a red herring. A distraction from the real points.) 

 

 Also,  I would also like to present a catch-22 :

 

 1.) If the devs DID have this planned from the beginning (which anybody who works with fiction-for-money knows this isn't true), then we must assume they had a bait-and-switch in mind the entire time.  Lead us along under false pretenses, then reveal the ridiculous game the players have been supporting (time and money) for 2 years.  

 

2.) If the Devs  did not have this planned from the beginning (which is the most likely situation, considering the unnatural jumps in the lore splicing)  then we, the players who dissent, are asking the DEVs to consider that this decision has backed Warframe into a corner and alienated a portion of the fan base.   We know they won't retract the new lore, but nonetheless, we ask them to reverse it in some manner in U19. Have the Operator lose their body and be forced to  exist only in the Warframes.. something to get rid of the entire "drone operator" dynamic that has been introduced. That is what we are asking. 

 

 In the shortest way possible : DE been selling us Space Ninjas for 2 years, then suddenly bust out with a Robot Anime game. That is either bait-and-switch or it is really horrible story telling.  Proof of mastery would have been going deeper and deeper into the Space Ninja theme -- but instead, they did not go deep into lore, but simply-- for lack of a better word -- rebooted the lore into a different paradigm.  We  feel this is very bad writing. It is like the murder of a mystery being someone who was absent from the entire story (thus not giving the reader any chance to figure the killer out). 

 

(note : the Devs had 17 updates to introduce this lore... but they kept building on the space ninja lore. If this truly was their plan the entire time, they could have easily transitioned into this lore properly. The stark jolt is further evidence of a later development.)

 

 They have every right to do this, of course. It is their property and their right.  The dissenters have never be ignorant to the fact that DE owns everything about Warframe. (Claims that we have are as ridiculous as they are off point.) However, since we were led along for 2 years and supported the game with time and money, we have a right to express our dissent.  

 

 Once we express our dissent, we either resume play or we move on to different games. 

 

But please, for the sake of the debate-- please address the actual issues. For example, it would be awesome if people would stop saying the CODEX proves it, because it proves nothing. That logic is broken and has already been explained a dozen times why its broken. --->And that isn't even the argument.<--- As previously stated, even if this was planned all along-- why the sudden transition-- why not a slow and steady lead in? Why lead people along for two years? Why make Warframe a wannabe anime, when it had the potential to corner the market on something more unique ?  Etc.    Those are the actual issues.  

 

  And again, the dissenters know that nothing is going to change.   This debate is more damage control and "we need a moment to analyze the decisions we made in our lives that led us to this point".

 

 and DE, on the off chance you are open to the dissenter's opinions : Please remerge the Player with the Warframe. Have the Operator lose their body and have to exist only as a mind that travels between  warframes. OR--- please make the Warframes develop a mind/soul of their own-- so the Operator stops being the point of reference. 

 

 You can reunite the fan base by making the warframes the point of reference again. You won't be retracting any lore, but you will be regaining a portion of the fans... and honestly, I doubt anybody who loved U18 will be upset if you readjust the story and make the warframes the point of reference again.  

 

 

 

 Anyway, I'm officially done with this topic.  Cheers everyone, love it our hate it.. U18 has arrived. Guess we just sit back and watch fate unfold.. 

[Jakcal]

You can reunite the fan base by making the warframes the point of reference again. You won't be retracting any lore, but you will be regaining a portion of the fans... and honestly, I doubt anybody who loved U18 will be upset if you readjust the story and make the warframes the point of reference again.

You know some people actually like this story. Don't just ask them to change their story based on your personal interests. There's no way for you to know that they even lost a significant portion of their player base just because of a reveal that can easily be ignored.

I mean, if we lost the operators I wouldn't be that upset, but I was always interested in the people who wore the suit, and would like to learn even more.

FAK CHUUUU

[Mobilizer]

If the Tenno are actually humans comparable to the "Avatar" movie, what was the significance of what Alad V did to Valkyr and Mesa?

 

The Lotus went through great lengths in order to stop Alad V from destroying those two Warframes, but now it seems like all her efforts were pointless...?

 

What do you guys think?

[Aila]

I don't know, why you guys don't like SD. For me it very logical and this is the best quest so far.

I was like WTF when i saw human face. I waited more than 2 years for this, and it's finally came. Thank you DE, the waiting was worth!

 

Only one thing i dont understand, how stalker teleported to our Liset. And why he cant kill our Tenno, when we will be on mission or something. For that case we need new quest to install anti-stalker barrier on our Landing craft ;3

[Aimop95]

If the Tenno are actually humans comparable to the "Avatar" movie, what was the significance of what Alad V did to Valkyr and Mesa?

 

The Lotus went through great lengths in order to stop Alad V from destroying those two Warframes, but now it seems like all her efforts were pointless...?

 

What do you guys think?

Transference has heavily implied that the Operator feels the pain a Warframe experiences. And as we know in U17, players started experiencing "glitches" where Tenno writing would appear in code format. The existence of such glitches means that the Transference processes isn't 100% perfect and it is possible that instead of protecting the Operator, when Valk/Mesa frames were captured, the Transference conferred the entire experience of pain onto the Operator, which killed them or drastically altered how  they behave.

[Kethus]

Please tell me your operator speaks about honor during missions no matter what you picked when talking to Lotus. I don't want to feel bad about not noticing the "protecting the innocent" option and that my character is Zuko now.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Kethus

[BlitzAceRush]

Please tell me your operator speaks about honor during missions no matter what you picked when talking to Lotus. I don't want to feel bad about not noticing the "protecting the innocent" option and that my character is Zuko now.

 

I went with knowledge for most of my answers and went with the Naramon way. My Tenno still speaks of honor.

[Focant]

I haven't read most of this thread, but I did want to just say a few words about the update.

 

Personally, I loved the entire Second Dream storyline. I always found the world of Warframe intriguing, but somewhat disjointed and a little barren. The codex entries hinted at a lot of cool stuff that wasn't really expanded on. Admittedly, my interest in Warframe was waning somewhat as a result of this lack of in-universe purpose and story. I'd come back for updates, play a bit, then be on my way. With the revelations of the Second Dream story though, the introduction of a Tenno you can customize and truly call your own, and the expansion of the world's history, I've found myself much more invested in what's happening in the game. The story quests weren't even that long, but they felt so cinematic and meaningful that I can't help but be interested again.

 

I've always loved Warframe ever since I started playing ages ago, but it was feeling a bit aimless and stuck in a rut up until now. With the release of this update though, my hopes for the future of the game are reinvigorated. I can only hope that DE continues to put out compelling story quests and expands on the world even more! After all, despite everything we've learned there are a ton of questions left to answer!

Edited December 6, 2015 by Focant

[DeltaPangaea]

You know some people actually like this story. Don't just ask them to change their story based on your personal interests. There's no way for you to know that they even lost a significant portion of their player base just because of a reveal that can easily be ignored.

I mean, if we lost the operators I wouldn't be that upset, but I was always interested in the people who wore the suit, and would like to learn even more.

FAK CHUUUU

Way to miss the point there, bud. Also, how does that even make sense? "Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you get to tell them what you DO want." You wanna try that one again?

 

Also, 'can easily be ignored' is a complete load of space refuse.

 

Wanna use Focus? Gotta go down and see the space cadet!

 

Wanna use your fancy new fifth power? Gotta call in the space cadet, while your warframe (Which is what people came to the game for and care about) falls over like the lifeless sack it is!

[Omnimorph]

People saying there has been a bait-and-switch are talking nonsense.  It's just that we weren't clever enough to figure it out from the lore.  In actual fact it's been in the lore all along (e.g. the penchant the Orokin have for living their lives in VR pods and the Zariman incident were the biggest clues, but also the Rhino codex, etc.). 

 

All along, the obvious answer to all the APPARENT inconsistencies and things it was hard to piece together, was the one we've got.

 

And the ironic thing is, it's exactly the "be who you want to be", " be a space ninja" that's been going on all this time.  All this time, these kids were "dreaming" that they really were these space ninjas.

 

You can't blame DE for yourself being too stupid to figure the truth out and making up some whack headcanon of your own instead (I say that as someone who was caught myself, I was in the "Warframes are like Iron Man suits you wear" camp).

Edited December 6, 2015 by Omnimorph

[NightmareT12]

You can't blame DE for yourself being too stupid to figure the truth out and making up some whack headcanon of your own instead (I say that as someone who was caught myself, I was in the "Warframes are like Iron Man suits you wear" camp).

 

Let's be honest: We all thought of this, earlier or later, thanks to Dark Sector's legacy.

 

On another hand, quite agree with you.

Also, I've realized that the impact this quest has on us will never be the same experience for new players that join from this point on. I mean, most of us have been here a long, long, long time playing.

Edited December 6, 2015 by NightmareT12

[Omnimorph]

Let's be honest: We all thought of this, earlier or later, thanks to Dark Sector's legacy.

 

On another hand, quite agree with you.

Also, I've realized that the impact this quest has on us will never be the same experience for new players that join from this point on. I mean, most of us have been here a long, long, long time playing.

 

Yeah, I wonder about how they're going to handle this going forward. 

 

I mean, they could do it like a secret society type of thing, where experienced players pledge never to reveal to newbies before they go through the "initiation" process of the Second Dream.  Bizarrely, that might just work to a large extent, if we keep spoiler-tagging every communication that might let slip the truth, and just promise not to be douches spoiling it for others.

 

But of course it seem s unlikely to work - I mean, it's already leaked on Youtube.

 

But then again, it's usually possible to avoid spoilers if you're resolute and people do spoiler-tag things, so it's possible you might be able to play the game through in sequence and learn the truth after a period of playing the game with the same lore-puzzled mindset as we did.

[Onyxrie]

Playing it safe and keeping everything in spoilers

Gona go on a vacation until I can join the stalker and murder that abomination in the back of my ship, with lots of slash procs ofc. I'll enjoy that, I'll enjoy that a lot.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Onyxrie

[Tate_LeTerre]

I just wanted to say: DE, I think you broke me. In the best way possible. (Spoilering for safety)

 

The words. I don't have them. And I haven't had them since I finished the quest. It's not at all what I was expecting. In some ways, it's better.

First off, the cinematics. Holy crap, the cinematics. I mean, I was expecting good, but... I eagerly await more of those cutscenes. You really know how to do them.

 

Second, the feel of the quest as a whole. I felt a definite crescendo happening in my (for lack of a better way of putting it) soul as the events amped up. I was legitimately scared when the Stalker showed up, and I was completely awestruck when I first saw the Moon out there in the Void. You guys did an amazing job building the atmosphere for the quest. I'll be honest, you coulda gone Half-Life 3 "It'll be worth the 37.5-year wait" on us, and I personally would have still agreed. That was definitely worth the wait. I haven't felt that hard in a very long time. It feels good to have such strong emotion again, even if only for the duration of the quest. For that, DE, you have the sincerest of my thanks. Please, keep up the amazing work.

 

Third, about the nature of the Operator, it was... somewhat jarring to see an actual face. But it was pulled off well in my opinion. In all honesty, my least favorite part of that is how he'll chime in mid-mission occasionally, but I've heard that can be turned off, so no complaints from me. I honestly don't know what I was expecting. Perhaps nothing. But, looking back at the lore we have, this ties together a lot of what we knew. In particular, I like how Vor's theory that the Tenno are energy beings isn't wrong, per se. It was just weird seeing a perfectly normal face. I was expecting some kind of distortion in there. But what we have works well enough. 

 

And lastly, Focus. I myself went Naramon, and I'm loving that decision. My biggest gripe is that it seems to me like the Operator should look more "spectral". Like, the Operator isn't physically there, just a manifestation of their energy. I feel as if the Focus ability should better reflect that.

 

Basically, my only complaint is that the Operator is visually just a normal human. But, it still makes sense in the lore, so I'm fine with it.

 

Ultimately, DE, you made an amazing product. Something that I myself would qualify as a work of art. Certainly not flawless, but the things that I find flaws in make sense in the greater whole. If quests continue to be like this, then we've all got a bright future.

 

And as my last relevant comment, the track in the Operator room, "This Is What You Are". That is perhaps the most beautiful music I've heard in a long while. I know it's not much, but please, if someone capable of doing so is reading this, give the people who created that hugs for me. They really deserve it.

 

Also, if anyone's interested, I was recording my whole playthrough of the quest. It'll take a while to edit together into something watchable, but it'll go up when I can do so. If you wanna see me bumbling around trying to find the Hunhow fragment among other things, shoot me a message and I'll let you know when it starts going up. ;)

Edited December 6, 2015 by Uzenvard

[(PSN)Astra4nn]

spoiler

 

I don't know how to use the forum right, but was asking about how to post something without it spoiling for others.

Edited December 6, 2015 by (PS4)Astra4nn

[(PSN)Redemption_015]

spoiler

 

I don't know how to use the forum right, but was asking about how to post something without it spoiling for others.

 

Follow this link, it'll teach you everything you need to know on BBCode, which is how you create Spoiler tabs like this:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/344438-how-to-format-your-posts-with-bbcode-megaguide/