Rhino Changes Feedback [U18 Megathread]

[(PSN)Mazendude]

I have a feeling that DE will just ignore what has been said here 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

On 5/11/2016 at 1:24 AM, Zarozian said:

This person has a death wish saying that here^

Lol, Rhino Prime is my main frame and my favorite frame in game. If only he was a little more effective and diverse in his power set, I wouldn't have to change frames for missions I know are too hard for him. For instance, to maximize iron skin, you must sacrifice roar and stomp, while maximizing stomp and roar sacrifices iron skin. This makes for endgame builds of rhino that are very limiting and boring. Also, his power's synergy suck because they don't work together for the power's purpose, like stomp and charge. Who uses charge for damage? Charging at a enemy in rhino stomp shouldn't increase the damage. It should do something positive, but not that. Only things I'd consider are either making rhino charge deal finisher damage instead of regular damage to enemies in rhino stomp, or in my personal preference, maybe making rhino charge permanently knocking out enemies in rhino stomp's stasis lock. I've seen it happen to warframes from bursas and from enemies being Ragdolled by my Jat Kittag. Add that to rhinos kit and give him some endgame level mechanics. Why does saryn, the DAMAGE frame get power synergy that increases DAMAGE, yet rhino, the CC TANK gets power synergy that increases.....damage? Maximizing saryn, nova, chroma, valkyr, wukong, or trinity doesn't sacrifice many of their powers, and even when maximizing one, the others are still effective, while with rhino, the same cannot be said.

[TheHUNKMrDeath]

Why does saryn, the DAMAGE frame get power synergy that increases DAMAGE, yet rhino, the CC TANK gets power synergy that increases.....damage?

Because of primal hatred towards Rhinos

Edited May 14, 2016 by TheHUNKMrDeath
Lack of quote

[Zarozian]

On 5/14/2016 at 10:17 AM, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Lol, Rhino Prime is my main frame and my favorite frame in game. If only he was a little more effective and diverse in his power set, I wouldn't have to change frames for missions I know are too hard for him. For instance, to maximize iron skin, you must sacrifice roar and stomp, while maximizing stomp and roar sacrifices iron skin. This makes for endgame builds of rhino that are very limiting and boring. Also, his power's synergy suck because they don't work together for the power's purpose, like stomp and charge. Who uses charge for damage? Charging at a enemy in rhino stomp shouldn't increase the damage. It should do something positive, but not that. Only things I'd consider are either making rhino charge deal finisher damage instead of regular damage to enemies in rhino stomp, or in my personal preference, maybe making rhino charge permanently knocking out enemies in rhino stomp's stasis lock. I've seen it happen to warframes from bursas and from enemies being Ragdolled by my Jat Kittag. Add that to rhinos kit and give him some endgame level mechanics. Why does saryn, the DAMAGE frame get power synergy that increases DAMAGE, yet rhino, the CC TANK gets power synergy that increases.....damage? Maximizing saryn, nova, chroma, valkyr, wukong, or trinity doesn't sacrifice many of their powers, and even when maximizing one, the others are still effective, while with rhino, the same cannot be said.

Spoken like a true rhino player. You understand our struggles! >;)

We welcome you in with open arms!

[Zarozian]

On 5/15/2016 at 3:04 AM, AnzeBozic said:

Yeah from first moment i heard this synergy idea on devstream i was all like "NOPE". But they still did it. And at the end it turned out even worse than i thought, because you forgot to mention that charging enemy in stasis also removes stasis effect on him and prevents any stasis effects aplying on him while hes being ragdolled in air. Absolute fail and the sad thing is idk which synergy is the worst in the game, the charge-stomp one or charge-skin one. You know the best thing is to just remove it and replace it by something... anything else. The base and the concept of it is just not good, even if it wouldnt break stasis, and changing it to finisher dmg wont really help that much.

Lets not forget how it made Iron Skin less tanky than it was previously, cause now you gotta sacrifice a power strength mod which reduces iron skin hp and the power of all your other abilities to slap on a maxed Steel Fiber with an Iron Skin that has a crappy multiplier that looks like a poorer baby version of Frost's formula for Snowglobe, all watered down and stuff. Hell you get knocked down during those 3 secs of absorb and those 3 secs don't last long enough to even be effective. >.> Once you get knocked down those three seconds are up lol!

On 5/15/2016 at 3:10 AM, AnzeBozic said:

Yeah i dont think its hatered, more like DEs poor thinking, planing and too little pretesting followed by ignoring feedback so far.

This makes me so angry! >; (

They said they had some dedicated people who will read through all this and finally fix rhino and put him in a great place for good! D:

Also did I mention how crappy his heavy impact passive is? It doesn't even knock down enemies at all! Like you have to be right next to them for it to work and even then it's still a pretty crappy passive, give him something else please. ;<

[Distruco22]

guys...

Rhino can tank really well.

People just don't realize his augments

are NESSACARY

 

[Distruco22]

guys...

Rhino can tank really well.

People just don't realize his augments

are NESSACARY

 

[Zarozian]

1 hour ago, Distruco22 said:

guys...

Rhino can tank really well.

People just don't realize his augments

are NESSACARY

 

The augments shouldn't be necessary for him to do his main job, it's supposed to add utility and alternative, a variety of sorts so that it may be used in a different way than what it's normally used for! >; (

@AnzeBozic This is no laughing matter lad! >; (

[(PSN)Crixus044]

56 minutes ago, Distruco22 said:

guys...

Rhino can tank really well.

People just don't realize his augments

are NESSACARY

 

Why though? Why do augments have to be necessary? I personally am getting sick of Ironclad Charge, because it's not consistent. It sometimes better, and sometimes worse. Chroma is consistent. Inaros is consistent. Valkyr is op......i mean consistent. Wukong is consistent. Trinity is kinda consistent, so Idk why Rhino can't be a consistent tank? Think about it this way. Napalms are considered tank enemies and for good reason, they have the highest ehp for any enemy in game (or close to that). Now look at shield lancers, they are not tanks, but they have a shield that blocks 100% damage, except that take away the shield, they are nothing. Rhino is the same way. He takes some damage, but take away that shield of his, and he barely has more armor than excaliber (his regular form has LESS). Keep in mind that Chroma, Inaros, Wukong, and Valkyr are not even primed yet. Imagine when they are primed. Rhino's prime is in the vault. Also, none of the frames I've mentioned needed augments to become super tanks. 

[Zarozian]

Sadly Rhino doesn't seem to be on the top of their list after Mag & Volt..... =/

[(PSN)Crixus044]

1 hour ago, AnzeBozic said:

Well even valkyr or inaros are not really tanky when we take away theri abilities and so is rhino without iron skin. But yeah the problem here is you need those damn aguments, which take up mod space, to make it strong enough and you still need to always charge enemies to make it work. It should be valid enough on its own, without agument, press 2 and you have some solid protection even when facing higl lv enemies.

Valkyr has 600 base armor, Inaros has 4620 health and can have over 6600 health. Atlas comes in second with 450 armor and then comes Chroma with 350. That is a lot more tanking power than the HEAVIEST warframe in game. Powers aside, Rhino barely out tanks Excalibur and Saryn, even though these frames are dps and cc frames. INAROS HAS MORE ARMOR THAN REGULAR RHINO!!!! AND INAROS ISN'T EVEN PRIMED YET!!!!!

Edited May 26, 2016 by (PS4)Crixus044

[Gurpgork]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

That is a lot more tanking power than the HEAVIEST warframe in game. 

Yeah, that was a line of flavor text written more than three years ago. I'd say that holds about as much water as a fishnet. 

[Doomsong]

Why not replace heavy impact with something less gimicky, easier to balance for future frames, usefull end game and promoting teamplay.

For example: 

Vanguard: Rihino gains vanguard stack every time it revieves an ally or every X. Vanguard stack from revieving a player can't be recieved more offen than Y. Each Vanguard stack increases base armor by Z up to certain value.

 

[Zarozian]

59 minutes ago, Doomsong said:

Why not replace heavy impact with something less gimicky, easier to balance for future frames, usefull end game and promoting teamplay.

For example: 

Vanguard: Rihino gains vanguard stack every time it revieves an ally or every X. Vanguard stack from revieving a player can't be recieved more offen than Y. Each Vanguard stack increases base armor by Z up to certain value.

 

This sounds like it will work well with Vazarin! ;O

[WarGrylls]

U18 has given my Rhino life once again with his current status so I do thank DE for restoring some faith I had loss.

Few gripes I do have, some include, but not limited to, involve:

1.his passive merely being a cute trick for 1v1'ing enemies or shoulder to shoulder tight groups

2. Augments.

3.Iron skin ABSORPTION PHASE being too short.

Going to elaborate a bit on those points and say that a 2nd mild passive that synergies with the heavy impact passive would be interesting. As for the augments point, Ironclad Charge is feeling mandatory and will be likely seen in every serious/endgame-focused build, Iron Shrapnel is a less than promising augment that promotes wasting energy, decreases endgame viability(subjective opinion), and is just for low-mid tier fun, to be blunt, and Piercing Roar has mild to no promise due to mechanics and restrictions of those mechanics, To address point 3, by too short I mean frequently what seems like a key position to Iron Skin is just mild irritation at the fact that the enemy needs to reload or not fire and attempt melee/cc maneuvers and leaving you with a less than satisfied ferrite armor health, three seconds wasted and getting shot at right after the absorb phase is done, and resorting to using the Ironclad Charge augment. I do like the augment mod, don't get me wrong, but it being the answer to, without a doubt, my most "mod strict" build setup ever cheapens the feeling of achievement in having my Rhino Prime being able to be in T3/4 towers, sorties, etc. for longer time periods and facing enemies well passed lv100(I refuse to use Regen Molt on Saryn for the 2nd reason and haven't looked back ). 

EDIT: Tweaks to Iron shrapnel and buff to Piercing Roar will suffice and extend Iron Skin's Absorption Phase by a couple of seconds, if you may/please, in efforts to making Rhino/Prime great again... or at least more viable

The build I made and use is in the spoiler for sharing below. Click the build's title for more information/insight.

 

http://goo.gl/62SyJL 

Hope it helps Rhino fans in any way.

Edited May 26, 2016 by WarGrylls
Added suggestions to be constructive to the topic.

[Zarozian]

@AnzeBozic

I CRIIIII!!!!! T ^T

THERE'S NO SIGN OF RHINO ANYWHERE IN THEIR DEV WORKSHOP!!!! Q ^Q

I CRII ANZEEEE!! WAI NO RHIINO?! T ^T

HE'S NOT IN THERE!!!! T ^T

 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

On 5/26/2016 at 10:03 AM, AnzeBozic said:

I find it intersesting how in community when it comes to stats the armor stat alone seems like the only determinator of how tanky the frame is, while shield and even health (with exeption of inaros) pretty much always get ignored. But i understand why, with all health replenishing that we have offered the armor really becomes more valid than shields. Really wish shields would be more valid later on in game. Either way you are still right, especially normal rhino doesnt really have that tanky stats when comparing to some other frames, rhino prime has it a bit more reasonable but like you said those frames are not primed yet. But i still think they take it too far sometimes, rhino is not THAT A LOT less tanky, which sometimes results in ridicilous stats buff proposes. Also i still dont understand why heaviest frame in game gets speed buff when primed, that buff should really go in tank department. But on other hand what makes frames really tanky is abilities and thats where rhinos iron skin (without slot consuming aguments) fails even more in terems of tankyness.

The reason is that, it will have 1100 shields with redirection, and Shields are not affected by armor. Iron Skin covers shields, which is plane unfair. It makes the use of shields absolutely irrelevant, as much as hysteria Valkyr. If you remember the rework I proposed for rhino, it makes great use of his shields

[Zarozian]

On 5/27/2016 at 3:57 PM, AnzeBozic said:

Yeah i know.

Thats the beauty of it. >:)

Still nothing on Rhino.... =/

[Demlier]

On 13.12.2015 at 4:59 AM, Zarozian said:

Plus melee mods should of definitely applied to the charge attack~

 

And it should of locked on to enemies like Atlas's landslide.

 

 

Also give Rhino like 700 Armor.

I agree to the atlas landslide mechanic should be given to the rhino's charge but the armor is well...too big i'ts enought he allready have iron skin maybe this is not so op as old days but stil it is somekind of armor

[TheHUNKMrDeath]

That what makes rhino charge usefull. You do not require an enemy to use this ability, thus you have possibility of choosing skill role.

[Nulak]

Nothing to do with "balance" stuff but i miss my Iron Skin look with my palatine armor :(  DE decide to change the way it looks when Iron Skin is up because ppl complained ... Well i wish we could have the option to choose btw the 2. 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

4 hours ago, Nulak said:

Nothing to do with "balance" stuff but i miss my Iron Skin look with my palatine armor :(  DE decide to change the way it looks when Iron Skin is up because ppl complained ... Well i wish we could have the option to choose btw the 2. 

I actually agree with this, because I wish I could have both, depending on my mood. Sometimes, I like gold, sometimes, I like the energy glowing clear.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

1 hour ago, AnzeBozic said:

 

If you ask me, no matter what DE does with iron skins look there always be a bounch of ppl who wont like it.

People just don't like to be limited. That's all.

[Zarozian]

On 6/2/2016 at 1:01 PM, TheHUNKMrDeath said:

That what makes rhino charge usefull. You do not require an enemy to use this ability, thus you have possibility of choosing skill role.

 

On 6/2/2016 at 1:37 PM, AnzeBozic said:

Exactly. Also i dont feel like stopping once i reach one enemy. >:)

Well what I had in mind is that he could still use it, even without an enemy nearby.

Just that when there's an enemy nearby, he will lock on to it and gore its &amp;#&#33; into mist. o 3o!

[(PSN)Crixus044]

17 hours ago, Zarozian said:

 

Well what I had in mind is that he could still use it, even without an enemy nearby.

Just that when there's an enemy nearby, he will lock on to it and gore its &amp;#&#33; into mist. o 3o!

Well, we have three prevaling theories. I say Rhino Charge should be a clobbering charge slighty faster than sprint speed that makes him invincible and knockdown eenemies, but doesn't use weapons. like this.

Then there's the idea that it should be like slash dash or landslide, which is great and all, but it does take away from the cc ability of the power, and it ruins the ironclad charge mechanic, since he'll lock on to one target instead of charging into hordes.

Finally, there's the idea that it should remain the same, which I also support, but I would like something with a bit more spunk than just a simple dash.