Rhino Changes Feedback [U18 Megathread]

[(PSN)Daikon177]

When you use iron clad charge or buff your armor by any means, like syndicate weapon abilities or war cry, and activate iron skin with those buffs you get a much stonger iron skin and even though when you check your ability stats after the buffs have worn off your iron skin still has all that buffed health, minus what damage you have taken of course but the stats for iron skin you see in your ability menu is the stats for what it would be if you cast it right then.

[Nulak]

Ahh i see just the UI that do not show the real value after the buff worn off.  So my post is useless gonna update it. 

Edited February 10, 2016 by Nulak

[NogginMasher]

I have some beef w/ Rhino and his augments.

His augments are stupendously useful. REALLY, REALLY USEFUL.

So gosh darn useful, DE should've made them part of Rhino's kit by default.

 

Take ironclad charge

Buffs armor by 50% for 10 secs for every enemy hit by rhino charge

Absolutely amazing synergy with iron skin.

Example

w/o ironclad buff

 

w/ ironclad buff

(I swapped intensify for blind rage, went from 195% str to 246%, but the build is otherwise identical)

Ironclad buffed iron skin by +1400%. +1400% You don't make a mod that buffs a skill by 1400% and think for a second that is optional. That mod is absolutely essential, and effectively takes away a mod slot if you want iron skin to be useful at all.

 

The annoying thing is rhino charge is absolutely useless w/o ironclad charge's buff effect. The damage on rhino charge is miserable, does not scale w/ melee mods, and the CC is made utterly redundant by rhino stomp. And b/c rhino charge's distance scales w/ range instead of duration now (which honestly makes sense), the mobility is just not as good as it was in the old days. Think about it, when's the last time you used rhino charge w/o ironclad on? It's just crap, bake ironclad charge into it so it has some use on its own.

 

Iron shrapnel augment

This augment is really cool. It lets you recast iron skin, and blows up the previous layer in a nice AOE explosion. It's really useful, too useful. Ironclad charge + Iron shrapnel is an amazing combo, letting you take advantage of ironclad's buffs at all times, and recast iron skin on demand. Running around w/ 5% iron skin is no fun, and charging into a mob and getting a 500% armor buff that you can't even use b/c you have 5% iron skin still on is absolutely no fun. The two augments are too useful to be considered optional, make them part of rhino's kit!

 

Piercing roar augment

Okay, this one is crap. Just ignore it.

 

NEW IDEA!

Make ironclad charge a permanent feature for rhino charge

Make iron skin recastable by default

Make roar recastable by default (just sticking this one in there b/c that would be a really nice feature)

 

Augment changes

Rhino charge augment --> enemies hit by rhino charge contribute to the melee combo counter (useful, nice, but NOT mandatory)

 

Iron skin augment --> recasting iron skin (a now permanent feature ^) makes previous iron skin explode (same as what we have now, only difference being iron skin is recastable by default)

 

Roar augment --> ally damage is now buffed by 30% (instead of current 50%), but reload speed, accuracy, casting speed, and knockdown recovery speed are also buffed by 30%. (change the skill around a bit to give QoL buffs too, useful but not mandatory)

 

 

 

Augments should never be band-aids to fix bad skills (ironclad charge), should not be absolutely mandatory (ironclad charge, iron shrapnel) and should be somewhat useful so we actually think about using them (piercing roar).

[Monster-T]

I have some beef w/ Rhino and his augments.

His augments are stupendously useful. REALLY, REALLY USEFUL.

So gosh darn useful, DE should've made them part of Rhino's kit by default.

 

Take ironclad charge

Buffs armor by 50% for 10 secs for every enemy hit by rhino charge

Absolutely amazing synergy with iron skin.

Example

w/o ironclad buff

 

w/ ironclad buff

(I swapped intensify for blind rage, went from 195% str to 246%, but the build is otherwise identical)

Ironclad buffed iron skin by +1400%. +1400% You don't make a mod that buffs a skill by 1400% and think for a second that is optional. That mod is absolutely essential, and effectively takes away a mod slot if you want iron skin to be useful at all.

 

The annoying thing is rhino charge is absolutely useless w/o ironclad charge's buff effect. The damage on rhino charge is miserable, does not scale w/ melee mods, and the CC is made utterly redundant by rhino stomp. And b/c rhino charge's distance scales w/ range instead of duration now (which honestly makes sense), the mobility is just not as good as it was in the old days. Think about it, when's the last time you used rhino charge w/o ironclad on? It's just crap, bake ironclad charge into it so it has some use on its own.

 

Iron shrapnel augment

This augment is really cool. It lets you recast iron skin, and blows up the previous layer in a nice AOE explosion. It's really useful, too useful. Ironclad charge + Iron shrapnel is an amazing combo, letting you take advantage of ironclad's buffs at all times, and recast iron skin on demand. Running around w/ 5% iron skin is no fun, and charging into a mob and getting a 500% armor buff that you can't even use b/c you have 5% iron skin still on is absolutely no fun. The two augments are too useful to be considered optional, make them part of rhino's kit!

 

Piercing roar augment

Okay, this one is crap. Just ignore it.

 

NEW IDEA!

Make ironclad charge a permanent feature for rhino charge

Make iron skin recastable by default

Make roar recastable by default (just sticking this one in there b/c that would be a really nice feature)

 

Augment changes

Rhino charge augment --> enemies hit by rhino charge contribute to the melee combo counter (useful, nice, but NOT mandatory)

 

Iron skin augment --> recasting iron skin (a now permanent feature ^) makes previous iron skin explode (same as what we have now, only difference being iron skin is recastable by default)

 

Roar augment --> ally damage is now buffed by 30% (instead of current 50%), but reload speed, accuracy, casting speed, and knockdown recovery speed are also buffed by 30%. (change the skill around a bit to give QoL buffs too, useful but not mandatory)

 

 

 

Augments should never be band-aids to fix bad skills (ironclad charge), should not be absolutely mandatory (ironclad charge, iron shrapnel) and should be somewhat useful so we actually think about using them (piercing roar).

This!

[Nulak]

Good post NogginMasher

[(XBOX)Lion Harbinger]

Now I wonder why in the world did DE start a thread to just blow it off. Seems like they are saying" these are all great ideas but we are done with this frame" to me a bit. I mean there is no offensive tank frame in the game right now. There's a unbreakable ice wall and unkillable dragon and a female berserker that has a mean grudge to deal with. Just wish they get the big guy more love amount all the other frames.

[NogginMasher]

Now I wonder why in the world did DE start a thread to just blow it off. Seems like they are saying" these are all great ideas but we are done with this frame" to me a bit. I mean there is no offensive tank frame in the game right now. There's a unbreakable ice wall and unkillable dragon and a female berserker that has a mean grudge to deal with. Just wish they get the big guy more love amount all the other frames.

We gotta stay on topic, and God I hope DE is reading this. If someone notices DE saying anything about Rhino, please post it here. Otherwise, stay on topic about rhino feedback.

 

P.S. I don't like the silence either, but I don't want this thread getting locked.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Played Rhino a lot since the "rework". He's as useless as before. Charge does cosmetic damage and weak CC. Iron Skin marginally better than before. Roar is useless because range and liw damage buff. Stomp is laughable as ult. Unfortunately, Rhino belong to other garbage frames, that have no place in sorties.

U must sip pink lemonade and eat crumpets while getting a seaweed wrap. Cuz rhino is excellent endgame now. I can run lvl 100 sorties and only have to pop iron skin 3 or 4 times the whole mission. If thats garbage, then your a pink polka-dot bunny with jelly bean ears.

All rhino needs is a higher base armor and a bit more dmg output.

Edited February 12, 2016 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[(PSN)Daikon177]

U must sip pink lemonade and eat crumpets while getting a seaweed wrap. Cuz rhino is excellent endgame now. I can run lvl 100 sorties and only have to pop iron skin 3 or 4 times the whole mission. If thats garbage, then your a pink polka-dot bunny with jelly bean ears.

All rhino needs is a higher base armor and a bit more dmg output.

And to be able to recast iron skin. Its a no brainer change. His damage output is fine imo, roar does the job.

[NogginMasher]

Give rhino a few buffs here and there, as mentioned dozens of times in this thread, and he is in great shape. I've taken him to sorties, nightmare missions and hour long void survivals, he does just fine, as long as you put on his augments (see previous comments).

[(XBOX)Lion Harbinger]

I'm going to have to agree with nogginmasher on this. Rhino is a beast...with his augments not on his own. His augments should add flare or a nice trait to abilities not make the abilities work the way they should be working. Plus he's a juggernaut as it stand, without those augment mods he can't stand in the thick of a fight, that's an issue for a frame that should thrive in that environment. Plus his skills really don't mix well. I mean bad in the day he was a true tank, to hard to kill and covering you when you needed it. Besides what Noggin said I think the only thing I would like is Roar to aggro enemies. Turning all fire on yourself to charge iron skin or get them closer for stomp in a plus.

[Nulak]

U must sip pink lemonade and eat crumpets while getting a seaweed wrap. Cuz rhino is excellent endgame now. I can run lvl 100 sorties and only have to pop iron skin 3 or 4 times the whole mission. If thats garbage, then your a pink polka-dot bunny with jelly bean ears.

All rhino needs is a higher base armor and a bit more dmg output.

 

Without augment, your "higher base armor" Rhino will have his IS popout in 15 hits whatever ur base armor is. With over 7k ferrite armor with IS on, it won't last a bit. So you need to go with ironclad to create at least a 30k + ferrite armor. 

And this is fine but it force Rhino to sacrifice more mods to keep Roar + Rhino skin useful in high lv content. And that means a lack of efficiency, range and/or %life. Running a maximized armor rhino build usually means you gonna sit on a 450 shield / 300 health and thats really dangerous until you are buff.

And to be buff you need charge a pack of mobs so have the energy to do a successful charge + use ironskin. Kinda difficult in some situation. 

Edited February 16, 2016 by Nulak

[NogginMasher]

Without augment, your "higher base armor" Rhino will have his IS popout in 15 hits whatever ur base armor is. With over 7k ferrite armor with IS on, it won't last a bit. So you need to go with ironclad to create at least a 30k + ferrite armor. 

And this is fine but it force Rhino to sacrifice more mods to keep Roar + Rhino skin useful in high lv content. And that means a lack of efficiency, range and/or %life. Running a maximized armor rhino build usually means you gonna sit on a 450 shield / 300 health and thats really dangerous until you are buff.

And to be buff you need charge a pack of mobs so have the energy to do a successful charge + use ironskin. Kinda difficult in some situation. 

Rhino effectively has to sacrifice 3 mod slots just for iron skin to be viable. Armor + Ironclad Charge + Iron Shrapnel all to make just iron skin useful, ignoring the rest of his skills. Rhino may be in a good spot, but his build sure isn't.

[Zarozian]

So when is this all going to happen?

[dodyouserious]

still nothing is happening 

[(PSN)Daikon177]

Yeah i wouldnt hold my breath. 19 pages and more than two months of feedback and not one staff reply that i can recall. Feels kinda like this thread is just to keep the rhino feedback here so they can ignore it and move on to other frames. I dont think thats true but it kinda feels like it.

Edited February 17, 2016 by (PS4)DA_HEFF_

[NogginMasher]

Yeah i wouldnt hold my breath. 19 pages and more than two months of feedback and not one staff reply that i can recall. Feels kinda like this thread is just to keep the rhino feedback here so they can ignore it and move on to other frames. I dont think thats true but it kinda feels like it.

Keep bumping the thread every now and then, or start a new topic. Don't want this feedback to go unnoticed.

[dodyouserious]

must keep this into the top of the jungle 

[Djego27]

While my opinion was a few pages back and more on the positive site, I did run 2 L100 sorti grenier survival with rino, just looking at the thread.

I did the same mission with my nova prime in comparison(3 runs 1 nova, 2 rino) to get something comparable.

Overall I do agree with Nugginmasher, that Rino needs to much augment mods for stuff that should be the basic ability and support mods to really tank high level damage. This has little to do with new player rinos going down left, right and centre in the sorti next to me, even I went down 2 times with my zero HP mods and just playing a fully team focused buff/CC rino.

If you can't recast iron skin there goes your survivability, yet it is locked behind a augment(you should never play rino at high levels without it, it should be part of the ability since it gives you at least some control over your tanking). Next thing is Ironclad it is just to vital, this should be the base ability and the augment should add proper multi target hits to make the stacking process faster and add to CC.

While with Frost, you could stay Icewaveimpedance makes or breaks the duration build infinite level Frost(still the only way to go after the snow globe rework), it is just one augment mod and it is as required as despoil, however having a frame with multiple "required" augment mods is not ok, since takes away a lot of options for team buffing with roar or AOE CC with stomp.

Iron skin should be recast able by the basic skill and there should be befits from combining it with charge, same as with roar without putting 2 augment mods on the frame that is already in a situation where you need everything(duration, range, strength, efficiency) to have a good roar/stomp to be a useful utility frame choice at high levels.

As it is Nova is the much better choice and while nova is one of the most powerful CC frames in the game it should not be outright the better choice.then Rino with the stomp, roar and tanking does have a lot of things going for it, however this is not really that good if you can't combine them. The pure roar\stomp rino tanks as good as a QT nova(assuming you use at least Iron shrapnel), while contributing less to the team.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Djego27

[KnightCole]

On 2/12/2016 at 5:21 PM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

U must sip pink lemonade and eat crumpets while getting a seaweed wrap. Cuz rhino is excellent endgame now. I can run lvl 100 sorties and only have to pop iron skin 3 or 4 times the whole mission. If thats garbage, then your a pink polka-dot bunny with jelly bean ears.

All rhino needs is a higher base armor and a bit more dmg output.

For sure, I so wish his 4 was an actual ultimate that really made you feel like you actually just kicked the enemy right in his &#!.  I wish his 1 actually had a satisfying ending to bullrushing 1 ton of steel into an enemies face, pretty much 1 shotting them.  I wish his Heavy IMpact did more, maybe a nice AoE based off your melee weapon or something....

Also more armor?  Yes please.  More like 500 base armor instead of w/e it is now.  Then, add an additional part to Iron Skin, that while active, he takes no health damage as well...stupid &#! infested killing me through my shields and S#&$. 

[Zarozian]

On 2/17/2016 at 6:06 AM, xvxjiniwai said:

still nothing is happening 

Stuff needs to happen. >.>

[Daikon_177]

Gotta keep this thing goin. I know there focused on fixing other stuff but it would be nice to hear something from a dev about this

[NogginMasher]

Stay on topic, whining about DE usually doesn't work. 

We should come up with a short list of demands requests for rhino changes. I'll start.

Make ironclad charge a permanent feature

Make iron skin and roar recast-able by default

Replace ironclad charge augment and piercing roar augment with something new and useful, NOT mandatory 

buff rhino (prime) base armor modestly, to 450 levels

swap out useless passive for something useful

 

That's my two cents, what else would you guys suggest?

[TheHUNKMrDeath]

His passive: Some procentage of his armor affects shields.

That's my suggestion.

 

[Zarozian]

I dunno I pretty much threw everything I had about Rhino into this thread these past two months.

I guess I would like a vanguard helmet remodel? Make it more V-shaped