Why I Dislike The New Quest/tenno Thing (Spoilers)

[Morec0]

if that's what you think then none of that 1600 hours was spent paying attention to any of the lore.  The ground work for this reveal has been lay and set for a LONG time.

 

No. The groundwork - real, solid, "this is where this is going" groundwork - for THIS reveal literally came in two months before it with this "Somatic Link" nonsense. The Rhino Prime Codex HINTED at some greater connection between Warframe and Tenno, but something of this kind of level? Literally over LIGHTYEARS it works?

 

No. No this is a new revelation, a new choice of path. And it's NOT a good one.

[Kaisty]

if that's what you think then none of that 1600 hours was spent paying attention to any of the lore.  The ground work for this reveal has been lay and set for a LONG time.

It was hinted at and even back then, DE didn't know where to go with it due to conflicting lore between primes and other characters in the codex. We knew about the kids, but didn't know they would remain kids or if our Tenno were the same set of children. Add to it all the speculation people had and how long it took DE to just choose a route and this is what you get.

 

They decided to go this route knowing there would be folks who wouldn't like it. No matter what either sides of the debate say (Approval, Disproval, Apathetic) you will always have folks who either love the quests DE makes, hate them, or just don't care so long as they have stuff to do.

[KorbanGado]

Want to know my NEW favorite quote?

 

When you're fighting Captain Vor:

 

"Keep talking... we're still trying to figure out how dumb you are."

 

.... REALLY?

 

And a LOT of this isn't DE's fault, the voice actors they got just give SUCH wooden performances. There's ZERO life in them at all. Honestly, it would have just been better to keep the Tenno silent.

 

And, and before anyone quotes me and tries to say "you can just turn them off in the menu", that's not that point. The fact DE wrote this and put this in the game indicates that THIS is what they picture the Tenno being like. THIS is what the Tenno act like. THIS is the great warrior race that defeated the Sentients, destroyed the Orokin Empire, and then fought to contain the Infestation's Great Plague... It's SO. PAINFULLY. BAD. And, I'm sorry, but NO amount of BEAUTIFUL, WELL DONE ARTISTRY of a quest quest can POSSIBLY make up for what they turned the Tenno into.

 

Second Dream was AWESOME by EVERY possible definition.

 

The revelation and how DE's decided to treat their main characters is NOT.

Thought your post made me think:

Theoretically speaking, Stalker should essentially be the same setup as the player (theoretically) - yet Stalker does not speak in a childish manner. That being said, it also feels like Stalker has been "awake" far longer than us, so could this whole "sound/act like kids" bit simply be because they are freshly awakened?

I wonder where Stalker's operator is. He seems to remember us being traitors, so he's had to be around for quite some time now - at the very least his warframe must have been around for a long time. I wonder if he even has an operator, or if his frame has just developed a will of it's own and the operator dead and withered in some pod somewhere.

[Morec0]

It was hinted at and even back then, DE didn't know where to go with it due to conflicting lore between primes and other characters in the codex. We knew about the kids, but didn't know they would remain kids or if our Tenno were the same set of children. Add to it all the speculation people had and how long it took DE to just choose a route and this is what you get.

 

They decided to go this route knowing there would be folks who wouldn't like it. No matter what either sides of the debate say (Approval, Disproval, Apathetic) you will always have folks who either love the quests DE makes, hate them, or just don't care so long as they have stuff to do.

 

The worst thing about this, though: I DO love the quest. It's BEAUTIFUL. It's cutscenes and scores should be held up as art within the video game medium... It's just the damn reveal - and even then more the fact we're controlling our Warframes from a distance - that I HATE.

 

 

Thought your post made me think:

Theoretically speaking, Stalker should essentially be the same setup as the player (theoretically) - yet Stalker does not speak in a childish manner. That being said, it also feels like Stalker has been "awake" far longer than us, so could this whole "sound/act like kids" bit simply be because they are freshly awakened?

I wonder where Stalker's operator is. He seems to remember us being traitors, so he's had to be around for quite some time now - at the very least his warframe must have been around for a long time. I wonder if he even has an operator, or if his frame has just developed a will of it's own and the operator dead and withered in some pod somewhere.

 

But they aren't freshly awakened, though. They've been active for some time. If we're to believe that ALL this time the Tenno ACTUALLY and TRULY thought that they were the Warframes, then we have to accept that they SHOULD have been changed by everything going through them and been conscious enough to go through everything they have.

 

Stalker indeed didn't got into Cryosleep, and as for Stalker's Operator I don't think he has one. Stalker seems to be something else entirely, having gone mad from the revelation of the Reseviour a LONG time ago. Hunhow voices his thoughts for us at the finale "you're thinking: was I once one of these wretched things? I doesn't matter, you still hate them". Plus there's the whole matter of the fact that Stalker can interact very easily with the Sentients, implying, at least to me, that there is ZERO Void energy within him.

 

I think Stalker is one of two things:

 

1) A Warframe that gained is own sentience after the death of its Operator.

 

2) An Operator that was trapped within his Warframe when he died while piloting it.

[LightstealKnight]

It was hinted at and even back then, DE didn't know where to go with it due to conflicting lore between primes and other characters in the codex. We knew about the kids, but didn't know they would remain kids or if our Tenno were the same set of children. Add to it all the speculation people had and how long it took DE to just choose a route and this is what you get.

 

They decided to go this route knowing there would be folks who wouldn't like it. No matter what either sides of the debate say (Approval, Disproval, Apathetic) you will always have folks who either love the quests DE makes, hate them, or just don't care so long as they have stuff to do.

 

You are absolutely wrong.  Steve and Scott had this vision since introducing the Codex.  The most notable entries are Ember Prime, Excalibur, and Rhino Prime.

[UrielColtan]

You are absolutely wrong.  Steve and Scott had this vision since introducing the Codex.  The most notable entries are Ember Prime, Excalibur, and Rhino Prime.

 

You must be a newer player.

I'd say thats only marginally true in the case of the Rhino Prime entry.

I certainly don't believe they had this planned since the inception of the codex, its pretty clear at that time they had not settled on making Tenno merely be kids who puppet around dolls, they were going more with the original concept for Dark

Sector, which was indeed, a person donning a suit.

 

The Excal codex didn't support this notion about puppeteer children whatsoever, which was first, nor did streams at the time, or prior, infer this. What the other poster said about Ember codex is pretty spot on. Ember codex is from 1000+ years ago before Tenno were even established, it didn't have to mean that they would still be kids, and it mentioned nothing about puppeting around dolls. It could be inferred at the time that they would be put into suits, as the Excal codex seemed to suggest,

 

As for the Rhino prime lore entry, that was just put in last November, and quite open to interpretation at the time, though the idea of puppeting a doll, conflicted with the idea that Tenno were in these suits, which was what had been suggested for the longest. Devs treated them like that in streams, Lotus had us doing missions and events to save cryo frozen Tenno, not dolls. Lotus said Zanuka was made from the bodies of fallen Tenno, not simply Warframe parts. The Waframes were described as suits since the inception of the game, one of their slogans became "Suit to Kill" another was "Suit up", even Excal's codex plain entry, calls it a suit.

Shoot, the introduction page on this site calls the Warframes "exo-armor". The very name of "warframe" is derived from the concept of military combat exo- armor.

Edited December 15, 2015 by UrielColtan

[GhostLacuna]

You are absolutely wrong.  Steve and Scott had this vision since introducing the Codex.  The most notable entries are Ember Prime, Excalibur, and Rhino Prime.

 

Nova was created by the tenno council and then that part of the description was dropped from the game since it interfered with the ability to make a nova prime.

 

We have had entries changed on all weapon classes, mods and warframes from day one.

 

So no the lore has never been clear cut to the players since it has evolved and changed over time since the game was released.

 

Embers bio entry hinted at children yes but that was a entry from the past and never gave us any indication if that was one child. many children or if they stayed children or grew up.

 

So until the conclusion of the second dream it was never a done deal.

 

For all we know DE  could allow the children to mature in later quests if that is what their vision has in store for the warframe universe.

 

We simply do not know.

 

Also the official about the game still refers to the warframes as armor

 

They were called Tenno. Warriors of blade and gun: masters of the Warframe armor. Those that survived the old war were left drifting among the ruins. Now they are needed once more.

The Grineer, with their vast armies, are spreading throughout the solar system. A call echoes across the stars summoning the Tenno to an ancient place. They summon you.

Allow the Lotus to guide you. She has rescued you from your cryostasis chamber and given you a chance to survive. The Grineer will find you; you must be prepared. The Lotus will teach you the ways of the Warframes and the secrets to unlocking their powers.

 

Come Tenno, you must join the war.

 

So yeah even in the official about the game text its not clear at all. 

[Agentcheese]

I'm not trying to be mean or anything here - because I'm legitimately curious - but did you really quit the game soley because of how the story played out or is it just a mix of things? I mean, I could see quitting the game because after years of getting bullied by RNGesus you got this story element that you couldn't stand by and the actual game elements (controls/play) just don't resonate with you anymore. I mean, heck, I took a huge break back before they pulled Loki from the starter pool just because the grind got to me and I needed a break (although I wouldn't say I quit per say).

 

 

Yes it is just the story. I loved the gameplay from the very start and parkor 2.0 was something I ended up liking as well.

 

my hate purely stems from the new operator and their new lines.

 

I cannot stand them that much that I have quit the game because of them.

 

 

also no offence taken at all. I can tell you weren't trying to be mean at all.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Agentcheese

[UrielColtan]

Space Ninja in sleek exo suit armor was not good enough for the job apparently, needed Wesley Crusher to spice things up.

Probably Christoph's idea.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2015 by UrielColtan

[StabbyTentacles]

It really boggles the mind when you way up both fictional options, (with a rational mind that is.)

 

Sleek-space-ninja in exo armour vs Space-doll-puppet, and Wesley Crusher. 

[AwAveZ]

Its Medic Boss all over again, plus we have Psycho Mantis powers, huh

[GhostLacuna]

Space Ninja in sleek exo suit armor was not good enough for the job apparently, needed Wesley Crusher to spice things up.

Probably Christoph's idea.

 

 

 

Well Christoph never had any good ideas. 

 

Natah might think the kiddos are fine but i am not letting my little daycare child drive until its at least 18 i dont trust the kid to not scratch up ordis. 

 

Besides the kid need to gain some experience before it let him out. 

 

Teshin is composing a starter fitness guide for him to follow. 

 

Still not sure if maroo was such a great idea as a guide to how the world works :P

[Satsuki]

The Warframes aren't without a sense of self; a point that DE has (I dare say intentionally) demonstrated very clearly. So it's not as if we've been shoehorned into 'You are not the Warframe, you are the Tenno' following the events of Second Dream. Remember that the Tenno was immobilised and completely at the mercy of the Stalker right at the end, at which point the Warframe summoned the will to destroy the blade of its own volition out of desire to save its master.

If anything this actually adds to the character of the Warframes, and demonstrates that they are still the silent, stoic and loyal warriors we've always known them to be. Only that now there is another entity, an intermediary if you like, that closes the link between the Warframes and the Lotus.

I like to think DE deliberately chose to demonstrate that the Warframes have a sense of self in order to leave the choice to the players.

So what does that mean? Simple.

You choose to be the Tenno guiding the hand of the Warframes, or you choose to be the Warframes that live to protect and carry out the will of their master. If anything, we were already doing this before in servitude to the Lotus. Now there's just another link in the chain.

[Frostbite6900]

I wish DE can make it a win win situation where the frame was controlled by 2 separate entity, the player and the operator(tenno). Since the operator act like our assistant that keep remind us what to do LOL.

[SilentMobius]

No. The groundwork - real, solid, "this is where this is going" groundwork - for THIS reveal literally came in two months before it with this "Somatic Link" nonsense. The Rhino Prime Codex HINTED at some greater connection between Warframe and Tenno, but something of this kind of level? Literally over LIGHTYEARS it works?

No. No this is a new revelation, a new choice of path. And it's NOT a good one.

To be fair we already have the idea that in the void real-space distance is almost irrelevant. The sentients and the Tau system have most certainly been telegraphed for a long time and with that the notion that a "Solar rail" using the void can easily send ships to Tau in seconds wasn't far behind.

Edited December 15, 2015 by SilentMobius

[SilentMobius]

The Warframes aren't without a sense of self; a point that DE has (I dare say intentionally) demonstrated very clearly. 

 

I would challenge this and say that there isn't, IMHO any example of Warframes acting in any way independently that doesn't have a much simpler explanation that is better supported with information we already have.

 

I'd also point out that people clinging onto their headcanon (I.E. independent Warframes) is what caused a lot of this fan-grief in the first place. So I would strongly suggest people avoid adopting exotic assumption and running with them as canon.

 

Right here right now _everyone_ in-game assumes/knows Warframes are puppets/golems/etc, I suggest the players do the same, subject to reliable contrary information.

Edited December 15, 2015 by SilentMobius

[EmptyDevil]

Stalker indeed didn't got into Cryosleep, and as for Stalker's Operator I don't think he has one. Stalker seems to be something else entirely, having gone mad from the revelation of the Reseviour a LONG time ago. Hunhow voices his thoughts for us at the finale "you're thinking: was I once one of these wretched things? I doesn't matter, you still hate them". Plus there's the whole matter of the fact that Stalker can interact very easily with the Sentients, implying, at least to me, that there is ZERO Void energy within him.

 

I think Stalker is one of two things:

 

1) A Warframe that gained is own sentience after the death of its Operator.

 

2) An Operator that was trapped within his Warframe when he died while piloting it.

 

I'm not sure where people are getting the Stalker-is-a-rogue-frame or his-Operator-is-dead theories but, The Second Dream made it clear to me that he is a Tenno. He is stuck in his dream(nightmare based on perspective) or very likely refuses to come out of it because he identifies as his frame.

 

Hunhow said "All your dread-long life, you've waited for this moment... but you're asking yourself... Was i one of these wretched things? You know the answer. You still hate them... you still hate... yourself." This whole line implies that Stalker is still a Tenno.

 

His interaction with the Sentients only goes as far as working with them and later being controlled by Hunhow, possibly through the weapon and Pakal armor. Stalker isn't radiating the Void from his Warframe but, he can use it's energies through his Warframe. The Sentients need to be awash with Void energy or attacked with it to experience harm.

[Morec0]

I'm not sure where people are getting the Stalker-is-a-rogue-frame or his-Operator-is-dead theories but, The Second Dream made it clear to me that he is a Tenno. He is stuck in his dream(nightmare based on perspective) or very likely refuses to come out of it because he identifies as his frame.

 

Hunhow said "All your dread-long life, you've waited for this moment... but you're asking yourself... Was i one of these wretched things? You know the answer. You still hate them... you still hate... yourself." This whole line implies that Stalker is still a Tenno.

 

His interaction with the Sentients only goes as far as working with them and later being controlled by Hunhow, possibly through the weapon and Pakal armor. Stalker isn't radiating the Void from his Warframe but, he can use it's energies through his Warframe. The Sentients need to be awash with Void energy or attacked with it to experience harm.

 

Ah, good point...

 

Which only raises the question: why the HELL don't we pull him out of his pod and kill him? So he can't hunt any more Tenno? I mean he KNOWS where they are now, it's not like we're suddenly safe.

[SilentMobius]

Nova was created by the tenno council and then that part of the description was dropped from the game since it interfered with the ability to make a nova prime.

 

You are mistaken, Nova prime explicitly mentions the council. The players simply _assumed_ that a "Tenno Council" must place Nova "post Cryo", the players assumed incorrectly, DE changed nothing, the players were simply wrong.

 

Yet another example of players making an assumption then claiming its "true" and complaining when it's illustrated as an incorrect assumption, all the while claiming that DE doesn't know their own lore.

Edited December 15, 2015 by SilentMobius

[LightstealKnight]

Ok just for future reference,

 

The Warframes are still considered Suits of Armor, they house the "power" of the Tenno.

And yes, most cryo-chambers house Tenno, you can use clipping to sneak a peak inside.

 

Even in the old Alad V cinematic, you see him cutting up Warframes and there is no blood or remorse for "killing" anything.

The Warframes are immune to the Infested Disease, which shows why Alad V tried to modify it to affect "robots"

And Warframes are immune to the mind-control of the Void's Neural Control Defense.

 

These are also not children, D.E. has just come out and made them over 1000 years old.

 

The Excal Codex is spot on.  It Says:  "We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first."

 

"A conduit of their affliction"

 

Websters Dictionary for Conduit:

4

:  a means of transmitting or distributing <a conduit for illicit payments> <a conduit of information>

 

Then there is what Ordis says: "Do not lift the veil, do not show the door, do not split the dream"

Edited December 15, 2015 by Enemy1

[LightstealKnight]

Yes it is just the story. I loved the gameplay from the very start and parkor 2.0 was something I ended up liking as well.

 

my hate purely stems from the new operator and their new lines.

 

I cannot stand them that much that I have quit the game because of them.

 

 

also no offence taken at all. I can tell you weren't trying to be mean at all.

 

Something the Stalker could have said ^^

[Pavelord]

Ah, good point...

 

Which only raises the question: why the HELL don't we pull him out of his pod and kill him? So he can't hunt any more Tenno? I mean he KNOWS where they are now, it's not like we're suddenly safe.

Now we know he is a tenno, codex entries position him, as one who found his way of life and honor in serving the orokin and member of a group to that end: the lower guardians. Could it be that the lower guardians were a faction of the tenno that were content to serve the orokin, a faction that the Lotus would not trust to carry actions against the orokin and a faction the Lotus would not hide in the moon with the rest of her tenno. Stalker mentioned he wasn't the only one that walked the desolate earth while we slept.

 

I would say it is likely that as soon as the moon drop from the void, all the rest of the warframes came for their operators, and brought their orbiters compartments from the void (mention by ordis), this is when the stalker attack us in the ship and confirm by the presence of the Lotus, a sentient that can't be in the void. Now the orbiters are back hidden in the void and we are safe from him.

[Morec0]

Now we know he is a tenno, codex entries position him, as one who found his way of life and honor in serving the orokin and member of a group to that end: the lower guardians. Could it be that the lower guardians were a faction of the tenno that were content to serve the orokin, a faction that the Lotus would not trust to carry actions against the orokin and a faction the Lotus would not hide in the moon with the rest of her tenno. Stalker mentioned he wasn't the only one that walked the desolate earth while we slept.

 

I would say it is likely that as soon as the moon drop from the void, all the rest of the warframes came for their operators, and brought their orbiters compartments from the void (mention by ordis), this is when the stalker attack us in the ship and confirm by the presence of the Lotus, a sentient that can't be in the void. Now the orbiters are back hidden in the void and we are safe from him.

 

That answers HALF of the question... but, still: why the hell DON'T WE UNPLUG HIM! Okay, we're safe from him in the Void... he's STILL coming after our Warframes, and has been established we CAN lose the Warframes (and if Hidden Messages is AT ALL canon at this point the death of a Warframe CAN mean the death of a Tenno as well). So why the hell aren't we unplugging him and stopping all of the risk?

 

It's not like he's the Queens or Board and his death would result in a power struggle - he'll he's just a subservient factor to the Sentients now.

[KorbanGado]

But they aren't freshly awakened, though. They've been active for some time. If we're to believe that ALL this time the Tenno ACTUALLY and TRULY thought that they were the Warframes, then we have to accept that they SHOULD have been changed by everything going through them and been conscious enough to go through everything they have.

I meant in relative to the quest (in which we get popped from the dream), but I get what your saying.

 

Yes it is just the story. I loved the gameplay from the very start and parkor 2.0 was something I ended up liking as well.

 

my hate purely stems from the new operator and their new lines.

 

I cannot stand them that much that I have quit the game because of them.

 

 

also no offence taken at all. I can tell you weren't trying to be mean at all.

Thanks for answering. I mean, even when the game upsets me I find I keep coming back to it because I enjoy the gameplay behind it (although I did rage quit it the one night because of that terrible RNG giving me a credit cache on a 40 minute t4 survival), so hopefully in the long run you can come back and enjoy it like you used to.

 

I'm not sure where people are getting the Stalker-is-a-rogue-frame or his-Operator-is-dead theories but, The Second Dream made it clear to me that he is a Tenno. He is stuck in his dream(nightmare based on perspective) or very likely refuses to come out of it because he identifies as his frame.

That may have just been me and my loud thinking that caused that, moreso than a large outbreak of hivemind :P

It's funny sometimes, because what started as just "Stalker doesn't sound like a kid when he talks" somehow started me thinking conspiracies about how suddenly stalker could be some rouge Guyver getting boosted up by dreadful bullet-sponge robots from the 5th dimension whose sole purpose is to dominate everything in some evil secret plan that's destined to get foiled by a bunch of kids and their mangy mutt.

I admit, sometimes I may think too much. Thanks for clarifying the stalker bits though.

[UrielColtan]

The Warframes aren't without a sense of self; a point that DE has (I dare say intentionally) demonstrated very clearly. So it's not as if we've been shoehorned into 'You are not the Warframe, you are the Tenno' following the events of Second Dream. Remember that the Tenno was immobilised and completely at the mercy of the Stalker right at the end, at which point the Warframe summoned the will to destroy the blade of its own volition out of desire to save its master.

If anything this actually adds to the character of the Warframes, and demonstrates that they are still the silent, stoic and loyal warriors we've always known them to be. Only that now there is another entity, an intermediary if you like, that closes the link between the Warframes and the Lotus.

I like to think DE deliberately chose to demonstrate that the Warframes have a sense of self in order to leave the choice to the players.

So what does that mean? Simple.

You choose to be the Tenno guiding the hand of the Warframes, or you choose to be the Warframes that live to protect and carry out the will of their master. If anything, we were already doing this before in servitude to the Lotus. Now there's just another link in the chain.

 I'm just going to paste some prior commentary. It was in response to some Soon*TM nonsense about Mirage and Limbo, but it gets the general point across.

 

"The only way I could feel anything for either of Limbo or Mirage's "Deaths" is if there were actually tenno bodies in them. 

 

A scenario of the frames themselves being "alive" would not feel right to me, as the frames seem like they would be better off dead, given how braindead or wild (as the one in as the proto Rhino in the Rhino codex was.) they appear to be. Either way, a generally invalid mental state to be found.  Having to live in a body with no eyes, nose, mouth, ears or usable "organs"(And I am not talking merely internal, know what I mean?) to put it lightly, on top of being controlled by preteens, is also quite unpleasant sounding. Death would seem like a godsend for such a poor specimen, from my perspective. 

Just a veritable "Johnny Got His Gun" at that point.

Just want them to be suits, thanks."

 

And Lotus was just a dumb guide, this was emphasized during events like Gradivus Dilemma. The kids literally puppet the frames around.

Edited December 15, 2015 by UrielColtan