Realistically Speaking, Does The Rubico Benefit From Punchthrough?

[Evanescent]

It's about going for those headshots, and there;s not much crowd clearing to be done when you're aiming at the head level. Now if you were going for body shots in lines I could see it working but as of testing it out I don't know if it's worth it.

 

Does the Rubico really benefit from punchthrough? Or is another damage mod better?

 

My build is as follows, after 6 polarisations:

 

Serration;Split Chamber;Shred;Vital Sense;Point Strike; Primed Fast Hands;2x90% elementals based on faction.

 

I have shred in there for quick follow up shots to take out multiple targets and to get the combo counter up for tougher enemies, the punchthrough is added bonus. I am wondering on whether to switch it out for a fire-rate mod.

 

Performance with this build is, after testing in Simulcrum against level 80 napalms and gunners with radiation damage on the rubico at maximum zoom:

 

3 shots/2 shots to take out first napalm, then 1 shot per following napalm.

3 shot per gunner with radiation followed by one shot kills when combo counter builds up

1 shot any level of other armored enemy

 

With corrosive, 1 or 2 shot gunners and grunt units, 3 or 1 mag per napalm and bomard.

Once 3 shots have been landed it will one shot anything.

 

 

Thoughts?

Edited December 12, 2015 by Evanescent

[(PSN)jFresh215]

all snipers would benefit from innate punch through. 

[taiiat]

i'll always say yes with how i play Warframe.

 

losing maybe 10% per shot Damage to be able to hit Dozens of Enemies at a time when the opportunity arises - makes your Killing Efficiency skyrocket. instead of having to separately shoot every single Enemy (in a game where you commonly fight dozens upon dozens at a time), you can take the opportunity to clear out groups of Enemies at a time to reduce the amount of shooting you need to do.

 

and shooting through walls and Et Cetera is always nice too, if you have some creativity in how you shoot.

 

 

you don't always need to get Weakpoint Crits - they're just the most ideal Damage. if you wait around for a Weakpoint Crit on every single Enemy, your Time To Kill on Enemies goes up by a lot.

 

- - - - - 

 

i recognize, unlike others that i'm imagining won't, that you're talking about whether having a Punch-Through Mod may or may not be worth it, you're not talking about changing the game, just discussing Mod preferences.

[Evanescent]

i'll always say yes with how i play Warframe.

 

losing maybe 10% per shot Damage to be able to hit Dozens of Enemies at a time when the opportunity arises - makes your Killing Efficiency skyrocket. instead of having to separately shoot every single Enemy (in a game where you commonly fight dozens upon dozens at a time), you can take the opportunity to clear out groups of Enemies at a time to reduce the amount of shooting you need to do.

 

and shooting through walls and Et Cetera is always nice too, if you have some creativity in how you shoot.

 

 

you don't always need to get Weakpoint Crits - they're just the most ideal Damage. if you wait around for a Weakpoint Crit on every single Enemy, your Time To Kill on Enemies goes up by a lot.

 

- - - - - 

 

i recognize, unlike others that i'm imagining won't, that you're talking about whether having a Punch-Through Mod may or may not be worth it, you're not talking about changing the game, just discussing Mod preferences.

I might have to edit the title, hang on. Mornings wreak havoc on my communication faculties.

[Evanescent]

Done, and for the Rubico especially I find myself quickscoping using the max zoom for headshots a lot. Given that most enemies are taller than Warframes my shots tend to go at angles instead of straight groups, which lead me to the making of the topic.

 

Now I realise going for body shots is optimal when countering groups but is the rubico really the weapon for group slaughter?

Edited December 12, 2015 by Evanescent

[Cynick]

I'm using Metal Auger on mine (also 6 forma) mainly because it allows you to shoot things which hide behind cover or through the environment from a distance. Shooting multiple enemies at once is just a bonus, and a nice one at that due to the fast reset of the Rubico's combo timer. 

[Darzk]

i'll always say yes with how i play Warframe.

 

losing maybe 10% per shot Damage to be able to hit Dozens of Enemies at a time when the opportunity arises - makes your Killing Efficiency skyrocket. instead of having to separately shoot every single Enemy (in a game where you commonly fight dozens upon dozens at a time), you can take the opportunity to clear out groups of Enemies at a time to reduce the amount of shooting you need to do.

Rubico hits so freaking hard I would absolutely take it for that weapon, but some of the other snipers I'd stay away. 

 

The final mod slot is worth about 16-24% damage on most builds, but handily Shred comes with a 30% RoF increase so it can be worth it. You might need to install PFH on the Rubico to keep the combo counter climbing (if you want to bother with that, as I said it doesn't need the damage). In which case it's taking up a 2nd last mod slot, usually worth around 27-32% burst dps.

 

Basically, I would mod the Rubico with SC, Serration, PS+VS, 3x 90% elements, and the final slot is Shred for crowds, PFH for combo-chaining, or ST/VA for a more usable RoF.

[taiiat]

but is the rubico really the weapon for group slaughter?

it's certainly a much better Weapon for crowds than another gun that you left in your Liset and can't currently shoot with!

 

i'm quite serious. you could swap to a Secondary / Melee. but if you brought Gun N, that's what you have in your hands. something being better for this or that role doesn't matter if you don't have it in your pockets.

and i prefer Weapons that are flexible to ones that are completely dedicated to one thing. so even if i could switch Weapons, i'd want whatever that's in my hand to still be useful if i decide i want to use it.

 

Rubico hits so freaking hard

 

You might need to install PFH on the Rubico to keep the combo counter climbing (if you want to bother with that, as I said it doesn't need the damage). In which case it's taking up a 2nd last mod slot, usually worth around 27-32% burst dps.

still 62.5% Crit Chance - only hits hard if your Gun randomly decides it wants to actually shoot, since if it doesn't Crit it might as well have jammed.

 

i don't see super high RoF and Reload Speed for building the Counter bonus being all that practical. i'd still have to have Punch-Through on that, meaning i'd be multiplying mostly Physical Damage to end up with less Damage in the end still. usable? maybe... but not practical with that Ammo Pool. like putting Vile Acceleration on Soma Series, just not a very good idea.

 

and pffft - 'a more usable RoF' - Lanka definitely has a Charge Time with Vile Acceleration. but everyone has their preferences. and Opticor definitely has a Charge Time with even 3 Speed Mods. crymeariver.jpg? :D

(and Lanka having a Crit Chance Optic is far more desirable IMO - Crit Damage is different and interesting though! certainly better than all of the other Sniper Rifles that have lameduck +Base Damage q.q)

[Darzk]

i don't see super high RoF and Reload Speed for building the Counter bonus being all that practical

Eh, tbh it's more about enjoying the new mechanic than actually having a benefit to the damage - and that 3 second reload is just brutal. ~2 sec with PHF is more manageable. The added RoF is, again, more about the 'feel' of the gun than the dps; I find I can sight targets before it's ready to fire fairly often, and a faster RoF makes up for those times when you don't crit and need a second shot.

 

Don't get me wrong, I actually do use Shred on my most-used Rubico build, but I'm saying I can see that sometimes you wouldn't need it. It's perfectly acceptable to have a 'heavy hunting' setup that doesn't bother with P.T. and always aims for heads.

 

still 62.5% Crit Chance - only hits hard if your Gun randomly decides it wants to actually shoot, since if it doesn't Crit it might as well have jammed.

Yeah but when it doesn't crit that extra 30% damage isn't going to help you. The +RoF would (another shot) and so would the P.T. - with Shred and SC, that 62.5% chance means only a ~2.7% chance to not crit at least one of the two enemies hit.

 

(and Lanka having a Crit Chance Optic is far more desirable IMO - Crit Damage is different and interesting though! certainly better than all of the other Sniper Rifles that have lameduck +Base Damage q.q)

Lanka's scope buff is stupid-powerful. While this 35-50% works like a mod (stacks with Vital Sense) the Lanka scope buff is a separate added bonus that gives it guaranteed crits. The drawback being that the 12x zoom is really hard to work with (quickscoping is becoming a thing, which I'm not loving).

[ashrah]

lanka is much harder to use than rubico or vectis... even with  90% fire rate mod to  decrese charge time its pretty slow wen u consider spawn rate of mobs.....

[taiiat]

Eh, tbh it's more about enjoying the new mechanic than actually having a benefit to the damage

very well. i guess it's just something that i'm not that enthusiastic about. not a big deal to me.

 

 

Lanka's scope buff is stupid-powerful.

and other Sniper Rifles could very well share some of that Bonus, as it's pretty fair tbh.

 

if others were say, 15/20-25 Crit Chance to Lanka's 20/30/50, Lanka would retain the most benefit from it, but other Sniper Rifles could get more reliable Crits from their Optics as well.

along with some interesting, unique facets.... because again, + Base Damage is really lame and not interesting.

 

yno, Snipetron Series could gain even MORE Punch-Through when zooming, and apply guaranteed Puncture Status, and have a decent Chance to Stagger, Et Cetera.

 

Vulkar could gain Chance to apply Blast Status(on top of any other Status) to simulate the sort of 'big lump of metal' projectile i imagine Vulkar fires, even could have a Chance to Ragdoll.

perhaps even a new CC type: causing Enemies to stumble, trip, and land on their face.

that would be a really convenient CC type because it means the 'Head' of the Enemy is probably facing directly towards you, and it also looks hilarious too.

 

Vectis Series is a difficult one... each of the two Weapons are kind've different from each other pretty significantly, so their Optics should probably be different. however, nothing is really standing out to me as a "that's what these Weapons are themed around".

we can't say they're themed around Killing things with one Shot, all of them are. so like say, talk about Lato Series, i don't know what theme Lato Prime / Vectis Series is really tuned to supposed to be, so it's hard to really come up with bonuses that feel natural and intuitive on them.

 

Lanka could gain guaranteed Electric Status.

(i also want it to be Silent again... would gladly trade 175 of it's Damage for it to be innately Silent!

 

 

and if you hate 'Quickscoping' i guess you may not like me that much - i do whatever i need to in order to get my intended Lanka shot on target while avoiding dying. that does sometimes involve Quickscoping, but i usually have sufficient time to plan shots a bit more, and sometimes... 'you have all the time in the world' (league of extraordinary gentleman is so great).

 

btw i'd be all for Rubico's Crit Damage Bonus to be a flat value too! +1/2 Crit Damage, sure!

it's current 50% max is +1.5 as it is anyways. but flat values feel better.

so that would add 0.1x on Zoom 1 and 0.5x on Zoom 2 over the current 30/50%.

[Darzk]

and other Sniper Rifles could very well share some of that Bonus, as it's pretty fair tbh.

Yeah the discrepancy between the buffs is a little extreme. The VectisP, for example, gains something like 7.5% damage when fully zoomed in - it's basically not worth the bother - while the Lanka's buff is worth about 65% damage.

 

Pre-release I was pushing for different-but-equal buffs at different scope levels; etc the low zoom buff would be something like PT for crowds, while the highest zoom would be doubled headshot damage for picking off heavies, etc.

[taiiat]

Pre-release I was pushing for different-but-equal buffs at different scope levels.

as long as the bonuses feel natural at low/high Zoom (low Zoom being less single target and high zoom being focused on something big and nasty or something like that), then could certainly work.

[3lackrose]

Punch-Through helps in hitting packs running in lines, or hiding behing small objects. You can claim hits from behind gates or walls / pillars at times, maybe some people don't find this to be a big deal but for me, having it or not makes quite a difference.

Edited December 13, 2015 by 3lackrose