Can Valkyr Be Changed To Take Damage During Hysteria?

[Synitare]

I don't think you understand how much a 95% damage resistance would be ontop of Valkyr's already high armor. A Bombard would have to be volleying rockets at you for the better half of a century to kill you. As for melee being an issue, you can move so fast that it doesn't matter, and any damage that bombard does with the one rocket that will hit you will be negated by the innate lifesteal.

 

Chroma isn't immune to Eximus, and even with handspring being knocked down at the wrong time can be fatal. The difference between Chroma's damage resistance and the hypothetical 95% is pretty much nil until you reach absurdly high levels where Valkyr isn't even viable anyway.

 

 

Infinite Hysteria > Not Infinite Hysteria. The change would be a buff to anyone but Pleblord McGee who doesn't have the right mods. Even then, said individual is probably doesn't have high enough gear to make it to the levels where not having those mods would matter.

 

Valkyr has 600 base armor, which is a 66% damage reduction. If for whatever bewildering reason they decided to make damage reductions stack like you're thinking, it still wouldn't be as much total DR as Chroma can get, and she's still limited to melee range, which means she's much more vulnerable than any other frame. If you want to use Steel Fiber and/or Armored Agility you'll have to sacrifice mod slots to them. You're going to lose duration or efficiency, which means your damage resistance isn't going to last long enough to matter.

 

A level 100 Bombard would need to shoot around 8 rockets at you to kill you with 95% DR if I remember right (definitely not sure on this one though). This is of course assuming you're only fighting a single bombard as well, with nothing else at all shooting at you.

 

 

 

The difference between Chroma's damage resistance and the hypothetical 95% is pretty much nil until you reach absurdly high levels where Valkyr isn't even viable anyway.

 

What? Have you ever even played Valkyr? High level survival runs are almost the only place she's viable. Chroma doesn't need to be immune to eximus, because he can stay at range.

 

This change would be a nerf. You can already maintain infinite Hysteria. On the topic of mods though, why not provide a build you think will work for your idea here? I'm interested to see how you would get high efficiency, high duration, high survivability, plus Rage and Quick Thinking to fit into 8 mod slots.

 

If you want to not be instagibbed you'll need at least Vitality and Steel Fiber, which would leave you with 4 whole slots to work with when you add your Rage and QT. You'd also need Flow or Primed Flow if you want QT to even matter, so now we're at 3 slots. Streamline and Fleeting are essentially necessary to keep Hysteria sustainable, even with Rage. Now we've got one slot, which would go to either Primed Continuity or Eternal War so our Warcry can actually remain useful to some degree. Now we've got a build with less sustainability, less survivability and much less killing power. But it's a buff!

Edited December 16, 2015 by Synitare

[Technologic141]

Try it yourself in sortie survival. It is pretty good balanced.
Corpus

1) Activate hysteria
2) Atack enemy
3) Realise most of enemies have energy drain
4) Kill them
5) 40 energy left
6) Meet nullifier gang
7) Atack them
8) You almost die by stored damage
9) Run far from them with losed healt, zero energy and sentinel dead
10) Killed by sepping osprey spam
11) revived by MR5 Frost
12) Start using weapons

Infested
1) Activate hysteria
2) Atack enemy
3) Realised most of them are ancient disruptor and eximus with uber energy drain and dmg reduction
4) Atack them
5) You kill one disruptor and two eximus
6) Energy is gone
7) In panic Activate paralysis
8) Ambushed by Tar MoA
9) Survive with few healt
10) Killed by mutalist osprey cloud
11) Revived by MR 8 Saryn
12) Start using weapons

Grineer
1) Activate hysteria
2) Atack enemy
3) Bomber/Napalm eximus party is here
4) Your sentinel is dead
5) Killing four Eximus napal is slowest that song you listening
6) Still using hysteria
7) Be bored by hysteria
8) Stop for while and enjoying moment how good her bottom look
9) Back to game revive all fallen teamates
10) Deactivate hysteria
11) Start using weapons

                                                                                                                                                              True story.

Hysteria is pretty good balanced. Not necessary something change here.
But bless trinity do almost same thing. Jaja all are invincible and that is good, not nerf here, everything is fine but valkyr oj oj to bad for play because she is invincible and bla bla bla...  
If you meet MR21 moron how he play on survival in permanent hysteria or similar situation. Of course it make you angry. But its PLAYERS fault! Always its player fault.
Different players like different styles.
Don't blame game.

 

[Synitare]

Mind linking me to the patch notes where Frost can neutralize the aura's of Eximus enemies? I must have missed it.

 

Sure, just as soon as you show me where I said anything even remotely close to that.

[Mozileon]

So... I just brought my Lv17 Valkyr in Palus, Pluto since I never understood what the whole argument was with Valkyr (Never read her abilities).

She has 22% Power Duration, 175% Power Efficiency, 100% Power Range, and 180% Power Strength. Her 4th ability, Hysteria, is rank 0. Can someone give me a good answer as to why she shouldn't get nerfed? I realize she's restricted to only her melee weapon, but at rank 0 (about a 1energy/sec drain) I was invincible the entire mission... I was doing upwards of about 20k per critical slide attack. Nullifiers didn't really pose a threat. Just angle yourself about 45 degrees so that you're outside, but nearly tangent to the bubble and you can wittle it down fairly quickly.

 

I almost feel quite dirty after playing Valkyr. I'm not bagging on any other Valkyr mains out there, but I think this invincibility needs a check. If it can't get substituted for something else to fit her current kit or changed in an entire kit revamp, perhaps the drain needs to be increased. I don't see any reason for how this is balanced really. Yes, she can't use her primaries or secondaries, but when all you have to do is slide attack around and 1-shot everything, is that really an issue? As some people say, if you don't like the frame, don't play her. If people are having trouble at the higher level missions and can't slide attack around, I don't think it's her that requires more melee range (for example) or anything of the sort, but utilizing what you're given.

 

*My Valkyr is only Lv17 and I was in a Lv30+ mission. I'm assuming that by the time my Valkyr becomes Lv30, she'll be able to solo Lv70+ missions. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

**Edit: I didn't realize melee affected her Hysteria. In that case, maybe she can perform even greater at higher levels. I was using a Bo Prime that wasn't fully modded, as opposed to my Scindo Prime that is fully modded for damage and reach.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Mozileon

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Try it yourself in sortie survival. It is pretty good balanced.

Corpus

1) Activate hysteria

2) Atack enemy

3) Realise most of enemies have energy drain

4) Kill them

5) 40 energy left

6) Meet nullifier gang

7) Atack them

8) You almost die by stored damage

9) Run far from them with losed healt, zero energy and sentinel dead

10) Killed by sepping osprey spam

11) revived by MR5 Frost

12) Start using weapons

Infested

1) Activate hysteria

2) Atack enemy

3) Realised most of them are ancient disruptor and eximus with uber energy drain and dmg reduction

4) Atack them

5) You kill one disruptor and two eximus

6) Energy is gone

7) In panic Activate paralysis

8) Ambushed by Tar MoA

9) Survive with few healt

10) Killed by mutalist osprey cloud

11) Revived by MR 8 Saryn

12) Start using weapons

Grineer

1) Activate hysteria

2) Atack enemy

3) Bomber/Napalm eximus party is here

4) Your sentinel is dead

5) Killing four Eximus napal is slowest that song you listening

6) Still using hysteria

7) Be bored by hysteria

8) Stop for while and enjoying moment how good her bottom look

9) Back to game revive all fallen teamates

10) Deactivate hysteria

11) Start using weapons

True story.

Hysteria is pretty good balanced. Not necessary something change here.

But bless trinity do almost same thing. Jaja all are invincible and that is good, not nerf here, everything is fine but valkyr oj oj to bad for play because she is invincible and bla bla bla...

If you meet MR21 moron how he play on survival in permanent hysteria or similar situation. Of course it make you angry. But its PLAYERS fault! Always its player fault.

Different players like different styles.

Don't blame game.

Agreed. Stupid people neednt try.

[Synitare]

So... I just brought my Lv17 Valkyr in Palus, Pluto since I never understood what the whole argument was with Valkyr (Never read her abilities).

She has 22% Power Duration, 175% Power Efficiency, 100% Power Range, and 180% Power Strength. Her 4th ability, Hysteria, is rank 0. Can someone give me a good answer as to why she shouldn't get nerfed? ..

 

Asking for "a good reason" is essentially telling everyone that you're already biased and won't accept any answer no matter how well reasoned, because it goes against your own opinions. There's a ton of information in this thread and the dozens of others just like it, and there will be more in the next thread that shows up in a couple days. Read those.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Synitare

[Mozileon]

Asking for "a good reason" is essentially telling everyone that you're already biased and won't accept any answer no matter how well reasoned, because it goes against your own opinions. There's a ton of information in this thread and the dozens of others just like it, and there will be more in the next thread that shows up in a couple days. Read those.

 

Let me rephrase: I would like to hear another reason that wasn't already previously listed since I also addressed some of those in my post. I've read pro-Valkyrs say removing her invincibility entirely would make her useless and I agree with that. That's why I've suggested the higher energy drain. As for my opinion, I'm well aware that it's my opinion. You've told me to look at other information in the thread and I already had, but for your enlightenment I've went through most of the posts again. I see comparisons to other Warframes like Trinity, Excalibur, and Chroma without any actual valid reasoning, I think. Again, that is my opinion (that the reasoning isn't greatly justified). As for not being able to utilize her primaries and secondaries, I feel the the damage that comes with Hysteria is enough to make up for it (or even replace your other weapons, so long as you can maintain Hysteria). 

 

I'm actively looking for different opinions, since I'm well aware that perspectives can change. I'm here for discussion, not to sound like a close-minded jerk who wants to laugh at people who main Valkyr solely for using Hysteria a whole mission. I'll probably have to dig up some other posts (I'm fairly new to the forums).

[Synitare]

Let me rephrase: I would like to hear another reason that wasn't already previously listed since I also addressed some of those in my post. I've read pro-Valkyrs say removing her invincibility entirely would make her useless and I agree with that. That's why I've suggested the higher energy drain. As for my opinion, I'm well aware that it's my opinion.

 

How many reasons do you need? Do you have some sort of quota that needs to be filled before you change your opinion? Or are you looking for a specific reason? The one reason to rule them all? You've made up your mind. Nothing is likely to change it, which is fine. If you want to discuss something then by all means offer some discussion. Read through the feedback already provided and discuss it. Don't just try to bait people into arguments by saying "I tried it once, why do you people think it shouldn't be nerfed? Give me a good reason!"

[Eltoshan]

Here's what happens if you increase the drain: players tricked out with mods won't notice because it'd have to be truly insane to make them care, AND you'll make it impossible to use for newer players if you do raise it that much. Alternatively, you increase it so minorly that it ends up being barely an inconvenience for the same tricked out players, and still makes it a complete pain to use for newer players. Is there some magical middle ground? Maybe. Probably not. Will it actually get found? Yeah, kinda doubtful.

 

In either case, she is no more desirable for a lot of mission types, and at best you'll chase a few people off of her (or the majority, if it's increased too much), and she'll still be a frame propped up by one dumb ability. She has one particular niche that she's pretty good at but this is a game with frames who can be good at a lot of things at once or frames who enable everyone else to be really good at everything.

 

It's really rather telling when you have a frame with literal godmode and people have to argue against nerfing only that aspect, because we don't want to end up with a worst case scenario where it gets nerfed, the rest of her kit is left untouched, aaaaand we end up with a dumpster frame because just go play Chroma. Seriously, her kit design is bad right now, and the answer isn't 'nerf her defining ability'.

[Mozileon]

How many reasons do you need? Do you have some sort of quota that needs to be filled before you change your opinion? Or are you looking for a specific reason? The one reason to rule them all? You've made up your mind. Nothing is likely to change it, which is fine. If you want to discuss something then by all means offer some discussion. Read through the feedback already provided and discuss it. Don't just try to bait people into arguments by saying "I tried it once, why do you people think it shouldn't be nerfed? Give me a good reason!"

 

To be honest, the best reason I've heard is the whole primaries and secondaries unusable when in Hysteria. When you compare it to Wukong, I can see how it's very unfair and am on the sides of the pro-Valkyr. Wukong uses Defy and can safely toggle it, for the most part, in tandem with the Cloud. In this case, I can see why Valkyr might need a buff instead of a nerf. Again, this is my opinion and is based on my experience. In no way am I locked into my decision.

 

I'm not going to keep replying and keep adding to the tug-of-war that this thread already has. I want to know the experience of other players in response to what I came up with. And again, I have not "made up my mind," but rather am finding it hard to see another perspective where she isn't. I really want to believe that every frame is balanced in their own way.

 

In regards to an Hysteria re-balance, and since there's a lot of discussion also involving Trinity, how would a Hysteria that builds up go into effect? Perhaps you start off reducing half the damage and the longer you stay in it, the more the damage reduction increases up to, possibly, 99.9% just like Trinity? Or maybe make it similar to Wukong and how you keep his staff long - having a minimum value for the damage reduction (maybe like... 75%? I don't know) and killing mobs with any weapons to keep it up (Similar to a melee combo counter but not the melee combo counter itself. 2 seconds wouldn't be enough to keep it up for long in my opinion) and having it decay overtime sounds interesting.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Mozileon

[Synitare]

I'm not going to keep replying and keep adding to the tug-of-war that this thread already has. I want to know the experience of other players in response to what I came up with. And again, I have not "made up my mind," but rather am finding it hard to see another perspective where she isn't. I really want to believe that every frame is balanced in their own way.

 

The issue is that your experience with the issue is limited to a single mission on the starchart, which is largely irrelevant. You then come here saying the one solitary thing that makes her viable and unique needs to be nerfed because you were able to complete a starchart mission easily. You have essentially no basis for your opinions, and yet you demand other people justify themselves to you.

 

Valkyr is balanced around the fact that she's limited to melee range only. A lot of people really want to pretend that this isn't an issue, but it absolutely is. Melee only means you're always getting hit by just about everything. You can't hide behind a wall shooting Tonkor grenades, you can't bullet jump gleefully through the air setting everything on fire and knocking them down, you can't cower beneath Frosts snow globe for 40 minutes, only leaving during the few seconds between waves. Flat damage reduction instead of invincibility has been discussed probably hundreds of times. The conclusion is that unless she can maintain a 99% damage reduction, which is what Chroma and Trinity can both achieve, she will be strictly worse and there will be no reason to play her. If you want more information, read through this very thread or use the search bar and search for "hysteria." There are dozens of threads, many of which contain all the information you're asking for. I've said this three times now.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Synitare

[Mozileon]

The issue is that your experience with the issue is limited to a single mission on the starchart, which is largely irrelevant. You then come here saying the one solitary thing that makes her viable and unique needs to be nerfed because you were able to complete a starchart mission easily. You have essentially no basis for your opinions, and yet you demand other people justify themselves to you.

 

Valkyr is balanced around the fact that she's limited to melee range only. A lot of people really want to pretend that this isn't an issue, but it absolutely is. Melee only means you're always getting hit by just about everything. You can't hide behind a wall shooting Tonkor grenades, you can't bullet jump gleefully through the air setting everything on fire and knocking them down, you can't cower beneath Frosts snow globe for 40 minutes, only leaving when during the few seconds between waves. Flat damage reduction instead of invincibility has been discussed probably hundreds of times. The conclusion is that unless she can maintain a 99% damage reduction, which is what Chroma and Trinity can both achieve, she will be strictly worse and there will be no reason to play her. If you want more information, read through this very thread or use the search bar and search for "hysteria." There are dozens of threads, many of which contain all the information you're asking for. I've said this three times now.

 

Yes. I've been in the process of reading older Valkyr threads. Thank you times 3.

 

Also, Valkyr is immune to knockdowns, right? When I did that Palus mission + the void missions prior, I didn't seem to ever get knocked down, only pushed back. So it's alright if everything is already shooting her? If you were referring to a damage reduction skill change, that's why I also proposed the whole able-to-use-primaries-and-secondaries thing. She could seek shelter behind a Frost bubble, then after she built it up with her kills, she could go out when it's 99%, maintain it, and resume her role as really good tank, right?

Edited December 17, 2015 by Mozileon

[Synitare]

Yes. I've been in the process of reading older Valkyr threads. Thank you times 3.

 

Also, Valkyr is immune to knockdowns, right? When I did that Palus mission + the void missions prior, I didn't seem to ever get knocked down, only pushed back. So it's alright if everything is already shooting her? If you were referring to a damage reduction skill change, that's why I also proposed the whole able-to-use-primaries-and-secondaries thing. She could seek shelter behind a Frost bubble, then after she built it up with her kills, she could go out when it's 99%, maintain it, and resume her role as really good tank, right?

 

Now we go back to the question of why bring Valkyr at all at this point? With your proposed change, there really wouldn't be any reason to bring her to a team. Her skill set isn't very useful. Why not just bring a Nova, who can slow enemies down, make them take double damage, and have them explode for even more damage on death? Or Saryn, who also effectively makes all enemies take double damage. Or Trinity, who can give everyone infinite energy and/or give everyone a 99% damage reduction? There's almost never a reason to leave the frost bubble in the first place.

 

Valkyrs role in squads is essentially that of a medic rather than a tank. She can revive players that get a bit too greedy and that's about it. A role better filled by half a dozen other frames, each of which bring much more to the table than only that. As I said before, the issues with Valkyr extend far beyond Hysteria. That one skill is the only thing keeping her even slightly relevant.

[Mozileon]

Now we go back to the question of why bring Valkyr at all at this point? With your proposed change, there really wouldn't be any reason to bring her to a team. Her skill set isn't very useful. Why not just bring a Nova, who can slow enemies down, make them take double damage, and have them explode for even more damage on death? Or Saryn, who also effectively makes all enemies take double damage. Or Trinity, who can give everyone infinite energy and/or give everyone a 99% damage reduction? There's almost never a reason to leave the frost bubble in the first place.

 

Valkyrs role in squads is essentially that of a medic rather than a tank. She can revive players that get a bit too greedy and that's about it. A role better filled by half a dozen other frames, each of which bring much more to the table than only that. As I said before, the issues with Valkyr extend far beyond Hysteria. That one skill is the only thing keeping her even slightly relevant.

 

That's an interesting take. I was really looking through older posts and all I could see, that really stuck out anyways, were attacks on Valkyr and other frames... Everyone I know that plays Valkyr at high levels constantly talk about how she's "broken and shouldn't be changed." They mention consistent 10k damage at Sortie Phase 3 missions and just not dying period. I suppose they've adapted her Hysteria (since, as you said, that's the only thing really going for her) to their own playstyles and have made it work really well. I guess that's not the case for the majority of Valkyr players.

 

If that really is the case for a majority of Valkyr players, then I agree - Hysteria shouldn't be changed.  

[Neptlude]

Supposed to is the problem. Valkyr is just another version of those noobs that use Loki as an Im too scared to fight so let me go invisible and remove everyone weapons, where Valkyr is Im too scared to fight let me only focus on the efficiency of Hysteria and not the rest of my skills and survive on only godmode for 40+ minutes then tell my team who has 20x my kills GG!!

Was doing a mission with my valky, and another valky joined in. He keeps telling me to use my 4, when I'm just killing everything easily with my normal melee weapon... `-` then he left `-`

[pavlo555]

Good luck.

[Synitare]

That's an interesting take. I was really looking through older posts and all I could see, that really stuck out anyways, were attacks on Valkyr and other frames... Everyone I know that plays Valkyr at high levels constantly talk about how she's "broken and shouldn't be changed." They mention consistent 10k damage at Sortie Phase 3 missions and just not dying period. I suppose they've adapted her Hysteria (since, as you said, that's the only thing really going for her) to their own playstyles and have made it work really well. I guess that's not the case for the majority of Valkyr players.

 

If that really is the case for a majority of Valkyr players, then I agree - Hysteria shouldn't be changed.  

 

She's fairly strong, but only in a very specific set of circumstances. She's an excellent solo frame and one of the only ones capable of doing 60+ minute solo T4 Survival runs, which I think is where a lot of the cries for a nerf come from. She's also decent in T4I, and generally a pretty solid pick for Sorties, but just about every frame in the game is a better pick for anything involving a squad.

 

I'm personally not completely against Hysteria being changed, but not until the rest of her kit gets reworked into something usable. As she is now she needs the invincibility just to remain slightly relevant. She's a one trick pony, and there's other ponies that can do it better and their own tricks to boot.