The Synoid Simulor Appears To Really Need A Rebalance

[dmirtygorachyov]

Other weapons being broken, in their own right, doesn't make the Synoid fine. It just makes it broken as well.

 

This is neither an agreement or disagreement with your post, this is merely saying that your post is using flawed logic.

 

Flawed logic is the only logic around here afaik. Most of the popular arguments around here are like X is not op, look at Y! and the response is like, YES! YOU ARE TRUE Y IS MORE OP. Then when you say Y is op, they say look at Z, and if you say Z is op, they say look at X. Its a never ending cycle unfortunately.

 

No actual discussion actually takes place.

Edited January 9, 2016 by dmirtygorachyov

[StinkyPygmy]

 

Flawed logic is the only logic around here afaik. Most of the popular arguments around here are like X is not op, look at Y! and the response is like, YES! YOU ARE TRUE Y IS MORE OP. Then when you say Y is op, they say look at Z, and if you say Z is op, they say look at X. Its a never ending cycle unfortunately.

 

No actual discussion actually takes place.

Do.... are you doing this deliberately?

Is this some sort of really clever and really meta joke or are you that unaware of the irony and hypocrisy in  what you've been posting?

 

I mean you complain about the lack of discussion when there has at no point ever been any discussion with you unless someone already agrees with you, you've been hyper-aggressive (not conducive to a discussion), illogical, and claiming the forums doesn't care about balance when 90% of threads in the last 3 years here are about balance.

 

All this while rambling about how you min max, are a pro gamer and hyper competitive yadda ydda as if its relevant.

This horse is well and truly dead.

 

But seriously, if this really is some clever multi-layered joke then congrats.

 

Overall my stance can be summed up one of my previous posts: 

 

"...nerfing/buffing things are the least of WF problems. Ultimately these things wont matter and scaling of weapons vs mobs wont matter till WFs difficulty stops being almost entirely reliant on numbers and DPS.

Until theres more focus on dynamic mission types and enemy mechanics etc, then the forums will forever being having the old nerf vs buff debate, (which is at its core full of holes because only being one or the other cannot work and is not how balance works)."

 

None of this even matters when a new weapon will take the synoid similors place in no time. Things need to be uprooted in terms of WFs systems from the ground up. Otherwise, like for the last 3 years, these forums will be having the same debate but with new flavor of the month gear.

Its an endless cycle.

[dmirtygorachyov]

Do.... are you doing this deliberately?

Is this some sort of really clever and really meta joke or are you that unaware of the irony and hypocrisy in  what you've been posting?

 

I mean you complain about the lack of discussion when there has at no point ever been any discussion with you unless someone already agrees with you, you've been hyper-aggressive (not conducive to a discussion), illogical, and claiming the forums doesn't care about balance when 90% of threads in the last 3 years here are about balance.

 

All this while rambling about how you min max, are a pro gamer and hyper competitive yadda ydda as if its relevant.

This horse is well and truly dead.

 

But seriously, if this really is some clever multi-layered joke then congrats.

 

Overall my stance can be summed up one of my previous posts: 

 

"...nerfing/buffing things are the least of WF problems. Ultimately these things wont matter and scaling of weapons vs mobs wont matter till WFs difficulty stops being almost entirely reliant on numbers and DPS.

Until theres more focus on dynamic mission types and enemy mechanics etc, then the forums will forever being having the old nerf vs buff debate, (which is at its core full of holes because only being one or the other cannot work and is not how balance works)."

 

None of this even matters when a new weapon will take the synoid similors place in no time. Things need to be uprooted in terms of WFs systems from the ground up. Otherwise, like for the last 3 years, these forums will be having the same debate but with new flavor of the month gear.

Its an endless cycle.

I have never asked for nerfs or buffs, not once. I'm just saying that the synoid is the best gun in the game, that doesnt mean I want it nerfed. Im just saying that its the best weapon in the game, followed by a full stop. Currently warframe is almost completely unreliant on DPS and numbers, thats why the Synoid is so strong, its one of the most utility based primary weapons out there, along side the sonicor. When was the last time your team mates asked you to kill things in LoR? How many of the main meta frames are even dps centric, Frost, Loki, Trin, Nova, blind Mirage, Vauban are all utility frames. Aside from that the DPS is also still quite high for single target, and extremely high for any blob of enemies due to the value per second you get from the largest aoe in the game, followed by the electric proc. Followed by energy regen syndicate proc, followed by the area of denial, followed by the lack of need to aim. followed by the high ammo efficiency. These are all utility traits, not dps centric, which is why it is one of the best weapons in the game. The lack of aiming makes its practical DPS extremely high as well as you don't really need to slow down and aim, as long as an enemy is in range, it is going to endure the full punishment of the Synoid, thats it.

 

Never said nerf once. Bringing unranked weapons to Heiracon is absolutely common place even though it is one of the highest level enemies you could face aside from sorties. Plenty of people use sorties to level up their weapons since they rely on Mag/EV cheeses and things like that to avoid gunplay. Currently warframe is never going to get more difficult unless players ask for it. At the moment, it doesn't seem like its ever going to happen. People just want more exp bars to fill, more hats to farm, more power to creep. More "remakes" to the garbage frames. This game is much much more MMO than it was 2 years ago, and part of the reason is that the community wished it to be that way. No one wants to shoot, people just want to sit, grab their loot to the mercy of RNG. They want spells to cast, they want the game to be EASIER to loot if anything. Thats why the most rewarding activities in this game are Voids, if sorties were too rewarding  the plebs wouldn't be pleased. 

Synoid is my most used weapon, but in the end I have Warframe's interests at heart. Thats why I'm talking about the gun, I want warframe to be a better game. I don't care if my "favourite" (if you want to call it that) weapon gets nerfed/buffed, as long as it creates more viable alternatives in the arsenal and it makes the game more enjoyable in some way. Denying that its the best way just makes the problem worse, since it will be more difficult to understand the core problems which makes the end game of Warframe so stale.

Edited January 9, 2016 by dmirtygorachyov

[taiiat]

yes, Synoid Simulor is a W+M1 instant win Weapon.

 

Simulor is different, perhaps not very useful as a Weapon - but Synoid Simulor didn't fix any of that, just made it an AoE Blast with a handle.

don't aim, don't pay attention to where Enemies are, just constantly shoot and All Enemies are dead. with it's ridiculous AoE Range, high Damage with good Rate of Fire, and Rifle Ammo.

 

a very lameduck Weapon indeed.

[DesoPL]

You don't even need to headshot with the Sancti Tigris. 

 

Depends. If enemy on sorties got 50 - 65 LVL, is still insta dead. But if got 100+ LVL like on trials. You need shot x4 bullets to kill him.

[dmirtygorachyov]

Depends. If enemy on sorties got 50 - 65 LVL, is still insta dead. But if got 100+ LVL like on trials. You need shot x4 bullets to kill him.

 

Tigris is supposed to 1 shot enemies, if it doesn't its actually a terrible weapon because of how much reloading you have to do. Same as tonkor, if the tonkor doesn't 1 shot, it really isn't that great anymore.

[HandsomeSorcerer]

SS is a great weapon. Purely defenaive type weapon. It shpuldnt be nerfed as it isnt OP. It scales badly. Iwould prefer DE buffed ogris as it is a joke.

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

Other weapons being broken, in their own right, doesn't make the Synoid fine. It just makes it broken as well.

 

This is neither an agreement or disagreement with your post, this is merely saying that your post is using flawed logic.

LOL, pretty much. 

Edited January 9, 2016 by (PS4)Poloboyzz93

[bubbabenali]

Tigris is supposed to 1 shot enemies, if it doesn't its actually a terrible weapon because of how much reloading you have to do. Same as tonkor, if the tonkor doesn't 1 shot, it really isn't that great anymore.

Learn to aim.

I know it's hard with a max power Mirage, but I really believe you can do that.

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

Also, thank you to everyone, even the people who disagreed. I decided a short while ago I'd make a forum account to really gauge where this communities head was at in terms of warframe, and well...My first REAL topic in, it's received hell of an audience, given that some of you guys have  straight up agreed, the only ones left disagreeing are people who are saying either "Well other weapons are OP too" or .."it's a problem with the game, not the actual weapon", and while I PARTLY agree, I feel as though we need to start getting the power creep that has ALREADY SUBMERGED the game nipped in the butt. Let's take for instance some well balanced "endgame weapons", the Soma P, Boltor P, and hell...Idk, the Lex prime. These weapons aren't insanely OP at all. They are the closest (IMO) to what endgame weapons SHOULD be. Then we go up a tier, to suspect weapons..Sancti, Vayk, etc. If you can afford them, you really have no reason to use the soma or boltor anymore, they're overall just better..Gives little mean to "balance" Then, you have blantantly broken weapons, the synoid, tonkor, and to an extent, the torid. These weapons are king right now and frankly are a win button..People are saying they want to STOP power creep, Bro, it's already in full effect. This is how you want this game to be? If you want a game where every weapon can never be more than "good" or "niche"because of these 5 "great" weapons you can win button with standing over them, you should be on destiny with a pulse rifle. Nasty unbalance is nastyy.

Edited January 9, 2016 by (PS4)Poloboyzz93

[bubbabenali]

The only reason why the Tonkor and the Synoid Simulor feel OP is that they are high damage Blast weapons without any noticeable selfdamage.

And frankly that I understand.

The Secura Penta could easily outdamage the S Simulor, if I could spam the room with it's granades without keeping in mind to blow myself up, the Kulstar too.

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

The only reason why the Tonkor and the Synoid Simulor feel OP is that they are high damage Blast weapons without any noticeable selfdamage.

And frankly that I understand.

The Secura Penta could easily outdamage the S Simulor, if I could spam the room with it's granades without keeping in mind to blow myself up, the Kulstar too.

IF, is the key to what you just said. Also, the pentas grenades bounce, just overall, you need more skill to effectively put the penta to better use than the synoid, you want to be trying for headshots with grenades, it's less spammy to winny than the S simulor, you don't agree? You can literally do some "wanted" type gunning with the S Simulor, through walls, round corners, run through mobs spamming balls (with the punch through mod balls go straight through enemies and det on the other side of them) evaporate nullifier shields super fast, when you are using it, you literally dont need to fear any enemy except one that uses the weakspot mechanic...And theres not enough to use that as justification 

Edited January 9, 2016 by (PS4)Poloboyzz93

[dmirtygorachyov]

Learn to aim.

I know it's hard with a max power Mirage, but I really believe you can do that.

 

With the synoid, you don't have to, and you still do more damage than the tigris. That is the point of this thread.

[bubbabenali]

IF, is the key to what you just said. Also, the pentas grenades bounce, just overall, you need more skill to effectively put the penta to better use than the synoid, you want to be trying for headshots with grenades, it's less spammy to winny than the S simulor, you don't agree? You can literally do some "wanted" type gunning with the S Simulor, through walls, round corners, run through mobs spamming balls (with the punch through mod balls go straight through enemies and det on the other side of them) evaporate nullifier shields super fast, when you are using it, you literally dont need to fear any enemy except one that uses the weakspot mechanic...And theres not enough to use that as justification 

Thats all the cause of not needing to fear of self damage.

All explosive weapons have infinite punchthrow and can be used arround corners.

Yea, the grenades are a bit bouncy, but with no selfdamage they would be triggered everytime in midair for headshot awesomnes 2m after launch.

I think with Wukong thats doable thanks to Defy, but think about it, how would you use these Explosive weapons, if they wouldn't kill you every shot. Suddenly every launcher feels like the S Simulor - well the Panthera asside.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

With the synoid, you don't have to, and you still do more damage than the tigris. That is the point of this thread.

And when it gets nerfed and no one uses it? What then, gloat? I guess when everyone is dying and cannot finish sorties, or take part in T4 s, or raids, and the small percentage of skilled players are all by themselves wondering why they are playing solo and Warframe gets a reputation as unfun, then it will be fun? Because hitscan and endless enemy spawns ratcheting up to 100 and higher with no weapon that CC them to counter Eximus or Nullfiers isn't fun.

Instead it seems you should be asking for a Tigris buff, rather than one more nerf to get at players you don't like due to them choosing to run with something powerful that isn't a Penta, or Tonkor, or Soma Prime. Dragging the top ten percent down to the MR trash isn't fixing anything if the enemy are still going to run with stats meant for the hour mark and higher, where dragging the 90 percent of the garbage guns up to the used ten percent would be better for everyone.

TL;DR All you're doing is taking one more weapon and sending it into the MR trash bin, rather than better use of time in lifting up your gun of choice to a level where players want to use it, rather than forcing them to be unhappy lost in a inventory of uselessness. So the follow up should be placing a ceiling on the enemy so you can balance the guns...completely negating the reason players enjoy Warframe, due to the math needed for that extra ten percent damage that you can squeeze out to get another twenty minutes in a two hour survival.

Edited January 9, 2016 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

Thats all the cause of not needing to fear of self damage.

All explosive weapons have infinite punchthrow and can be used arround corners.

Yea, the grenades are a bit bouncy, but with no selfdamage they would be triggered everytime in midair for headshot awesomnes 2m after launch.

I think with Wukong thats doable thanks to Defy, but think about it, how would you use these Explosive weapons, if they wouldn't kill you every shot. Suddenly every launcher feels like the S Simulor - well the Panthera asside.

That's the thing, the synoid does everything THEY do without self damage. People(not you, others) will literally sit here and say explosive weapons are OP but the simulor isn't. Well imagine an explosive weapon that does their damage PLUS a load more utility than them, realistically that would be the king of OP right? Well it's not a subject of imagination, it actually exists lol. Put it like this, you need no knowledge other than a 2nd grade education to abuse this gun. Like you said though, lots of guns are like that, this one is just king though.

[bubbabenali]

That's the thing, the synoid does everything THEY do without self damage. People(not you, others) will literally sit here and say explosive weapons are OP but the simulor isn't. Well imagine an explosive weapon that does their damage PLUS a load more utility than them, realistically that would be the king of OP right? Well it's not a subject of imagination, it actually exists lol. Put it like this, you need no knowledge other than a 2nd grade education to abuse this gun. Like you said though, lots of guns are like that, this one is just king though.

Nah, Tonkor is still the King.

Use it with a Tailwind Zephyr and obliterate the Map in seconds. Up to level 80 you don't even need to move around.

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

And when it gets nerfed and no one uses it? What then, gloat? I guess when everyone is dying and cannot finish sorties, or take part in T4 s, or raids, and the small percentage of skilled players are all by themselves wondering why they are playing solo and Warframe gets a reputation as unfun, then it will be fun? Because hitscan and endless enemy spawns ratcheting up to 100 and higher with no weapon that CC them to counter Eximus or Nullfiers isn't fun.

Instead it seems you should be asking for a Tigris buff, rather than one more nerf to get at players you don't like due to them choosing to run with something powerful that isn't a Penta, or Tonkor, or Soma Prime. Dragging the top ten percent down to the MR trash isn't fixing anything if the enemy are still going to run with stats meant for the hour mark and higher, where dragging the 90 percent of the garbage guns up to the used ten percent would be better for everyone.

TL;DR All you're doing is taking one more weapon and sending it into the MR trash bin, rather than better use of time in lifting up your gun of choice to a level where players want to use it, rather than forcing them to be unhappy lost in a inventory of uselessness. So the follow up should be placing a ceiling on the enemy so you can balance the guns...completely negating the reason players enjoy Warframe, due to the math needed for that extra ten percent damage that you can squeeze out to get another twenty minutes in a two hour survival.

I guess when everyone starts dying in sorties and can't pass missions after it's nerfed we'll finally sit back and think "Holy crap, that gun really was carrying and OP,we weren't skilled enough to do it without it"  and will be forced to hone their skills, like the game was meant to do. Maybe then we can look forward to an actual challenge, yeah, let's bring 90 % of weapons up to the S simulor's level, so this game can become even LESS challenging. Makes sense.

Edited January 9, 2016 by (PS4)Poloboyzz93

[IceColdHawk]

I guess when everyone starts dying in sorties and can't pass missions after it's nerfed we'll finally sit back and think "Holy crap, that gun really was carrying and OP,we weren't skilled enough to do it without it"  and will be forced to hone their skills, like the game was meant to do. Maybe then we can look forward to an actual challenge, yeah, let's bring 90 % of weapons up to the S simulor's level, so this game can become even LESS challenging. Makes sense.

In many sorties or anything else beyond lvl 100, weapons aren't the most important anymore. CC and scaling abilities are the carrying things here. So this argument is invalid. I will never seat back and desperately fail sorties because of a primary.

[(PSN)GearMonster1]

The Simulor is fine where it is more or less. It is very close to achieving something that we should be seeing more of in this game. This gun should continue working this way as intended, more or less as a yardstick for things to come.

 

I can look at the Simulor and see that it's not as close to explosive weapons as it's being compared to which is showing me that it really is achieving something. This is a good sign showing me that the Simulor is on the right track to something different, like how an apple is just a bit different than an orange.

 

If someone would like to know more about this, just post here asking me for it. I gotta work with this keyboard I spilled something on(Haven't had a chance to pick up another yet), I am sure I can point out a few things showing that this weapon is moving closer to the right direction.

Edited January 9, 2016 by (PS4)GearMonster1

[dmirtygorachyov]

Nah, Tonkor is still the King.

Use it with a Tailwind Zephyr and obliterate the Map in seconds. Up to level 80 you don't even need to move around.

 

Im pretty sure the tonkor can do this with half the effort, Lol joking, it doesn't happen, because the tonkor is over rated.

 

EZ 3min T4ex

 

 

Ez Lvl 100 defense

 

 

https://youtu.be/cPE9Gm40HCY?t=154 (time stamped for tldr, damage done is also at the end)

 

No gun should take this little effort and give so much reward.

 

In b4 randoms start staying LOL I CAN DO THAT WITH A TONKOR EVEN FASTER. there is an abundance of proof of how bad this weapon is for a third person shooter. Acceptance will come eventually, even if it is 1 year from now.

 

 

And when it gets nerfed and no one uses it? What then, gloat? I guess when everyone is dying and cannot finish sorties, or take part in T4 s, or raids, and the small percentage of skilled players are all by themselves wondering why they are playing solo and Warframe gets a reputation as unfun, then it will be fun? Because hitscan and endless enemy spawns ratcheting up to 100 and higher with no weapon that CC them to counter Eximus or Nullfiers isn't fun.

Instead it seems you should be asking for a Tigris buff, rather than one more nerf to get at players you don't like due to them choosing to run with something powerful that isn't a Penta, or Tonkor, or Soma Prime. Dragging the top ten percent down to the MR trash isn't fixing anything if the enemy are still going to run with stats meant for the hour mark and higher, where dragging the 90 percent of the garbage guns up to the used ten percent would be better for everyone.

TL;DR All you're doing is taking one more weapon and sending it into the MR trash bin, rather than better use of time in lifting up your gun of choice to a level where players want to use it, rather than forcing them to be unhappy lost in a inventory of uselessness. So the follow up should be placing a ceiling on the enemy so you can balance the guns...completely negating the reason players enjoy Warframe, due to the math needed for that extra ten percent damage that you can squeeze out to get another twenty minutes in a two hour survival.

 

As far as I can tell, everyone thinks the tigris/soma/hek is the cannon sent by god, even though I'm convinced its a*TRIGGER WARNING* sheit weapons.

 

Currently the endgame for warframe is just dumb, it doesn't play  like a third person shooter at all. Most raids come to bashing 4, and if the EV trin dies, everyone starts dying because they don't know the slightest thing about shooting. We shouldn't be asking for nerfs or buffs, we should be asking for better gun play. This game is a third person shooter, and it is become less of it as time passes, lessening the actual use of weapons over all. Thats the reason people can't see that this weapon is op, because they generally don't even use weapons to begin with. I mean who needs weapons when you can CC everything indefinitely and run through raids without even bringing a gun? Who needs to abuse mobility if you can just sit under Frost's infinite scaling shield and never die, and never fail your mission regardless of how shiet your aiming/weapon is.

 

I get how agitated you guys get when we talk about balance, but jumping to the conclusion that I want nerfs is just wrong. I want warframe to become more fun, and currently, the endgame isn't really that at all. 

Raids go like, sit on point X, bash 4. Wait till everyone finishes doing their timesink stuff. Repeat at next section. Gunplay not included. Survival/defense/excavation, sit in corner, Bash 3/4 till 180 minutes. Sabotage, run everywhere, dumpster the boss, run out. 

Exterminate might be the only mode which doesn't really involve cheese, but with the new spawns we may aswell kill ourselves.

Edited January 9, 2016 by dmirtygorachyov

[bubbabenali]

Im pretty sure the tonkor can do this with half the effort, Lol joking, it doesn't happen, because the tonkor is over rated.

 

EZ 3min T4ex

 

 

Ez Lvl 100 defense

 

 

https://youtu.be/cPE9Gm40HCY?t=154 (time stamped for tldr, damage done is also at the end)

I know the Sortie was piss ez right, I did it melee only.

 

Btw, aren't you ashamed to only have a few more kills than the Tonkor guy, while the other S Simulor user conveniently is a Mag Prime spaming Shild Polarize the whole time to get his kills?

[dmirtygorachyov]

I know the Sortie was piss ez right, I did it melee only.

 

Btw, aren't you ashamed to only have a few more kills than the Tonkor guy, while the other S Simulor user conveniently is a Mag Prime spaming Shild Polarize the whole time to get his kills?

 

Look at the score at the end of the video, Mag is using a synoid aswell. If you are comparing the weapon to the frame, then I should be allowed to use mirage without being judged. The whole game is piss easy, all missions in this game are practically unfailable, that doesn't mean that all weapons are balanced. I purposely didn't use mirage just so it wouldnt trigger the SYNOID ISNT OP, MIREJ MEK ENY WEPON STRONK argument. If you compared the start scoreboard to the end, I earned 100 kills while the tonkor earned 40 (the difference between the first scoreboard and the end scoreboard). I afked for the first 10 waves because defense is the biggest timesink, I was optimising my OBS settings while making sure my shield never dies.

 

That's end game for you guys folks. Not sure what its going to take to convince players that this gun is broken.

Edited January 9, 2016 by dmirtygorachyov

[bubbabenali]

Look at the score at the end of the video, Mag is using a synoid aswell. If you are comparing the weapon to the frame, then I should be allowed to use mirage without being judged.

I did. The point is, Mag didn't need the S Simulor to get the kills and your S Simulor Perfomance wasn't that outstanding, considering how more powerfull you made sound it against the Tonkor.

[dmirtygorachyov]

I did. The point is, Mag didn't need the S Simulor to get the kills and your S Simulor Perfomance wasn't that outstanding, considering how more powerfull you made sound it against the Tonkor.

 

Can you fit mag into the primary weapon slot like a weapon? Then why are you talking about the frame vs a primary weapon?