dmirtygorachyov Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) duped Edited January 19, 2016 by dmirtygorachyov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshmellory Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 What can we do about this? We can add a new game mode/ change defense . Instead of defending a cryo pod (which makes frost an extreme necessity) we can treat it as a defend yourself type game mode, an exterminate/survival hybrid. You have to defend yourself (no cryopod or objective) until you run out of revives, and then you get rewarded based on how well you did. Spawns get faster/harder, but it fuels a multiplier that increases the quality of your loot. This mode will encourage a balance between survivability, dps, and supports as players would have to deal with defending themselves and damaging enemies, creating more thought out team compositions. Having too much DPS would make it more risk/reward, having more survivability would reduce the speed which you gain loot, so it is up to the player to choose which path/composition they want. sooooo...... survival???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmirtygorachyov Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 sooooo...... survival???? Survival ignores your kills, this won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceColdHawk Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 What can we do about this? We can add a new game mode/ change defense . Instead of defending a cryo pod (which makes frost an extreme necessity) we can treat it as a defend yourself type game mode, an exterminate/survival hybrid. You have to defend yourself (no cryopod or objective) until you run out of revives, and then you get rewarded based on how well you did. Spawns get faster/harder, but it fuels a multiplier that increases the quality of your loot. This mode will encourage a balance between survivability, dps, and supports as players would have to deal with defending themselves and damaging enemies, creating more thought out team compositions. Having too much DPS would make it more risk/reward, having more survivability would reduce the speed which you gain loot, so it is up to the player to choose which path/composition they want. Hm, i've actually always dreamed for a game mode like this. Survival turned me off because of that annoying life support system. Problem is, the game will probably never reward you for real effort. Because all good gamers out there can get their fresh loot with ease instead of grinding their butts off. That's the problem of f2p games, they will make looses. Either grind or buy to speed up. But why buy stuff when you can get it with a bit of skill usage? Even though i'd like to have this to replace the current survival, it won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleerr2 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 @DelialFallen and @rawr1254 Why do you guys even bother at this point?? After this specific claim: Defense/survival= easy/abusable = terrible rewards/droprate Sabotage/exterminate = harder/not abusable= better rewards/droprate. He literally lost any kind of credibility he ever had... He honestly believes that Sab/Ext are "HARD''(Can you possibly believe this nonsense?!), and he thinks they are also ''NOT ABUSABLE'' (As if you cannot bring the meta right up in that shi...), and to top it all off, he is oblivious(as always) to the fact, that the mission rewards directly correlate to the Trade system and every sellable item's price(and yet, he belives ''more rewards'' will happen...). Any further arguments of any kind, with this individual, is void of reason, or by all means sanity... - - - - - I am baffled by the fact that the moderators allowed this meta complaint thread to reach 27 whole pages, i've always though meta complaints were Deleted/Locked at a moments notice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmirtygorachyov Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) @DelialFallen and @rawr1254 Why do you guys even bother at this point?? After this specific claim: He literally lost any kind of credibility he ever had... He honestly believes that Sab/Ext are "HARD''(Can you possibly believe this nonsense?!), and he thinks they are also ''NOT ABUSABLE'' (As if you cannot bring the meta right up in that shi...), and to top it all off, he is oblivious(as always) to the fact, that the mission rewards directly correlate to the Trade system and every sellable item's price(and yet, he belives ''more rewards'' will happen...). Any further arguments of any kind, with this individual, is void of reason, or by all means sanity... - - - - - I am baffled by the fact that the moderators allowed this meta complaint thread to reach 27 whole pages, i've always though meta complaints were Deleted/Locked at a moments notice... I said it is "harder" (relative term, relative to endless cheese modes), reading words actually make a difference in discussions. Again you missed the point about drop rates and time taken to farm loot. So no actual argument was made in this post. The rewards don't correlate to the trade system, the trade system correlates to the rewards. Loki sys is 20 plat even though the drops are pretty common because the majority doesn't play sabotage. Ash chassis is junk because everyone sinks their time in survival. I have already proven that difficult does correlate to rewards in some way in Warframe. The only thing you have proven is your inability to read. Again if sabotage is abusable, please show me how to abuse it. I really would like to know. Is there a button I can press to find all the caches? Hm, i've actually always dreamed for a game mode like this. Survival turned me off because of that annoying life support system. Problem is, the game will probably never reward you for real effort. Because all good gamers out there can get their fresh loot with ease instead of grinding their butts off. That's the problem of f2p games, they will make looses. Either grind or buy to speed up. But why buy stuff when you can get it with a bit of skill usage? Even though i'd like to have this to replace the current survival, it won't happen. It can happen, if the combat actually takes skill, and wasn't just a press X fest. Also it doesn't have to replace survival, it can be a new mode entirely. Edited January 19, 2016 by dmirtygorachyov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawr1254 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmirtygorachyov Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Thats a meme I haven't seen in some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Snappy-D93 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 INB4 locked ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelialFallen Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Defense/survival= easy/abusable = terrible rewards/droprate Sabotage/exterminate = harder/not abusable= better rewards/droprate. Sentinels= harder= more neurodes/resources Heiracon=harder= better rewards. Thats how they demonstrate. You said defense might be harder, but you never said how. -snip- So... What you are affirming is essentially that because you can't 'cheese' Exterminate and Sabotage, they are harder and because they can be completed more quickly, they give quicker loot. As this demonstrates a correlation, nerfing Energy is a good thing because we would get better/faster rewards due to the increase in difficulty. -- That's your argument. I'm afraid I can't contribute to the discussion then and wish you the best on your wacky adventures friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soketsu Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 So... What you are affirming is essentially that because you can't 'cheese' Exterminate and Sabotage, they are harder and because they can be completed more quickly, they give quicker loot. As this demonstrates a correlation, nerfing Energy is a good thing because we would get better/faster rewards due to the increase in difficulty. -- That's your argument. I'm afraid I can't contribute to the discussion then and wish you the best on your wacky adventures friend. Your patience is impressive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious_Vipa Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 It seems some of you don't get the point at all. The current issue isn't merely Trinity, it's about ability usage and energy dependence in general, hence making EV Trin mandatory for most players. This specific problem brings other ones with it: how is it possible that the longer you play, the less skill you need? Endgame players simply spam abilities and replicate the same googled builds, staying safe inside the Frost bubble while using the same AoE weapons, standing still and barely playing the game at all. All of that ends up taking away the "ninja", tactical and fast-paced aspect of the game, taking away the necessity of having at least decent aim, reaction time and knowledge about how to approach the enemies. This is not about which specific weapons and frames are "OP", it's not about freely nerfing or buffing raw stats and abilities. At least the majority of weapons should be made usable for late/endgame, energy reliance should be heavily reduced without taking away our freedom to use abilities when we want to. These changes would increase frame, builds and weapon variety, demanding more raw skill from players, improving the game difficulty in a completely fun and fair way. As a side effect, new frames, weapons and mods would almost always be widely accepted since in this situation the meta becomes very weak or basically nonexistent, even improving our feedback because players would only criticise truly OP or weak weapons/frames instead of whining about everything they don't personally like. This will be a big challenge for DE, but I trust them and sincerely hope they'll be able to do it, at this point nerfing and buffing singular aspects of the game for too long would only progressively make it all worse. @Edit: I forgot to mention that with these suggestions, even during the endgame abilities would feel special again, like "Now I'm gonna use this really cool ability" instead of mindlessly spamming them like disposable tools. There's even a little room for buffs/improvements since they wouldn't be spammable, bringing even more relevance to them without breaking the game. this is actually a VERY good post. I especially like the bold parts. Also, people are very simple - I just have to look at myself: currently I am farming the Pluto Excarvation (XP, keys and cores) with the Valkyr and I am using the 4th ability like 99% of the time. Nobody can kill me. (Aren't there any energy leeches???) and because of my modded melee weapon and slide attacks my hysteria actually is pretty strong, instantly killing even lvl 100 ancients. (btw, I don't even have fleeting expertise or other good stuff.) My point is: I wanted to report this because in the long run it kills the fun and makes the game dull. but my first reflex was: wait until THIS or THAT weapon got its last Forma, etc. so that they don't fix it before. HAHA I am so simple - people are so simple: They want to play a challenging game - but they want to make their life as simple as possible, acting within the permitted limits - but using every exploit they can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kusariyaro Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Instead of nerfing strong frames, give peole alternative is why i always push for. Make oberon usefull as Trinity to see support scene space a bit. We just need alternatives in which people can find what they like more. Having 3 frames for every mission(except spy) kills the point of having so many frames... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawr1254 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) Instead of nerfing strong frames, give peole alternative is why i always push for. Make oberon usefull as Trinity to see support scene space a bit. We just need alternatives in which people can find what they like more. Having 3 frames for every mission(except spy) kills the point of having so many frames... I think the only way to make Oberon close to what Trinity does it to make Renewals channeling cost INSANELY low while giving whoevers affected by it Quick Thinking which drains Oberons energy or own health when they're about to go down. The problem with Oberon is everyone winds up dieing unlike with Trinity. She can give the damage reduction to save others or keep them from dieing. Oberon can reduce the bleedout timer but it still needs to reach the downed ally which makes no one feel like using it. Plus the insane channeling costs. Edited January 19, 2016 by rawr1254 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSMatticus Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Instead of nerfing strong frames, give peole alternative is why i always push for. Make oberon usefull as Trinity to see support scene space a bit. We just need alternatives in which people can find what they like more. Having 3 frames for every mission(except spy) kills the point of having so many frames... We aren't talking about problems with the game's diversity. We are talking about how unengaging the "best" (for a definition of best that is "gives the most rewards per unit time") way to play the game is. Making Oberon competitive with Trinity (... how? Trinity already gives infinite energy, has a global full heal, and can give 99% damage reduction - how could you possibly make a support frame better than that that wasn't "I push 4 and everyone turns into Valkyr with guns"?) would not make the cheese-ridden spamfests go away. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that we need better frame balance, too. It's just a different topic than the one this thread wants to discuss. Buffs for weak frames definitely won't add difficulty back into the game or get rid of the cookie clicker style of gameplay that Warframe encourages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Danielle Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I think we can all agree that this thread has gone on beyond it's intended life span. Please remember that when providing feedback and replying to players you should always post details on what exactly is wrong and how you feel it should be remedied. Thank you to those who were respectful and worked to keep the discussion civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts