Soma P. V Boltor P.

[TruZender]

Yup, this argument again. With the introduction of Argon Scope I think it is the Soma Prime can now do red crits and some people are talking about a new tier of crits somewhere up there. Do you guys think red crits on the Soma P. make it possibly better than the Boltor P.? (Can someone do some damage testing in game cause I can't and oh I don't know maybe spare me this and/or a blood rush... jk jk)

[Autongnosis]

/damage per shot or damage per sec?

Because you shouldn't care about damage per sec at all using bows.

Per trigger pull to be specific. For example, in a Rakta Cernos build (serration, split chamber, point strike, vital sense, two elements), the average damage values per trigger pull with the respective combination of the two free mod slots (assuming you have access to a third element, Argon Scope, Bladed Rounds, and a maxed Heavy Caliber), are:

- 26k with 3rd element and Argon Scope

- 28k with 3rd element and Bladed Rounds

- 30k with 3rd element and Heavy Caliber

- 31k with Argon Scope and Bladed Rounds

- 32k with Heavy Caliber and Argon Scope

- 35k with Bladed Rounds and Heavy Caliber

The divide gets worse when you factor in the possibility of using Avenger, making the chart above:

- 31k with 3rd element and Argon Scope

- 36k with 3rd element and Bladed Rounds

- 37k with Argon Scope and Bladed Rounds

- 38k with 3rd element and Heavy Caliber

- 38k with Heavy Caliber and Argon Scope

- 45k with Bladed Rounds and Heavy Caliber

EDIT: technically speaking, Argon Scope does have a use, but only without Heavy Caliber and only if you use it with Bladed Rounds. Also do mind that the other bows do not have access to this combo, because they also have to slot a +firerate mod for charge speed or they'll be stuck with the base 1s charge time.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Autongnosis

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Tonkor, it red crits now.

My tonkor red critted before this update

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

Yup, this argument again. With the introduction of Argon Scope I think it is the Soma Prime can now do red crits and some people are talking about a new tier of crits somewhere up there. Do you guys think red crits on the Soma P. make it possibly better than the Boltor P.? (Can someone do some damage testing in game cause I can't and oh I don't know maybe spare me this and/or a blood rush... jk jk)

The only way the boltor was ever > the soma is if you're hitting every boltor shot. Typically the projectiles make that hard, so.

[motorolaflipphone]

Well thank you sir, and verdict is Soma Prime>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boltor Prime just as it has always been and always will be.

That's not how you spell amprex > anything else

[ClinkzEastwood]

Per trigger pull to be specific. For example, in a Rakta Cernos build (serration, split chamber, point strike, vital sense, two elements), the average damage values per trigger pull with the respective combination of the two free mod slots (assuming you have access to a third element, Argon Scope, Bladed Rounds, and a maxed Heavy Caliber), are:

- 26k with 3rd element and Argon Scope

- 28k with 3rd element and Bladed Rounds

- 30k with 3rd element and Heavy Caliber

- 31k with Argon Scope and Bladed Rounds

- 32k with Heavy Caliber and Argon Scope

- 35k with Bladed Rounds and Heavy Caliber

The divide gets worse when you factor in the possibility of using Avenger, making the chart above:

- 31k with 3rd element and Argon Scope

- 36k with 3rd element and Bladed Rounds

- 37k with Argon Scope and Bladed Rounds

- 38k with 3rd element and Heavy Caliber

- 38k with Heavy Caliber and Argon Scope

- 45k with Bladed Rounds and Heavy Caliber

EDIT: technically speaking, Argon Scope does have a use, but only without Heavy Caliber and only if you use it with Bladed Rounds. Also do mind that the other bows do not have access to this combo, because they also have to slot a +firerate mod for charge speed or they'll be stuck with the base 1s charge time.

No, you don't count average damage for bows. You count damage per shot.They are precise weapons. If you actually want spam weapons that can kill cluster of enemies you better of using Synoid Simulor, Tonkor or any AoE class weapons. The whole idea of bow/sniper rifle is reliablity and consistency. which make one shot kill important.

Also dps on paper is different from actual usage inside the game. This is why the concept of "Time to kill" is important. With not rounded crit chance, you actually have a chance to shot twice to kill the target, which effectively decrease the damage output you can actually deal. Rounding crit chance is crucial to slow firing and accurate weapons.

Another example on dps on paper=/=actual dps is that in theory vile acceleration is incredibly goon on Rakta Cernos, but no one actually think about using it since bows are not spray and pray weapon and they actually need to aim before pulling the shot so they can't utilize the dps anyway.

Semi related I actually liked using Paris prime instead of Dread despise lower crit chance for the same reason. Rounded crit chance matters, odd chance does not.

[SaintLucifer]

Just use the one you have more fun playing with. Is not like Warframe mobs are even that though that you need to worry with stat min maxing that much after all.

[ClinkzEastwood]

That's not how you spell amprex > anything else

"Amprex" is a strange nick name for Synoid Simulor.

[KotoKuraken]

Try out the Braton Prime with a crit build. It can compete (maybe surpass?) the Soma Prime

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Moved to Players Helping Players subforum.

[TruZender]

Can anyone get concrete damage numbers on these weapons pl0x (not just the dread)

[Sloan441]

Mostly, it's the choice between hitscan vs. projectile.

 

The new mods make for some interesting possibilities with the SomaP. However, that gun is already strapped for mod slots, so we'll have to see. Presently, you have to give up critical (ahem) mods to experiment. If...and I mean IF...we get base damage scaling with Weapons 2.0, then we might see some interesting things from the SomaP. And yes, Argon Scope might potentially replace HC if your aim is true.

 

Not sure how the BratonP got into this thread, but it's no SomaP under any circumstances. It's not that far off, but it'll never eclipse the SomaP. Also, crit builds on the BratonP are inferior to normal HC/elemental builds and grossly inferior to HC/elemental/VA builds. RoF trumps low crit percentages. This might change with Weapons 2.0, but possibly everything will change with Weapons 2.0, so there's not much use speculating.

[Autongnosis]

No, you don't count average damage for bows. You count damage per shot.They are precise weapons. If you actually want spam weapons that can kill cluster of enemies you better of using Synoid Simulor, Tonkor or any AoE class weapons. The whole idea of bow/sniper rifle is reliablity and consistency. which make one shot kill important.

Also dps on paper is different from actual usage inside the game. This is why the concept of "Time to kill" is important. With not rounded crit chance, you actually have a chance to shot twice to kill the target, which effectively decrease the damage output you can actually deal. Rounding crit chance is crucial to slow firing and accurate weapons.

Another example on dps on paper=/=actual dps is that in theory vile acceleration is incredibly goon on Rakta Cernos, but no one actually think about using it since bows are not spray and pray weapon and they actually need to aim before pulling the shot so they can't utilize the dps anyway.

Semi related I actually liked using Paris prime instead of Dread despise lower crit chance for the same reason. Rounded crit chance matters, odd chance does not.

U wot?

This rambling has no relarion whatsoever to what i wrote. Average damage is wildly different from DPS you know right? Where did i mention DPS? It's the damage per trigger pull, averaged over te chance of not critting/critting/redcritting and firing one or two arrows. Simple as that.

Also, VA looks like a good increase only on the burst value of the builder. If you use the builder for actual damage calculations... Well... Let's say it's nowhere near accurate enough.

On top of that i don't understand what you mean by crit rounding. Rounding means something and i'm pretty sure that's not what you mean, cause if it is 90% of your post doesn't make sense.

On top of that, if you want to get 100% crit chance for reliability, on Cernos at least Avenger is better than any of the other options. Argon Scope is barely a placeholder for that. One that burns you a mod slot and hits your base damage at that.

Let alone for the fact tat we're assuming you can proc Argon Scope and keep it up the shole game which is not exactly the case, while Bladed Rounds can and wil be up all game.

Bottom line is, i will not do again a full spread comparison just to cinvince you sorry. No way.

EDIT: also, you have to use averages to compare. Else how you're gonna account for the chance of not critting/not redcritting/firing only one arrow exactly? With love and rainbows? XD

Edited January 29, 2016 by Autongnosis

[ClinkzEastwood]

U wot?

This rambling has no relarion whatsoever to what i wrote. Average damage is wildly different from DPS you know right? Where did i mention DPS? It's the damage per trigger pull, averaged over te chance of not critting/critting/redcritting and firing one or two arrows. Simple as that.

Also, VA looks like a good increase only on the burst value of the builder. If you use the builder for actual damage calculations... Well... Let's say it's nowhere near accurate enough.

On top of that i don't understand what you mean by crit rounding. Rounding means something and i'm pretty sure that's not what you mean, cause if it is 90% of your post doesn't make sense.

On top of that, if you want to get 100% crit chance for reliability, on Cernos at least Avenger is better than any of the other options. Argon Scope is barely a placeholder for that. One that burns you a mod slot and hits your base damage at that.

Let alone for the fact tat we're assuming you can proc Argon Scope and keep it up the shole game which is not exactly the case, while Bladed Rounds can and wil be up all game.

Bottom line is, i will not do again a full spread comparison just to cinvince you sorry. No way.

EDIT: also, you have to use averages to compare. Else how you're gonna account for the chance of not critting/not redcritting/firing only one arrow exactly? With love and rainbows? XD

Not everybody has Avenger. It's one of the rarer Arcane out there. It shouldn't be an option when we talk about average use.

You can proc Argon Scope easily. All you have to do is aim.

You don't account the chance of not critting/not red critting when you always crit. That's why having 100% crit/red crit chance matters.

Multishot is much trickier tho. 90% but you can't increase it.

[Swailwort]

Prisma Grakata. Dakka Dakka and more viable than Soma P because of Status.

Or you know, Tonkor with Bladed Rounds because OP is underrated.