Let’S Put An End To The Carrier Prime Master Race

[Hypernaut1]

tl;dr other companions are good when you're lacking a proper setup. Or did I miss the memo saying that starchart notes have had their difficulty boosted by 4500% ?

Oh and also I had this one drop that happens once every full moon so it's definitely good !

I surely have missed the totally exclusive ability that allows one of those two companions to proc aoe viral damage. An ability so exclusive I didn't even heard of it.

"Lacking a proper setup" - no, if you HAVE a proper setup then vacuum is a waste of a utility slot. It does something that I can easily do good enough for myself.

Yes Sahasa is useful. It does dig up mods, but at this point it is rare that I need any mod that drops. My point ilustrated that sahasa can actually increase your drops if you're hunting for mods.

Yes, starchart can be difficult for new players when they have to solo. Huras is one of the best defensice tools in the game, even for a vet. It reliably cloaks you when around enemies, hacking, reviving teammates. Its rare that I would ever find vacuum more useful than that. From my perspective its almost silly, as I am perfectly able to get the drops I need in game by myself without issue.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[GhostFeng]

Part of the problem is it takes some considerable investment to make them worthwhile over carrier. Also, the game never gives you a compelling reason to go outside your comfort zone and try them.

 

Basically, I don't blame the carrier. I blame the other companions.

 

The exact solution that we have suggested would make the other companions more useful and give players a reason to use them. So why exactly are you arguing against it?

[NKDG]

I'll compare this to a few other older games: the Lego games, and ratchet and clank

In the Lego games, stud magnet (the carrier equivalent) is a red brick. (Basically an extra cheat you find somewhere ingame) Now imagine if you couldn't use any other red brick (all the others are just extra good stuff save for the stud multipliers) when you turned on the magnet. That would suck right? That's what carrier's doing here.

Now think of ratchet and clank. Ratchet ALWAYS has a bolt magnet. Even with the MUCH slower pace of that game, it's still a godsend cause i don't have to deal with looking for all the loot!

Hope these examples help in showing why a universal vacuum is a good idea! (Prolly didn't, but oh well)

Edited February 8, 2016 by NKDG

[Stormdragon]

The exact solution that we have suggested would make the other companions more useful and give players a reason to use them. So why exactly are you arguing against it?

Not in my opinion. Making all precepts available for any sentinel, even with restrictions to avoid multifunctional sentinels, would only lead to carriers everywher, but with different precepts based on player needs. This because carrier prime seems to be the tankiest sentinel, and making him able to get whatever utility would only make players choose him because of his survability, making the problem even bigger instead of solving it.

off topic: now I'd like a kubrow with "investigator" precept, which makes the kubrow look for non scanned stuff and smell it to add it to codex

Edited February 8, 2016 by -----LegioN-----

[ShortCat]

You calling people lazy because you have a different opinion than them doesn't do much for your opinion. That has already been discussed in the very thread you are replying to. Also calling players "bad" because they realize that Carrier's usefulness surpasses that of other sentinels, not doing much for you either. I can easily argue that Carrier's shotgun can be quickly built to provide as much CC, if not more, as every "CC" sentinel in the game, while still having the convenience of Carrier's Vacuum.

First, Carrier cannot do CC, due to insufficient status stat and full IPS damage on the weapon. Thus, it is only used for its Vacuum. This does not provide any advantages in combat, compared to any other Sentinal, only some handy gimmick.

 

And again I come to the point, where I can say there are choices in the game concerning companions. If you say there are no choices and Carrier is the best, you are a bad player. It may be best for you, but not for many other players. Stop generalizing.

 

 Heck, if I wanted to I could call players that need that much extra CC in this game "bad" but I'm not going to because I'm not that kind of person and I understand that we all have different ways of playing the game. It has already been shown that there is a clear problem in Warframe with the sheer majority of players who use Carrier more than any other sentinel. DE has addressed the problem and we are here addressing the problem in this thread. Because you are one of the minority that find the specific use of one of the other sentinels more useful to you than Carrier's Vacuum, that's great, you are a minority in this game. It does not change that there is a clearly defined problem with the outclassed usefulness of Carrier compared to every other sentinel in the game among the majority of players.

I call this players "bad", not because they use it, but because they fail to see advantages provided by other companions and tag Carrier as "the Best", which is situational at best.

[Sygnano]

First, Carrier cannot do CC, due to insufficient status stat and full IPS damage on the weapon

 

TIL you can't swap sentinels weapons

TIL having CC on a sentinel is absolutely fantastic and brings an edge this game has never seen before

 

 

And again I come to the point, where I can say there are choices in the game concerning companions. If you say there are no choices and Carrier is the best, you are a bad player. It may be best for you, but not for many other players. Stop generalizing.

 

The fact that Carrier is the best is because there ARE choices, and they happen to be garbage. Carrier has atleast the decency to bring a stat the frames can't have.

 

"Lacking a proper setup" - no, if you HAVE a proper setup then vacuum is a waste of a utility slot. It does something that I can easily do good enough for myself.

 

"If you happen to be rolling on the game, then vacuum is inferior to other stuff companion provide, such as things allowing you to roll the game, which you already do*."

[TangyBlueBerry]

Carrier is NOT necessary- please stop parroting that nonsense.

1. I rarely NEED all of the drops in most missions i play. I rarely run out of ammo, im usually good on energy, dont depend on health orbs to survive.

2. Its truly not hard to run over orbs if I do want them. No, it doesnt wildly throw off my offense. You guys exaggerate way too much.

3. I find djinn, helios(with weakspot mod), diriga far more useful at times.

Djin mesmerizes entire crowds, helios scans and shows banshee-like weakspots on enemies, diriga is great at stunning high priority targets. A loot vacuum just isnt always that important in this game.

4. Drops are really not that important after youve reached a certain level of play in this game.

If you're stuck on using carrier, you're doing yourself a disservice.

 

You have never played a game with me, so judging my playstyle is not something you want to be doing.

 

You don't have any less fun without it,but the fact that Carrier is so popular proves it is a highly desired effect on a damn loot/drop focused game. Because if I don't, like all the jokes I said, I would have to stop flying above your underground head to pick up that bloody ammo drum.

 

Yes I need that ammo drum, I need every friggin drop, all of them. That do I need the 5th Power Throw drop in the same survival void mission? You bet your sweet &#! I do. Do I need those 3 Warm Coats sitting over there by the corner? I want to be as snugly as a stinking red panda in the arms of a damn sloth.

 

I would love to use my kubrow over Carrier, but my dog is not justified enough to stop picking up every single little bit of tiny insy weensy resource.

[TangyBlueBerry]

This is not a Carrier problem, it is a player problem.

 

If someone thinks Carrier is the best companion, he/she is just a bad player. Period.

How can Vacuum be better than my Diriga/Helios with high Status Chance distributing radiation/viral procs all over the map?

 

People are just lazy, that is the story.

 

How nice of you to judge other people based on an item they use. Tell what do you think of people who like Rhino? What about Boltor Prime? Tonkor? Any version of Hek? Users of Jat Kittag? Perma 99% blessing Trins? Loki users? Limbo users?

 

No please by all means, judge people over their preferred choice of equipment.

[TangyBlueBerry]

And again I come to the point, where I can say there are choices in the game concerning companions. If you say there are no choices and Carrier is the best, you are a bad player. It may be best for you, but not for many other players. Stop generalizing.

 

I call this players "bad", not because they use it, but because they fail to see advantages provided by other companions and tag Carrier as "the Best", which is situational at best.

 

Stop Generalizing

 

Oh the sweet hypocrisy.

 

Mind you I have never talked about other sentinels or kubrows. I don't have a problem with any of them and am fully aware of what they can bring to the table as well as why they are good. IMO all other sents and doges are in a fine spot. Its just the convenience of carrier is much higher than the rest.

 

I want to talk about Carrier, not the other sents.

[Hypernaut1]

How nice of you to judge other people based on an item they use. Tell what do you think of people who like Rhino? What about Boltor Prime? Tonkor? Any version of Hek? Users of Jat Kittag? Perma 99% blessing Trins? Loki users? Limbo users?

 

No please by all means, judge people over their preferred choice of equipment.

Preferring carrier is one thing, claiming that its absolutely necessary is what's ridiculous

[Inmemoratus]

 

Stop Generalizing

 

Oh the sweet hypocrisy.

 

Mind you I have never talked about other sentinels or kubrows. I don't have a problem with any of them and am fully aware of what they can bring to the table as well as why they are good. IMO all other sents and doges are in a fine spot. Its just the convenience of carrier is much higher than the rest.

 

I want to talk about Carrier, not the other sents.

 

It's almost as if Carrier was designed to specialize in convenience.

 

Also, it turns out that a convenience is by definition not a necessity. Food is a necessity, not a convenience. A car is a convenience, not a necessity.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[TangyBlueBerry]

It's almost as if Carrier was designed to specialize in convenience.

 

Which, oddly enough, is the most desired effect :O

[Inmemoratus]

Which, oddly enough, is the most desired effect :O

 

I think that's fine. Like I said, I see no problem with the popularity of Carrier.

 

I could see a benefit to somehow encouraging players to try the other companions by making them appear more worthwhile either by making the investment required less daunting (I mean seriously, ranking up another set of gun mods??) or making their effects more powerful to justify that investment. I've got almost 800 hours in this game and only now I feel ready to really invest in companions.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[GhostFeng]

It's almost as if Carrier was designed to specialize in convenience.

 

v

 

Which, oddly enough, is the most desired effect :O

 

^ ^ ^

 

Not in my opinion. Making all precepts available for any sentinel, even with restrictions to avoid multifunctional sentinels, would only lead to carriers everywher, but with different precepts based on player needs. This because carrier prime seems to be the tankiest sentinel, and making him able to get whatever utility would only make players choose him because of his survability, making the problem even bigger instead of solving it.

 

It seems as though page 5 of the thread needs to be refreshed on its updates so that everyone understands what they are replying to. My first post of this thread was previously updated with the current suggestion. I stated there that my original idea in the first post was simply my idea for how we can solve the Carrier Prime master race problem in Warframe. Other players have made suggestions that they feel are a better way to solve the problem. Currently, Pizzarugi has posted the best way to solve the problem, along with the way that makes most sense given Carrier's name:

 

 

I made this suggestion on another thread:

1. Make vacuum usable on all sentinels.

2. Give carrier the ability to "store" excess items you pick up, up to 100 of anything you collect. If you have full energy, using an ability will cause the carrier to drop an energy orb on you. If you reload 55 bullets into your soma prime, your carrier will drop 55 rifle bullets on you.

It is called carrier, so this new ability fits its name.

 

^ This is the current suggestion that I have been referring to, and here is the response that I gave to his idea:

 

^ Best suggestion yet. Every sentinel becomes as useful as Carrier is now (worth using) and Carrier keeps it's name's functionality while becoming even more useful. Everyone that complains that they don't use Carrier because they don't want ammo and energy wasted when Carrier tops them off for 1 energy or 1 ammo, now Carrier would store the excess and give it to you when you need it. On ability use would be a good way to ensure the excess energy is not wasted and I'm sure a system for delivering ammo could easily be devised as well.

 

 

And while I am refreshing memories on this thread, I would like to take the time to draw attention back to the hard work, dedication, and professional quality artwork that our own Sygnano has presented in his official schema of scientific findings of the player experience when using Carrier vs. when not using Carrier:

 

except that convenience IS a good argument for it. Here's a quick schema i've done :

 

 

 

[Viedra_Lavinova]

I'm tired of Carrier Prime Master Race tbh. the game feels more lackluster because of how mandatory vacuum can be.

[Hellmaker2004]

A good question would be, if we set the loot radius to the default of maxed Vacuum. What would be the worst that could happen. People go from 80% Carrier players to experiment between the different Sentinels and Kubrows? Would that really be so bad.

[Inmemoratus]

A good question would be, if we set the loot radius to the default of maxed Vacuum. What would be the worst that could happen. People go from 80% Carrier players to experiment between the different Sentinels and Kubrows? Would that really be so bad.

 

People who want more fine control of energy/ammo pickups in order to carefully ration them wouldn't like that. There are a number of people who posted in this thread that they avoid using carrier for that exact reason. So a huge increase to the baseline pickup radius is not the most ideal solution for every player.

 

Alternatives (other mods or companions with the same power, not a baseline increase) wouldn't exactly hurt anyone, but I argue against it because I remain unconvinced of the necessity of this utility. And like I said, convenience (eg. a car) =/= necessity (eg. food).

Edited February 8, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[Hellmaker2004]

Change it so the auto pickup is only Vacuum range on mods, resources, credits and affinity?

[GhostFeng]

People who want more fine control of energy/ammo pickups in order to carefully ration them wouldn't like that. There are a number of people who posted in this thread that they avoid using carrier for that exact reason. So it's not the most ideal solution for every player.

 

Alternatives (other mods or companions with the same power, not a baseline increase) wouldn't exactly hurt anyone, but I argue against it because I remain unconvinced of the necessity of this utility. And like I said, convenience (eg. a car) =/= necessity (eg. food).

 

So now those people that complain about how that is why they don't use Carrier, would now have a reason to use Carrier (resource efficiency) while the vast majority of players that use Carrier currently over any other sentinel because of its sheer usefulness, would have a reason to use every other sentinel. Win / win. Not only would this solve many of the current problems with the sentinel system, (not for everyone, but for the vast majority of players. You can't always make every single player happy) but everyone's favorite sentinel will get a new, useful ability added on top of whatever it did before that made it their favorite.

[Inmemoratus]

So now those people that complain about how that is why they don't use Carrier, would now have a reason to use Carrier (resource efficiency) while the vast majority of players that use Carrier currently over any other sentinel because of its sheer usefulness, would have a reason to use every other sentinel. Win / win. Not only would this solve many of the current problems with the sentinel system, (not for everyone, but for the vast majority of players. You can't always make every single player happy) but everyone's favorite sentinel will get a new, useful ability added on top of whatever it did before that made it their favorite.

 

I'd probably feel way more compelled to use Carrier if it gave me more ammo/energy capacity. It would feel almost mandatory to me, but it depends on which weapon/frame I'm using. I'd worry that they start to balance things around it. Like oh, yeah, Angstrum is totally fine! ...but it requires Carrier... :|

[SwooceRaiden]

Simple and ez. Remove/remake/rename carrier into new sentinel, add vacuum ability to every sentinel.

That's the most complicated solution to the "problem".

[(PSN)Xurokhan]

Enough of these threads please.

There is absolutely no reason to be concerned with another gamers playstayle, especially when it comes to companion choices.

Buff the other Sentinels. That's it.

[DrusK]

All there is on this thread is people saying "i use x sentinel/kubrow" because i think it's the best.

 

How is that an issue to anyone ಠ_ಠ

 

 

> Do you want a sentinel that vaccums loot for you ?

Good ! There is one, have fun :D

 

> Do you want a sentinel that cc enemies ?

Good ! There is one, have fun :D

 

> Do you want a sentinel that kills enemies ?

Good ! There is one, have fun :D

 

> Do you want a sentinel that makes you invisible ?

Good ! There is one, have fun :D

 

Can you spot the pattern ? Play wtf you want people xD

 

 

I myself always used Wyrm because the cc he brings saves my life so many times. Enter a room to find a heavy grineer unit about to stun you ? Nope, he bites the dust instead. Aiming at something while a sneaky prick is about to melee you in the back ? Nope, he bites the dust instead. That's why i like wyrm.

Now i turned myself to Raksa kubrow because it's basicaly a wyrm with more health.

 

^ See, that's my experience. Each and every players have a different one, and some (most?) end up playing with a carrier. No big deal.

When someone says "Not having to focus on loot makes me more abble to deal damage/go fast" well good for him, he has the perfect sentinel for his playstyle.

The peoples that use the carrier do so because it is so convenient for them. I get that, i find it convenient too. However i don't mind picking up the loot myself, warframe movements are so fast and fluid it barely makes any difference in time nor focus for me. Just confort.

 

What other people use as sentinel doesn't affect your experience in any way, anyway.

[DSpite]

The pickup range of Vacuum is exactly 10m, pickup radius for players is less than a meter.

 

It's not a crutch, nor training wheels.

 

It's a convenient necessity and a lifesaver in a game so focused on hoarding loot.

 

Does that look like "less then 1 meter" to you? It's actually over 2 Frame heights, if you go measure it.

 

[meristu]

I have shade and I am not using or going to use carrier or carrier p, this post is completely pointless and there is already kubrow who can collect loot for you