Banshee Re-Work Suggestions

[Peacemuser]

I’ve heard a lot of arguments with banshee as one of the oldest frames and how outdated it is in the sense that it hasn’t been touched since its release. People in the forums have mentioned the varying reliability with specific weapons in using sonar such as Shotguns And Explosive weapons not hitting the spots even when shot directly and precisely at them. People have also mentioned the Uselessness of Silence, the exposure of Sound Quake, and the short range crowd control from Sonic Boom.

I’m a very avid banshee user. I use her to rank up low-level gear and support lower-ranking team-members also. However, I can understand some of the frustrations, especially Silence. I always though Banshee as a frame that has an extremely high skill floor and skill ceiling, extremely high risk and reward, and is indiscriminate of the type of gear that the user have. However, we’d like to also make sure that the frame doesn’t become near impossible either, nor too easy. Therefore, I placed a couple of suggestions for each ability to ensure Banshee as such role. This list will try to focus on defensive de-buffs, team support, Stealth, and some crowd-control to help survivability, while requiring a decent amount of skill.

 

Sonic Boom: This ability is her most reliable crowd control. This allows her to give a nice window of opportunity to make shots and, with the augment, remove armor by a good margin with some power strength. However, the window is pretty small, requiring a lot of spamming. Even the debuff doesn’t seem to last that long, at least for me. Another problem involves trying to cast it around corners before being killed at higher levels. It also doesn’t seem to allow crowd-control for fairly ranged targets, mainly against Grineer Ballistas and Bombards. It would make sense if this ability is used to give time for aiming at weak-spots or to close the gap with melee.

• Enemies knocked-down will have a 15%/20%/25%/30% additive accuracy reduction/hit probability reduction (if applicable. Otherwise, make it function just like how Mirage’s eclipse in night form works) for 15/18/23/30 seconds. The accuracy reduction is affected by Power Strength. The duration is affected by Power Duration. This would provide improved crowd control for a longer duration at levels where enemies have extremely sharp aim, but only if the player uses movement properly.
• Increase the rag-doll force so that they can be pushed back enough to keep a distance for ranged combat.
• Increase the range to 13/16/20/25 m, but reduce the cone radius to 135°.
• The knock-down and armor stripping form the augment doesn’t seem to work on Manics, Executioners, Bursas, and many bosses including the Acolytes. Yet bullet-jumping and certain melee combos can rag-doll and knock them down, and the Kavat exclusive mod Sharpened Claws can strip the armor (possibly a bug?). A guarantee impact proc would compensate this. Otherwise, make it synergize with Sonic Pulse (explained below).
• Allow Sonic Boom to be a one-handed cast. This is suggested by @DrBorris.
• If desirable, make sonic boom ignore obstacles. This would give players better safety to utilize the ability, but probably lower the skill floor (might overshadow Mag's pull).
• If desired, increase the duration of sonic fracture to 4/6/8/10 seconds.
• I’m somewhat unsure if sonic fracture should affect shields also, but it might make it seems overpowered. It would be nice if she had a reasonable way to fight back against shield scaling, especially in sorties.

 

Sonar: This ability is more solid in comparison to the other abilities, rewarding skill with extra damage. However, some downsides involves acquiring specific spots on enemies. This usually involves weapons and abilities that damage only on a specific hitbox, or enemies that take damage from only one specific hit-box. There are also occasions where 5x damage actually isn’t enough. Currently, the ability relies on constant spamming of sonar spots while praying to RNG that it will stack on top of each other for exponential damage, that it lands on the head or fanny pack, or that it doesn't land on a hit-box with damage immunity. Otherwise, the enemies would basically become walking weak-spots, reducing the skill factor and the essence of the ability (the entire body cannot be a weak-spot). It could be the gear and the mods I’m using, but it would also be nice if there was a way to make stacking sonar spots easier and quicker while still requiring a reasonable amount of aim, at a reasonable cost for more energy. Another problem is that the Resonance augment is too powerful. It allows more range (sonar spots resonate from the target and not the user), more damage (stacking spots quickly), and more duration (sonar spots spread towards other new enemies spawned, and can increase the duration exponentially based on power duration) on banshee’s best ability, which makes it seem pretty mandatory. Augments were meant to be side-grades for different play-styles in consideration to replacing another mod for the augment.

• Give Banshee one of the suggested New Augment
  • Acoustic Hailing: Enemies has a 50%/75%/85%/100% chance of landing a sonar spot on the part aimed at when cast. If any of the enemies in range does not have the same hit-box layout, then the sonar spot will land towards the closest related hit-box to that body part, or based on a hierarchy of the body-part multiplier of the unit (ex: 3x multiplier part > Head > Torso > other limbs). If it’s too much coding, make it land in a random body part instead. This gives players a chance to achieve more damage at the cost of energy consumption and exposure. It also gives better synergy with many other weapons and abilities that aims at specific hit-boxes such as the torso (Mesa's Peacekeeper) or the head (Tonkor Blasts). It also resolves problems with hit-box specific enemies such as certain bosses (ex: Corrupted Vor).
    • For example: If sonar is casted when aiming at a MOA in the fanny pack, every other individual enemy units in range will have a specified chance to have a spot land on their fanny pack. If there is a crewman in range, then the sonar spot will land on their head, in his back, in his torso, or in another random spot if it takes too much coding.
    • If balancing is needed, give it a multiplicative or additive reduction of the size and/or strength of the spot (for example by 15%/20%/25%/30%). This is to offset the strong abilities to synergize a lot of abilities and to stack multipliers exponentially.
  • Recalculation: Recasting of sonar will remove the first sonar spot and replace it with another sonar spot 30%/40%/45%/50% smaller, but with a +0.45/+0.55/+0.65/+0.75 exponentially larger multiplier in a different location. This will make stacking damage more consistent while still requiring a decent amount of skill from the player. The exponential scaling would have to be balanced according to base damage multiplier.
    • For example: recasting sonar with a 5x multiplier will replace it with a 2/3 sized spot and a multiplier of 5^1.75 or 16.72. If cast again it would be than the previous spot and have a multiplier of 5^2.5 or 55.9.
    • If desirable, make each re-cast reset the duration.
• Make Sonar work much like Silence aura.
  • Enemies that enter in the aura will apply a weak-spot and could either be applied once per cast permanently, or can be removed if it leaves the aura. Base range would have to be adjusted for balancing purposes. This would allow the player to use the full duration of the ability without worrying about the rate of killing.
  • Recasting will stack auras, hence making multiple spots. Each casted aura would have its own duration.
• Sonar spots could replace the hit-box multiplier instead with. Damage multiplier of the spots would have to be balanced based on the current meta of body-part multiplier (ex: a critical head-shot with Limbo's Rift Surge on a Grineer lancer could yield up to 12 times the amount of damage in comparison to a regular shot towards the torso). This ensures that unlucky weak-spots that lands on immune hit-boxes (ex: Bursas front shields) doesn't become useless. However, this might reduce the usability of Acoustic Hailing. 
• Allow the spots or the enemies affected by spots to be seen through walls by rotating pulses, much like how codex scanners work, or how an actual sonar would work. The frequency of the pulse would be affected by Power Duration. This is suggested by @Mc_Clane. This allows for better response to enemies around corners, and could make punch-through weapons more viable, especially in stealth.
• Allow Sonar Spots to multiply the damage output of damage based status procs (currently sonar spots doesn't seem to affect it). If desirable, give a status duration bonus for non-damage based status procs or multiplied effects (ex: puncture will debuff more damage, Corrosive/Magnetic will debuff more armor/Shield, radiation proc has more duration, etc).
  • If desirable, allow spots to bypassing status immunity.
  • If desirable, allow the spots to give a multiplied status chance bonus for example by 50%/75%/100%/125% when struck, scaling with Power Strength. This would attempt to give a bit more crowd-control. For weapons with high status chance, this would allow for each round to proc more than one status. Base Status chance increase should be altered if it should be stack-able or not.
• Weak-spots might need some more polish in spot placement and hit-confirmation. There are body parts such as the upper left leg of the infested charger that isn’t part of the hit-box and is being highlighted. Other cases are when a crewman is covered in weak-spots and certain shots weren’t registered for the damage multiplier.
• Increase the energy consumption to 75, to hopefully demotivate blind spamming.
• Power range can affects the size of the sonar spots. If desired, make the sonar spots increase by rank. This might be hard to implement due to spots potentially overlapping between two different body parts and can add complexity.
• This will probably be much overpowered, but if necessary, make sonar spots ignore shields, armor, elemental/physical resistances from Sentient units, Eximus' unit resistance, and Sortie elemental and physical resistance modifiers.

 

Silence: This ability is intended to augment her stealth ability as a team, allowing loud weapons to stay stealthy and save the team from unintentional alertness from the enemies. However, the short range of the ability makes it hard to deafen the enemy before they see you, usually because players get too close. Also, when there are situations where there is no stealth, it actually triggers the stealth melee multiplier when hitting them in the back. However, it is very hard to achieve that, even when rag-dolling them with the sonic boom. The ability seems very useless in such a situation other than a quick and short stun.

• Increase the range to 15/18/23/30 m. This makes modding for stealth easier since loud weapons alert enemies within around 45 meters.
• Allow Silence to apply the accuracy de-buff (instead of sonic boom). Silence might be a better form of applying the accuracy debuff as it moves with the player rather than having to cast it on each and every new enemy that come's by it
• When enemies are knocked down, knocked back, rag-dolled (ex: Sonic Boom or Mag's Pull) or hit by an Impact Proc, two effects can happen:
  • Allow Sonic Boom to apply an increased status vulnerability (instead of sonar), each affected enemy having status chance multiplied for example by 75%/100%/150%/200% and is affected by Power Strength. Status chance over 100% would allow each round to proc more than one status per round. (alternatively, sonic boom can have this mechanic instead).
    • This might be very hard to implement, but allow the player to select the type of proc (ex: player chooses to proc bleed exclusively if the damage spread allows it).
    • If desired, allow it to bypass status immunity. Otherwise, give this ability to Sonic Pulse (described below).
  • Enemies will have the melee stealth damage multiplier applied to those enemies. This will attempt to incentive synergy and melee play. It will also attempt to offset melee's lack of ability to aim at sonar spots effectively.
    • If the melee stealth multiplier is too much or too little of a buff, apply a melee damage multiplier for example of 1.5x/2.0x/2.5x/3.0x, and is affected by Power Strength. Again, this might be hard to implement since it might take coding to debuff enemies for specifically melee weapons, make the stealth multiplier affected by power strength mods, and to work out how the damage multiplier will affects melee DoT status effects.
• If more crowd-control is needed, apply the stun in a second radius of 10m. This is actually based off of the suggestion of @Gaelic-_-Flame. This stun radius might make Savage Silence work more effectively during combat scenarios.
  • Instead, give the stun to the Savage Silence augment.
• Reduce the energy consumption to 50.
• Make it as a second ability.
• Some people would like to see this ability disable special enemy abilities much like how it does in conclave. This was suggested by @HAYABU5A.

 

Sound Quake: This has been considered one of the most underwhelming ability, since the ability restricts her movement and the crowd control doesn’t apply very well since they recover very quickly after deactivating the ability. Damage is also somewhat lackluster.

• Make the damage apply as 5 tic per second.
• Give it the ability to shorten nullifier bubbles.
• Reduce the casting animation to about 0.25 Seconds.Increase range to 13/16/20/25 m. A lot of people mentioned that Banshee becomes very vulnerable for an ability that has mediocre range and little damage. The range buff could steer it more as a team support ability, and the damage buff alongside with the synergy for sonar can help for solo play.
• If balancing is needed, increase the energy consumption by 25%.
• Some people desired a new ability instead. Here are a couple of possible suggestions:
  • Ultrasound: Banshee will charged up ultrasound, each point of energy converted to 10/20/30/50 Finisher Damage when held. When it is released, the damage is released at a range of 8/11/15/20 meters. This ability ensures mobility while providing much needed damage
    • Damage conversion is affected by Power Strength.
    • Range is affected by Power Range.
    • Efficiency is NOT affected by Power Efficiency and Power Duration.
    • The amount of damage is not hit-box specific, and cannot be multiplied by Sonar.
    • The ability charge up is a one-handed action, keeping her mobile.
    •  Charging the ability will prevent banshee from gaining energy from energy pads, Trinity’s Energy Vampire, and Zenurik Energy Overflow. However, it will still gain energy from her passive.
  • Sonic Pulse: This idea is based off of @HAYABU5A. Banshee creates a powerful wave of sonic pressure that shuns electrical equipment and disable abilities from the enemies (somewhat like an EMP) at a range of 10/13/17/22 meters and costing 100 energy. This ability will ignore obstacles. Banshee is heavily dependent on her abilities, especially her sonic boom for crowd control. Much like how Loki has radial disarm to disable enemy offensive capabilities, this ability disable’s enemy defensive capabilities. This ability is supposed to enhance that supportive role, debuffing enemies in its own way, and giving way for other abilities to be more usable since a lot of enemies can nullify her abilities. It also gives
    • Can disable Shield Osprey abilities, Eximus Auras, Eximus Resistances, Eximus abilites, Ancient Auras and immunities against certain enemies (ex: Knockdown Immunity from Executioners, 
    • If desirable, allow it to disable Rocket guidance, Grenades, general elemental/physical resistances from Sentient adaptation and Sortie modifiers, status immunity, Comba & Scrambus nullifier auras, and/or nullifier bubbles. (If it’s too powerful, make it disable the ability to regrow it after it has been shorten).
    • If spamming is a problem, the ability could be an aura instead (much like how Silence work in conclave). This method should be balanced with Power Range and Power Duration.

 

Passive: Her passive currently is a nice boon for stealth gameplay, saving a healthy mod slot. The problem is that it overshadows the purpose of her third ability. It also doesn’t seem to be very effective at reducing banshee’s heat, even in team compositions.

• Recorder: Banshee gains energy when loud sounds are triggered in range, such as gunshots and explosions from enemies, since banshee is very dependent on her abilities. This will also incentivize risk-taking, since it requires enemies to shoot at her. This will also synergize well with her accuracy de-buff.
  • Each rifle gunshot will give a maximum of 1-2 energy.
  • The amount of energy gained could fade based on distance.
  • Sniper shots and explosions will give 5x the said amount.
    • Maximum energy per gunshot can be based on damage as well (ex: Shotgun shots will give more energy than rifle shots, unless each rifle shot deals more damage.)
  • The sound level would not be affected by Silence.
  • If desirable, allow gunfire to be picked up from Banshee and allies. It would not be affected by Hush or Suppress.
• Tempo: This idea is pretty absurd, but it involves having background music. The music will consist of beats, and properly timed abilities will provide ability bonuses depending on which beat it is casted, much like a rhythm game. The bonuses and effects for each ability casted on beat could be extra range, strength, duration, efficiency, stronger knockback for sonic boom, stun for silence, etc. It’s all up to interpretation.

 

If the abilities seem too powerful, you can try to balance it out further by reducing her health and shields to 75. This is probably to make up for her heavy ability to debuff now: body part debuff, melee debuff, finisher debuff, armor debuff, accuracy debuff, and ability debuff.

There are a couple things that can be switched around between the abilities: Silence could have the ability nullification, Sonic Pulse can have the armor reduction augment and the stun instead, etc.

I have a feeling there is going to be some suggestions that are going to be unpopular. Therefore, please tell me what you like and don’t like, and give some suggestions as to what should be implemented based on these suggestions. Thanks for getting this far.

 

Also, can someone help me format? I tried using word and it doesn’t seem to look as good as DE’s Patch Notes.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Peacemuser

[Peacemuser]

Sorry about the spelling of the title guys... I screwed up the grammar there.

[Oraeas]

I think the ulti just needs to be reworked period. I was toying with the idea of a sphere of influence to confuse enemies

[taiiat]

reducing Accuracy from Sonic Boom sounds good.

 

Sonar performs very well as it stands, there's not much to complain about in terms of functionality. hits pretty much everything, adds a huge Damage increase, Augment is very useful, Et Cetera.

yes, the Sonar Points have always been screwy, but i attribute a good chunk of that to this:

yes, Sonar isn't as 'cast Ability and everything gets free upgrades' as some other Abilities, but i fault the other Abilities for that, not Sonar.

 

Silence synergizing with Sonic Boom sounds great. the exact amount of Damage Bonus, idunno - but i like the connection.

i'd be alright with increasing Range to 25m and reducing Energy cost.

but would very much like the stun when Enemies enter Range to last longer.

 

more Range and a shorter Casting Animation of Sound Quake would be welcome for sure.

this Ability isn't really about it's Damage though. i'd make the initial Burst constant, and have it pulse atleast 2x a second, scaling Blast Status Chance from lowest at the edge of it's Range to guaranteed at point blank to Banshee.

and Enemies that are knocked down from Sonic Boom, ragdolled across the map when Sound Quake is used. :)

 

 

 

also, changing the order of Abilities is pointless. it doesn't matter what order they're in as long as some Abilities that are useful without Mods are ordered first. both Sonar and Sonic Boom do that.

[HAYABU5A]

you can try to balance it out further by reducing her health and shields to 75

the last thing banshee needs is any reduction to her durability, so cant agree with that

 

but there are some interesting QoL improvements to sb,sonar,silence here, soundquake on the other hand needs a complete rework

 

the suggested buffs arnt overpowered compared to the current broken meta overpowered warframes capabilities

but as said they might be too much trouble to code (they prob dont want to invest too much time on 'the least popular warframe' if it isnt going to make them money even if she is the most deserving of it)

[hukurokuju5]

changing health, shields, and armor by marginal degrees does ALMOST NOTHING for frames...

 

changes to ABILITY MECHANICS is key to impactful "balancing" of frames.  

 

number tweaking is only relevant if kit is solid

[KeGaRe]

her ability is already great it's just need a little bit buff to increase her flexibility against any given situation.. on your note I got a few correction to give.

 

-Sonic Boom: 90% accuracy reduction cap is ridiculous, 30%-50% is already great besides, the augment has done it's job well and making this skill so much more useful. Change the hitbox to a circle shape like her ult would help alot though.. I agree on the range increase, but max 10-15m is sufficient with a circle shape hitbox.

 

-Sonar: an already good skill that I seem to have no problem with. especially with Resonance augment. The increase in multiplier is near-to-no-use as Nova and banshee pretty much has different approach (Banshee affects crit, meanwhile Nova affects raw damage) and will make the skill rise beyond the OP category. Your augment idea is pretty much losing it's definition, the "aim & cast" pretty much redundant to Resonance, I know you meant it for VIP target as it only affects first target but hey why don't make it a run around? using sonic boom to proc armor reduction and start shooting is a thing.. you know. Also while it's good to have every single thing on the universe hitting a nice weak-spot, I might sum up all your problem in one solution. Make the skill hit all parts of the body, rescale the damage modifier. But all I can say this ability has no weak points whatsoever.

 

-Silence: one of my favorite honestly, especially with Savage Silence aug. The numbers doesn't matter, Range needs to be increased, I agree. The synergy with Sonic Boom is great and it maybe not so hard to "Code" as there is a lot of multipliers around. Savage Silence gives 300% finisher damage multiplier mind you. make a melee damage multiplier is another thing but I'd have to replace your sonic boom accuracy debuff to this skill.

make it a nice disabling skill that works great as a defensive skill too. I should say no to encourage low weapons or low frames at all, this skill works sophisticatedly and with delicate usage it should work with any kind of party composition you have.

 

-Sound Quake: increase in range and casting speed, no need to increase damage at all, reduce the tick between damage to 0,5 seconds (should I say, Stagger time). I'd say, add properties to deflect projectiles while the skill is active.

 

No need to decrease her stat. And I'd say make 1 of the augment skill to be innate and change 1 of the augment to her 4th skill. She's kinda tricky to build if you want the most out of but is really worth it.

[Inmemoratus]

Silence is terrible, even with Savage Silence. More damage on finishers is meaningless because they already 1 shot everything.

 

How about a whole new ability.

 

Cacaphony - Amplifies sounds in a large area. Weapons that cause sound are so amplified that enemies in the zone take damage.

 

That would mean the more enemies caught in the zone firing weapons, the more damage they all take.

[hukurokuju5]

^ silence is an aoe stun zone that can restun an indefinite number of times.

 

try it again without range mods

[KeGaRe]

Silence is terrible, even with Savage Silence. More damage on finishers is meaningless because they already 1 shot everything.

 

How about a whole new ability.

 

Cacaphony - Amplifies sounds in a large area. Weapons that cause sound are so amplified that enemies in the zone take damage.

 

That would mean the more enemies caught in the zone firing weapons, the more damage they all take.

 

Your new ability idea seems.. redundant to her sonar, it will then do a huge damage amplification that Banshee will lost one of her defensive skill that is Silence. I can't agree about it, cause it will narrow down playstyle and diversity all in one go.. I'm gonna say finisher damage is not meaningless at all, since the numbers are real and many frames or melee weapons benefit from it, even if you say heck it and go meta with your one-shot weapon, the augment is great if you really need it. Also silence really supports stealth playstyle, all we need is just some work with the re-stun duration and frequency.

 

^ silence is an aoe stun zone that can restun an indefinite number of times.

 

try it again without range mods

 

^ true. The re-stun is not meaningless at all. in fact it would be more useful if power str scales towards how long the enemy will stay in "stun" animation or how often it does. That would be more of a nice buff for me. 

[HAYABU5A]

someone had the great idea to give silence the ability to also "silence" enemies, as in cancel out NPC enemies abilities/special functions within its range or partial range, just like the acolyte

e.g. scorpions/ancients cant throw, heavy cant slam, eximus leech cant leech, ospreys cant deploy shield/saps/mines etc etc

 

like ECM jamming the enemy

[Noble_Cactus]

I actually like a lot of the changes in the OP. Silence-Boom syngery is nice. Sonar augment is interesting too, since it creates a whole new playstyle for Silence. Which is what I feel augments should do, rather than give them bandaid features.

 

However, I also agree with this guy:

 

I think the ulti just needs to be reworked period. I was toying with the idea of a sphere of influence to confuse enemies

 

Soundquake really needs to go. Being the team's stun battery is no fun at all, since you're rooted in place the entire time. I've seen a million different suggestions on how it could be reworked around here, most of them likely better than anything that I could come up with. But one idea I like in particular was to turn Soundquake into a mine that Banshee could lay on the ground. When an enemy passes over it, the mine triggers and procs a Soundquake for x amount of seconds.

 

Limits on the mines and quake duration would need to be worked out, of course.

[Inmemoratus]

^ silence is an aoe stun zone that can restun an indefinite number of times.

 

try it again without range mods

So make all the other abilities terrible so that Silence can restun a small number of enemies?

 

If you do that, you're just worse at CC than other frames designed for CC because now you cover a very small range. The only way Banshee can compete in that role is by modding for Soundquake.

 

Play some Nyx and Vauban. Then you will understand the standards that Banshee needs to meet to perform this role.

 

 

Your new ability idea seems.. redundant to her sonar, it will then do a huge damage amplification that Banshee will lost one of her defensive skill that is Silence. I can't agree about it, cause it will narrow down playstyle and diversity all in one go.. I'm gonna say finisher damage is not meaningless at all, since the numbers are real and many frames or melee weapons benefit from it, even if you say heck it and go meta with your one-shot weapon, the augment is great if you really need it. Also silence really supports stealth playstyle, all we need is just some work with the re-stun duration and frequency.

 

It's not redundant. It's a direct damage AoE skill. Every enemy within the zone would take damage whenever any sound is made within the zone, which would mostly be from gunfire. Meanwhile, Sonar is a debuff that increases damage rather than directly dealing damage itself.

 

But I was just throwing out an idea to replace Silence, which actually is terrible. I don't care what replaces it as long as it's actually useful.

 

How is it relevant for stealth when the main concern with stealth gameplay is visual? Bring a silent weapon on Loki. Banshee cannot compete. She would need an augment for Silence that adds self invisibility to it.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I think the ulti just needs to be reworked period. I was toying with the idea of a sphere of influence to confuse enemies

How bout instead of a sound quake.... She instead boasts a vibration effect that disrupts all shield based enemies, weakens armor based enemies, and causes infested enemies to be confused(a radiation proc) and does an amount of damage specific to enemy type per second for a duration, rather than an energy drain. Give it the ability to buff all of banshees other abilities both in damage and effect.

And silence should have infinite range rather than an aoe around her fir a set range. She should gain an active camouflage during this duration that doesnt leave her fully invisible but allows her to avoid enemies much more easily and reduces their line of sight as well as erasing their ability to hear.

Edited February 12, 2016 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[Peacemuser]

her ability is already great it's just need a little bit buff to increase her flexibility against any given situation.. on your note I got a few correction to give.

 

-Sonic Boom: 90% accuracy reduction cap is ridiculous, 30%-50% is already great besides, the augment has done it's job well and making this skill so much more useful. Change the hitbox to a circle shape like her ult would help alot though.. I agree on the range increase, but max 10-15m is sufficient with a circle shape hitbox.

 

-Sonar: an already good skill that I seem to have no problem with. especially with Resonance augment. The increase in multiplier is near-to-no-use as Nova and banshee pretty much has different approach (Banshee affects crit, meanwhile Nova affects raw damage) and will make the skill rise beyond the OP category. Your augment idea is pretty much losing it's definition, the "aim & cast" pretty much redundant to Resonance, I know you meant it for VIP target as it only affects first target but hey why don't make it a run around? using sonic boom to proc armor reduction and start shooting is a thing.. you know. Also while it's good to have every single thing on the universe hitting a nice weak-spot, I might sum up all your problem in one solution. Make the skill hit all parts of the body, rescale the damage modifier. But all I can say this ability has no weak points whatsoever.

 

-Silence: one of my favorite honestly, especially with Savage Silence aug. The numbers doesn't matter, Range needs to be increased, I agree. The synergy with Sonic Boom is great and it maybe not so hard to "Code" as there is a lot of multipliers around. Savage Silence gives 300% finisher damage multiplier mind you. make a melee damage multiplier is another thing but I'd have to replace your sonic boom accuracy debuff to this skill.

make it a nice disabling skill that works great as a defensive skill too. I should say no to encourage low weapons or low frames at all, this skill works sophisticatedly and with delicate usage it should work with any kind of party composition you have.

 

-Sound Quake: increase in range and casting speed, no need to increase damage at all, reduce the tick between damage to 0,5 seconds (should I say, Stagger time). I'd say, add properties to deflect projectiles while the skill is active.

 

No need to decrease her stat. And I'd say make 1 of the augment skill to be innate and change 1 of the augment to her 4th skill. She's kinda tricky to build if you want the most out of but is really worth it.

To a certain degree, I kinda overestimated the cap for the accuracy reduction... I was trying to take into account sniper units which supposedly have a weapon accuracy of 100, but it might be calculated differently for AI.

 

The "aim and cast" is so that you can choose which part of the body the sonar spot will land. The upsides are the ability to make better synergy with hit-box specific weapons such as explosives, warframe abilites, or crit-weapons. You can also make spot stacking easier and can get more damage out of your sonars.The downsides involves proper aiming (sometimes it's hard to hit the torso for me at least) along side with a smaller sonar spot and a smaller multiplier. I can agree with keeping the sonar multiplier unchanged though. 

 

The reason why I'm making Resonance Innate is that the ability seems to be a very strong upgrade for arguably a very powerful ability. This augment tries to make it more of a side-grade giving it a different play-style instead. Although, since the Resonance augment is going to be innate, an energy cost increase would be required to balance it out.

 

My idea for this frame is the ability for it to scale through debuffs, but requiring heavy positioning, aiming, and energy management skills.

 

Unless... you have a Trinity...

Edited February 12, 2016 by Peacemuser

[marshmellory]

never used banshee, but one thing i would like to see done is make the sonar weakspots count for argon scope

[IonCross]

Cacaphony - Amplifies sounds in a large area. Weapons that cause sound are so amplified that enemies in the zone take damage.

 

That would mean the more enemies caught in the zone firing weapons, the more damage they all take.

 

 

OMG this is brilliant! So that silence will still have full effect even if enemies are alerted! Love it 10/10

[Inmemoratus]

OMG this is brilliant! So that silence will still have full effect even if enemies are alerted! Love it 10/10

 

I am not familiar with this brand of sarcasm.

[(PSN)OmegAmorbis]

One of the big things I'd like to see is the ability to move during Sound Quake. The idea is that when you use it, your mobility would be severely restricted (no running or parkour) but you could still use weapons and other skills. This would make it actually viable when running solo, which is a huge problem with how it currently works.

[Peacemuser]

There's a couple things to note with the current banshee, mainly the ability silence.

 

With silence, the stealth multiplier is applied to hitting enemies in the back, even if they're alerted. However, trying to hit alerted enemies in the back is pretty hard to do, even with sonic boom. It usually takes invisibility from Naramon's shadow step or Howl from Rakasa.

 

Stealth multipliers multiply DoT damage by 8 when the stealth multiplier is applied after the proc, and 16 before the proc. However, Savage Silence doesn't seem to boost the finisher damage from the bleed proc in the simulacrum. I have yet to test it in-game though.

[hukurokuju5]

There's a couple things to note with the current banshee, mainly the ability silence.

 

With silence, the stealth multiplier is applied to hitting enemies in the back, even if they're alerted. However, trying to hit alerted enemies in the back is pretty hard to do, even with sonic boom. It usually takes invisibility from Naramon's shadow step or Howl from Rakasa.

 

Stealth multipliers multiply DoT damage by 8 when the stealth multiplier is applied after the proc, and 16 before the proc. However, Savage Silence doesn't seem to boost the finisher damage from the bleed proc in the simulacrum. I have yet to test it in-game though.

 

 you have to be using the augment mod for the stealth multipliers on alerted enemies.  this will also multiply the bleed procs you procced prior to casting/enemies enter zone.

[(PSN)JedWrecked]

I think that banshee should keep the usage of her powers but a passive for faster reload and bullet travel speed so she can scale better into endgame and faster runs

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I use a Max Range min duration Silence to get my silence stun.

Mainly because Silence is not recastable.

Personally I would like to see Silence & Sonar combined into 1 ability.

-Could fulfill Silence recastability and allow Sonar more base Range.

Since Sonar is more Fun friendly and Silence more Gun oriented : even the Augments could be combined.

Because I have minimum duration her current Augments don't work for me....because I can't cast Silence when needed with long duration.

[(PSN) plexab]

Banshee is a great frame, but it needs an improvment, just 1.

All abilites are good now except Silence. Even Sound Quake is a good one as it is, you just have to know how and when to use it right.

But Silence is broken even with 300% finisher damage augment mod. If you play at really high levels you just get killed as soon as stun effect wears off, which lasts only few seconds. So you just have not enough time to kill all nearby enemies even with 3x multiplier before you fall. Even Ash and Wukong has pretty same stun effect but both goes invisible and stay alive!

 And as for me there's 1 simple solution for this skill. I'm not asking for a stealth even Banshee is claimed a stealth frame - just add to the Silence the Nova's slowdown effect and that's it. There's no OP at all as it may seem - you still can be killed by an enemies inside the range and outside, because Banshee is so thin frame, even nyx doesn't feel so weak with the same stats.

Maybe it will need a radius reduction for a better balance or let's say a 30-45% slowdown cap, but this is what a really would love to see and Banshee will become my 2nd most favorite frame.

[MillbrookWest]

Banshee is good as is imho. 

Take her on the level 100 sorties and never had any complaints, nor troubles.

The only thing i would tweak would be to her Silence ability, and probably her health.

9 times out of 10, it's not raw damage that drops me, its the insistently annoying procs - Slash procs specifically. Banshee should have a resistance so the duration of procs is reduced, or she should be given the highest base health of all frames - Keeping her low armour values. This maintains her high risk, high reward gameplay and introduces a little bit of survivability.

Silence should de-buff enemy accuracy - Fixed values at each value with 25% accuracy reduction at max rank, adjustable with power strength mods.