Mesa & Saryn - Rework - Energy Drain & Miasma

[Gurpgork]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

one less ability to cast in the middle of a fight especially when spores toxin spread is based off a toxin proc is the reason why toxic lash should be a toggle. all her skills are duration based so one toggle is not going to hurt anything especially since energy drain is based of duration as well its a win win. i dont see how zenurik would be ruind and there is practically no use to energy siphon unless others in the squad are using it as well and at that point the toggles drain becomes irrelevant unless DE decides that it wont allow it.

It's a one-handed cast with virtually no cast time, it's recastable while it's active, it requires no further action before or after casting it for it to be useful (as opposed to Vex Armor), it has better energy efficiency than literally every toggle in the game, and it doesn't disable energy regeneration from Zenurik or Energy siphon (which toggled powers do). The way I see it, it's better as a duration ability. With Primed Continuity alone, it lasts 46.5 seconds. If you ever have to cast it in the middle of a fight (which with its ridiculous duration and recastability is rather unlikely if you pay attention to its duration), it's not going to get you killed, since it's a near-instant one-handed cast. 

[(PSN) FunyFlyBoy]

On 2/15/2016 at 1:24 PM, Skaleek said:

 

Apparently the greater warframe population feels the same way. Thats why no one plays them anymore, they're so good that no one can justify playing them. *cough*

 

People only used Mesa because of Void camping, and Saryn was rarely used before rework as well because she couldn't scale at all. Nonsense threads like this do not help with Saryn now, but I can actually handle Lv80 and higher enemies with reworked Saryn with minimal need to abuse guns compared to before.

[(PSN) Crimson_Judgment]

Well Mesa is linked to hardware performance so hows the Xbox treating you? PS4 has the same issue frame rate drops and there goes mesa
shame top tier PC's got the ability nerfed because they could shoot faster the better their processing power

(Quick note i do agree that it needed a nerf but it still needs tweaking)

you lost me on Miasma "no way to increase DPS" well theres viral and toxic procs so you're very wrong there. (you could also try increasing power strength and duration)

i really like saryn now shes actually fun to use instead of spam 4 and look at the forums

[(PSN)maelstromm15]

7 hours ago, (XB1) SixPathsOfHate said:

-snip-

All I can say is, if you aren't able to out-kill an ash or ember, perhaps you should rethink your build or loadout. Ember can hardly kill anything that's a decent level. Ash can kill plenty high, but it's slow. Painfully so. With Saryn, anything up to 60 or 70 will die nearly instantly if I'm using spores to their fullest potential. And with my ignis, that means everything within 96 meters (40 meters on the spores, 52 meters in the ignis). If they don't die instantly to my spores, they will in a few seconds. By the time my spores take time to kill, ember takes longer, and Ash is still stuck in his animations. 

[Perserve]

On 2/23/2016 at 0:29 PM, (XB1) IceLordBasilisk said:

What reasons would those be? I went 120 minutes in a T4 Survival with minimal issues (bar pesky nullifiers cuz I suck at killing them) and pnce weapon dmg started to get lower my powers kept them debuffed endlessly as well as killing large groups with the endless dots.

mainly she doesn't provide enough team support as she brings nothing but damage to a team. That's pretty bad considering any other damage oriented warframe will have damage comparable to Saryn's damage and crowd control to boot. Also since molt doesn't scale defensively you won't get much outta it to save a fallen teammate past 50 minutes. Her kit is nice yes but it lacks some key things to make her a solid choice over say nova, mirage, ash, and excalibur.

[(XBOX)Cephalon 7]

Well I put on a maxed transient, max blind rage, max intensify was only able to kill 2 enemies in sortie. This nerf on saryn is aweful. De needs to just either rework the nerf with a better one or just delete it from the game. Saryn is horrible now.

[EinheriarJudith]

21 minutes ago, (XB1)Xn N7 said:

Well I put on a maxed transient, max blind rage, max intensify was only able to kill 2 enemies in sortie. This nerf on saryn is aweful. De needs to just either rework the nerf with a better one or just delete it from the game. Saryn is horrible now.

could it be that your mod setup for how she plays now is wrong? because i have no issues in sortie with her like at all.

Edited February 29, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[hanross]

On 2/15/2016 at 0:30 AM, (XB1)Xn N7 said:

These 2 warframes have died out among the community of warframe on the xbox one!

Any Planet, Node, Void Or Relay Neither Of These 2 Warframes Are Ever Seen Or Used.

 

1.) MESA! Yes Mesa! How Op she was....With her ability to kill in a 360* rotation...

 

Ruined - Now you must point and shot - half the time not even shooting because the point and shoot doesnt register

so you end up holding down the RT to shoot and it doesnt shoot u just stand there as if you didnt even hit the RT. Shame!

No one plays on Mesa anymore on the xbox one. Thanks to the nerfs on these warframes. Its now just one that is leveld up for its mastery and either deleted or left in inventory to never be used again!.....Shameful

 

2.) Saryn - Yep Pretty much! - Her Ability to Nuke everything in the map! Oh what a good day it was!

 

Ruined - Now it only does DOT damage with no possible way to increase the dmg over time of the ability.

You can increase its total damage but not its overtime. If anything else this warframe needs a new mod for

all warframes that increase inital dot dmg. Just some food for thought.

 

So far these are the 2 oldest used to be popular warframes on xbox one....Now they are the most unfavored amoung

us players on the east and west servers of warframe. You can run any node, any planet, any relay, and u will not see

1 mesa or 1 saryn. Because everyone would rather run ember prime or nova prime since them to havent been ruined yet.

 

I am not posting this to complain. I am posting this to give yall feedback from us older more advanced veterans of warframe on the xbox one. Please put mesa back to the way she was. Or Bring out a prime version of her and put her character back

to its former glory. And omg please for the love of warframe. Do not release saryn prime with the same nerf yall put on the regular one. Would like to play on it instead of just saying great another wf to get mastery rank from and never use again.

 

Thanks DE For Listening - Mr 20 - Tenno Of The Lotus

 

 

-Edit-

Also Need to change the energy drain on mesa. Even with the 175% cap on efficency the drain is still around 5ps....makes using efficency mods pretty much usless. Id like to see this part of her if overall be a amount of energy required for the ability rather then a drain.

 

Saryn needs a aument mod that increases dot dmg stacked ontop of what the powers strength of the warframe already has. Because no matter how much PS you got. Miasma is crap now cause u cant increase its dot. I think this ability needs to be set to scale with enemy levels since a dmg increase isnt possible

actually thses two don't need rework just need old ones before they were when they were not spoiled

[SpyGhostOtissss]

Mesa was My DREAM warframe and when i got her i cried because i played this game alone and had to go through everything by my self cause i didnt know english until than

(well i didnt actually crie but im just sayin) and after a week she got nerfed and i'm now dissapointed every single time when i play as mesa :C

[EinheriarJudith]

4 hours ago, SpyGhostOtissss said:

Mesa was My DREAM warframe and when i got her i cried because i played this game alone and had to go through everything by my self cause i didnt know english until than

(well i didnt actually crie but im just sayin) and after a week she got nerfed and i'm now dissapointed every single time when i play as mesa

mesa can effectively Solo NM. were you wanting that aimbot that is still there? since when does actually playing a warframe make a warframe bad? now you have to point the aimbot in peacemaker in a direction and you are disappointed? im confused and will ask you please explain why you are disappointed.

Edited March 1, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[(XBOX)Cephalon 7]

I dont have so much a issue with mesa's reword....its the dial that gets smaller as u fire that annoys me........they should have just took the aimbot off but kept it where she can shoot like she did but in the general direction shes firing.....

[(PSN)thebatmantyler]

I thing Miasma needs to look like Novas M prime

if spore is in the wave of miasma it will take the spores same with toxin 

[(PSN)Abelyon144]

Well ,after using Mesa for about 3days straight ,including LOR's,( I even lost a 300p sortie bet). I made her to be a bullet tank ,especially with her shield augment it's really fun mixed with her 2nd and 3rd ability and add it all together with peacemaker and she's an un touchable beast enter your zen- school to control energy consumption well<<<< but there's one thing I can't get over and that's her pistol scaling ,Excalibur ,Valkyr and even Atlas scale off melee. After taking away her auto aim THE LEAST  Dev could do is give her scaling. That's raise her to so many levels that, (maybe for the crybabies) a littleenergy efficiency   buff  and she's better than how she was and those who miss her could uses her without crying about "how she was" 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Why was my original post deletet instead of the doublepost i edited to such lmao

Anyways, i got to play saryn a little more recently and have to deny evrything OP has said. Lets summ up her reality:

Spores: add a vital dot with a max ammount of spores to the enemy. Popping them results in eather a poison or viral status procc. Viral by itself halfes health as you constantly popp them so thats by itself equal to doubled damage but thers more to them as they scale from and spread poison dots. The explosion on popping scales off the totall damage of the present poison dots and spreads a percentuall ammount of the damage as stronger poison dot with the spores. The spores are limmited, poison is not.

Lash: sets a poison dot per hit and scales off basedamage. There isn't much in the wiki concerning poison but i notices something on slash-> it scales off multiplicative sources, mentioned are crit and headshots, also scaling off basedamage and adding a dot....melee weapons got the body count combo recently...draw the picture. Now, it also popps a spore evry time you hit a enemy, beein able to hit multiple enemys at once, spreading spores... red crit amplified poison dots that spread around like a wildfire and are not even consumed in the process...no way to increase the damage?...

Molt is decent for health management and both molt and her ult scale off 1x viral and poison each. Decent but that's about it. Usefull only as early game bombing tool.... Let them scale similar or even stronger then the spores and she would be perfect.

 

The energy drain is high for the ult but her main damage source is pretty darn cheap. And you get LOTS of damage outa lash and the spores, scaling well into the endgame as you only then get the opportunity to even grasp the full extend of her possible radial damage.

Edited March 3, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Takaani]

I have to say that Saryn is pretty okay. Her 4th needs to proc corrosive, her 2 needs better health scaling. She needs more armor and/or health. That's it.

Mesa's 1 needs work since it's rarely used, and her 4th...that energy drain is absolutely atrocious. Fully modded for efficiency, it's still at around 3 per second. Make it around the same rate of energy consumption as Chroma's Effigy, and that'll be fine. Not overpowered, still more draining than Ember's WoF, Hysteria, or even Equinox's mend and maim.

[EinheriarJudith]

what if ballistic battery auto charged like a passive, and when fully charged you could press 1 and it will quick charge/fire any charge/non charge gun you are currently holding (the mod energy channel does something like this no?)? they could make it so you can cast shooting gallery seperately on squad mates or when no target it casts on yourself (this will solve the whole weird bouncing between teams thing and really make it a team buff. shatter shield is love shatter shield is life. all peacemaker needs imo is to scale of secondary mods and not have you turret mode (using secondary mods will make it scale into a higher lvl until DE decides to fix scaling).

Edited March 3, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[SpyGhostOtissss]

On 2/29/2016 at 2:20 PM, EinheriarJudith said:

mesa can effectively Solo NM. were you wanting that aimbot that is still there? since when does actually playing a warframe make a warframe bad? now you have to point the aimbot in peacemaker in a direction and you are disappointed? im confused and will ask you please explain why you are disappointed.

to think about it your right mesa is good enough and i should stop complaining because mesa was a major problem because of draco exp farming thing

[Hellmaker2004]

On 2/15/2016 at 8:00 PM, (XB1)Xn N7 said:

 

2.) Saryn - Yep Pretty much! - Her Ability to Nuke everything in the map! Oh what a good day it was!

 

 

Saryn can still nuke a wide area of the map, with more damage and a bigger radius for less energy than she did before her rework. The only difference is that instead of doing it by spamming number four skill, she does it in a combination with her number one and stacked Toxin.

 

Saryn Forum topic

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 8:29 AM, (PS4) Crimson_Judgment said:

Well Mesa is linked to hardware performance so hows the Xbox treating you? PS4 has the same issue frame rate drops and there goes mesa
shame top tier PC's got the ability nerfed because they could shoot faster the better their processing power

(Quick note i do agree that it needed a nerf but it still needs tweaking)

you lost me on Miasma "no way to increase DPS" well theres viral and toxic procs so you're very wrong there. (you could also try increasing power strength and duration)

i really like saryn now shes actually fun to use instead of spam 4 and look at the forums

It also destroys spores in a radial fashion.

 

Lets say you start off a melee hit with full body count influence using lash..how much damage does this do on lets say dual ichors? 80-100k red crit? 

 

Destroying a spore equals 100% melee damage per poison procc if build correctly and spreads 25%(str->40% poison procc) of this final number (40->80% destroying a spore)

 

Soo, lets say your enemy has 3 spores in his torso region, easily acchieved with a few melee hits.. 30 enemys are around you, every enemy has multiple instances of 80% of 3-600% melee damage of poison on them (240-480% of the 80-100k) and you fire a miasama..,what kinda damage would activating miasama do in this scenario?

 

What if you boost your range with setting molt what is able to effectivly add 50%? (480% of 80k x 45 + what it does by itself...)

Miasama has its right to exist as radial ability that popps poison enchanted spores, saryns key mechanic. Yall people need to realise this. These small utility bonis aka viral are only the top of the iceberg, effectively doubling this damage.

Edited March 18, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Detestable-Geohound]

I'm a new player and can't speak for Saryn gameplay. Mesa however...

 

Everything but her Ultimate is fine. Peacemaker needs some serious help. Fortunately it's actually a very simple fix. All you have to do is increase the damage Peacemaker does.

Whether that be increasing the base damage, including secondary mods, scaling; it almost doesn't matter. Once Peacemaker is capable of doing reasonable amounts of damage you can justify the current energy drain rate while using it (and leave it as it currently is).This is because once you start taking down targets faster (because the damage will be higher), you'll be 'in' Peacemaker mode less and use less energy per activation/use. The reason the energy drain is such a problem is because it takes far longer to kill a target/group of targets than it really should. Change the damage output and you kill two birds with one stone.

In no way should it be buffed to the point that it takes mere seconds to take down the toughest enemy in the game, but it shouldn't be effectively useless on enemies ~ level 35+. Currently, I can 1-2 hit kill almost any mob between level 1-40 (in fact, entire lines of mobs with punch through) with my Hek; why would I take far more time and energy using Peacemaker? I don't, unless it's a massive gang of mobs that are really far away and I have 300 Energy to spare (and generally in mid-to high lvl enemies, that only softens them up unless they are trash mobs).