There can't be any "mandatory" mods for weapons

[KnightCole]

Would be cool if guns got "stance" mods like melee weapons.  But not stances like the melee, where they give you combos, more like little buffs that go in the same spot as stances.
 

IE: Sharpshooter: +5/10/15/20/25% weapon accuracy rating

Hollow Point: +5/7/9/11/15% base damage increase

Solid Grip: -5/10/15/20/25% weapon recoil/shake

High Power: +10/15/20/25/30% weapon projectile velocity

Depleted Uranium Tip: +5/7/9/11/15 additional base Crit and status chance.  IE: 5% becomes 20% crit chance at max rank, add a 100% crit mod becomes 40%

 

And just various little mods like that to allow us to give our weapons different boosts that we currently cant give a gun without sacrificing the more useful mods.

 

[(PSN)blackbeltdude7]

On the topic of formas and polarities, introducing the "Arms Mastery System" could also be the introduction of "Super Forma" or "Legendary Forma." They could instantly change the polarity of a mod slot without needing to level up. I think if DE did something drastic like moving dps mods from the main modding system to an innate system, then they would probably have to give players a fair way to adjust. Giving each player a legendary forma for each forma they used on any weapons is a fair way of doing it.

[Necrius]

But I wanna one-shot cannon fodder enemies! >_<

Though I don't wanna them one-shot me.

[Bloodskll]

anyone else think Damage 3.0 , might just maybe, make snipers a viable weapon choice.

[Lost_Cartographer]

There are only 2 types of mandatory mods currently:  +% damage (serration, hornet strike, pressure point, point blank) and multi shot because they:

• Have no draw backs and... 
• Work in every single situation.

Even elemental mods have preferences - gas is kind of worthless against Grineer.  Still more damage, but there are better elements with better status effects.

The problem with utility mods is that compared to damage/elemental mods, they're worthless.  They don't really do anything to a weapon.  A Magnus doesn't really get more ammo from slip magazine.  Just two rounds.  Pitiful.  Quick draw reduces the reload from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.  An improvement, but the rifle/shotgun counter parts are only 30%.  The Soma goes from 3 seconds to 2.3 seconds.  It doesn't come across as very desirable next to MOAR DAMURGE!  Maximum ammo capacity mods only delay the inevitable - you're either making a profit on ammo usage or you're not.  Mods like Ammo Drum would only be worthwhile if they also came with even a slight increase in ammo per box.  And I think we all know about the maximum +15% status chance mods...

The only utility mods people ever take are the crit chance and crit damage mods, and ONLY ever for weapons that actually see big increases with their use.  That's right, these are utility, they just come camoflauged as more damage.

Compare the generally negligible influences utility mods have on weapons against the +60% and +90% extra elemental damage from elemental mods, and it's no wonder people think the damage mods are "mandatory."  They're the only mods worth a mod slot and mod points to begin with because they actually have a noticeable impact on the weapon's performance.  If slip magazine increased ammo capacity by 100% and quickdraw influenced reload speed by 70%, I'd probably be having a blast with the Magnus, for one example.  I'd essentially have the next version of the Lato in my hands.

 

And no, nerfing overall damage growth isn't going to hurt the game.  Endless modes were designed to beat us eventually.  Just "when" is the question.

[(PSN)blackbeltdude7]

12 hours ago, Littleman88 said:

Even elemental mods have preferences - gas is kind of worthless against Grineer.  Still more damage, but there are better elements with better status effects.

The problem with utility mods is that compared to damage/elemental mods, they're worthless.  They don't really do anything to a weapon.  A Magnus doesn't really get more ammo from slip magazine.  Just two rounds.  Pitiful.  Quick draw reduces the reload from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.  An improvement, but the rifle/shotgun counter parts are only 30%.  The Soma goes from 3 seconds to 2.3 seconds.  It doesn't come across as very desirable next to MOAR DAMURGE!  Maximum ammo capacity mods only delay the inevitable - you're either making a profit on ammo usage or you're not.  Mods like Ammo Drum would only be worthwhile if they also came with even a slight increase in ammo per box.  And I think we all know about the maximum +15% status chance mods...

The only utility mods people ever take are the crit chance and crit damage mods, and ONLY ever for weapons that actually see big increases with their use.  That's right, these are utility, they just come camoflauged as more damage.

Compare the generally negligible influences utility mods have on weapons against the +60% and +90% extra elemental damage from elemental mods, and it's no wonder people think the damage mods are "mandatory."  They're the only mods worth a mod slot and mod points to begin with because they actually have a noticeable impact on the weapon's performance.  If slip magazine increased ammo capacity by 100% and quickdraw influenced reload speed by 70%, I'd probably be having a blast with the Magnus, for one example.  I'd essentially have the next version of the Lato in my hands.

Yeah, I agree.

With elemental damage mods though, I think they would need to be set up so that they convert a percentage of damage to that element (like how the PVP IPS mods work). If they stayed the same, they would still be mandatory because they increase overall damage (aside from the bonuses they give against enemy types).

I think you also bring up a great point that the utility/playstyle mods just don't do enough. They should do much higher percentages, but I think they'll probably need to be balanced similar to PVP's take on those kinds of mods too. In PVP, for example (for those who don't play it), the load outs don't let you equip a reload speed increase mod while equipping a magazine increase mod. I think we'd probably need something like that in place for Damage 3.0, because if we don't, then everyone would just throw on reload and magazine mods.

I can see the argument for crit mods being more of a utility nature, but some weapons become really ineffective without them (bows and the Soma come to mind). If crit mods were left in the current system (and not moved into an innate system), it's possible that they could become kind of burdens to the weapons that need them (taking up at least 2 slots). If given the chance, I would want to increase the crit chance and crit multiplier in every weapon if I could do so without sacrificing mod slots, because it's just an increase of a chance of more damage. In my opinion, on most weapons, including crit mods (as innate mods) wouldn't really make a big of enough difference to be power creep anyhow.

[Lost_Cartographer]

16 hours ago, (PS4)blackbeltdude7 said:

 

I think you also bring up a great point that the utility/playstyle mods just don't do enough. They should do much higher percentages, but I think they'll probably need to be balanced similar to PVP's take on those kinds of mods too. In PVP, for example (for those who don't play it), the load outs don't let you equip a reload speed increase mod while equipping a magazine increase mod. I think we'd probably need something like that in place for Damage 3.0, because if we don't, then everyone would just throw on reload and magazine mods.

 

Eh... no.  This is akin to people only being allowed two different elements for the sake of "balance," meaning only one actual element at a time - either a basic or an advanced.  I don't think reducing mod options in PvE is a good move.  Ultimately, the rework is meant to improve the diversity and viability of many different mods and builds so that it's not just throw on the big two mods and then throw on elemental mods in the right order.  Telling people "magazine size OR reload speed" goes against the intention of the rework and, frankly, just encourages sticking with elemental mods.

[(PSN)DBR87]

I totally agree with the sentiment that utility mods just don't do enough to warrant use over damage. Rifle Aptitude is pathetic and there are mods that do its job better along with providing an element. Serration can be integrated into a weapons level, but for something like Split Chamber, I really believe the best solution is create mods that directly compete with it. Do you want 90% chance to another bullet or do you want 60% Multi shot and 60% crit damage? Or do you want 140% multishot with -50% reload speed? Heavy Caliber isn't as bad because a handful of weapons, like snipers or bows, rely on accuracy and head shots so not everyone will slot that mod on every gun. But for something like Split Chamber...why wouldn't you use it? There is no mod that competes with it. 

I honestly see Serration and Split Chamber and all their variations for other weapons as the only true mandatory mods. You don't have to Radiation against Grineer because some times it's better to mod corrosive, sometimes it's better to go pure viral, or viral plus fire. But when is there ever a time you won't use Serration and Split chamber?

Also would love to see this "no more one shotting' thing and how it would effect Sniper Rifles....weapons that are meant to one shot...

[CriticalFumble]

I think its within reason to assume that Damage 3.0 will include a significant rework in how enemy scaling works at least.  I'd expect changes to armor and damage type modifiers as well, but possibly not.  In any case, it should really help people entering the game, as not having fundamental things like serration is an incredible thorn in the side until the RNG has pity on you. 

The problem I see with your innate mod idea is that its just a band-aid for a grafted out system.  Rather than add in another version of damage 2.0's power creep and leave the enemy power alone, why not change the other side of the equation and tune them down so they make sense with the new system?