I do not like the direction this game is taking.

[Eredoc]

3 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I've had bursas spawn in on infinite missions in regular planets, and they spawn in plenty when unalarmed in sortie missions. There's also no notification of a bursa presence forewarning players of a threat when they next trip the alarms.

If they're supposed to be corpus juggers, they're currently completely broken.

 

Infinite missions? You mean like Survival, Defence and Excavation where the map is treated as being alerted for the sake of enemies rushing for the Players/Objective?

Sortie missions you could pin that on it trying to Amp difficulty as by the time you are doing Sortie missions, you know how to deal with them [Hopefully].

[NezuHimeSama]

Excavation and defense don't have the map in an alerted state. Survival does, but it's cosmetic. Also, bursas start spawning in infinitely after a point, similar to nullis on tower defense maps.

That's not exactly a corpus jugger. That's more like an obnoxious "F*** you" to people complaining that X or Y is too easy.

[Eredoc]

2 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Excavation and defense don't have the map in an alerted state. Survival does, but it's cosmetic. Also, bursas start spawning in infinitely after a point, similar to nullis on tower defense maps.

That's not exactly a corpus jugger. That's more like an obnoxious "F*** you" to people complaining that X or Y is too easy.

Why am I even bothering at this point? both you and the OP have done this several times where I've attempted to explain something but just blatantly pass it off or just refuse to see logic, as such I'm just going to leave this thread, it's not worth it to repeat myself at this point.

[EvilChaosKnight]

I like how people think that if you can defeat certain enemy, its design isn't broken. I especially LOVE when people who went through starchart (like I did 2 years ago lol) never meeting a Bursa now push that new players should endure all that blatant BS.

What LOGIC is there for a unit with boss stats to spawn in groups on normal nodes? "Oh but it makes game interesting and challenging!" some keep parroting "You just need to adapt!". Now, if game by itself featured numerous such units, making you think from the start how not to die easily, this could make some sort of sense. Kinda. Would still be rather questionable decision but pretty passable. Think of an old game "Syphon Filter" which made it clear from the start what lies ahead.

Instead we have a game which starts off with fairly simple combat with fairly straightforward mechanics. And the trend goes for a bit. Sure enough you'd meet bosses whom Lotus warns you about "Watch out, this one is a handful". A fair warning about a fight which might be pretty different from your normal experience. But then you wander into wave 15 on Venus or 10 on Jupiter and get your face melted off without any sort of warning by an enemy you've never seen before. Is that fun? Interesting? Even remotely fair? If you answered yes to any of the 3, I've got some bad news.

I am not even going to mention the term "difficulty curve" because THIS advanced game development characteristics are way over the heads of "git gud" mentality people.

Now about that "False Profit" event. During the False Profit I could drop kick and stun the Bursa. This provided a certain reliable counterplay to its spam allowing basically any frame to handle them with enough precision. Now it's gone, Bursas are EVEN FASTER and suddenly... smaller. Also you only had 1 at the time during the event. Just saying.

[Himodor]

I too am really happy to be told that its perfectly fair that I should be facing multiple instances of something with the stats of a high level Boss by people who never had to face them when they were new players.

And seriously, I'm supposed to be using 3 fully maxed out mods now? Most new players will be filling their weapons out with standard mods as people naturally regard 5 empty slots out of 8 as a waste, And that's what they will be facing Bursas for the first and 10th time with. Remember I RAN OUT OF AMMO TRYING TO KILL 2 OF THEM and that was with 2 people helping me. And forget powers as oddly enough they were not spitting out energy balls for us recharge with. Oh sorry, I'm supposed to have that mod that gives you energy as well? The thing I only learned about yesterday and likely don't have a hope of getting near to the place that drops them, wherever that is?

And by the way the Wiki says nothing about the effects of an alarm. I spent a day looking for it. Not that it matters as oddly a defense mission is not under an alarm...

[ClinkzEastwood]

54 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

What LOGIC is there for a unit with boss stats to spawn in groups on normal nodes?

Remove Stalker, G3 and Zanuka or riot.

Also bosses are a joke in this game.

Edited February 27, 2016 by ClinkzEastwood

[NezuHimeSama]

14 minutes ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Remove Stalker, G3 and Zanuka or riot.

Also bosses are a joke in this game.

Stalker requires a mark from killing bosses, and tbh, will rek any newbie players, as well as the fact he stops spawning after you kill him, and doesn't really show up that often anyway.

G3 and Zanuka require a mark from completing higher level invasion missions. Same thing as stalker otherwise, except they show up even less often.

Bursas will show up in a normal corpus mission with no marks, continuously. They're also much harder to deal with than zanuka, G3, or either Stalker.

Edited February 27, 2016 by NezuHimeSama

[Eredoc]

15 minutes ago, Himodor said:

The thing I only learned about yesterday and likely don't have a hope of getting near to the place that drops them, wherever that is?

And by the way the Wiki says nothing about the effects of an alarm. I spent a day looking for it. Not that it matters as oddly a defense mission is not under an alarm...

I had to check this topic again and I'm glad I did, I know you didn't look on the enemy page on the wiki, or at the very least didn't read it, Last sentence of the first paragraph states:

Quote

they have a high chance of spawning on Pluto, Neptune, Europa,Jupiter, Mars, and Venus, whenever alarms are triggered in a Corpus mission. 

Also, let's make an exemplary situation here based on the "Unalerted Defense", If there was no alerted state on Defense missions then the enemies would NEVER attack the Objective, Why? because that's what the unalerted AI is programmed to do, walk around and not attack, Just because the game does not state "Alarms have been triggered" or something to that degree does not mean that the map itself is on an unalerted state, I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or what but I didn't think I would need to explain that...

By no means, am I saying that Bursa's are perfect, I know they need to be tweaked but my points were not to defend them but rather explain how the bursas work and how they benefit the game for new players by offering  a change in the style of combat that prepares them for future bosses.

[Himodor]

Firstly I said there was nothing in the wiki about the effects of an alarm

Second since you are using the wiki to try and make me look uneducated, how about this quote which I urge you to read it very carefully as I is dumb newb who knows nothing and obviously never looked at the wiki at all.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Denial_Bursa

Quote

Bursa will not spawn on normal missions below level 15 – Venus, Mars and Jupiter. This stipulation is ignored if it is a Nightmare mission.

And as we now know that is a load of S#&$e.

So which is it. And please note that I posted this less than a minute after you posted which proves I am just not reading the wiki carefully and if I just did I would see that Bursas are just fine. Yes, that was sarcasm.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Himodor

[Eredoc]

19 minutes ago, Himodor said:

Firstly I said there was nothing in the wiki about the effects of an alarm

Second since you are using the wiki to try and make me look uneducated, how about this quote which I urge you to read it very carefully as I is dumb newb who knows nothing and obviously never looked at the wiki at all.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Denial_Bursa

And as we now know that is a load of S#&$e.

So which is it.

 

Am I The developer of the game? No, I'm not, so how am I supposed to know what's going on, Is it a bug, was it an unlisted change?

This topic is heading to somewhat grey area, however I think the best way to prove that this is a bug and not the effect Staying in Defense/Excavation/Survival would be to get video proof of a mission that has level constraints under level 15 and is not endless, that way we can safely call this a bug and get DEs attention to it.

Also I apologize for not reading your sentence carefully enough to notice that you were talking about Defense missions, however it was not meant to make you look uneducated, it was so that I could prove a point that was made prior to that I admit I quoted you because of the misreading however, I'm not one to attack a persons being, I wouldn't call you "A dumb newb" or anything of the sort. If you're still adamant that defense is unalarmed then PM me, as this is not the course for the topic to discuss further, with that said, I will be leaving and I won't be back.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Eredoc
Typo

[NezuHimeSama]

44 minutes ago, Eredoc said:

I had to check this topic again and I'm glad I did, I know you didn't look on the enemy page on the wiki, or at the very least didn't read it, Last sentence of the first paragraph states:

Also, let's make an exemplary situation here based on the "Unalerted Defense", If there was no alerted state on Defense missions then the enemies would NEVER attack the Objective, Why? because that's what the unalerted AI is programmed to do, walk around and not attack, Just because the game does not state "Alarms have been triggered" or something to that degree does not mean that the map itself is on an unalerted state, I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or what but I didn't think I would need to explain that...

By no means, am I saying that Bursa's are perfect, I know they need to be tweaked but my points were not to defend them but rather explain how the bursas work and how they benefit the game for new players by offering  a change in the style of combat that prepares them for future bosses.

The map doesn't need to be alerted for enemies to be alerted. In intercept, defense, survival, and excavation, enemies spawn alerted to the defense target, capture points, excavators, or player locations respectively. The map it's self is not in an alerted state.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Since the opinion of a new player is so valuable I thought I'd give you another of them. And yes, I'm aware he bought some plat, that's his choice. I guess not everyone thinks things are too tough, maybe you're just a bit soft.

 

Edited February 27, 2016 by Zilchy

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

I love how the counter-response to this type of feedback is usually "stop playing"

The direction the game is going is confusing. On one hand, they introduce new concepts and training for newer players. Which seems like that should be the focus.

On the other hand, they add a ton of content that is balanced around hardcore veteran players. resource creep, stalker/sentient damage resistance, time walls, quest walls, power resistance, focus mechanics, affinity gain, power nullification, one-hit enemies (scorch, ballista, corpus tech), increased grind, more RNG, lower drop rates, etc.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, (PS4)SupeBoss said:

The direction the game is going is confusing. On one hand, they introduce new concepts and training for newer players. Which seems like that should be the focus.

On the other hand, they add a ton of content that is balanced around hardcore veteran players. resource creep, stalker/sentient damage resistance, time walls, quest walls, power resistance, focus mechanics, affinity gain, power nullification, one-hit enemies (scorch, ballista, corpus tech), increased grind, more RNG, lower drop rates, etc.

Agreed. However, this is not necessarily DE's fault. Look at how Warframe is marketed. Look at their slogan: "Ninjas play free". (Before you bash me with "new frames are different from traditional ninjas anyway" or "name a ninja who would use an assault rifle", hear me out) Is a ninja going to set of every single alarm in sight? No, they move stealthily, be it air vents, windows or underground secret tunnels, perfect ways to counter the conventional "security camera spots all" security measures. DE is a bit inconsiderate when considering the map layouts, but players should be avoiding the cameras and take the advantage of stealth on earlier levels, which is exactly what I did before I got this far, and I still have a very long way to go. As for the Stalker, he's the bogeyman for the Tenno. Players SHOULD be scared of him in the first place. How else would he qualify as a "good" assassin? When players have some degree of experience, they can deal with the bursas big time, learn to use ciphers to speed up the process, and have another layer of experience in sorties. And for the "one-hit" enemies and power nullification from nullifiers, manics and isolation bursas, it's another obstacle that players need to adapt to, which should be easy if the player has better gear, which means inexperienced players would need to adapt stealth play and have a lot of immersion before getting to the sucky grindfest, which is, what I imagine, most players would be willing to do back in the day. 

[EvilChaosKnight]

10 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Remove Stalker, G3 and Zanuka or riot.

Also bosses are a joke in this game.

Not only Stalker, G3 and Zanuka spawn once, you get a whole damn spectacle as they are about to appear. You know, radio transmissions, lights flickering, sometimes extra GFX around yourself. The game once again makes it clear: something big is going to happen. Oh and they require very specific conditions, will erase mark no matter if you win or lose against them (preventing further spawns until you trigger the mark again) and in Stalker's case would just let you carry on as usual.

Hell, even Juggie has lights, lots of noise, a specific spawn condition and Lotus' transmission updating you on the situation. And when Juggie dies, he dies, you won't see him in the mission anymore.

Manic is another example. He's a lot less troublesome but even he announces his spawn by that "Muhahahaha" sound effect.

Bursas? Well, even IF you get a transmission, it's just Lotus calmly saying that Bursa is here because of the alarm. Like it's not a huge deal or anything. While arguably Bursas are harder to deal with than old Stalker and sure enough are harder than Zanuka Hunter.

Edited February 27, 2016 by EvilChaosKnight

[Flirk2]

Again, sorry if I miss something. And I just realized that if I quote you you'll get notifications... I understand it could get annoying. So if it is, just tell me and I'll quote you the old fashioned way with ctrl+c and ctrl+v.

12 hours ago, Zilchy said:

No not for that, for telling someone else they shouldn't advocate for more challenge. You can't have your own opinion and yet disrespect someone else's. You can of course disagree with their opinion, which is another thing entirely. So in that vein, yes you are being hypocritical.

So If I want to state my view on things, I don't get to criticize your opinion. Because that would be hypocritical of me.

But you get to criticize my point of view as you please. Because it's your opinion.

I bow to your logic, sir.

12 hours ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

I'm not saying that older planets should get a difficulty boost because most of the player base has finished it. I took an unmodded excalibur and unmodded tigris and took it down fairly quickly. (Did get killed by a null during a fight though...)

I'll have to test if you're correct. And which bursa? All bursas?

No poll, I just talked to people in-game.

You miss the point of experience completely. You want challenge because there is nothing else for you to do in the game. A new player has tons of things to do in the game and not necessary wants to spend 2 hours and all his ammo on 1 enemy that is not even a boss.

All the bursa share their stats. They just have differnt ways to mess with tenno. But they all have the same stats and impenetrable frontal shields.

So you found some new players agree with you. That's fine. What about the others? Especially those who are not in game anymore?

12 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Yes I do read, do you? You said and I quote, that you "used Ordis life support". Ordis life support is dropped by the Mantis, not the Liset. So perhaps you should've been more careful in your wording and said "Air" support instead. That way I would not have come to the wrong conclusion.

I'm sorry for not checking the terminology in this case. But you still show that you have not read the original post where I stated clearly that Ordis refused to hack because there were no security protocols in place at the time. And when there finally were I hacked them manually and it did not work.

12 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

Now, saying that they should be level locked - like their Grineer equivalent - that's valid. Their tendency to chain knockdowns, especially in groups - that's problematic. That repeated spawning bug, known and being looked at as far as I'm aware. Valid points, but lost in a sea of salt.

I'd venture that a new player would be capable of handling a level 10-16 Manic were they presented with one, even though they have just as many quirks that make them better than some bosses. (For the record, Ambulas is old news and long overdue for a rework anyway.) They just don't have to - and without tanky mods fitted, or allies to pick them back up, that tackle and beatdown move the Manic has would be just as threatening to a solo player.

First - that's the very thing I was pointing out. But you project what other people say in their threads on what I say.

Second... Please, don't compare manic with a bursa. Manic never spawns in groups unless it's a LOR raid (which is a 4 men team minimum and a rather high level mission) or Tyl Regor (and then there are only 2 of them at a time if you solo), can be easily negated by melee block, and does not have anything for it but a little more then usual mobs durability and a dashing claw attack.

While bursa spawns in groups, spawns infinitely if the alarms are set off (which is a stupid thing by itself), spawns infinitely even with the alarms are turned off when bugged, has directional immunity to hits, ranged weapons, knockdown shock waves with a very short cool down and so on.

12 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

IMO, bursas should be a corpus juggernaut, but instead of "kill lots of corpus" it's "trip an alarm", and you get two random bursas.

They don't take as long to kill as juggernaut, but I find them far more threatening. Jugger is pretty predictable and if you keep an eye on it and shoot it's weak points, it doesn't usually have a chance to do anything but charge at you. It's more like fighting a bull. Bursas, on the other hand, move around unpredictably, have damage immunity for most of the front, and use frequent projectiles when at range. You can trick them out by jumping their close range attacks, but that heavily restricts your movement and is only effective against a single bursa. Definitely more challenging than juggernaut.

Yes to all but if they had juggernaut mechanics they would not appear in defense and survival missions. You don't have juggernauts on ODD even for the 20-th wave or on Hieracon, do you?

12 hours ago, Eredoc said:

That pretty much is how Bursas are, Minus the two, instead it's one and it spawns at intervals while the level is "Alarmed" unless someone can provide evidence to show a bursa spawned whilst unalarmed.

Forgive me for not recording my games.

And no, they are nothing like juggernauts. Because you never have 2 juggernauts for example. And because you don't have juggernauts on 20 wave ODD or 12th excavator on Hieracon, But you have bursa on 10 wave Io and on the 5th excavator on Triton.

11 hours ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Now about that "False Profit" event. During the False Profit I could drop kick and stun the Bursa. This provided a certain reliable counterplay to its spam allowing basically any frame to handle them with enough precision. Now it's gone, Bursas are EVEN FASTER and suddenly... smaller. Also you only had 1 at the time during the event. Just saying.

I was not around for 'False Profit". The first time I saw bursa was Proxy rebelion. And I went there on Oberon. Got wrecked by all the knockdown. Thought about it. And next day went there on the same Oberon but with a Handspring installed and the same catalyst installed and polarized hek but specked for magnetic this time. And it was a much nicer experience, I tell you. I was so grateful for that Handspring that dropped just a day or two before that alert... :-)

And I do seem to remember bursa being bigger then. And slower.

10 hours ago, Himodor said:

Oh sorry, I'm supposed to have that mod that gives you energy as well? The thing I only learned about yesterday and likely don't have a hope of getting near to the place that drops them, wherever that is?

Some people get their zenurik's 4 per second energy regeneration going, 175% efficiency, primed flow, 100 per tick syndicate-exclusive large energy restores and then you have complains about power spam and energy economy being broken...

10 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Remove Stalker, G3 and Zanuka or riot.

Also bosses are a joke in this game.

Let's see....

Stalker:

100 flesh

200 proto shield

225 alloy armor

Appears once in a blue moon, once per mission, if you kill a boss, At most will cost you 1 revive. Mark removed if you or your team kill him.

G3:

1700 cloned flesh

200 alloy armor

3 units once in a blue moon If you completed 5 invasions on corpus side. Mark removed if you or your team kill him

Zanuka:

600 robotic

1000 proto shield

25 alloy armor

Appears once in a blue moon, once per mission, If you completed 5 invasions on grineer side. Mark removed if you or your team kill it

Compare those to

denial bursa:

2500 robotic

2400 proto shield

350 ferrite armor

Appears on wave 15 defense on Venus and wave 10 defense on Jupiter. Or on spy missions with alarms set off, exterminations, deceptions, and so on.

Appears in any quantities, does not go away if you die. Revive and it'll still be there.

What will you advocate next, I wonder, the whole Stalker faction spawning at once on every mission with 100% chance if you have a Stalker mark and with 50% chance if you don't?

Because I know some people that would just love it. They still don't have despair because RNG and can deal with pretty much anything...

7 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Since the opinion of a new player is so valuable I thought I'd give you another of them. And yes, I'm aware he bought some plat, that's his choice. I guess not everyone thinks things are too tough, maybe you're just a bit soft.

So the game should be balanced around you and those who find bursa on Jupiter and Venus acceptable.

You made your point.

I rest my case

Edited February 27, 2016 by Flirk2

[Flirk2]

A little update on bursa situation.

I went to level Equinox and a mara detron on Io again. With one group I stayed till wave 20. There were no bursa as far as I could tell. Or the mag destroyed them but still.

So I saw the extermination alert for nitain. And went there with the same loadout

Equinox level 22 with maxed vitality, redirection, primed continuity, streamline and a r2 damaged flow.

Ignis with radiation/viral upgraded as far as I could take it maxed heavy caliber included.

Mara detron level 15 with maxed hornet strike

level 30 but no catalyst mios with radiation damage on it and primed reach rank 8

When the alarms were raised I did not shut them down until 2 isolator bursa shown up just to see what happens. Then the alarms were shut off. No additional bursa came.

Now let's see how it goes, I thought, and proceeded to try and take them out with detron.

Nothing. No noticeable damage. Shot them in the back before you think I'm moronic enough to not know where to shoot bursa after facing them for some time.

After 2 revives I started to use ignis. Managed to kill one of them.

Did not manage to kill the other one and ran out of revives.

Quit the game and don't know when I'll be able to play it again. It was fun. Until bursa happened and sorties started to give only cores.

You can call me what you like, but you won't be able to convince me that a level 32 enemy should be this much of a tank. And spawn like one every minute if the alarms went off on extermination. You did not have to shut the alarms on exterminations before at all. Just lifting the lock down was always enough.

I was never this miserable playing this game before.

And as I don't play games to feel miserable, I'll just stop for a while. Either the situation will sort itself out, or I'll just move on to something else. Not like anyone but me looses anything with this decision.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Flirk2

[CephalonUnknown]

41 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

A little update on bursa situation.

I went to level Equinox and a mara detron on Io again. With one group I stayed till wave 20. There were no bursa as far as I could tell. Or the mag destroyed them but still.

So I saw the extermination alert for nitain. And went there with the same loadout

Equinox level 22 with maxed vitality, redirection, primed continuity, streamline and a r2 damaged flow.

Ignis with radiation/viral upgraded as far as I could take it maxed heavy caliber included.

Mara detron level 15 with maxed hornet strike

level 30 but no catalyst mios with radiation damage on it and primed reach rank 8

When the alarms were raised I did not shut them down until 2 isolator bursa shown up just to see what happens. Then the alarms were shut off. No additional bursa came.

Now let's see how it goes, I thought, and proceeded to try and take them out with detron.

Nothing. No noticeable damage. Shot them in the back before you think I'm moronic enough to not know where to shoot bursa after facing them for some time.

After 2 revives I started to use ignis. Managed to kill one of them.

Did not manage to kill the other one and ran out of revives.

Quit the game and don't know when I'll be able to play it again. It was fun. Until bursa happened and sorties started to give only cores.

You can call me what you like, but you won't be able to convince me that a level 32 enemy should be this much of a tank. And spawn like one every minute if the alarms went off on extermination. You did not have to shut the alarms on exterminations before at all. Just lifting the lock down was always enough.

I was never this miserable playing this game before.

And as I don't play games to feel miserable, I'll just stop for a while. Either the situation will sort itself out, or I'll just move on to something else. Not like anyone but me looses anything with this decision.

So I read your post Flirk (and probarly the majority of the comments I think).

I did not know to what I would've had to reply anymore, so I just took your last comment you posted here  after you told us that you were leaving.

Now, I don't know if you'll be reading this anymore at this point and forgive me if this may go off topic, I'm apologizing in advance for that. 

Now, I know Bursas aren't the nicest enemies, in fact, due to them having being an event-only thing for a long time, a lot of people who had issues with these enemies just disregarded this "issue". Them becoming part of the main corpus faction and thus appearing in the sorties as well may have made the corpus, as they are now, quite a bit harder.

Now I've seen a lot of people here suggest you take a break from playing the game. Whether that'd be the right solution in the end, I don't know, then again, this a game where people tend to take a break from once in a while due to being burned-out. Pretty sure everyone here can agree on that.

Honestly, I don't even know why I'm replying right now, I just felt like I had to say something (call it weird if you want, but I felt the need to).

While I do agree Bursas are on the more bulkier side of enemies, keep in mind, the other corpus enemies are relatively squishy and disregarding nullifiers, etc, they were probarly the second easiest faction out there. Even though bursas can be dealt with in solo play, in the end warframe is still about co-op and I for one think that high level Bursas are enemies that should be taken on in a group in the worst scenario.

Only getting cores from sorties? yeah, can't really vouch for that one. Some people mention those missions are more for the higher-end players, while I do agree that you definitely need your mods for the majority of the sorties, there are exceptions now and then. Ever since season 4 came into place, well, with the whole (non) -repeatable loot table thing, it's kind of a double-edged sword one could say but in the end but I'm pretty sure the majority of players would rather have cores than for example, a lens or a Nezha part in the end. It's pretty much a method that slightly counters RNGesus.

On the matter of infinite spawns in missions and bursas who keep on spawning with the alarms bugging out, I've had it happen quite often myself and it most likely is a bug, seeing as Lotus actually mentions the alert causing a bursa to spawn, I'm pretty sure this wouldn't have been intended and if the bug appears more frequently they'll probarly resolve it one day in the future. 

Also, slightly regarding to the mara detron you were using that you just said, the detron isn't really known for being a great weapon.

I've seen a few people (or at least one of them) suggest you use a different weapon to kill bursas, which is completely fine, sure, weapons like the tigris or the hek may be weapons that people consider "overused" but hey, it gets the job done, and no offense to the majority of the weapons DE put in their game, but some of them aren't really the most viable weapons in existence.

I'm not going to get into the matter of things becoming tougher for newer players as I find that subject to be way too broad.

Also, I may be mistaken but if memory serves me right, I've seen some people here come to the conclusion that Flirk had no friends to play with, this isn't the case, Flirk just enjoys solo play a bit more and joins up with people from our clan and me quite often, while it is not the most viable decision for a co-op game, it is a gameplay choice nonetheless.

Now, to end my post because I really don't know what I'm talking about right now, seriously , I think I'm running on autopilot atm.

Flirk, I know our clan has isn't as active as it should be and I know your choice was made based on the game and not because of us obviously but I just want to put it out here that we're your friends, I mean, I don't play warframe for the grind anymore, nowadays I log in to warframe,try to figure out what I should do and it already makes me happy by just being able to talk with friends. While this game does have its flaws, it has one of the nicest communities I've ever seen and that's what keeps me going and what helps me look past things that one would consider "annoying".

Anyway, Flirk, I know not everyone in the clan saw your last message but slowly they'll get aware of the fact that you have left for the time being. Those of us who already noticed this will hope you give this game another chance one of these days and we await your return Flirk, we'll miss you.

[(PSN)Berkthigar]

On 2/25/2016 at 4:31 PM, PUR3K1LL3R said:

I only have one suggestion to you: Take a break for so and so days/weeks/months and come back and you'll be able to appreciate the game more. Grind is something that this game can't run without. 

The devs did say at one point that they'll reduce the grind. I got my Saryn Prime in 3 hours (And only 2 attempts on t3 survival Rotation C), so I dunno if I was lucky.

Must be nice. Eight 40 minute t2 exterminate missions without one drop for the new blade. I'm sorry but 40 x 8 = 320 minutes of nothing doing the same thing and making no headway is obnoxious and frustrating. RNG implementation is where this and other games are flawed. You get a guy like this who not only gets the gear right away but stands to make platinum off of others at a premium. 

So all the loot and platinum are in the hands of a few lucky players. There is literally no reward for perseverance. Running that 20th t3 exterminate(that apparently drops half of the new prime items WTF!) Has exactly the same chance of appearing as the first run. Simple solution is to increase the drop chance of unrewarded items. If an item has a 1% chance to appear for a player in a mission every run should increase the chance by say 1%. I am not suggesting these are real numbers. This is just for illustration purposes. Back to the point! That poor tenno who runs a mission 20 times now has 21% drop chance. Not Garaunteed but certainly much better than the first run. I know people will say but what if they run it 100 times should it be guaranteed... HELL YES! If you run a hundred keys and don't get a drop not only should you get the item garaunteed but the Lotus should give you a back rub and make you dinner. As to the point if you are running in a group the chances could be averaged. Those item drop increases should also reset on drop. Certainly would make the endless grind feel a bit less arbitrary. 

[Flirk2]

16 minutes ago, Unknownguy54321 said:

 

Thank you for your support. In my haste to get this done I may have sounded a little on the drastic side. I was not intending to never log in again. In fact I checked the foundry before I quit the game and there was forma coming up. So I do intend to claim that later and start cooking the next one. You can't have too much of those after all.

I do enjoy playing with clan-mates. And I know that any mission is a breeze if you have some people you trust to cover your back.

Even failing the irradiated mobile defense to friendly fire on the terminal (you know who I am talking about now) is orders of magnitude less annoying then failing by myself. :-)

I check this thread frequently as I feel rather responsible for starting it in the first place.

But if the direction will stay the same I don't think I'll be able to enjoy the game.

Corrupted bursa is the next logical step. And that will make the void as frustrating as corpus missions are now for me. You know me, I do not like a challenge. I like being able to stomp the opposition with impunity.

Then we will see nullifire drones from nightmare LOR on grineer maps. Because there are a lot of people complaining about power spam.

And then infested nullifire and mutalist bursa will appear. Or juggernauts start to imitate the bursa in spawning one after another.

 

As for my choice of a mara detron being not optimal... I know. The point was to see if it is possible. Or how difficult it was. If I wanted that nitain badly, I would go all sortie MD on them as an overextended frost with a quanta and lex, orthos on the back, wyrm with a sweeper specked for magnetic. And the only unprimed thing in that setup would be the quanta.... :-)

But the thing is. I saw in that encounter what I did not see before when I faced level 22 bursa on Jupiter with Chroma or even on that bugged sortie exterminate.

I saw the simple fact that bursa is the boss. You have to treat it like a boss. It's not a strong unit you have to keep an eye on. You have to prepare. You have to take some heavy weapons, specifically built warframe, and keep tactics in mind. No generic "shoot them in the head until dead" approach. And I do not like this. It's one thing to farm a boss, quite the other to get a boss fight on every mission.

 

So I will check this thread. And I will log in. And maybe even try to get that saryn chassis and weapons while there are no corrupted bursa in the void.... :-)

But I will avoid corpus like a plague if not in need to help someone, and think hard on putting the account up for adoption when the game will be reduced to "every mission is a raid" mentality. Maybe someone else will be able to have fun using all the things I collected even at that point. :-)

[Dailenth]

On 2/25/2016 at 11:31 PM, PUR3K1LL3R said:

I only have one suggestion to you: Take a break for so and so days/weeks/months and come back and you'll be able to appreciate the game more. Grind is something that this game can't run without. 

The devs did say at one point that they'll reduce the grind. I got my Saryn Prime in 3 hours (And only 2 attempts on t3 survival Rotation C), so I dunno if I was lucky.

I clearly disagree, yes I'm going to point my finger at other games again but Digital Extremses isn't an indie developer. They have cash, and they created titles like Bioshock and Bioshock 2. Expensive AAA Titles.

There are similar F2P with AAA Budget models that run more smoothly, and you are not forced endure a psychological warfare of patience if you're going to spend money to ease the grind.
Unless you mean the playability of the game, then again if you see these "QQ Threads" more and more often is because people want this game to be better because it has potential like no other Free To Play game had.

Edited February 27, 2016 by HaxBox

[Sidiron]

I know that my tuppence isn't going to sway many here, I will just add it in the vain hope that DE may see some sense.

I love warframe and have for a good long while now, my partner plays it also and has enjoyed it for different reasons to me.

When he ran into bursas during corpus star-chart missions after the event, which he disliked for the bursa's already mentioned, he was noticably annoyed and is now spending very little time in the game. I didn't think that they were that much of an issue, much like many in this forum. However, I have started to change my mind about this for one quite simple reason.

Bursa's could be fun, they are hard in a challenging way and I quite like the fact that you can gain an advantage if you kill them and then hack them, but what tends to happen when you get one, is the old adage about buses, you get 6 of the damn things.

For example, you're doing the usual run for credits, mods or completion etc... and you have a bursa spawn, this slows you down and gives you a harder, more resiliant target to focus on, like the juggernaut, but as you kill this one another spawns and makes a bee-line for you, you may have used a bit too much ammo or a bit too much energy on the last one so the next one takes that little bit longer, then another spawns just before you kill this one and this carries on and on, ad infinitum.

This was my "F--- this!" moment, I've had missions before that I have messed up or a particularly ill-timed juggernaut that's annoyed me and took me down to a slither of health shy of mission failed, but the thing that makes even that enjoyable is the knowledge that if you just play it well you can get out of that situation and triumph, yet with the bursa's bus-brigade there is no chance of success it actually grinds you to a halt, and this is in a game that has skillfully avoided any real-grind.

I'm still going to play this game as there is so much more for me to do in it, but I'll likely start avoiding corpus maps, which is a great shame as the portal-esque music and the aesthetic of them is such a beautiful thing.

But that's my whige for anyone to read if they want, it isn't an objective thing it is purely subjective.

I don't think it is indicative of a shift in the game's focus I think it is likely DE just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks; which is quite nice to see in a game that isn't the same formulaic drivel we see all over Steam and the respective console market places.

It's just the first thing that has really annoyed me and driven me to post here in the forum.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

On 27/02/2016 at 3:46 AM, NezuHimeSama said:

I've had bursas spawn in on infinite missions in regular planets, and they spawn in plenty when unalarmed in sortie missions. There's also no notification of a bursa presence forewarning players of a threat when they next trip the alarms.

If they're supposed to be corpus juggers, they're currently completely broken.

All sortie exterminates, sabotages are buggy alert state. It also happens in normal missions, especially if there's fire hazard. Alarm is actually active from the start, but can't be hacked until enemies close doors, then you can hack twice. This obnoxious bug been around for ages. Now people on pc finally noticed that missions with alarm but no way to hack from the start is an obnoxious bug?

Why this is not fixed? Or broken dismemberment on grineer commander. 

[NezuHimeSama]

35 minutes ago, (PS4)Lord_Gremlin said:

All sortie exterminates, sabotages are buggy alert state. It also happens in normal missions, especially if there's fire hazard. Alarm is actually active from the start, but can't be hacked until enemies close doors, then you can hack twice. This obnoxious bug been around for ages. Now people on pc finally noticed that missions with alarm but no way to hack from the start is an obnoxious bug?

Why this is not fixed? Or broken dismemberment on grineer commander. 

srsly. Bursas spawn faster than they die.

[Flirk2]

I think it's the final update from me in this thread. I'll only reply from now on.

I went for the sorties today just to see what will happen.

Mobile defense on an overextended frost went as usual. Freeze them all and wait out the timer.

And then came the next mission. Sabotage with assault rifle only.

So I take the hushed quanta, loki and go there knowing perfectly well nothing good will come out of it.

As expected it turned to extermination.

As expected the alarms have triggered a bursa while there were no alarms to hack. I made screenshots this time.

And finally the lock down and the hack goes through.

But there are more then twice the number of enemies already, they are higher level, and there are 2 or 3 bursa per room.

I tried killing one of them. With a quanta. I stood there, placed decoys to turn it around a bit and fired a constant stream of viral/electricity on it. And did not manage to even half it's health.

But people seem to be OK with bursa.

For me the game is no longer fun. It's now a forma building simulator, infested invasions for mutagen masses and fieldrons if I need them and Simaris daily task if it doesn't involve corpus. I'm not even in the mood to go into the void anymore. And it has nothing to do with the drops and such.

It used to be the case that if you want an easy time in Warframe you can have it. Now it's no longer the case. I guess there are more people that want the challenge then people like me that have enough things in life to overcome and not want to face challenge in the game.

P.S. I know about the hushed tonkor and the fact that it's classified as an assault rifle. Even if I had it (and I got rid of it as soon as I leveled it, because I don't like grenade launchers) I do not think that it's fine to have only 1 weapon suited for a mission.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Flirk2
managed to insert the screenshots properly this time