Is there Counter-Play to Shock Eximus?

[(PSN)horridhal]

Just now, J1ffyLub3 said:

I hate this logic. the game is significantly different than it was when the mechanic existed previously. And just because they removed it once, doesn't mean that was the correct thing to do at the time, let alone currently

No, the game wasn't "slightly different."  It was the same game with the exact same mechanics and moderately different maps.  That's it.  I've played it since it launched on PS4 and, aside from the massive mechanic changes like Damage 2.0, this game has remained the same as it was when I started.  No enemy should be able to completely drain a frame of Energy, shields, and mess up the hud simply because they are standing in a certain range.  No other enemy has ever been able to do so, nor should they.

At best they should be given an Aura, like the Caustic, that covers a large area every so often.  They shouldn't be walking Frame shutdown machines.

[Keiga150]

The first time these shock eximi came out it was no problem you'd just kill em like any other enemy and wait a few seconds before picking up energy again. I don't know when they broke but I guess it was long enough to where some Teeno seem so appalled at its fix now. Honestly this is the Corpus/Corrupted Nullifier argument again how there's no counterplay to it, its so cheap, how am i suppose to kill it when x unit are around it or some variation on spawns. 

These enemies exist for the purpose of, imo, how masterful you are at being a Teeno. Being able to use swordplay, gunplay and your abilities when the situation calls for it is a must not just rely on one way for everything. 

[YourCuteSister]

Tenno, 10o, 10o... You are warrior of gun and blad... Oh, you get one-shoted because your Quick Thinking can't work without energy. Shame on you for not liking DE decisions.

[(PSN)horridhal]

1 minute ago, Keiga150 said:

The first time these shock eximi came out it was no problem you'd just kill em like any other enemy and wait a few seconds before picking up energy again. I don't know when they broke but I guess it was long enough to where some Teeno seem so appalled at its fix now. 

It wasn't broken with an update.  It was purposefully removed by DE because it is a cheap mechanic.

[Specific.Zod]

8 minutes ago, J1ffyLub3 said:

I hate this logic. the game is significantly different than it was when the mechanic existed previously. And just because they removed it once, doesn't mean that was the correct thing to do at the time, let alone currently

How is this diffirent?

- trinity still there.

- Pizza still there.

- Bonus Zenurik passive.

What diffirent?

All your defenses is just the same as when people cry about Bursa after razorback TA. There is no specific defense. No specific counter-play. No specific etc..

Run slow? wut? then what the point of damage reduction when enemy miss you?

Situation awareness? Is it better? no. no minimap indicate that specific unit, new lighting effect are "over lighting".

Melee style reward? No. with bursa and nullifier you have reward if you kill them with melee, there is none with this guy, cause melee w/o CC or self-buff is just sucide. And to be able to cast CC or self-buff, you need energy.

"And just because they  removed  implemented it once, doesn't mean that was the correct thing to do at the time, let alone currently."

[Flirk2]

I went to level some stuff to Io, Jupiter. As there are so many complains about trinity in the forums, I took a fully modded EV trinity there. Redirection, Vitality and all. With one random team I managed to stay till wave 20. Saw 3 nullifier shock eximus units total, 2 at wave 20. Every time I went to kill nullifier with melee, with my 2.2k shield and full energy pool. And when I entered the null-bubble, I got magnetic proc, and all the no energy, no shield, no visibility fun. And my carrier proceeded to remove all the energy orbs in the vicinity so I could not get enough to EV when the magnetic proc ended.

I survived that. Is was Jupiter after all, and I had my lex with me. But will I ever go for sorties? No. Will I stay till 40 min in void survival (and I never stayed more then 40)? Not without shadow step.

I was against bursa. Now I see the same people that defended those things defend magnetic procs on shock eximus. And I'm really starting to think I'm playing the wrong game. Forget the toxic ancient level 100 that will kill any frame without active from of invincibility in one exhale. This thing has the same effect no matter what level it is.

But there are always people who will defend them.

P.S. I sometimes wish I could play for corpus. Have a pet bursa, a 5 hit minimum nullifier shield and sapping ospreys on my side.

P. P. S. And another funny thing. You get a magnetic proc on an enemy - his shield is halved. He gets it on you - you have no shield, no power, no vision. Because warframes are awesome like that. A pinnacle of technology indeed.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Flirk2
Added P.P.S

[Urlan]

It wasn't a bug, it was a design feature to remove the magnetic and switch them to electric damage boost around when Nullifiers officially were released since the shock aura did in fact say they resisted and dealt additional electrical damage. Interestingly, the one-glove Furax Grineer power fist soldiers who were listed in the recent patch notes as doing magnetic do electricity with their slams while the Shock troops are back to doing magnetic auras and damage boosts to nearby enemies.

Don't particularly like the change back honestly, but then if I feel I need to feel I shouldn't be able to use powers, I don't play a game where my defining characteristic is being able to use void powers. If I need a feeling of trying to cripple myself, I wear Dragon Keys when not doing Derelict Vault hunts. If someone has problems with players using abilities, this might be the wrong game.

If the shock eximus are supposed to be doing magnetic auras and damage, could we at least have them changed to Magnetic Eximus instead of Shock Eximus, if only for the sake of clarity and logical application of powers. While players trying to compensate or compliment their play style by using Corrupted mods and builds that can't easily support their own power needs, it doesn't mean that this is the only or desired method of play.

[Stratego89]

Literally there is not. This unit is a HORRIBLE one. I love nullifiers- they're good. The prevent power spam, introduce a VIP enemy for corpus, and work with their other units. I approve of Bursas (despite the fact that they need a speed/spam nerf of sorts). They're a heavy unit that does a decent job of causing havoc for you until you make it go away- no other corpus unit does that, you can deal with other stuff before the other units without constant harassment by them. Sure bombards could use a little nerf to their spam/rocket tracking. Every unit has it's goods and bads. Except this one. There is no counter play to a shock eximus. It just comes in and ruins your day, and that's it. That is bad design and it needs to change. That all being said- DE listens. I'm sure with the amount of hate these things are getting they'll be changed somehow soon enough.

[Hellmaker2004]

Shock Eximus needed a buff, they were a joke before the returned the magnetic proc, however  it is way to strong in its current form. Rendering any frame within 5 meter unable to use ability's, remove all energy, scrambled vision and with a duration of four seconds may be to strong.

 

They should have toned down the magnetic proc these guys have and simply made it into a scrambled vision and power stopping effect.

[sekushiiandee]

On 3/6/2016 at 4:29 PM, Storchenbein said:

How can people defend such an immensely cheap enemy?

Let's compare a shock eximus to an arson eximus...

Arson: Fire aura that applies a fire resistance buff to nearby enemies. Releases a firewave of fixed damage around the 300's.

Shock: Electricity aura that applies an electricity resistance buff to nearby allies. Sports a 5 meter field in which it will apply a magnetic proc to you, depleting almost all of your shields, draining all energy, disrupting your vision and preventing you to gain any energy for a few seconds.

How is this fair? This is a surefire way to get melee players killed, they can disrupt you around corners before you even have a chance to normally engage them. We've been through this cheap enemy already and I thought they intentionally removed this horrible effect, turns out it was another one of these glorious "fixes" that barely anyone needed/wanted.

 

Look, I'm all for them having an effect again because during the time when they were "bugged" they did pretty much nothing. But this effect shouldn't be a death sentence that's this easy to apply for a majority of frames. Maybe give them energy draining bullets that drain 5-10 energy per hit? At least this way they wouldn't destroy your life in a split second because they ran around a corner.

^ totally agree with OP and you

in all honesty.....what the shock eximus have been doing lately is pure BS in my mind too

there is no way to avoid it.....and if you guys are trying to say use distance as a way to alleviate this.....you need a slap in the face....have you even played corpus missions? unless youre out in the wide open space of the planets.....most of the tile sets are small and many many doors and corners....see as how spawning works....they WILL spawn in this corners, ahead of you, or to your side....so it is inevitable that you will be tackled down by a shock eximus

getting tired of peoples student "git gud" comments........give some constructive feedback instead of spouting S#&$ that you clearing do not understand

OP and many defending him have a very valid point and valid reason to complain.

[Urlan]

1 minute ago, Stratego89 said:

Literally there is not. This unit is a HORRIBLE one. I love nullifiers- they're good. The prevent power spam, introduce a VIP enemy for corpus, and work with their other units. I approve of Bursas (despite the fact that they need a speed/spam nerf of sorts). They're a heavy unit that does a decent job of causing havoc for you until you make it go away- no other corpus unit does that, you can deal with other stuff before the other units without constant harassment by them. Sure bombards could use a little nerf to their spam/rocket tracking. Every unit has it's goods and bads. Except this one. There is no counter play to a shock eximus. It just comes in and ruins your day, and that's it. That is bad design and it needs to change. That all being said- DE listens. I'm sure with the amount of hate these things are getting they'll be changed somehow soon enough.

While I also dislike the Shock Eximus doing Magnetic effects again, to be fair, the unit type proceeded the Nullifiers and Bursa and largely fills a lesser version of the same role, disruption and destroying the players' ability to fight back using abilities. Unlike the Shock Eximus, Nullifiers also stop bullets and penalize high damage weapons by both capping their damage per strike to the shield and high damage, high cost builds for warframe ability use. Bursa carry with in one case, the ability to launch nullifier mines; all feature boss level cumulative resistance to ability damage; area effect disruption moves with high stun or stagger times; and high life, armor, and complete immunity to damage or resistance to damage except from the back. While it can be seen as an enemy growing more and more adept at dealing with a less numerous but advantaged foe, realistically; Bursa, Nullifiers, and modular enemies would be akin to arming each member of your household with a bug spray tailored specifically to kill a type of bug that is annoying but numerically insignificant to you and will die just fine to a shoe and some house cleaning. The effect on the player base can be seen each time in region chat when the sorties have a Corpus presence where you must deal with all the enemies instead of running around and avoiding them.

[DiabolusUrsus]

1 hour ago, Sunfaiz said:

We don't have problems with the rest you know. Just Cheap BS that we can't counter

Not having problems doesn't mean they aren't largely unpolished and could use some improvement.

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

Disappointed to hear these are coming back. I don't even mind venomous eximus units because there's a chance to be saved by having the status removed, killing them before the proc, being healed, or healing yourself with life strike even if it's just enough to survive.

I mean, you can't even tell which way these things are coming from when the aura is around your feet, and the way enemies pile together means it can very easily be too late by the time you spot the slightly larger crewman.

1 hour ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

• Shock Eximi have had their magnetic auras removed, and now inflict guaranteed magnetic procs through a unique charged projectile attack.
• Venomous Eximi have had their poison auras removed, and now inflict toxin procs through a unique flurry of melee attacks.
• Blitz Eximi no longer use a copy-paste of Grineer Heavy radial blasts, and instead prompt enemies around them to rush forward and attack the player while conferring defensive bonuses to affected units.
• Arctic Nullifier Eximi have been replaced with Arson Nullifier Eximi.
• Energy Leech/Parasitic Eximi will now store energy stolen from Warframes, and restore that energy when killed.
• Energy Leech/Parasitic Eximi auras have been replaced with a draining version of Trinity's Link.
• Sanguine/Leech Eximi will regain health from the deaths of nearby allies in addition to damage dealt to the player.

Imaginary patch notes for "Problem Solved."

I rather like these suggestions because it creates something to react to. I would even suggest an opticor-style aiming beam coming from the shock eximus to indicate the target so a player can respond by attacking or fleeing without already having failed. It could even be a moderately sized AOE "EMP grenade" that puts down a circle first sapping osprey style. As long as it's not instant failure with such harsh penalties.

[J1ffyLub3]

1 hour ago, Sunfaiz said:

So When Im running from one extractor to another, I should move Cautiously ? When I'm Chasing after a capture target I should stay away from him if Mag eximus are nearby. That's a bad response. I Play this game for the movement system. I enjoy it. I don't want to change it because DE cant Balance for S#&$.

I never said you can't like and make use of the movement system. but having basic environmental awareness goes a long way 

[sekushiiandee]

Just now, J1ffyLub3 said:

I never said you can't like and make use of the movement system. but having basic environmental awareness goes a long way 

^ sorry but as i have put in my other post.....the limited space, corners, and tiles on corpus missions does not always allow for your environmental awareness

there could literally be (and this has happened for me multiple times already) a shock eximus behind a door in a hallway.....if im an invis loki....i cant do S#&$ because 1. i cant see ahead of me, 2. by the time i reach that area its already too late to react, and 3. im squishy as F***.

your environmental awareness preach only works in more wide open tile sets.....not to mention luck as well

i have to agree that movement style is very important in this game......why the F*** do we call ourselves ninjas when we cant even avoid or hide from things because the "environment" puts a choke-hold on our maneuverability

maybe in the lower level missions i can understand your argument.....but when you have an eximus stronghold....or any sortie mission with corpus....it is a straight death sentence

[Kalvorax]

Keep the magnetic proc BUT make it ONLY apply to MELEE attacks...if you get hit your screwed....make it EXACTLY like the ancient disruptor that has a 10% chance of triggering magnetic.....oh and make NPC magnetic proc do 1/2 to everything instead of 100%.....

[Stratego89]

12 minutes ago, Urlan said:

While I also dislike the Shock Eximus doing Magnetic effects again, to be fair, the unit type proceeded the Nullifiers and Bursa and largely fills a lesser version of the same role, disruption and destroying the players' ability to fight back using abilities. Unlike the Shock Eximus, Nullifiers also stop bullets and penalize high damage weapons by both capping their damage per strike to the shield and high damage, high cost builds for warframe ability use. Bursa carry with in one case, the ability to launch nullifier mines; all feature boss level cumulative resistance to ability damage; area effect disruption moves with high stun or stagger times; and high life, armor, and complete immunity to damage or resistance to damage except from the back. While it can be seen as an enemy growing more and more adept at dealing with a less numerous but advantaged foe, realistically; Bursa, Nullifiers, and modular enemies would be akin to arming each member of your household with a bug spray tailored specifically to kill a type of bug that is annoying but numerically insignificant to you and will die just fine to a shoe and some house cleaning. The effect on the player base can be seen each time in region chat when the sorties have a Corpus presence where you must deal with all the enemies instead of running around and avoiding them.

Instantly taking away any and all energy you have gathered/worked/waited for and shutting you down completely without any way to counter or avoid it- that is not OK. Period. The other units are fine. Look at ancient disrupters- they are fine. They have to HIT you, and that attack has a very well telegraphed warning that it is coming and is slow. Shock eximus walks in the room- everyone loses their energy- noone can see anything, and everything dies. There is no skill, there is no warning, It is not... ok. It is 100% anti-fun. if this is honestly the original intention of these units since they came in the game ages ago- but broken- then I have no clue what DE was thinking this time- and they need to change their thinking on it.

 

EDIT: Not to mention they are entirely anti-melee. You CANNOT melee them. Period. They shut you down. When DE has been pushing melee play so hard over the past few months, putting in something that specifically hurts that the most is extremely erratic and uncool.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Stratego89

[DiabolusUrsus]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)ElZilcho said:

I rather like these suggestions because it creates something to react to. I would even suggest an opticor-style aiming beam coming from the shock eximus to indicate the target so a player can respond by attacking or fleeing without already having failed. It could even be a moderately sized AOE "EMP grenade" that puts down a circle first sapping osprey style. As long as it's not instant failure with such harsh penalties.

Thanks. The idea was to create telegraphs to make some eximi less punishing, make Blitzes a little more interesting, help Sanguines/Leeches be somewhat more significant, Energy Leeches/Parasitics a little less annoying and easier to track, and tone down Nullifier combos so that they get an extra defense against melee rushers instead of doubling up on ranged resistance. 

Opticor-style visuals for projectile attacks on Eximi would also be ideal. 

Edited March 7, 2016 by DiabolusUrsus
Derp.

[CY13ERPUNK]

i dont understand why DE is obsessed with all of these 'aura' enemies

can we just get enemies that only drain IF THEY HIT YOU?

and then can we agree that 50% drain is enough [plus some additional flat amount so it would always do something, like say 50-100 shld dmg plus 50% drain, same for energy]

basically aura enemies have only 1 counterplay - kill them before they get near you, but that is often impossible, thus these enemies can simply reduce many solo runs to spending 5-10 mins waiting on pads after or before any engagement =/

i really hate how these enemy designs just continue to paint DE further into the corner of requiring trinity on any high lvl endeavor as well as the ridiculous spammy use of energy pads

i mean at this point, the WFs arent even that powerful, its the freaking pads man, pads OP, NERF PADS =/

 

[Slaviar]

Arguments eximus defenders use...

Switch weapon? After all it just takes 0.1 second...

Enviromental awareness? Sure, why not? Since all maps are full of big open areas where you can see enemies coming at you from miles away...

Use restore? OK, magnetic proc just takes away my energy, it doesn't stop me from gaining it.

STOP. Just stop.

[Specific.Zod]

3 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

Arguments eximus defenders use...

Switch weapon? After all it just takes 0.1 second...

Enviromental awareness? Sure, why not? Since all maps are full of big open areas where you can see enemies coming at you from miles away...

Use restore? OK, magnetic proc just takes away my energy, it doesn't stop me from gaining it.

STOP. Just stop.

pratically this apply for all unit. except for magnetic proc.

[Sunfaiz]

18 minutes ago, J1ffyLub3 said:

I never said you can't like and make use of the movement system. but having basic environmental awareness goes a long way 

So, I should just know that there's a guy behind a door that's not even opening yet ? Or that if I Jump from a low ledge to a high one of these guys will suck me dry ? Good Argument I should know exactly where everything is all the time. 

 

I can't tell if you're trolling or actually being serious.

[Rinslaughter]

The counter play is to grab your pitchfork and demand they remove/balance them. Its bad enough with nullifier being an instant death for several builds...

[J1ffyLub3]

10 minutes ago, Sunfaiz said:

I can't tell if you're trolling or actually being serious.

Im having the same issue with this community. It's like you guys want to be babied. yes, eximus could use more visual cues and spawning issues unfortunately cause people grief. but post after post you guys prove how resilient you are the change old habits and state it has 0 counterplay (some of you over exaggerate but some are dead serious). its scary honestly. This isnt a sandbox game where you can do whatever you want whenever you want, there's gonna be enemies that piss you off and stuff you need to adapt to. you guys claim you want more challenge to gameplay because enemies are simply bullet sponges, but when new stuff is implemented everyone cries out. its like a catch 22

how about this proposed change, we extend the radius of the eximus aura a tiny bit. when you get within the outer portion of the aura, only your screen scrambles (you wont lose energy/shields). if you continue to get closer, youll then lose the energy/shield when inside the inner portion of the aura. people don't like how surprising these guys can be when they affect you through walls or suddenly appear in front of you when you zip around. this would allow more time to react and avoid running into one face first or mistakenly get affected through the environment, while still retaining the core identity of being a shock eximus

Edited March 7, 2016 by J1ffyLub3

[Cipherid]

The issue I have with this unit is that its supposed to telegraph its imminent approach via rings around your ankles, unfortunately by the time you see the rings you're already in the range of the mag proc and there goes your energy/shields/HUD. I am one of those people who have to rely on the rings and the sounds they make as well because I cannot tell the difference between Eximi otherwise and even this only works so well until Eximi begin overriding each others' rings too.

The Shock Eximus' aura has hit me from behind walls and doors, even above/below me in a few cases because of multiple floors. I can't keep an eye out for what I cannot see or hear approaching on the same level as me. All I ask is for the Shock's warning rings to have an extended range, even if its a few extra metres, so I can tell when I'm in range rather than blindly guessing.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Animatronic
typos