The [Sancti] Castanas are broken, and thrown explosives are trash

[Telogor]

1. They're outperformed by all other explosive weapons, including throwing knives with Concealed Explosives.
2. Multishot completely destroys the accuracy of the [Sancti] Castanas.  It's like firing an Ogris/Torid with maxed Heavy Caliber.

They're so bad that I didn't even know the accuracy was broken because I haven't used them in a very long time.  I picked them up briefly tonight to use with my new Inaros because of the Purity effect, and I find out the accuracy's broken.  According to a comment on the Wikia page, it's been broken since the release of the Talons (another weapon that I forgot existed because it's so terrible).

EDIT: I found a workaround for the accuracy.  A low-ranked Magnum Force makes them pinpoint accurate.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by Telogor

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

Okay 2 things:

1. If you are going to post this at least offer some form of actual feedback, such as a suggestion for a buff or change in mechanics.

2. These weapons have their uses. They can act as stealthy explosives that can heal you, or you can use a trap setting frame (Vauban) with them and have a good time until lvl 80 enemies show up. 

I use them relatively often (often enough to put 5 forma into them as well as the talons) and they can kill things until a reasonably high level. All you did was take them on a few runs and now you think you understand it's limitations. However I have a hard time believing that considering the reasons listed in OP.

[Telogor]

2 hours ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

2. These weapons have their uses. They can act as stealthy explosives that can heal you, or you can use a trap setting frame (Vauban) with them and have a good time until lvl 80 enemies show up. 

I use them relatively often (often enough to put 5 forma into them as well as the talons) and they can kill things until a reasonably high level. All you did was take them on a few runs and now you think you understand it's limitations. However I have a hard time believing that considering the reasons listed in OP.

Goody for you.  I've had the Sancti Castanas since about a week after Syndicate weapons were released.  I never use them because in comparison to all the other explosives in the game, they're terrible:

• Low damage-- ~1500 damage per individual Sancti Castana with my current build.  For comparison, my Kulstar does about 4700 per individual rocket, plus damage from child grenades.
• Low flight speed-- Probably the lowest of any weapon in the game.  I could equip Lethal Momentum, but that would mean losing some of its already-pitiful damage.
• Low damage radius-- only about 2m, also the lowest of any weapon in the game.  There's not even a mod to increase this.
• Multishot accuracy is bugged-- I fixed this with a mod, but that's more damage I'm missing out on.

There's currently no reason for the Sancti Castanas to exist.  If you want a secondary that heals you, you can take the Vaykor Marelok or Telos Akbolto, among other things.  If you want stealthy explosives, take the Angstrum or Kulstar with Suppress.  I really want to like the [Sancti] Castanas and Talons, because I generally like thrown secondaries, but they're not ever really worth taking in a mission when you have alternatives that are flat-out better in every way.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Telogor

[----Fenrir----]

You can have some fun with them when playing with Loki or Ivara. Sticking those to enemies and making them explode can be entertaining to watch while being invisible. And there is stuff you can play around with.

That's it about the positive aspects. As an actual weapon those are terrible.

• Low damage
• Very clunky to use

When it comes to killing efficiency, aka how many enemies you can kill in a certain amount of time, than even the Lato is a superior weapon.

 

Edit: There are also ammo issues since they use sniper ammunition. For example using them and a bow at the same time will reduce the bow ammo pool to less than half of it's normal value.

Edited March 16, 2016 by ----Fenrir----

[IceColdHawk]

Castanas used to be cool when they had 210 ammo pool. Oh and also when trinity could kill peeps with god mode + link. Fun times.

Now they suck and aren't properly viable because of their lack of ammo. 

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

They serve a purpose other explosive weapons do not is the point I am trying to make. I like to use these with my saryn to spread spore/gas procs across the map. And I never have issues with ammo because you can only have a few out at once. Mine are modded for over 5000 damage per throw with a really high proc chance making them useful. Of course they aren't major damage dealers, they are not supposed to be. They are kind of like the furis with the winds of purity mod. I can agree with multishot being a pain in the @ss at times, but they are good at what they were put into the game to do.

Edited March 16, 2016 by (PS4)KikoEschobar

[Telogor]

1 hour ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

They serve a purpose other explosive weapons do not is the point I am trying to make. I like to use these with my saryn to spread spore/gas procs across the map. And I never have issues with ammo because you can only have a few out at once. Mine are modded for over 5000 damage per throw with a really high proc chance marking them useful. Of course they aren't major damage dealers, they are not supposed to be. They are kind of like the furis with the winds of purity mod. I can agree with multishot being a pain in the @ss at times, but they are good at what they were put into the game to do.

Name one thing that the [Sancti] Castanas can do that other weapons can't.  ONE THING.

Spread spore/gas procs across the map?  The Torid, Ignis, and Sonicor are infinitely better at that.  Even the Embolist is better at that than the [Sancti] Castanas.

5k damage per throw?  That's cute.  My Kulstar does about 14k per shot, and that doesn't even count the 9 child grenades.

High status chance?  The Kulstar can get its status chance almost as high, and actually procs more because of the 12 separate explosions per shot.

Ammo efficiency?  Lower than any other explosive weapon in the game.

My Furis with Winds of Purity does more damage than these pieces of junk.  It's also far better at healing you, if that was your point.

"They are good at what they were put into the game to do."  Are they really?  What were they "put into the game to do"?  Because the only thing I can think of is messing around with them when doing stealth missions.

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by Telogor

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

Just now, Telogor said:

Name one thing that the [Sancti] Castanas can do that other weapons can't.  ONE THING.

Spread spore/gas procs across the map?  The Torid, Ignis, and Sonicor are infinitely better at that.  Even the Embolist is better at that than the [Sancti] Castanas.

5k damage per throw?  That's cute.  My Kulstar does about 12k per shot, and that doesn't even count the 9 child grenades.

High status chance?  The Kulstar can get its status chance almost as high, and actually procs more because of the 12 separate explosions per shot.

Ammo efficiency?  Lower than any other explosive weapon in the game.

My Furis with Winds of Purity does more damage than these pieces of junk.  It's also far better at healing you, if that was your point.

"They are good at what they were put into the game to do."  Are they really?  What were they "put into the game to do"?

 

A. Your level of condescension has reached edgelord Ash levels.

B. Your comparisons to other weapons is the most blatant fallacy you could use in an argument. " Other things do this better than that" is in no way a solid rebuttal.

C. There is one unique mechanic these weapons have remember- the ability the user to control the detonation. I can place two of these on an enemy, watch him backtrack, and then detonate the explosives within a larger group all without taking any risk whatsoever. 

D. The sancti castanas are in the top 20 secondaries in this game in terms of burst DPS, the furis lies in the mid 40s. 

E. They are only ammo inefficient when because of the user, period. You can only throw a certain number at a time, meaning your ammo problems are soley on you. Simply placing charges properly will help you avoid running low on ammo.

F. You never touched the weapons before today, possibly haven't even forma'd the things, and assume what you've seen are the limitations of its capabilities. You're just that great I suppose.

G. I agreed with you on multishot because it is an annoying mechanic, but you have yet to offer any feesable solution to the problems plaguing the weapon. Rather than attacking me for my opinion, maybe you should try and find a reasonable solution. Otherwise this thread of your's will fall by the waistside like countless before it.

 

[calmchaos]

16 minutes ago, Telogor said:

Name one thing that the [Sancti] Castanas can do that other weapons can't.  ONE THING.

Spread spore/gas procs across the map?  The Torid, Ignis, and Sonicor are infinitely better at that.  Even the Embolist is better at that than the [Sancti] Castanas.

5k damage per throw?  That's cute.  My Kulstar does about 12k per shot, and that doesn't even count the 9 child grenades.

High status chance?  The Kulstar can get its status chance almost as high, and actually procs more because of the 12 separate explosions per shot.

Ammo efficiency?  Lower than any other explosive weapon in the game.

My Furis with Winds of Purity does more damage than these pieces of junk.  It's also far better at healing you, if that was your point.

"They are good at what they were put into the game to do."  Are they really?  What were they "put into the game to do"?  Because the only thing I can think of is messing around with them when doing stealth missions.

EDIT: Holy crap, I just realized I was talking to a MR1.  I think he bought the Castanas with plat and is now trying to justify his purchase to himself.

 

 

 

Please don't tell me you're one of those people who actually think that your forum rank is even remotely related to your in-game MR. Because it's not.

Next, I really don't think you have any right to talk about MR when you're making it appear as if you don't know that you cannot acquire a syndicate weapon by trading unless you're MR 8/12. He was referring to the Sancti's specifically since he mentioned the effect of the Winds of Purity mod in a comparison. KikoEschobar was talking to you as an equal, without being rude. You have no reason to talk down to him/her like that as if your one opinion of "the Sancti Castanas are broken" makes you better than anyone who thinks otherwise.

Now that we're hopefully being civilized, you should take note that KikoEschobar never said anything about the Santi's being better than any other weapon at anything at all. KikoEschobar said, "they are good at what they were put into the game to do," and they are. Is it easy to spread status procs around with them? Yes, it is. Is it better than most weapons at that? No, but it doesn't have to be. Does it have decent damage? Yes, it actually does. Every weapon doesn't have to be viable for sorties, and just because a weapon doesn't have the damage necessary to take sorties on doesn't mean it's broken or crap. It just means that it's not an end game weapon.

Now how about rather than comparing them to other weapons you actually put forth some suggestions for improvement. For example, one major issue I have with them is that I can't stand how you're unable to empty your entire ammo supply before detonating. The ammo supply is already so low that there's no reason to further restrict them by limiting how many you can have out at once. That's my primary concern. Their damage is fine. They do not need to do Kulstar levels of damage, and I'd much rather they didn't. Although, I do agree that their blast radius could use some improvement. A blast radius mod for secondaries is well overdue as it is.

[Telogor]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

A. Your level of condescension has reached edgelord Ash levels.

I'm being condescending because you refuse to listen to reason.

33 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

B. Your comparisons to other weapons is the most blatant fallacy you could use in an argument. " Other things do this better than that" is in no way a solid rebuttal.

Actually, it's quite a good argument.  You said that it had a purpose, and I gave a whole list of things that beat your Castanas at what you say is their own game.

 

33 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

C. There is one unique mechanic these weapons have remember- the ability the user to control the detonation. I can place two of these on an enemy, watch him backtrack, and then detonate the explosives within a larger group all without taking any risk whatsoever. 

I will give you this: the Castanas/Talons are the only weapons in the game that can attach to an enemy, wait until the enemy has walked back to his group, and then detonate.  However, that is the least useful "use" of any weapon that comes to mind.

 

33 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

D. The sancti castanas are in the top 20 secondaries in this game in terms of burst DPS, the furis lies in the mid 40s.

What calculator are you using for that?  Anyway, that's an irrelevant statistic: it assumes perfect accuracy, no headshots, and no travel time.  The Furis I cited has good accuracy out to long range, no damage falloff, no travel time, and can hit headshots.  It's sustained, not burst.  For a more in-game comparison, the Furis has an unmodded 150 damage per second, which scales with fire rate.  The Castanas have an unmodded 100 damage per second, which does not scale with fire rate.  (I'm getting the 100 number based on the fact that you're probably not hitting with more than 1 Castana per second.)  The Castanas only pull ahead if you can get them to hit more than one enemy per Castana, which is not going to happen in most cases because of the terrible damage radius.

 

33 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

They are only ammo inefficient when because of the user, period. You can only throw a certain number at a time, meaning your ammo problems are soley on you. Simply placing charges properly will help you avoid running low on ammo.

No, they're ammo-inefficient because they do less than half the damage of any other explosive weapon.  You naturally need at least 2 units of ammo to match one unit of ammo from any other explosive weapon.  Add in the fact that your multishot is going to miss unless you waste a mod slot on a low-rank Magnum Force, and you're looking at less than a third of the damage per ammo of other explosive weapons.

 

33 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

F. You never touched the weapons before today, possibly haven't even forma'd the things, and assume what you've seen are the limitations of its capabilities. You're just that great I suppose.

I never said that.  I said I never use them because I have better weapons.  I have 3M XP and 2.6k kills with them.  I have another 2.5M XP and 6.3k kills with the regular Castanas.  I have not forma'd them, but I forma very few weapons and they come with 3 polarities by default.  My Kulstar that I keep comparing to the Sancti Castanas also has 3 polarities, and I only put the 3rd on yesterday.

 

33 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

G. I agreed with you on multishot because it is an annoying mechanic, but you have yet to offer any feesable solution to the problems plaguing the weapon. Rather than attacking me for my opinion, maybe you should try and find a reasonable solution. Otherwise this thread of your's will fall by the waistside like countless before it.

You want a solution?  Here you go: buff the damage up to 400 at base, fix the accuracy, and increase the flight speed.  I'm not attacking you for your opinion; I'm attacking your opinion for bad logic.  Also, feasible* yours* wayside*

Edited March 16, 2016 by Telogor

[Telogor]

41 minutes ago, calmchaos said:

Please don't tell me you're one of those people who actually think that your forum rank is even remotely related to your in-game MR. Because it's not.

Next, I really don't think you have any right to talk about MR when you're making it appear as if you don't know that you cannot acquire a syndicate weapon by trading unless you're MR 8/12. He was referring to the Sancti's specifically since he mentioned the effect of the Winds of Purity mod in a comparison. KikoEschobar was talking to you as an equal, without being rude. You have no reason to talk down to him/her like that as if your one opinion of "the Sancti Castanas are broken" makes you better than anyone who thinks otherwise.

Now that we're hopefully being civilized, you should take note that KikoEschobar never said anything about the Santi's being better than any other weapon at anything at all. KikoEschobar said, "they are good at what they were put into the game to do," and they are. Is it easy to spread status procs around with them? Yes, it is. Is it better than most weapons at that? No, but it doesn't have to be. Does it have decent damage? Yes, it actually does. Every weapon doesn't have to be viable for sorties, and just because a weapon doesn't have the damage necessary to take sorties on doesn't mean it's broken or crap. It just means that it's not an end game weapon.

Now how about rather than comparing them to other weapons you actually put forth some suggestions for improvement. For example, one major issue I have with them is that I can't stand how you're unable to empty your entire ammo supply before detonating. The ammo supply is already so low that there's no reason to further restrict them by limiting how many you can have out at once. That's my primary concern. Their damage is fine. They do not need to do Kulstar levels of damage, and I'd much rather they didn't. Although, I do agree that their blast radius could use some improvement. A blast radius mod for secondaries is well overdue as it is.

If you'll notice, I checked myself on that point and deleted it before you even replied.  I initially put that there because I thought I was overestimating the experience of the person against whom I was arguing.

Saying I'm talking down to him misses the entire point of my argument.  The thrown explosive weapons are trash.  I provided solid evidence to back up my claim, and I have yet to see any counterargument that uses facts and evidence to disprove me.  "Broken" was supposed to just be in reference to the accuracy, but I changed the post while making it and forgot to change the title to match the content.

"Is it easy to spread status procs with them?"  No.  They're wildly inaccurate without wasting a mod slot on Magnum Force, they have insanely slow projectile velocity, and they have a terribly small damage radius.  "Does it have decent damage?"  No.  The DPS you can actually apply to enemies is much lower than comparable weapons.  It's also lower than multiple other weapons that have been forgotten by most people because of their mediocrity: the Twin Gremlins, Furis, Bolto, Vasto, and plenty of other weapons are mid-tier and still apply more damage to the enemy at normal combat range.

"Every weapon doesn't have to be viable for sorties."  When did I say that every weapon does have to be viable for Sorties?  I'm saying that the weapons need a buff, especially the Sancti Castanas.  They're a late-game weapon available only via trading or getting to max rank with the New Loka.  They need to be buffed to match their exclusivity.  The Kulstar, which is available from the market at MR 4, is by far a better weapon than the Sancti Castanas, which are available only after a very long grind at MR6.  Assuming someone is at MR6 when he joins the New Loka, does not run syndicate missions, gains all of his available Sigil standing every day, and doesn't spend any of it, it will take him 48 days to get the Sancti Castanas.  Where's the return on investment?  He gets what basically amounts to Mastery fodder for a 48-day grind.  It's possible to get it faster, but I doubt anyone at MR 6 would be able to get the weapons in 3 weeks.  The rest of the syndicate weapons (except maybe the Secura Dual Cestras) are all top-tier, easily capable of doing Sorties and long survivals.  The Sancti Castanas need a buff to match those.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Telogor

[Rydian]

49 minutes ago, Telogor said:

Saying I'm talking down to him misses the entire point of my argument.

But it's a factual observation, and one that gives people a reason to brush you off.  People are much less likely to take you seriously when you end up complaining about the person more than the weapon.

Anyways...

"Multishot destroys their accuracy" - This is true, surprisingly.  I didn't remember this happening and went to test it to get screenshots comparing the two (100% versus 0), and it does happen now.  It's definitely a downside I don't notice with other weapons.  And as the edit to your first post states, a low-ranked Magnum force (which subtracts accuracy) causes them to be much more accurate with multishot.  Given this, I assume it's a bug.

No Multishot

- Multishot

- Multishot With Unranked Magnum Force

So this could probably use some fixing, but I'm going to go post it in a new thread actually focused on the bug so the devs can get to it.

EDIT: Unless you want to do it, that is.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Rydian

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

55 minutes ago, Telogor said:

I'm being condescending because you refuse to listen to reason.

Actually, it's quite a good argument.  You said that it had a purpose, and I gave a whole list of things that beat your Castanas at what you say is their own game. 

 

I will give you this: the Castanas/Talons are the only weapons in the game that can attach to an enemy, wait until the enemy has walked back to his group, and then detonate.  However, that is the least useful "use" of any weapon that comes to mind.

 

What calculator are you using for that?  Anyway, that's an irrelevant statistic: it assumes perfect accuracy, no headshots, and no travel time.  The Furis I cited has good accuracy out to long range, no damage falloff, no travel time, and can hit headshots.  It's sustained, not burst.  For a more in-game comparison, the Furis has an unmodded 150 damage per second, which scales with fire rate.  The Castanas have an unmodded 100 damage per second, which does not scale with fire rate.  (I'm getting the 100 number based on the fact that you're probably not hitting with more than 1 Castana per second.)  The Castanas only pull ahead if you can get them to hit more than one enemy per Castana, which is not going to happen in most cases because of the terrible damage radius.

 

No, they're ammo-inefficient because they do less than half the damage of any other explosive weapon.  You naturally need at least 2 units of ammo to match one unit of ammo from any other explosive weapon.  Add in the fact that your multishot is going to miss unless you waste a mod slot on a low-rank Magnum Force, and you're looking at less than a third of the damage per ammo of other explosive weapons.

 

I never said that.  I said I never use them because I have better weapons.  I have 3M XP and 2.6k kills with them.  I have another 2.5M XP and 6.3k kills with the regular Castanas.  I have not forma'd them, but I forma very few weapons and they come with 3 polarities by default.  My Kulstar that I keep comparing to the Sancti Castanas also has 3 polarities, and I only put the 3rd on yesterday.

 

You want a solution?  Here you go: buff the damage up to 400 at base, fix the accuracy, and increase the flight speed.  I'm not attacking you for your opinion; I'm attacking your opinion for bad logic.  Also, feasible* yours* wayside*

That would be a unprecedented increase in base damage for a weapon that needs a few tweaks to be endgame viable. I can get behind flight speed and accuracy, but that bass damage is a little to high. Rather than 400, I believe an increase to 150 and an additional 2 in the clip would be sufficient damage wise.

To take it further, I think Calmchaos brought an excellent point to the table. The limitation on the number of traps you can have out at once only serves to deter people from using them. Relinquish that, and they may be seen as useful past 45 mins t4 (my personal experience as to when the weapon becomes more liability than asset).

[Xekrin]

3 hours ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

There are also ammo issues since they use sniper ammunition. For example using them and a bow at the same time will reduce the bow ammo pool to less than half of it's normal value.

Exactly, you cannot have a true silenced arsenal (without the use of mods, hence true) because using a bow + these = pointless.  That in and of itself makes it vital they get a bit of an upgrade.  If we are doomed to a 30 ammo limit when using a bow, then make those damned rounds count.

Other launchers get far more ammo capacity and do way more damage, and now with adhesive blast mod, they even stick to things.  What's worse is talons came out as this great new version of remote mines but they are just the same old castanas with no improvements at all.

[calmchaos]

1 hour ago, Telogor said:

If you'll notice, I checked myself on that point and deleted it before you even replied.  I initially put that there because I thought I was overestimating the experience of the person against whom I was arguing.

Saying I'm talking down to him misses the entire point of my argument.  The thrown explosive weapons are trash.  I provided solid evidence to back up my claim, and I have yet to see any counterargument that uses facts and evidence to disprove me.  "Broken" was supposed to just be in reference to the accuracy, but I changed the post while making it and forgot to change the title to match the content.

"Is it easy to spread status procs with them?"  No.  They're wildly inaccurate without wasting a mod slot on Magnum Force, they have insanely slow projectile velocity, and they have a terribly small damage radius.  "Does it have decent damage?"  No.  The DPS you can actually apply to enemies is much lower than comparable weapons.  It's also lower than multiple other weapons that have been forgotten by most people because of their mediocrity: the Twin Gremlins, Furis, Bolto, Vasto, and plenty of other weapons are mid-tier and still apply more damage to the enemy at normal combat range.

"Every weapon doesn't have to be viable for sorties."  When did I say that every weapon does have to be viable for Sorties?  I'm saying that the weapons need a buff, especially the Sancti Castanas.  They're a late-game weapon available only via trading or getting to max rank with the New Loka.  They need to be buffed to match their exclusivity.  The Kulstar, which is available from the market at MR 4, is by far a better weapon than the Sancti Castanas, which are available only after a very long grind at MR6.  Assuming someone is at MR6 when he joins the New Loka, does not run syndicate missions, gains all of his available Sigil standing every day, and doesn't spend any of it, it will take him 48 days to get the Sancti Castanas.  Where's the return on investment?  He gets what basically amounts to Mastery fodder for a 48-day grind.  It's possible to get it faster, but I doubt anyone at MR 6 would be able to get the weapons in 3 weeks.  The rest of the syndicate weapons (except maybe the Secura Dual Cestras) are all top-tier, easily capable of doing Sorties and long survivals.  The Sancti Castanas need a buff to match those.

My bad. I must have been writing my response when that happened, so I didn't see the change.

Ah. I see what you mean by the accuracy now. I level gear using spy missions, so I hadn't seen the difference between with and without multishot. That lead me to believe its multishot accuracy was normal, so I just adjusted how I used them. There's definitely some kind of bug going on there. If you don't mind and if this isn't fixed in the next patch, I'll start linking this thread in the patch threads to help spread awareness. I know it isn't the only issue you want fixed, but this problem is especially annoying.

Detonating them above the enemies' heads for headshots has worked well enough for me in terms of damage and procs, at least it worked well enough at ~20-30mins into T2/3 survival. That said, I only ever threw them into tight crowds, so accuracy was never an issue for me. I do agree that their radius is small and 100% needs to have something done about it. I'd personally suggest a secondary mod similar to Firestorm. Some secondaries seriously warrant a mod like that. It doesn't make sense that Concealed Explosives has a 10m radius while the Castanas have a 2m radius.

As for their travel time, I prefer it the way it is since the only two situations I ever use them in are when I'm playing around and having enemies kill their own brethren as kamikazis or when I'm headshotting. In the first case travel time is irrelevant, and in the second I have to lead the shot anyway. They've never seemed slow to me as a mid-range weapon. I can definitely see an issue arising if you attempt to throw them from a good distance though.

Sorties are really the only content that requires good damage. That's why I brought it up. I agree with what you're saying about them being a late game weapon, so they should be pretty decent and not as weak as they are now. If it takes 48 days to get a weapon, then yes it should be at least mildly dangerous to high level enemies when modded properly. Thank you for adding that point. I wasn't making my argument with that in mind, so I'll certainly concede on the point of it needing a damage buff. All the syndicate weapons do need to be relatively similar as to how well they do in higher content. I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with that part of your argument.

Assuming the accuracy is a bug, the only part I'm gonna have to say I don't fully agree with now is travel time. I just logged on to check the weapon out again since it's been a while, and the travel time seemed ok to me. With the idea that their damage sucks, yeah the travel time is a big negative for that amount of damage. However, if they buff the damage by a good amount, I think the travel time would be just fine where it is now.

EDIT: I do still want the charge limit removed, but I doubt that would ever happen in tandem with a damage increase.

Edited March 16, 2016 by calmchaos

[CriticalFumble]

In their favor, its worth noting that they always proc electricity to targets in their initial blast radius.  Though its electricity which is not an ideal element to have, it still means another 50% damage withing 5 meters of each hit target. 

I don't recall these being truly ineffective until you reach the level where enemy scaling is broken to the point where only the most cheeseable weapons keep up.  At the moment buffing it might get it into sorties - if that's really a goal - but damage 3.0 is being worked which should^tm fix some of the issues like this. 

[phoenix1992]

They are efficient and actually fun.
The issue, is that this equipment is not... how to say it...
You are not supposed to use that in all missions. As most syndy weapons, you can use them to clean up the planet map + using them in specific sorties. But they are not all rounder equipment, and I am okay with that.

[Herosupport]

To the recycling bin with em and all their versions.

Say hello to the Sancti AKJagara their replacement... Please DE.

[SchadowfighterX]

plz DE fix this probably unintended bug. i dont want to waste a mod slot just for an unranked magnum force

[Telogor]

7 hours ago, SchadowfighterX said:

plz DE fix this probably unintended bug. i dont want to waste a mod slot just for an unranked magnum force

I'm pretty sure it was fixed a long time ago.