BornWithTeeth Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Starting this thread to ask a question about an idea which has become super popular since the Second Dream. More and more, people are referring to independent Warframes, and insisting that the Operators only seem to control their 'frames. A popular idea about the Stalker is that he's an independent Warframe, who either never had an Operator, or who somehow managed to kill his Operator and 'steal' their Void power. A lot of the time, when people speculate about Umbra Warframes, they do so in terms of them being their own faction, making their own decisions. Now, I don't really agree with this theory, I think it really doesn't have much evidence to support it at all, but I'm not starting this thread just to argue about it. I'm kinda curious about where the idea came from, and why it is so popular. The Second Dream gave us the answer to a question ("How do Warframes work?") by saying "Warframes are controlled remotely by the Tenno." Following this, it seems to me as though people immediately began saying "Yes, that's an answer, but what if everything we just learned in the Second Dream completely false, and the Warframes are actually just doing it all themselves?" So, uh. Yeah. I get that people like the theory. What I don't get is why it's so widespread, and why people are arguing that it must be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrizzly Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 The shadow debt event also supports the theory that the frames can be separate :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genitive Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I have a feeling this theory was made by the people who didn't like the outcome of the Second Dream. There, I said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrizzly Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 1 minute ago, Genitive said: I have a feeling this theory was made by the people who didn't like the outcome of the Second Dream. There, I said it. I like the outcome of it, it's just there's more to this whole thing than what DE is telling us :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genitive Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said: I like the outcome of it, it's just there's more to this whole thing than what DE is telling us :P That's true, I'm just being salty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrizzly Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Just now, Genitive said: That's true, I'm just being salty. About the people who are mad about the outcome of the Second Dream? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriticalFumble Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 7 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said: So, uh. Yeah. I get that people like the theory. What I don't get is why it's so widespread, and why people are arguing that it must be true. Because the player base is dreaming, not of what they are, but of what they want to be. (question mark) It follows, actually sits well with what the Tenno really are. Maybe it should be considered a form of role playing? 7 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said: The shadow debt event also supports the theory that the frames can be separate :P Does not follow. They joined the Stalker fan club, but there's no actual evidence that they're independent beyond wishing it were so. Might as well argue this: Yesterday my mailbox was empty. This today it was filled. Therefore there must be a magic portal in it for the letters to arrive by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelo0 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 There is no definitive evidence that the operator controls the warframe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrizzly Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 1 minute ago, CriticalFumble said: Does not follow. They joined the Stalker fan club, but there's no actual evidence that they're independent beyond wishing it were so. Might as well argue this: Yesterday my mailbox was empty. This today it was filled. Therefore there must be a magic portal in it for the letters to arrive by. Independent from the Tenno. Their dialogue does support it, but it all comes down to if they know who they are or not. Or just being oblivious to it, if that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 1 minute ago, skelo0 said: There is no definitive evidence that the operator controls the warframe What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genitive Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said: About the people who are mad about the outcome of the Second Dream? Don't judge me... On a serious note, I don't think warframes are independent. At least not yet. The only possible hint at it (that I remember) was at the end of the Second Dream, when we broke War, but it was rather the Operator's last effort. Edited March 16, 2016 by Genitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornWithTeeth Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 4 minutes ago, EmptyDevil said: What? Yeah, see, that's exactly the kind of thing which I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrveth Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I think the theory is very popular with people who have seen Neon Genesis Evangelion, the image of your Warframe ripping the War out of its chest is evocative of an Evangelion going berserk. People who have not seen it often seem to insist, for example, that actually the Operator was controlling the frame at that moment, since they were in the Somatic Link room. I do believe the Rhino codex entry is also in support of the theory, most likely telling of a proto-frame acting independently. But then comes the problem of just how independent an Operator-free Warframe is. For example, if the Stalker is truly one such, that raises multiple ethical issues that I doubt the developers would be keen on exploring. Then again I may be wrong. Perhaps they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriticalFumble Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Just now, skelo0 said: There is no definitive evidence that the operator controls the warframe Except that they fall to the ground like they're marionettes with the strings cut every time Transference is disrupted. 2 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said: Independent from the Tenno. Their dialogue does support it, but it all comes down to if they know who they are or not. Or just being oblivious to it, if that is the case. In what capacity? All I heard was gripping about us protecting Alad V and acting like they joined a wacky Stalker/Sentient worshiping cult. And if they don't know they're just frames, they how do they imply it? Do frames have a noticeable accent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimlock84 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, skelo0 said: There is no definitive evidence that the operator controls the warframe You mean, besides for warframes only existing to be outlets for tennos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlerift Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, skelo0 said: There is no definitive evidence that the operator controls the warframe Except for the Warframe becoming inactive when the Operator woke up; the Warframe only reactivating when physically touched by the Operator; the Operator commenting on what it feels like to be controlling the Warframe during missions; and the entire backstory we're given by the Orokin ghosts during the Second Dream. It would seem that the Warframes can act on their own, re: the Second Dream's ending, but it seems unlikely that they are doing everything. In the Second Dream the Warframe had to struggle to remove War from it's chest, whereas in game they quite happily display feats of strength far beyond that. Of course, gameplay and lore don't always match-up, but I would still argue that the Operator's and the... well... operators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelo0 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Just because the warframe can't function without the operator, doesn't mean that the operator controls it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimlock84 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 1 minute ago, skelo0 said: Just because the warframe can't function without the operator, doesn't mean that the operator controls it. What? Exactly how salty are you over second dream that you can't even be bothered to make sense anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelo0 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Imagine a computer, it has all of the parts to make it work, but it can't do anything without being plugged into the power but once it is, it can do stuff independently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrizzly Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 10 minutes ago, Genitive said: Don't judge me... On a serious note, I don't think warframes are independent. At least not yet. The only possible hint at it (that I remember) was at the end of the Second Dream, when we broke War, but it was rather the Operator's last effort. Not the Shadow Debt? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlerift Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, skelo0 said: Just because the warframe can't function without the operator, doesn't mean that the operator controls it. My Warframe is the hand, and I am the will. - The Operator. Edited March 16, 2016 by Littlerift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornWithTeeth Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 4 minutes ago, skelo0 said: Imagine a computer, it has all of the parts to make it work, but it can't do anything without being plugged into the power but once it is, it can do stuff independently I've, ah, seen inside a Tenno, yes, and what I saw didn't make sense. -Alad V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorfirebox Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Well, it's clear from the Rhino Prime entry (with additional evidence in Second Dream) that warframes can act independently. It isn't known how intelligent they are, nor is it known if they can access their powers independently; there's certainly some evidence to suggest they can't (e.g. all the times people have dissected captured frames and found no mechanism to access their void powers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelo0 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Just now, BornWithTeeth said: I've, ah, seen inside a Tenno, yes, and what I saw didn't make sense. -Alad V Because even though it worked fine, it had no power source (that he could see) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimlock84 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, skelo0 said: Imagine a computer, it has all of the parts to make it work, but it can't do anything without being plugged into the power but once it is, it can do stuff independently Ah yes because power cells don't exist whatsoever in this world. only thing that could possibly ever power a warframe is magic childrens. This theory of yours also puts any possible self doubt the stalker had with his own exisence as a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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