RIP competitive PvP. Dark Sectors will no longer have PvP according to dev stream 71.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)Warlord Wolfy said:

Yeah I could have explained why I brought Warzone up better.  The idea behind the mechanic is what truely makes it function.  An well yes you could farm kills on there.  You could do the same on rails and every other pvp mode on other games out there, against lesser skilled players of course.  That though is also the nature of the beast with objective style game modes.

But in Warframe it's not as big of a deal cause in Halo people love protecting their waypoint stats and of course in Arena people will find you, kill you, and burn down your house you just paid a down-payment for if you messed up their CSR ranking for the season lolol.  :)

 

Edited March 28, 2016 by (XB1)Lorewalker1022

[(XBOX)Warlord Wolfy]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Lorewalker1022 said:

But in Warframe it's not as big of a deal cause in Halo people love protecting their waypoint stats and of course in Arena people will find you, kill you, and burn down your house you just paid a down-payment for if you messed up their CSR ranking for the season lolol.  :)

 

XD  Now I know your just having fun with it there Lore lol.  Even though some may actaully go to that extent lol.

Edited March 29, 2016 by (XB1)Warlord Wolfy

[pavlo555]

To the main point - Dark Sector PvP was not exactly competetive, rather cheesy as hell. Not only the clans would abuse the hell out of cheesy weapons, the way things worked made the addition of a new player a pain , because he did not have mods and stuff... Especially for the attacker side since deaths mattered.

Why am I saying that? Conclave 2.0 is not balanced either. If Dark Sectors took place right now , we would have had a ton of campers with Dex Noobaris (silent and "balanced") since it is the most efficient strategy... but boring as hell. And newbies would have been only for pain with the matchmaking we have.

Why fun and balance part is needed there? Because conclave is/was/will be an addition and nothing more than that. PvE part = main part of the game, anddevs make the most focus on PvE part, and they are not offering any kind of way for PvP to be needed, and trust me, dark sectors matter unless you are a Draco grinder. Killing dark sectors with PvP = Granting less ways to rank your weapons whilst interacting , shortening the time spent with them at the same time. Unless Dark sector won't matter, we shouldn't put our conclave into it.

Edited March 29, 2016 by pavlo555

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

2 hours ago, pavlo555 said:

To the main point - Dark Sector PvP was not exactly competetive, rather cheesy as hell. Not only the clans would abuse the hell out of cheesy weapons, the way things worked made the addition of a new player a pain , because he did not have mods and stuff... Especially for the attacker side since deaths mattered.

Why am I saying that? Conclave 2.0 is not balanced either. If Dark Sectors took place right now , we would have had a ton of campers with Dex Noobaris (silent and "balanced") since it is the most efficient strategy... but boring as hell. And newbies would have been only for pain with the matchmaking we have.

Why fun and balance part is needed there? Because conclave is/was/will be an addition and nothing more than that. PvE part = main part of the game, anddevs make the most focus on PvE part, and they are not offering any kind of way for PvP to be needed, and trust me, dark sectors matter unless you are a Draco grinder. Killing dark sectors with PvP = Granting less ways to rank your weapons whilst interacting , shortening the time spent with them at the same time. Unless Dark sector won't matter, we shouldn't put our conclave into it.

What do you mean by " Granting less ways to rank up your weapon whilst interacting " ?

[(XBOX)Warlord Wolfy]

3 hours ago, pavlo555 said:

1)To the main point - Dark Sector PvP was not exactly competetive, rather cheesy as hell. Not only the clans would abuse the hell out of cheesy weapons, the way things worked made the addition of a new player a pain , because he did not have mods and stuff... Especially for the attacker side since deaths mattered.

2)Why am I saying that? Conclave 2.0 is not balanced either. If Dark Sectors took place right now , we would have had a ton of campers with Dex Noobaris (silent and "balanced") since it is the most efficient strategy... but boring as hell. And newbies would have been only for pain with the matchmaking we have.

3)Why fun and balance part is needed there? Because conclave is/was/will be an addition and nothing more than that. PvE part = main part of the game, anddevs make the most focus on PvE part, and they are not offering any kind of way for PvP to be needed, and trust me, dark sectors matter unless you are a Draco grinder. Killing dark sectors with PvP = Granting less ways to rank your weapons whilst interacting , shortening the time spent with them at the same time. Unless Dark sector won't matter, we shouldn't put our conclave into it.

Ok I have a couple issues with what your saying here and it may all stem from your experience with them.

1)The only real cheese weapon I ever saw was syn gamm, and it got nerfed.  As for the new players.  That really comes down to who they are playing with.  My clan for instance has members, like myself, that hold a special rank to solve this issue.  It is my job to inform new player oh how to properly equip, mod, and run the solar rails.  An if it is needed.  It is also my job to unlock the nods for them, along with helping them get the equipment they need.

2)Campers?  This must be a PC thing, because it dosnt happen on xb1.  An if it did theres a 95% chance that they would be dead with in 5 seconds.  AS for the matchmakng, again all comes down to who you play with.

3)I dont even know where to begin here.  It seems like a jumbled collection of thoughts and opions........

I guess will start with the pve.  Yes pve is the main part of the game.  Yes pve is an important part of the game.  Yes pve is were 90% of weapons and mods come from.  No one is disputing this fact at all.  They are offer pvp though.  You see theres this thing called conclave that you yourself brought up also.  That is pvp, it is part of the game, they are offering it and it is needed.  Pvp isnt just a way to compete.  Its a completely different way to play a game in general.  It give a completely different eperience of the game.  An weither you like pvp or not it does prolong the life of every game it has ever been added to.  Not that WF's life is in danager at all, but it will bring in more players.  More players means more money for DE.  More money for DE means the more they can do.  Which in turn makes the game we all love and play that much better.  As for the weapons.  I have found that weapons that I would perfer to never use in pve.  Are freaking awsome weapons in pvp.  So it does make it so that every weapon has its place to excel.  Which is actually a very good thing.  It makes it so less of the weapons we have just become MR bait.  An pvp wont kill dark sectors.  If that was the cause then why do we still have them?  Why are they not dead already?  If it wasnt for the solar rails we wouldnt even be having this conversation about the dark sectors.  So you see pvp has a much bigger place in this game than most may like or admit.

Edited March 29, 2016 by (XB1)Warlord Wolfy

[Kai_Shiba]

 

 

[CandyDragon]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Warlord Wolfy said:

2)Campers?  This must be a PC thing, because it dosnt happen on xb1.  An if it did theres a 95% chance that they would be dead with in 5 seconds.  AS for the matchmakng, again all comes down to who you play with.

This isn't a console peasant joke, Console versions of warframe are much slower due to your inputs.  The analog stick aiming makes you guys have to slow down to do anything.  Imagine moving at 8x console movement speeds while having someone consistently aiming during the crazy slides flips, and during that time, coptering. It was hell, and hardly fun. 

Edited March 30, 2016 by Nariala

[(XBOX)Warlord Wolfy]

49 minutes ago, Nariala said:

This isn't a console peasant joke, Console versions of warframe are much slower due to your inputs.  The analog stick aiming makes you guys have to slow down to do anything.  Imagine moving at 8x console movement speeds while having someone consistently aiming during the crazy slides flips, and during that time, coptering. It was hell, and hardly fun. 

For starters, leave that consule peasant stuff at the door.  It dosnt make you look tuff that you can type insults.

Now onto the real matter at hand.  What console is it that you have played WF on?  Also what console was it that you you saw that these same things dont happen?  Im actually really curious here.  An its mainly do.  To the point that we have ex-wf px players in our clan and alliance.  An every single one of them that I have talked to.  Have always told me the only difference between our versions.  Is that you guys do all the bug testing for us consule players.

[Phasedragon]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Warlord Wolfy said:

For starters, leave that consule peasant stuff at the door.  It dosnt make you look tuff that you can type insults.

Now onto the real matter at hand.  What console is it that you have played WF on?  Also what console was it that you you saw that these same things dont happen?  Im actually really curious here.  An its mainly do.  To the point that we have ex-wf px players in our clan and alliance.  An every single one of them that I have talked to.  Have always told me the only difference between our versions.  Is that you guys do all the bug testing for us consule players.

Ah, the age old question of "controller vs mouse and keyboard"

 

I'll leave the console peasant stuff at the door because I don't think there's anything wrong with playing on a console, but when it comes to shooters, mouse and keyboards are far faster and more precise, especially when it comes to PVP, hands down, no contest. This is exactly why controllers have aim assist, because they need it to compensate. Even then, it's not going to entirely fix the core problems of controlling a shooter with sticks.

[CandyDragon]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Warlord Wolfy said:

For starters, leave that consule peasant stuff at the door.  It dosnt make you look tuff that you can type insults.

Now onto the real matter at hand.  What console is it that you have played WF on?  Also what console was it that you you saw that these same things dont happen?  Im actually really curious here.  An its mainly do.  To the point that we have ex-wf px players in our clan and alliance.  An every single one of them that I have talked to.  Have always told me the only difference between our versions.  Is that you guys do all the bug testing for us consule players.

I only added the clarification because historically any indication that the PC platform is faster or that the consoles are slower in their behaviors almost always ends up with what occurred right here.  PC pvp is an entirely differen't animal from console, and I more or less stated that. Many of the problems with darksector are on the PC end of things because the skill ceiling is much higher, and the game within that is much faster paced. 

The console game is much more deliberate in its pacing because controller inputs. This isn't a bad thing, it is just the nature of your chosen platform. 

[(XBOX)Warlord Wolfy]

(Nods)  I can agree with both of you on this. As I to was once a pc only guy until I switch to consule only with the Xb360.  So I understand completely where your coming from with the mouse and keyboard.  It defently still has an its advantages.  An in esence.  Again were at the point.  That it is the system in place that needs adjusted.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

I have a unique idea. What if consoles got rails just as an exclusive ? If a majority of PC players hate rails, and a majority of console players love rails, would it not make sense to just have rails on consoles ?

[CandyDragon]

6 hours ago, (XB1)CFE Discord said:

I have a unique idea. What if consoles got rails just as an exclusive ? If a majority of PC players hate rails, and a majority of console players love rails, would it not make sense to just have rails on consoles ?

Likely not because it basically forces them to have to keep track of two different platforms for updates and balance changes moreso than they do now.

The only real thought about it is that they just have a darksector pvp node per planet, have it tied to no PVE node control, and just let clans and alliances duke it out for the prestige of owning the planet for the day or whatever.  Have the number of planets controlled tied to some kind of system for the clans, allowing them to get some sort of way of displaying their victories in the dojos associated with it. 

Edited March 30, 2016 by Nariala

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

6 minutes ago, Nariala said:

Likely not because it basically forces them to have to keep track of two different platforms for updates and balance changes moreso than they do now.

The only real thought about it is that they just have a darksector pvp node per planet, have it tied to no PVE node control, and just let clans and alliances duke it out for the prestige of owning the planet for the day or whatever.  Have the number of planets controlled tied to some kind of system for the clans, allowing them to get some sort of way of displaying their victories in the dojos associated with it. 

If the clan loses the node at the end of the day anyway, than what is the point of conquering ?

[CandyDragon]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)CFE Discord said:

If the clan loses the node at the end of the day anyway, than what is the point of conquering ?

It was only a thought, Ideally you'd have longer than a day. But if it's too long then you can't consistently play the mode that everyone wants to fight for. Maybe rotate out a few nodes every 3 days and let the winner keep their alliance badge there.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

20 hours ago, Nariala said:

It was only a thought, Ideally you'd have longer than a day. But if it's too long then you can't consistently play the mode that everyone wants to fight for. Maybe rotate out a few nodes every 3 days and let the winner keep their alliance badge there.

I don't think thatd work very well. If there were only a few nodes it would make the monopolization a bigger problem than what it was on some platforms.

[(XBOX)BroadsideMobsta]

If they want pve involved more than what they originally were maybe an idea would be to have it still be very similar to what dark sector conflicts were originally. Except this time make it have a point system involved. You still have to destroy/defend the core and level up throughout each match, but make it so it takes a certain amount of points to hack the consoles and attack the core. For example lets say it takes 50 points to hack the first consoles. Make it so specter kills are 1 point, then add mini bosses where you can kill them and it counts as 5 points, and tenno kills count as 7 points. After the first console is hacked it takes another 50 points to hack the next console, and it continues from there until you get enough points to destroy the core. The defending team would have to reach a specific amount of points to win that battle and stop the attacking side from destroying the core. This is an idea that would keep both the pve and pvp community happy since you could win by doing either pve or pvp.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

24 minutes ago, (XB1)BroadsideMobste said:

If they want pve involved more than what they originally were maybe an idea would be to have it still be very similar to what dark sector conflicts were originally. Except this time make it have a point system involved. You still have to destroy/defend the core and level up throughout each match, but make it so it takes a certain amount of points to hack the consoles and attack the core. For example lets say it takes 50 points to hack the first consoles. Make it so specter kills are 1 point, then add mini bosses where you can kill them and it counts as 5 points, and tenno kills count as 7 points. After the first console is hacked it takes another 50 points to hack the next console, and it continues from there until you get enough points to destroy the core. The defending team would have to reach a specific amount of points to win that battle and stop the attacking side from destroying the core. This is an idea that would keep both the pve and pvp community happy since you could win by doing either pve or pvp.

I'm willing to accept this.

[(XBOX)Y0DA PRiME]

Rails was pvp why change something that works for the longest. If u want to make it 50/50 fine i will except that but take pvp out of it u will lose alot of vets that have stop playing this game because rails and you will lose more 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

23 hours ago, (XB1)CFE CALiPRIME said:

Rails was pvp why change something that works for the longest. If u want to make it 50/50 fine i will except that but take pvp out of it u will lose alot of vets that have stop playing this game because rails and you will lose more 

We lost a good 40% of the playerbase on xbox one after rails were taken out the first time. If they make them PvE only we may lose even more. The "Rails are broken XDXD" meme will get even worse imo as It would be significantly easier for the top PvE clans to take nodes. I might just stay to taste the tears of salt if they come back as PvE only.

[Letter13]

47 minutes ago, (XB1)CFE Discord said:

We lost a good 40% of the playerbase on xbox one after rails were taken out

Would love to see where you're getting those numbers, assuming you aren't just pulling a random number out of thin air (which is really what that claim seems like).

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

5 hours ago, Letter13 said:

Would love to see where you're getting those numbers, assuming you aren't just pulling a random number out of thin air (which is really what that claim seems like).

You get 1 kill in pve at the beginning of the week and wait til the end of the week to check the leaderboards. We dropped from about 150k to 120k then right before 17.0 in september we hit a low of 70k. Thats just from the pve leaderboards, not counting anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal evidence is a bit sketchy but anyone can go see the XB1 recruitment forum and look at the clans that are no longer active that were active during rails.

Off the top of my head:

Raindogs < o R3b1rth o >, Alpha Centauri < Genral Brasil >, Watermelon <CamFred> (albeit they still were top 5 for a while) , NxGen < TES CakeWalk II >, Scrubs Next Door <Gen James Bond> (I hear they are coming back, coincidence they came back as rails were announced ? I think not) SoHi < HitSquadDriver>, Strawberry Puppy Kisses <Ill check when I get off work> (RIP), Resumption <Daft Tom>, Aim To Kill <ATK Blackdawn> , Synthetik Dread <Synthetik Dread> (Coming back because rails were announced), DeadLock <DarkHades3>, StarFleet <same situation as puppy kisses> , Harbingers < NSA Hanoth>, Knights Of Honor <gmh978>, Zombie Strippers <Ill check>, All Gunz Blazin <BHL Rab>, Legion of The Cosmos < Xenaru >, Angels Sanguine <MMA Punk>, THE SAVAGE SQUAD <Ill check> (RIP), Hidden Shadow Village < Oricheemaru>, Muay Jitsu <Ill check> (I think), Primed Chamber <LengManv4>.

This isnt counting the innumerable clans that I havent even heard of. These are clans that have conquered rails and are no longer active. 

Most of PC players never played rails on Xbone, so it might be a bit difficult for you guys to grasp. It may not be this way on PC or PS4, but we were very affected by rails leaving. I cant even begin to tell you the number of people I no longer see playing warframe that were OG Arbiters. These were people I would spend thousands of hours with. Plotting our next rail attack, Politicking with enemy warlords, feeling the emotional lows of being disbanded (Damn near cried), then the emotional highs of finally conquering against all odds (Cried tears of joy), getting fat stackz of battlepay, doing calculations on whether we were behind schedule or not, fighting for a right to exist against people who wanted us buried, fighting for the honor of JOEBLOW3800, spending countless hours writing down counters to every possible strategy in my note book, feeling suspense as my XBL subscription ran out and I could only watch the numbers go down, chugging 5 hour energy cans like an alcoholic so I could stay up and fight for our Late Night / Early Bird rails, seeing the maddening hype of alliance chat as our rail was about to deploy, taxiing literally the entire alliance to the nodes before a conflict, watching deathsnacks for our rail battle on Gabii as I was in the operating room after I had surgery then feeling wonderful as we finally took back the rail. All of this you will never experience.

Edited April 6, 2016 by (XB1)CFE Discord

[Letter13]

34 minutes ago, (XB1)CFE Discord said:

-snip-

So what you're saying is that you don't actually have data that corroborates your claims of a 40% loss of playerbase, just anecdotal observations. Got it.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

2 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

So what you're saying is that you don't actually have data that corroborates your claims of a 40% loss of playerbase, just anecdotal observations. Got it.

Go message any of their warlords right now and see if they are still active. These were clans that were active up to the end of rails. Ill edit my post with gamertags. 

Edited April 6, 2016 by (XB1)CFE Discord

[Letter13]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)CFE Discord said:

Go message any of their warlords right now and see if they are still active. These were clans that were active up to the end of rails. Ill edit my post with gamertags.

Clans form and disband all the time. People move on from one game to another. When the armistice began the game had been out on XB1 for roughly 7 months--I imagine a lot of players who started playing Warframe got burnt out on it or started playing other games to help get rid of the burnout.

I've been in clans where the warlords have gone AWOL. It happens to large clans as well as small, people submit support tickets or ask what they can do to replace inactive warlords all the time.

Sure, I'll humor the fact that a lot of the PvP oriented clans probably left the game, but I highly, highly doubt that players who focused primarily on PvP and left after the armistice made up 40% of the playerbase. Not to mention there were other games coming out all the time--one notable title that stands out is the House of Wolves expansion for Destiny that launched about a month or so after the armistice started.