Mag rework, good or bad?

[tripletriple]

Mags unfinished rework has been shown and it looks like we are going to have a good warframe on our hands. Thank god it's not another Saryn (don't bother posting your spore builds).

A few concerns of mine.

Pull is a good ability on it's own but, you could add more to it. For example if held down it could start to suck in bullets and enemies for a giant energy drain. It could be the ultimate last defense.  I'm happy with it's current state however, but if someone thing else is done to it I'll be happy about it. Change the augment to pull through walls again. There is no reason not too. 

Magnetize seems really good now, but it's duration based. That is a big no no when it comes to mag. I purpose that it simply has a 30 second duration that is not affected by duration mods. She is a magnetic frame after all. 

Shield polarize I'm a little bit iffy about. The spread seems to balance the fact that the ability will be super powerful now, but please DE, I implore you, DO NOT make it super slow or affected by duration mods. Have it become a much faster molecular prime spread. 

Crush- Should be much quick to cast and jam all the enemies it can in one central area making a giant ball of enemies that teammates can tonkor to death. The cc from them getting up will be great. 

The passive is complete garbage. A passive to pick things up from 2 feet away? Use carrier or walk up to it. Have her passive make enemy bullets repel occasionally and call it a day.

Overall with a bit of work, it's a job well done. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by tripletriple

[RagingGrizzly]

I'm going to hold my tongue/hype for this until I get my hands on it...

[Gurpgork]

1 minute ago, tripletriple said:

Magnetize seems really good now, but it's duration based. That is a big no no when it comes to mag. I purpose that it simply has a 30 second duration that is not affected by duration mods. She is a magnetic frame after all. 

I don't really agree that this is a problem. The ability as it is works really well with 70-100% duration, so you can easily get away with using just one duration mod (if that). Sure, you won't be able to bring every ability to its absolute fullest potential with a single build, but as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing. 

[tripletriple]

3 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

I don't really agree that this is a problem. The ability as it is works really well with 70-100% duration, so you can easily get away with using just one duration mod (if that). Sure, you won't be able to bring every ability to its absolute fullest potential with a single build, but as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing. 

The Developers disagree with you. It was a problem with ember and will continue to be a problem. Having to use every single type of mod is simply bad design. 

That being said. I think you will be right about it not being a big problem. Time will tell. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by tripletriple

[-DM-Nexriot]

I can bet an arm, this reworks its rip for mag, fancy powers but usseles.

[Gurpgork]

Just now, tripletriple said:

The Developers disagree with you. It was a problem with ember and will continue to be a problem. Having to use every single type of mod is simply bad design. 

You don't have to use every type of mod, though. You'll still be able to minimize duration for the sake of ravaging absolutely everything with Shield Polarize (or whatever they change its name to) while still throwing Magnetize out the window. In fact, I think that most people are still going to take that route. The only difference is that now there's a new perspective, because Magnetize is more valuable in squads and builds than Bullet Attractor. 

The drawbacks of Corrupted mods are supposed to be sacrifices. Having Warframes that only need one or two power attributes undermines that greatly. What's the point of having a modding system that allows us to make choices if Warframes have one or two best builds and every other build is crap?

10 minutes ago, -DM-Nexriot said:

I can bet an arm, this reworks its rip for mag, fancy powers but usseles.

You'll be able to make invincible cover for yourself out of an enemy, you'll have a nuke that scales off of (our obscenely powercreeped) weapon damage, while you'll be able to melt armor and still utterly annihilate shielded enemies regardless of their level. I'm honestly thinking she's going to be overtuned like Frost or Excalibur were, because her greatest strength is hardly going to be hurt at all while she's gaining a couple massive upgrades in other aspects of her kit.

[tripletriple]

2 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

What's the point of having a modding system that allows us to make choices if Warframes have one or two best builds and every other build is crap?

 

That is happening already.

[-Temp0-]

3 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

I don't really agree that this is a problem. The ability as it is works really well with 70-100% duration, so you can easily get away with using just one duration mod (if that). Sure, you won't be able to bring every ability to its absolute fullest potential with a single build, but as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing. 

It's not when you forced to use more than 2 abilities at once like they're trying to do it. That's why many people dropped Saryn in the trash can after her rework. Too much energy wasted and too many different mods needed for such an output those frames provide. Well at least Mag is able to keep herself alive with bullet attractor, which can't be said about Saryn.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[GinKenshin]

well, first off, I'd just like to propose a name change to shield polarize, now it affects armor as well, and it already affects shields....so it basically affects the enemies defense, so why not change it to 'Defense Polarize' 

secondly, I'm happy with the rework, they didn't change a whole lot about her but still managed to overhaul the downsides. magnetize is awesome now, though the problem with bullet attractor was never the ability itself, and it was just 'unpopular' due to heavy focus on other abilities, I think it has the same idea as BA but it's made a lot better 

as for crush, I'm surprised they haven't come up with anything for it. what I suggest is what the ability should be doing along...crushing bones. by that I mean it should provide certain disability to the enemies affects, like for example, affected enemies have a X% chance to not use any weapons after crush (due to crush breaking and crushing their arm's bones) and X% for enemies to not be able to move (due to their leg's bone being crushed)....and so on 

you can't crush someone's bones and then they just bounce back after 1 sec, it should have something permanent :/   

[Kaidinah]

3 hours ago, tripletriple said:

The passive is complete garbage. A passive to pick things up from 2 feet away? Use carrier or walk up to it. Have her passive make enemy bullets repel occasionally and call it a day.

I mostly just oppose the passive because that passive should be the normal (even then its too short) for pickups.

[ClinkzEastwood]

4 hours ago, -DM-Nexriot said:

I can bet an arm, this reworks its rip for mag, fancy powers but usseles.

Post pics when you lose.

Saved.

[ClinkzEastwood]

1 hour ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

It's not when you forced to use more than 2 abilities at once like they're trying to do it. That's why many people dropped Saryn in the trash can after her rework. Too much energy wasted and too many different mods needed for such an output those frames provide. Well at least Mag is able to keep herself alive with bullet attractor, which can't be said about Saryn.

L2p.

[SicSlaver]

I hope they change Magnetic procs as well for her rework so that it doesn't just devastate enemy shields by 75%! I hope Shield Polarize won't just devastate enemy shields completely as well! Currently, she's way too overpowered against the corpus, but is terrible against all the other factions. Being able to cast more than one Bullet Attractor/Magnetize is a really good start. Please don't call it Magnetize as it'll become really confusing. Any rework for Mag at the moment is good. I hope Crush will have some form of lingering crowd control effect because, dear lord, all warframes could use CC due to the balance and powercreep DE has made to this game. It would make sense since she's literally crushing enemies into a ball. Why that doesn't have lasting or permanent effect on the enemy, I don't know.

[hukurokuju5]

who knows how the numbers will play out.

but honestly, I'm not holding my breath.  DEsign team is too notorious for wonky numbers and weird design

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

booh, shield polarize should've been buffed to take you directly to the reward screen across all factions, at least that would've been useful! all those fancy buttons, when it could be only one, sheesh... doesn't DE think economically? such disapoint, wow :( ...

[Blazer-X]

Slightly worried about Shield Polarize change... not because I think its bad to balance it (and trust me, I abuse it currently, so I know its a bit too strong against Corpus). The main concern is, the way it clears room right now is that it blows up all the shield at once, which leaves Corpus enemies with only their health, then allowing the shield explosion to hit them for high damage, killing most of them. If it becomes a "spreading out" field ala Nova's MPrime, you'd blow up the shield of the closer enemies first, hitting the slightly further enemies and lowering their shields and reducing the potential damage of subsequent enemies hit. How much this affects the enemies hit and the damage depends on how fast the field comes out.

With all these changes, Shield Polarize might become more of an anti-Void power rather than an anti-Corpus power, given its additional effect on Armor. Overall, too early to really call it one way or another, but I'm pretty sure the days of Shield Polarizing through any Corpus threat is probably gone. Let's hope the new Magnetize and future Crush rework is enough to compensate.

[Brosephelon]

Honestly I'm sorta optimistic for the Mag rework.  In general one button to destroy them all game play is complete S#&$ so I'm fine with shield polarize getting changed.  

So far with the rework.  

Pull is basically unchanged besides having bonus damage from using it with other powers.  Aka her pull is purely being buffed unless they nerf the damage to instead try to force synergy usage which is still possible as they were talking about changing numbers and such.

Bullet Attractor and Shield Polarize swap places so Bullet Attractor is now her 2 and Shield Polarize is now her 3.  This is obviously a cost nerf to Shield Polarize and a cost buff to Bullet Attractor but thats about it for the swap and honestly isn't a big deal.  

Bullet Attractor got buffed signficantly to effectively act almost like a Nyx absorb you cast on an enemy.  It honestly looks like a fun and useful power for solo'ing as Mag or in unorganized random missions of defense, survival, and similar.  

Shield Polarize isn't restricted to corpus anymore (effectively), will reduce/remove armor, will still do lots of damage to hordes of shielded enemies, and will have synergies with bullet attractor by charging up the absorb aspect.  Its main downsides compared to currently in comparison to those buffs is that it has a travel time like Molecular Prime instead of being an instant nuke, as people have mentioned depending on how enemies are grouped this could mean its abilities to one shot entire waves might be reduced if not completely removed with only killing the enemies close by while only damaging enemies further away.  Overall the changes and direction they are talking about with Shield Polarize to me seems great, its still a solid looking "push button to F*** up all the things" button that is no longer strictly limited to being useful against Corpus.  To the people wanting push single button win the game, its likely not going to be their cup of tea but I'm fine with that.

Crush they said was mostly unchanged functionally but that final numbers and relative strength/potential synergies weren't settled on.  Realistically it looks like the power they are going to use to overall balance her kit to keep her from demolishing the universe.  Regardless a worst case scenario from the looks of things will be that for Mag to kill everything she has to press two abilities instead of one, shield polarize to strip shields/armor then crush to finish off anyone that survived.  

 

Overall I felt generally positive about the direction they were taking the rework.  The Bullet Attractor shown on the devstream looked like a really fun/cool ability, shield polarize getting nerfed, while also getting buffed seemed rather fair.  Crush remains to be seen and I was hoping they would do more with it like having all enemies effected by crush be pulled towards the target of crush making it something of a vacuum type effect.  Considering the only time to really use Mag right now is on supershield sorties it looks like a great improvement.  

[AvianBoombox]

13 hours ago, tripletriple said:

Thank god it's not another Saryn (don't bother posting your spore builds).

 

Not to be a jerk or anything, but that phrasing shuts down any potential argument  about saryn, while i know shes not the topic, youre effectively saying that every opinion about her rework being positive is irrelevent because you say so. Not trying to hate on you personally, I dont like shut down on opinions and debates, just wanted to get that out of the way before i yammer on into mags rework.

As things are right now, I've always felt mag was niche, shes a powerhouse against corpus but everything else is lackluster. She was my first Frame and my second frame, my friends helped me rush her prime. I put a lot of my enjoyment of the game in her kit three years ago but i acknowledge her flaws.

As it stands right now i feel utility is more importamt In this game than just raw power. I hope DE feels the same sentiment i do because i DONT want another powerhouse frame, i want a frame that can help control the flow of combat, a frame that has a niche it can fill so if they nerf her damage some, that's okay as long as she gets a stronger utility for squad support.

Whichever way mag goes, she will have a special spot in my arsenal but i dont want another damage boost, i want her to do a role that compliments her idea: being magneto as a warframe, if shield polarize becomes something that can finally hurt grineer and mess with infested ill be satisfied, if she loses damage for utility and debuffing or CC i will be proud of the frame i started with, all i want is for her to have a spot of her own. a role that she can fill in her own way.

We might not share the same ideals of what might make a frame good, fun, or even special. I'll respect your ideals and ideas as long as you respect mine. Just understand that i want mag to be a frame i can take her out of my arsenal and feel like she's going to make a difference, no matter what faction she goes up against. Excalibur and Loki can do that out of the starting frames, why not volt and mag?

[blaes]

14 hours ago, tripletriple said:

The passive is complete garbage. A passive to pick things up from 2 feet away? Use carrier or walk up to it. Have her passive make enemy bullets repel occasionally and call it a day.

i like your crush idea, but i disagree with this.

i would say to keep the vacuum, but make its range affected by the loot radar (thief's wit, animal instinct, loot detector).

we could finally use another sentinel instead of carrier.

[Racter]

Saryn rework 2.0. Neuter her only currently good skill, buff one of her others, leave the last 2 alone. Polarize moving out slowly like Overload is garbage (it's literally like the main reason people want Overload changed lol) and it's interaction with armored enemies is completely useless. Either enemies don't have enough armor to matter (low to mid level) or they have none (high level with CPs). Bullet Attractor (now Magnetize) doesn't block aoe and still requires a target to cast, so wont really be a solid option for defending an area.

Pull and Crush are staying as bad/good as they are currently so no comment on those two.

 

Not at all interested in this tbh. I'll take my 68m instakill (vs Corpus and Corrupted) over the proposed changes any day. They don't honestly seem like they'll improve her desirability against other factions, and will be pretty detrimental to her current role.