Why do nullifiers still exist?

[(PSN)Faustx19]

So,run around,kill everything in no time,to be the weapon of mass destruction is ok,if some enemy can do more as run into your bullets is not ok?Just take em out of the game?Seriously ?? So many mission without that enemy.If its a sortie or higher rank syndikate you schould allready become one with the game and own some frames/Weapons and your own experience .If not,its a team based game.And for those who wanna play solo there are missions without em.Ah, yes , void solo. If the few shots for the bubble or short slidetrough is to much work i guess its a good idea to look for another game.Maybe with god mode , just like you deserve it.And with you i mean all gamers that want the nullityer or other enemis out of the game.I understand for solo players and beginners maybe to change them a bit,to cry so about them and want theme gone is not right in my opinion.At these days many gamers just cry for everything and nothing.

[Bachuuu]

I hate them less now, but I hate them still. 

There needs to be a counter to them, like when explosions could kill them from the outside or Sonicor, something...

[MeitGrigori]

This topic is a bit laughable to me, specially since I run around with Rakta Cernos and see no issue with them when solo running T4 Defense and Survival missions. I simply run with my Despair as a bubble popper and bam, back to my bow to violate everything.

[Rambit23Z]

6 hours ago, Bachuuu said:

I hate them less now, but I hate them still. 

There needs to be a counter to them, like when explosions could kill them from the outside or Sonicor, something...

Because the Tonkor definitely needs yet another advantage over almost all the guns in the game.

/Sarcasm

[Quasaron]

There is zero doubt that Nullifiers are not well balanced as highlighted by Ikusias, these problems are excentuated when they stack up multiple bubbles or as the game scales up in level. Nullifier could practically be broken down into 3 aura/bubble units and still be threatening: capping ranged weapon damage and forcing 9 or X hits, preventing warframe damage in an area, shutting down any warframe abilities/buffs on contact. At least if they were split, there could be more approaches for each.

/////

My take on balancing current nullifiers whilst still maintaining a certain skill cap is make four/six floating targets that sit on the surface of their bubble that can be shot to disable the shield with precision weapons or skills.

Lets say, shoot any of the two floating targets disables the shield for 5sec. These can be the size of a nullifier head, and cannot be hit with AOE skills/weapons like tonkor. Precision skills such as Ash's shuriken would still work. The target's health would scale with mob lvl so that you can't spray randomly and one-hit them (unless you have a strong weapon comparitive to their lvl, in which case you should feel powerful), but still be reasonable for e.g. a sniper to one-shot each of them, then switch to main target. If still not rewarding enough for precision, make disabling these 'generator' targets cause an explosion. Punch through should also allow you to hit targets that are protected by stacked bubbles.

So what you have now is preserving melee's enter and stab method, high rate of fire weapons approach, but means for precision to bypass their indomintable disabilities.Though given the amount of work in this, they're better off fixing how this game scales perhaps.

/////

[Kaidinah]

Nullifiers seriously need to be looked at again. I basically can't use fun stuff against higher level corpus. Can't Inaros. Can't Chroma. Why even Ivara?

[GrimAtrament]

9 hours ago, Kaidinah said:

Nullifiers seriously need to be looked at again. I basically can't use fun stuff against higher level corpus. Can't Inaros. Can't Chroma. Why even Ivara?

if you cant fight high level corpus with inaros then idk what your doing wrong  iv never had problem with high level corpus with Inaros 

and if your fighting corpus with chroma and dying a lot then your not using lifestrike chroma and melee are pritty much the best way to use chroma as vex armor requires you to take damage.i find nulifiers dont have much hp compared to other coprus units also unless your using effigy you almost always have max energy as chroma (if your using rage mod) that  and using high duration mods like primed continuity and constitution both combined  your vex armor and ward should allways be up unless entering a nulifier bubble then its a simple matter of killing the nulifier with melee or a gun. i never use chroma with a sniper rifle/bows hes not really a frame with a kit suited for it frames i use with snipers/bows are mesa/ivara/banshee.

after killing the nulifier you can simply turn on vex armor and ward again. also if case your wondering i run a electric chroma primarily.

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by hazerddex

[Troll_Logic]

9 hours ago, Kaidinah said:

Nullifiers seriously need to be looked at again. I basically can't use fun stuff against higher level corpus. Can't Inaros. Can't Chroma. Why even Ivara?

Exactly.  If I can't use every warframe and every weapon equally effective then it's unfair and ban it!

Come on man.

[EvilChaosKnight]

2 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

Exactly.  If I can't use every warframe and every weapon equally effective then it's unfair and ban it!

Come on man.

When I cannot use every weapon equally it's fine. Mk1 Braton shouldn't really shine everywhere.

When I cannot use every weapon TYPE equally, then we have a problem. And when said types are the weapons which already require extra effort/skill to be effective (bow/sniper/not-Tonkor lawnchairs), we get topics like this.

Actually, why is Nullicancer blocking my guns again? Even AOE explosions! Something which even damn WALLS don't do in game.

Edited April 14, 2016 by EvilChaosKnight

[S3EK3R]

2 hours ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Actually, why is Nullicancer blocking my guns again? Even AOE explosions! Something which even damn WALLS don't do in game.

Core problem. Disable my abilities? Fine. Spam Nullfiers more than standard units? Fine.

BUT let me shoot you down without needlessly risking exposure just so you are less annoying.

A 200° Directional shield which blocks incoming abilities, disables abilities on contact and can take some firepower are better than an invincibility bubble with shield drones, tech and bursas inside.

[akira_him]

7 hours ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

When I cannot use every weapon equally it's fine. Mk1 Braton shouldn't really shine everywhere.

When I cannot use every weapon TYPE equally, then we have a problem. And when said types are the weapons which already require extra effort/skill to be effective (bow/sniper/not-Tonkor lawnchairs), we get topics like this.

Actually, why is Nullicancer blocking my guns again? Even AOE explosions! Something which even damn WALLS don't do in game.

meanwhile snow globe and electric shield still cannot block missle from grinneer

[Troll_Logic]

10 hours ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Actually, why is Nullicancer blocking my guns again? Even AOE explosions! Something which even damn WALLS don't do in game.

I'll refer you to the invention of the nullifier bubble

 

'Ok, so let's say your corpus scientist. You've invented a backpack that projects a bubble that nullifies all the hated warframe abilities.  For the first time, the Corpus have a way to counteract the warframes' magic.

So you pack up your invention and you fly to see Alad V.  You show him your tech and he loves it.  You mention "You know what I can also add?  I can add a forcefield to the backpack so that the wearer and the corpus around him will be protected."

Alad V replies "Nah.  You know just the nullifier will be enough.  I don't think any warframe will be smart enough to shoot the guy wearing the backpack."'

 

What sense does that make?  Adding a forcefield to protect the wearer makes perfect sense.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Troll_Logic

[CapedBaldy]

32 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

I'll refer you to the invention of the nullifier bubble

 

'Ok, so let's say your corpus scientist. You've invented a backpack that projects a bubble that nullifies all the hated warframe abilities.  For the first time, the Corpus have a way to counteract the warframes' magic.

So you pack up your invention and you fly to see Alad V.  You show him your tech and he loves it.  You mention "You know what I can also add?  I can add a forcefield to the backpack so that the wearer and the corpus around him will be protected."

Alad V replies "Nah.  You know just the nullifier will be enough.  I don't think any warframe will be smart enough to shoot the guy wearing the backpack."'

 

What sense does that make?  Adding a forcefield to protect the wearer makes perfect sense.

I'd add it to every corpus unit lol

[EvilChaosKnight]

29 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

I'll refer you to the invention of the nullifier bubble

 

'Ok, so let's say your corpus scientist. You've invented a backpack that projects a bubble that nullifies all the hated warframe abilities.  For the first time, the Corpus have a way to counteract the warframes' magic.

So you pack up your invention and you fly to see Alad V.  You show him your tech and he loves it.  You mention "You know what I can also add?  I can add a forcefield to the backpack so that the wearer and the corpus around him will be protected."

Alad V replies "Nah.  You know just the nullifier will be enough.  I don't think any warframe will be smart enough to shoot the guy wearing the backpack."'

 

What sense does that make?  Adding a forcefield to protect the wearer makes perfect sense.

Yes, because anti-ability field has exactly the same or similar properties to a kinetic force field so adding that just makes sense! *Looks at Combas* Oh wait.

It's like saying that missile lock on jammer can easily be upgraded to shoot down incoming dumb-fire projectiles. Or that kevlar vest can be changed to also stop toxic gas. That's not how it works.

Unless in your book, supersonic piece of lead or bolt of overheated plasma have similar properties to the energy of the hellish space defying all common logic. Yea, right

And nice dodging of my point about weapon types. It was almost smooth.

Edited April 15, 2016 by EvilChaosKnight

[Troll_Logic]

8 hours ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Yes, because anti-ability field has exactly the same or similar properties to a kinetic force field so adding that just makes sense! *Looks at Combas* Oh wait.

They don't have similar properties.  That's why they're different.  But they are carried by the same person.  That's why I used the word "add."

8 hours ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

And nice dodging of my point about weapon types. It was almost smooth.

I didn't dodge it.  I just didn't think it was worthy of a response.  It was silly.

[Troll_Logic]

17 hours ago, S3EK3R said:

BUT let me shoot you down without needlessly risking exposure just so you are less annoying.

I think people are using the word "annoying" because they don't want to use "difficult" so they can pretend they're a better player.

I've got no problem admitting nullifiers are a hassle.  I've got no problem admitting overlapping nullifiers with dozens of protect corpus are extremely deadly and a challenge.

I also have no problem in admitting that if the tenno had such an ability, everyone that is complaining about it right now would spam the dog poop out of it in missions.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Troll_Logic

[Second_Measure]

On 13.4.2016 at 1:46 AM, Bachuuu said:

I hate them less now, but I hate them still. 

There needs to be a counter to them, like when explosions could kill them from the outside or Sonicor, something...

It used to do that, but not anymore.

Because you're not allowed to have fun killing them!

(Still pops Arctic Eximus even with their Globe up though.)

 

Edited April 15, 2016 by Second_Measure

[S3EK3R]

2 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

I think people are using the word "annoying" because they don't want to use "difficult" so they can pretend they're a better player.

I've got no problem admitting nullifiers are a hassle.  I've got no problem admitting overlapping nullifiers with dozens of protect corpus are extremely deadly and a challenge.

I also have no problem in admitting that if the tenno had such an ability, everyone that is complaining about it right now would spam the dog poop out of it in missions.

I use annoying, because I CAN kill them, not exactly hard, but annoying. It's not an enemy type that's a fun challenge for the player. It doesn't make you think or shake up the gameplay in any form. It's just there to simply block you. Nothing more. It's just a block.

Bursas, Combas and Scarambuses are hard. But I love them. Why? They provide a fun way to engage the players. It's fun to fight against them, because they are unique.

Nullifiers are cheap ways to block ability spam, that should've been done differently. An ability block unit itself is a good idea, but a bubble that stops EVERY single method of attack is annoying. I have no ways to bypass them, no ways to counter them. (By counter I do not mean BULLETHOSE IT!!!. I mean a fun or unique way).

[Troll_Logic]

35 minutes ago, S3EK3R said:

Nullifiers are cheap ways to block ability spam, that should've been done differently. An ability block unit itself is a good idea, but a bubble that stops EVERY single method of attack is annoying. I have no ways to bypass them, no ways to counter them. (By counter I do not mean BULLETHOSE IT!!!. I mean a fun or unique way).

So how would you block ability spam?

The bubble doesn't stop melee.

[S3EK3R]

1 hour ago, Troll_Logic said:

So how would you block ability spam?

The bubble doesn't stop melee.

Like I said previously. Maybe a directional shield that let's high-velocity bullets and projectiles pass trough. But It's not my job to think up ways to block ability spam and make it fun. I'm not a dev.

Doesn't block melee? So now I can throw my Nikana at them and it will pass trough? Wow. Oh, you meant get inside and do the thing we argued that we don't want to do? Because it isn't fun and engaging? We're not asking for a damned miracle here. Just think up a better way to prevent the oh so bad ability spam instead of preventing EVERY damage in an AOE.

 

Or, at first try, maybe lower their spawn rate? Because there's a Nullifier for every 3rd corpus unit? They're common. Nullifier stack isn't fun. Or if they want to keep the spawn rate then just lower their range. Seriously. Their shield takes up two housing blocks.

[Bibliothekar]

1 hour ago, Troll_Logic said:

So how would you block ability spam?

Comba/Scrambus can block ability spam without being unfair cheaters. My biggest gripe about Nullifiers is probably that they can snipe you all across the tile and there's nothing you can do except charge at them and hope that you don't get killed on the way. Not to forget:

7 minutes ago, S3EK3R said:

Or, at first try, maybe lower their spawn rate? Because there's a Nullifier for every 3rd corpus unit? They're common.

This becomes especially bad in Sorties, when Nullifiers can OHK you and Techs mow you down while still spooling up. When we had the Survival a few days back, my team ended up sitting somewhere high and taking turns at dying while activating the life support. With a dozen Nullifiers (and just as many Techs) running around below us and shielding each other, going melee wasn't an option any more. You touched the ground and you were dead.

[DeccanTraps]

1 hour ago, Troll_Logic said:

So how would you block ability spam?

The bubble doesn't stop melee.

My preferred solution to ability spam is 3 steps that must be taken together.
1: Re-balance all war-frames, all powers so there's nothing so potent it needs to be taken away!
2: rebalance enemies and scaling that require hard CC and other game breakers to survive at the games peak.
3: Do away with the reductive difficulty that does nothing but take away game-play features we have worked to earn.

[EvilChaosKnight]

4 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

They don't have similar properties.  That's why they're different.  But they are carried by the same person.  That's why I used the word "add."

Yea sure, it's so easy to just "add" a field of properties completely unseen in the game ever before. You are not just grasping at straws with pointless RP-like stuff at this point. You are pulling those straws straight out of your a$$

Allow me to present you somewhat more... plausible vision on that very same invention process.

14 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

So you pack up your invention and you fly to see Alad V.  You show him your tech and he loves it.  You mention "You know what I can also add? I can add a shield like ones children talk about when they play their "power battles"! Like immune to everything! I've just invented it in my shack when I was bored." a forcefield to the backpack so that the wearer and the corpus around him will be protected."

Alad V replies "Nah.  You know just the nullifier will be enough.  I don't think any warframe will be smart enough to shoot the guy wearing the backpack."' "Wow it makes my mutalist units and controlling Warframes with a collar toss look plausible."

There. Couldn't do it on my phone. Kept you waiting, huh? :P

4 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

I didn't dodge it.  I just didn't think it was worthy of a response.  It was silly. "Oh no! I am being proven wrong with a logical argument. Best ignore it and call it silly if caught."

There, FIFY.

[Bibliothekar]

25 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

You are not just grasping at straws with pointless RP-like stuff at this point. You are pulling those straws straight out of your a$$

Eh, he's just living up to his username. Might be best to just ignore him.

[Troll_Logic]

3 hours ago, S3EK3R said:

Like I said previously. Maybe a directional shield that let's high-velocity bullets and projectiles pass trough. But It's not my job to think up ways to block ability spam and make it fun. I'm not a dev.

So what happens when a tenno is on the other side of him?

3 hours ago, S3EK3R said:

Doesn't block melee? So now I can throw my Nikana at them and it will pass trough? Wow. Oh, you meant get inside and do the thing we argued that we don't want to do? Because it isn't fun and engaging? We're not asking for a damned miracle here. Just think up a better way to prevent the oh so bad ability spam instead of preventing EVERY damage in an AOE.

Can you throw your nikana with a bubble being there?  I don't know where you got the "we" thing, but I think it's a blast running at the nullifier, sliding in, killing the guy, then casting something.  I think it's a blast.