Why do nullifiers still exist?

[Ozamchist]

Actually hydroids 1 impacts the outside of the nullifiers bubble and damages it, always pops it too in my experience. This could be a bug but it works. (Not that anyone likes hydroid outside of a few people like myself)

There's a whole slew of ways to counter them, but if I were to list them here I would be painted as some sort of "condescending, veteran, try hard, cheese lord".

[Troll_Logic]

11 hours ago, Lanieu said:

Corpus already have their personal shields.

How doesn't it make sense to combine them?

11 hours ago, Lanieu said:

And yes, this has been an issue for too long now. Two bow shots, two sniper shots, two heavy weapons should be able to take the bubble down.

That sounds arbitrary and like an incredibly weak shield.

[IceColdHawk]

53 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

How doesn't it make sense to combine them?

How doesn't it make sense to give it to bosses? How doesn't it make sense to give it to every unit? How doesn't it make sense to invent a new shield that instantly takes away all our energy?.....OH WAIT, we had that not long ago...and it got removed because it was freaking broken. This is a game, not real life. Game must be fun. You could say why should the army not use a better shield. But not programmed enemies that should serve to make our time worth playing. Nullifiers are, as they currently stand, exactly the opposite.

Just for s and giggles: How does it make sense to have dual cestra have a magazine of 100 when the single one has a magazine of 60?

Stop using logic as an argument in warframe, it doesn't work.

[CrazyCatLad]

1 hour ago, Troll_Logic said:

How doesn't it make sense to combine them?

That sounds arbitrary and like an incredibly weak shield.

Because Nullifiers are a lazy, boring and dumb response to imbalance and powercreep DE has bestowed upon us.

 

Sorry, meant to say 2 charged Bow shots. I shouldn't have to waste 5+ arrows to diminish that shield just so I can resume Parising enemies.

[Troll_Logic]

1 hour ago, IceColdHawk said:

Just for s and giggles: How does it make sense to have dual cestra have a magazine of 100 when the single one has a magazine of 60?

Stop using logic as an argument in warframe, it doesn't work.

1 weapon has a magazine of 60.  Two have a magazine of 50 each.

Logic makes perfect sense if it's applied within the warframe universe.

[Troll_Logic]

21 minutes ago, Lanieu said:

Because Nullifiers are a lazy, boring and dumb response to imbalance and powercreep DE has bestowed upon us.

 

Sorry, meant to say 2 charged Bow shots. I shouldn't have to waste 5+ arrows to diminish that shield just so I can resume Parising enemies.

I don't think they are.  I think they make perfect sense.  Warframes have magic.  It makes perfect sense that the enemies of the warframes would create something that nullifies that magic.

That's arbitrary about the bow.  Why should it be only two shots?  Because you find nullifiers annoying with a bow?  I agree 100% that bows are fun.  I also think that bows are a niche weapon and don't necessarily apply to every situation as well as other weapons.  I'm guessing that you want the two shot nullifier field takedown because one shot sounds too weak and three is too annoying.

[aerosoul1337]

What bothers me most:

Shotguns/Bows/Sniper/Launchers are not welcome!

It takes too many shot to destroy the bubbles.

So it's a variant of "assault rifle only" condition to me.

In higher level, nully shows up frequently and they can 1 shot some warframes easily, slide melee is not safe beyond certain level.

[CrazyCatLad]

9 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

I don't think they are.  I think they make perfect sense.  Warframes have magic.  It makes perfect sense that the enemies of the warframes would create something that nullifies that magic.

That's arbitrary about the bow.  Why should it be only two shots?  Because you find nullifiers annoying with a bow?  I agree 100% that bows are fun.  I also think that bows are a niche weapon and don't necessarily apply to every situation as well as other weapons.  I'm guessing that you want the two shot nullifier field takedown because one shot sounds too weak and three is too annoying.

Oh boy...we're just going to chalk your inability to grasp this up to you living up to your name.

Picture this: Multiple nullifers, bow only Excavation Sortie. Ha, have fun with your artificial difficulty!

Or this: Two nullifiers with a bubble that somehow stops 'magic' and booolets and they're covering ten people. Which is fine if the nullifier bubbles didn't stop bullets. I like how the Nul Combas are. Nullifiers should just emit an aura with its radius defined on the ground/walls - not an obnoxious dome. Bullets should go through even if slightly mitigated. Give the Nullifiers an arcane shield (a literal shield) and a gun that mitigates frontal damage like a Shield Lancer or Bursa but not obnoxiously massive.  Endless options to make Nullifiers more interesting.  I could probably list 5 more options if you'd like.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Lanieu

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

On 3/25/2016 at 7:18 AM, Hemmo67 said:

however they deal insane damage don't u agree? x)

Yeah, but it's literally all avoidable with good reflexes, and I can one-shot head-shot them with my dread until utterly insane levels.  Plus they look like badasses while jerking me around, so I feel okay when they violate me, because they deserved to, unlike certain enemies who float around in massive sniper-invulnerable soap bubbles while spamming lanka shots at me.

[HUNDarkTemplar]

They should exist and get buffed or more op enemies should be added. With specific tactics people can handle level 150+ enemies, which shouldnt be. 

[Hemmo67]

9 minutes ago, HUNDarkTemplar said:

They should exist and get buffed or more op enemies should be added. With specific tactics people can handle level 150+ enemies, which shouldnt be. 

that

gives this man a cookie

we must stop with the layout x x x and x for surival x x x and x for defense ect.. and u all know what those x'es mean *cough* trinity, ash, frost, nova...

[WiFiBuddha]

Some people have argued in favor of the bubble not blocking bullets. Have you thought about what kind of weapons long time players have at their disposal? If the bubble wasnt solid, experienced players would just pop their heads from a distance within seconds. Then the ability spam would take care of the rest and the game practically plays itself. Youd just cc anyone regardless of level to death. Nullifiers have a place in this game. "Git gud" also applies.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

On 3/26/2016 at 1:12 PM, Maicael said:

I suppose you'd like to see Nullifiers as effective at defense as Shield Lancers? Just turn Corpus into Grineer that only need Toxin damage to be trivialized instead of x4 Corrosive Projection.

Sure, their spawns could be toned down at high levels and replaced with having units follow them to both be protected and protect the Nullifier, but their role as a Defensive unit for allies is perfectly valid in terms of combat. Combas/Scrambus keep getting mentioned as balanced versions of a nullifier, but they are merely the patchwork Offensive version that doesn't protect allies and only nullifies a certain set of abilities. That's why they have 1100 base health and 400 Proto-shields versus the Nullifiers 60 health and 150 shields combined with a couple of high-damage AoE and seeking weapons. It's almost like comparing the Liset to an Archwing.

I should probably point out that corpus nullifiers do absolutely nothing to stop high RoF weapons with toxic damage from completely S#&$ting on the entire corpus army as if they were a massive squad of shield lancers.

Did you notice that some of the Scrambus/Comba units offer a significant buff against toxic damage?  I didn't either... until I tried to cheese a corpus sortie with pure toxic dual ichors.  Worked great, and then I suddenly ran into some moas and drones that

Would...

NOT.....

DDIEIEIIII!!!!

They literally took 0 damage.  I figured out that I could slam attack to knock the moas down, and ground finishers turned out to be super effective on them, but those drones?

After finally getting my combo multiplier up to 3 and then 4, I finally pulled them to another room where they suddenly insta-died.

"Well... this is curious... I have no idea what just happened.  Must be a bug."

I continued on into the next room, took an elevator down, at which point the map retraced underneath the rooms I had traveled through before.  I came into a room with a comba, a few nullifiers, a few crewman, and a TON of drones and moas.  I killed the Comba.  I killed the Nullies in seconds.  I killed the crewmen in seconds.... AND THE FREAKING ROBOTS WERE IMMUNE TO DAMAGE.

"WTF?!?!?!...... wait... what's that sound... ANOTHER COMBA/SCRAMBUS on the other side of the wall!"

I went around the corner and killed it, with several of the robots following me... all of which instagibbed in about 1.5 seconds after the Scrambus died... which happened to be directly under the immortal robots in the upper level as well.

Guess what, robots have innate toxic resistance, and certain types of comba/scrambus apparently have an aura that boosts toxic resistance by a complimentary amount, thus complementary amount, for 100% toxic immune corpus robots.

[(XBOX)Snicket002]

On 3/25/2016 at 0:39 PM, Murasakiiro_no_Yugure said:

I seriously wanted to say that Banshee or mag and the other frames that are capable of doing some CC/area knockdown abilities is good on solo-ing high level corpus/void missions...

But guess what? Every time i wanted to bring a banshee with a bow out and do some high level corpus/void missions, Nullifiers just made me change my mind.

Why are they even existed?

Was it to prevent AOE CC ability spam or immortality ability abuse and promotes gunplay? THEN DON'T BLOCK BULLETS! IT IS STRESS INDUCING WHEN YOU ARE USING SLOW FIRE RATE WEAPONS!

or was it to promote sword play? then F**K me, player might lose their combo counter that ensures that they can still can do a considerable damage on the enemies after a long run when they are hitting the bubble using their melee weapons. AND NOT TO MENTION, there is only few frames that are viable for swordplay that can actually soak up some damage and WHICH they need to cast their abilities to prevent them from dying while reaching the enemies with their melee. 

In the end, i think nullifiers should get a rework, like may be changing their ability nullifying bubble into a 10 energy/ sec energy draining bubble that still blocks bullets but doesn't cancel your ability, OR make it remains the same(blocks bullets and prevent ability casting inside the bubble) but won't remove the ability effect that are already cast upon the players, OR make the shield smaller and looks like a 360 degree round barricade that has no rooftop that allows player to shoot the nullifiers directly if they are in the higher position.

AND OF COURSE! IM READY FOR THOSE TOXIC WHITE KNIGHT that will just come here and protect this lazy design saying it is okay and it provides challenge. 

 

 

Why does the sun rise in the east and set in the west and why do nullifiers exist, these are the most important and unanswered questions to life.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

On 3/27/2016 at 5:53 PM, TheBrsrkr said:

Ability and weapon spam needed to be reined in. Nullifiers do exactly that. 

Please, your rational mind is softer than pudding.  Weapon spam is EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO TO KILL NULLIFIERS without having to go in the bubble and get killed (at high levels, obviously, before anyone disingenuously "assumes" I meant anything in the realm of 1-60).

You know what the opposite of weapon spam is?  Sniper weapons.  You have very limited ammo, you have a low rate of fire, you have a small clip and a long reload.  What do you do?  You look around, prioritize enemies tactically to what you can deal with and skillfully and carefully aim your weapon for head-shots, 1 shot, one kill.  This is literally the exact opposite of weapon spam and this is exactly what nullifiers murder even harder than ability use (let's be honest, you can still be zephyr with turbulence/mesa with shatter shield/rhino with iron skin/frost with snow globe.  Nullifiers don't nullify all abilities, merely damage-dealing, CCing, and melee-based ones.  You certainly can't bring a nullifier shield down in a reasonable amount of ammo with a sniper weapon, period, let alone time).

[Viedra_Lavinova]

Nullifiers were a bandaid fix to Damage/CC AoE spam. As there are very few powers like that anymore, albeit Bladestorm, Radial Javelin, and Divine Spear for example, they should just be replaced by the combas/ scrambulas and Arctic Eximus. They have outlived their usefulness other than just enemy fodder and being annoying. Since warframe has grown/ evolved enough, I think it's time to remove them, or make them an ultra rare enemy. While at the time they were a good idea, now they just seem like an annoying guest overstaying their welcome.

If anything, they should be changed to have the enemies inside it immune to abilities, but arctic eximus can already kinda do that.

And while I'm at it for a slight off topic note, parasitic eximus are in the same boat as nullifiers. Both trying to combat ability spam in different ways, and both being bandaid fixes to  major problems, Enemy Scaling and Energy System/ Abilities for example.

[CrazyCatLad]

3 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

I don't need to "Picture this."  I already mentioned a worse scenario that I've seen https://forums.warframe.com/topic/630101-why-are-nullifiers-still-exist/?page=5#comment-7060672

No idea why you're taking this so personally.  Bows are fantastic weapons.  But don't be upset because they aren't as effective as every other weapon in every situation.  You want them changed for whatever reasons.  I think they're fine the way they are because of the added difficulty.

We just simply disagree.  I'm fine with that.  Why are you so bent out of shape about someone disagreeing with you about something that doesn't matter and that neither of us can do anything about?

Not bent out of shape.

Nullifiers don't add difficulty. They add annoyance and inconvenience and are an artificial bandaid.  Whenever I see a Nullifier I have to rationalize "Oh, I guess the technology is too expensive for the rich Corpus to give to everyone." Or "Why don't they just coat their ship's interior/exterior with those shields?"

 

 Why not have Nullifier door traps instead of laser traps? Oh no, what did I just say?  Forget that! I love cheese but that not kind.

 

Why do I still take damage with full shields but my bullets can go through Nully shields?

 

Why are there no infested Nullifiers/Nul Combas?

 

Grineer haven't reversed engineered this yet?

 

'K, I'm done.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Lanieu

[Futurehero]

I have 0 idea why this thread is allowed to continue. Nullifiers have been in the game for a long time and DE seems to think they're ok.

They have counter play, anyway you slice it.  They're annoying to you , because they're one of the FEW enemies you can't 1 shot with your 6 forma tonkor, which is 100% intended. They counter slow firing weapons. There are enemies in this game that counter fast firing weapons like sentients ( slow firing weapons can get off more damage before their damage reduction kicks in, and so, will deal with less types of damage being reduced).  

They only block powers within a limited area, which is VERY clearly defined . They don't "take away all your powers". 

Ultimately, if you don't like playing versus them ,don't play the missions they appear in. Nobody is forcing you to deal with nullifiers. Nobody is forcing you to deal with level 150 nullifiers.  Simple as that.  They are few enemies that offer up an interesting challenge that makes you adopt different tactics. Some people actually like challenge , don't remove the little that is left. 

[Zookes]

1 hour ago, Futurehero said:

I have 0 idea why this thread is allowed to continue. Nullifiers have been in the game for a long time and DE seems to think they're ok.

They have counter play, anyway you slice it.  They're annoying to you , because they're one of the FEW enemies you can't 1 shot with your 6 forma tonkor, which is 100% intended. They counter slow firing weapons. There are enemies in this game that counter fast firing weapons like sentients ( slow firing weapons can get off more damage before their damage reduction kicks in, and so, will deal with less types of damage being reduced).  

They only block powers within a limited area, which is VERY clearly defined . They don't "take away all your powers". 

Ultimately, if you don't like playing versus them ,don't play the missions they appear in. Nobody is forcing you to deal with nullifiers. Nobody is forcing you to deal with level 150 nullifiers.  Simple as that.  They are few enemies that offer up an interesting challenge that makes you adopt different tactics. Some people actually like challenge , don't remove the little that is left. 

Your post says "don't play Corpus missions" and "You don't know what fun is, stop complaining".
Could you be any more pretentious?

If I want to win a Corpus sortie, I roll Mirage with a Simulor. Nullifier threat -> 0%.
If I go with anything else, I'm relying on another player to come in with a Mirage / Simulor combo and do the winning for me.

That's not fun.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Zookes
grammar

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, Futurehero said:

I have 0 idea why this thread is allowed to continue. Nullifiers have been in the game for a long time and DE seems to think they're ok.

They have counter play, anyway you slice it.  They're annoying to you , because they're one of the FEW enemies you can't 1 shot with your 6 forma tonkor, which is 100% intended. They counter slow firing weapons. There are enemies in this game that counter fast firing weapons like sentients ( slow firing weapons can get off more damage before their damage reduction kicks in, and so, will deal with less types of damage being reduced).  

They only block powers within a limited area, which is VERY clearly defined . They don't "take away all your powers". 

Ultimately, if you don't like playing versus them ,don't play the missions they appear in. Nobody is forcing you to deal with nullifiers. Nobody is forcing you to deal with level 150 nullifiers.  Simple as that.  They are few enemies that offer up an interesting challenge that makes you adopt different tactics. Some people actually like challenge , don't remove the little that is left. 

Are you serious?

Nullifiers have been in the game a year. You know what else has been in the game almost as long as that? Juggernaut. You know what just got changed? C'mon... guess...

Players are allowed to do whatever they damn well want in a game within it's programed limitations. If it's programed; it's free game. It's the Dev's responsibility to make a best attempt that these options are fair and enjoyable.

You cannot avoid Nullifiers if you play the content that's presented to you, namely the Void. Unlike the bad comparison you use. Sentients are in 6 of 260 missions in the game. They very much can be avoided since they present no end game goals. I personally have seen maybe 6 total sets. Unlike those 6; I've seen around a thousand Nullifiers and The Void has things in place to also give you incentive to stay till higher level.  ie Key requirements and Leader boards.

"They have counter play, anyway you slice it. "  - Well, we know where you hang out then.

[Troll_Logic]

10 hours ago, Lanieu said:

are an artificial bandaid

Ok, I'll bite.  What's broken?  What are nullifiers supposed to fix?  How would you fix it instead?

No generic answers.  I'm sincerely asking your opinion.  I'll read and consider it no matter if it's 10 words or a huge wall of text.

[Futurehero]

5 hours ago, Zookes said:

Your post says "don't play Corpus missions" and "You don't know what fun is, stop complaining".
Could you be any more pretentious?

If I want to win a Corpus sortie, I roll Mirage with a Simulor. Nullifier threat -> 0%.
If I go with anything else, I'm relying on another player to come in with a Mirage / Simulor combo and do the winning for me.

That's not fun.

Mirage and a simulor is not the only way to deal with them, but hey, you pretty much admitted that there are people that can deal with them just fine, so you're the problem, not the enemies.  Again, this just sounds like "I'm too bad to win at the game and adapt, make the game more easy for MEEEEEEE!!!!!" 

Fun is subjective , some people find challenge fun. You don't. 

 

5 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Are you serious?

Nullifiers have been in the game a year. You know what else has been in the game almost as long as that? Juggernaut. You know what just got changed? C'mon... guess...

Players are allowed to do whatever they damn well want in a game within it's programed limitations. If it's programed; it's free game. It's the Dev's responsibility to make a best attempt that these options are fair and enjoyable.

You cannot avoid Nullifiers if you play the content that's presented to you, namely the Void. Unlike the bad comparison you use. Sentients are in 6 of 260 missions in the game. They very much can be avoided since they present no end game goals. I personally have seen maybe 6 total sets. Unlike those 6; I've seen around a thousand Nullifiers and The Void has things in place to also give you incentive to stay till higher level.  ie Key requirements and Leader boards.

"They have counter play, anyway you slice it. "  - Well, we know where you hang out then.

If you're allowed to do whatever you want in the game, and STILL can't deal with one type of enemy, it's your problem that you don't want to adapt.

So you want to reap the rewards and be on top of the ladder, but are unwilling to actually put in the effort, and instead want the game's balance to mold around you?

 

This thread needs a lock. Nobody here made any convincing arguments except "muh fun" and insults. This just seems like entitled scrub-lord behavior. Make the game revolve around MEEEE , instead of me adapting.  

As mentioned before nullifiers serve a purpose in this game and counter a specific playstyle. They don't need any changes.

Tons of people are dealing with them just fine.  If you can't deal with this one type of enemy, recruit people that can from your clan and clear the other types while they deal with the nullifiers. Or don't play missions where they appear. 

 

[alergiclaprosti]

On 3/24/2016 at 7:02 PM, Murasakiiro_no_Yugure said:

ever heard o' trinity and inaros pocket sand CC + Covert lethality dagger build?

oh .... so it's ok because you're invulnerable!?

They should make the nullifier bubble take out buff on contact, regardless if it was started by that tenno or not.

It use to be like this. If you had Blessing from a Trinity you would have lost it on contact with the bubble.

Let's see you than...

[LightBriite]

To be honest, with the new Corpus enemies such as the Scrambus and Combas, I'd say it's high time to retire the nullifier units and replace them with the scrambus/comba units. I say this because they're a lot more reasonable to deal with in that they're agile as hell, have some pretty strong dmg output, can be tanky at higher levels, and if you let them get too close you lose your Warframe abilities and have to use gun/melee to dispatch them. As for the void, quite simple, just replace Corrupted Nullifiers with Corrupted Combas/Scrambus'. To me, having both Nullifiers, Scrambus', and Combas all in one general area basically keeping me from ensuring survival with my Warframe abilities is just poor balance.  

[LightBriite]

5 hours ago, Futurehero said:

Mirage and a simulor is not the only way to deal with them, but hey, you pretty much admitted that there are people that can deal with them just fine, so you're the problem, not the enemies.  Again, this just sounds like "I'm too bad to win at the game and adapt, make the game more easy for MEEEEEEE!!!!!" 

Fun is subjective , some people find challenge fun. You don't. 

 

If you're allowed to do whatever you want in the game, and STILL can't deal with one type of enemy, it's your problem that you don't want to adapt.

So you want to reap the rewards and be on top of the ladder, but are unwilling to actually put in the effort, and instead want the game's balance to mold around you?

 

This thread needs a lock. Nobody here made any convincing arguments except "muh fun" and insults. This just seems like entitled scrub-lord behavior. Make the game revolve around MEEEE , instead of me adapting.  

As mentioned before nullifiers serve a purpose in this game and counter a specific playstyle. They don't need any changes.

Tons of people are dealing with them just fine.  If you can't deal with this one type of enemy, recruit people that can from your clan and clear the other types while they deal with the nullifiers. Or don't play missions where they appear. 

 

Kinda hard to do when nullifiers is all you'll get when you do a Corpus sortie mission such as defense or survival. As a whole, nullifiers were just a band-aid fix made by DE to counter a specific play style. But due to DE's lack of moderating and paying attention, they've become quite an unnecessary pain for many players. Some are capable of instagibbing you with one shot and with it being hit scan, that kinda of enemy player behavior is just lazy when you don't implement a good counter play to them. Might I also add how these enemies manage remove all your buffs, abilities and debuffs even through walls and floors. DE nerfing Warframe abilities so they don't cheese enemies in other rooms and then not looking at the same thing with some of the enemies is just ridiculous to say the least. 

Edited March 31, 2016 by LightBriite