So Mag Prime has a brain

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

5 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

Do tell me how controlling one infested (out of a massive horde) is more combat efficient than controlling a warframe that can slaughter the horde and then some. It was not a warframe. lore says transference was discovered before warframes were conceptualized by the orokin- and this is clearly the discovery of transference. Otherwise the one scientist would know what was happening and would not have asked what was going on- to which the other guy responds "big fat promotions". There is no other logical explanation for what happened in that codex entry other than them discovering transference.

Why on earth could it only make sense that it acted autonomously? That's literally the one thing that makes NO sense. Every other bit of lore in the entire game points and says warframes have no sentience and cannot move on their own. We were in the tranference room- next to the machinery that makes it possible. Lotus is known to be able to at least interfere with the warframe's systems directly- from who knows HOW big a distance, and was on her way to our ship as we speaked, she could have been right outside our door for all we know and her power to influence the frame could have been hundreds or thousands fold what she did in the tutorial. Hell- even ordis might have somehow been able to manage what just happened. Literally any of these make more sense than that thing moving on it's own.

"It doesn't make sense that our warframe protected us for most of the mission and..." What? Were you even paying attention? We were CONTROLLING our frames- MAKING it carry us. We were protecting ourselves. That beam of energy? Yeah that came from OUR hand- not the frame's. Go back and rewatch the video you clearly got some misunderstanding somewhere.

That's a good question. What IS stopping hunhow from turning our frames against us. Answer: us, and the orbiter. The orbiter- according to Ordis' voice lines in game- is hidden at all times in the void. The void is toxic the sentients- it kills them (Second dream lore + crewman entry of simaris' sanctuary). When WE are controlling the frame ourselves- we are passing void energy through it. To try to control a frame that has a Tenno "host" already would probably feed back that energy to the sentient trying to take control. In the moment I'm speaking about, we were not in control of the frame at LEAST until the moment it moved, meaning even if we weren't the ones to move it Lotus had the opportunity to do so instead.

If we can control one infested, What stops us from developing a system to control them all? We would turn an entire enemy faction into a weapon that would easily put both of the grineer and corpus in check. 

 

The fact that the being in the rhino lore went from killing people to a docile rock is what disproves your idea. It has some sentience on its own, but can be controlled. 

The other problem is how a tenno simultaneously fires a beam out of its hand while controlling the warframe. You expect me to believe a tenno has the ability to control two bodies at once? I believe there is a duality with warframes and our tenno. 

 

And there are two holes in your argument. #1 Was Chroma acting out of his own free will? Or being controlled by a sentient?  If he was being controlled by a sentient there's nothing stopping a sentient from controlling our warframes.

#2 Our warframe dropped to the ground, the second we got out of our transference pod. (This is like rhino lore in reverse. Giving the creature control over itself again). The tenno only can do transference while in specialize machinery, either from the void or our ship. We were getting carried by our warframe while exerting our tenno powers. Something that shouldn't be possible

[Stratego89]

1 hour ago, Littlerift said:

 

You can claim that the Warframe was not controlling itself based on the circumstances of the cutscene, but that doesn't really get around the fact that the Warframe's action occurred ten seconds after Hunhow gloating states, regarding the Warframe, 'No self, no sense, no death. Just a metal puppet dangling on Tenno strings. Only the Tenno's death will end your despair.' seems to me to be a writer building up a character's arrogance and ignorance in order to lead to a more cathartic revelation at the end. Hunhow's final mistake is to encourage the Stalker to disregard the Warframe, and it cost him.

Hunhow doesn't control our Warframes because he can't. If he could then he would have just occupied the Stalker when he was on the Moon and killed us himself rather than calling in his 'Fragments'. Further, if Sentients could control Warframes then the Old War wouldn't have ended the moment the Warframes were built. We have no evidence whatsoever that Sentients can control Warframes, and your theories on the matter are pure conjecture.

Or you know rather than it being irony- it's just simply a set up to show hunhow lose because he got cocky and let his guard down. Nothing more, nothing less. That's kinda a possibility too.

You're right- he can't. He also can't do pretty much anything because he is shattered across the galaxy in itty bitty pieces of his former self- which you already know since you apparently paid good enough attention to the quest to point it out here. Even if he DID have the power to do so- there are explanations for everything.

Reasons he would not have occupied Stalker:

• Stalker might not be a warframe when we see him. Maybe he's just a Tenno in a suit. Maybe he's simply using a source of void energy with an actual suit for his powers- meaning there's not really anything for Hunhow to control. They can't control people, only technology.
• The whole reason Hunhow brought stalker into this whole mess is because he and his sentient army are poisoned by the void, meaning he couldn't go there himself, and probably couldn't control anything surrounded by void energies as well.
• If Stalker is a warframe when we see him- that means there is void energy going through the frame to control it- meaning Hunhow cannot touch it for the reasons listed above.

Things suggesting Sentients CAN in fact control warframes- at least to SOME extent.

• At the very start of the game when we first fall out of our pods Lotus DIRECTLY overrides our warframe's systems, giving it a surge of power. One could argue that it is just something they said for the tutorial that they forgot to take out once they made the revelation that Lotus is a Sentient- but considering the amount of detail and precision and accuracy all the Lore has had even since a while before the Second Dream, it's pretty clear that DE is not just throwing lore together at random (at least not anymore). That makes it hard to believe they'd miss such a big detail, not to mention one that is showed to you in the first ten seconds of the game.
• The New Strange. That Chroma- that thing that was not controlled by a Tenno. What was controlling it? Infested? No. Infested do not do coordinated attacks with logic like it did. Grineer? No, it attacked them. Corpus? If they could control frames we'd have armies of them attacking us. That is hardly the first frame they- or the Grineer for that matter- have gotten their hands on. What was the Chroma attacking? Basically anything that was being a threat to the sentient arcane machines. Why would it do that? Obvious- it was under sentient control. This single piece of evidence towards sentients being able to control warframes- at least under certain circumstances- is pretty much undeniable.

[[DE]Artarrwen]

19 hours ago, Xianos_Chaos said:

 

Hhhmmm....I wonder.....

Don't. You're looking way too deep into something as basic as a shader bug.

Lore debates are fun and all but there's literally nothing to discuss here.

[Stratego89]

52 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

If we can control one infested, What stops us from developing a system to control them all? We would turn an entire enemy faction into a weapon that would easily put both of the grineer and corpus in check. 

 

The fact that the being in the rhino lore went from killing people to a docile rock is what disproves your idea. It has some sentience on its own, but can be controlled. 

The other problem is how a tenno simultaneously fires a beam out of its hand while controlling the warframe. You expect me to believe a tenno has the ability to control two bodies at once? I believe there is a duality with warframes and our tenno. 

 

And there are two holes in your argument. #1 Was Chroma acting out of his own free will? Or being controlled by a sentient?  If he was being controlled by a sentient there's nothing stopping a sentient from controlling our warframes.

#2 Our warframe dropped to the ground, the second we got out of our transference pod. (This is like rhino lore in reverse. Giving the creature control over itself again). The tenno only can do transference while in specialize machinery, either from the void or our ship. We were getting carried by our warframe while exerting our tenno powers. Something that shouldn't be possible

What stops us? Uh... simple. Transference is 1:1 control. We did not research, develop, and perfect transference- the brilliant orokin minds of their era with all their unmatchable technology did. We have neither the knowledge, the time, the manpower, nor even the technology in order to change how the system works, and controlling a living creature must be hard enough. Imagine trying to control more than one body at the same time- it would probably drive you insane within seconds because of how extremely disorienting it is. Let alone the feedback of senses. Controlling more than one body at a time just doesn't work. it's not like an RC car- when we are controlling the Warframes, we are the warframes. We feel the pain, we see what is there, we hear what is around it.

Disproves? What? It does nothing but further suggest it. Do you really think any infested would decide to just randomly stop killing things? Do you think any creature on a rampage like that would suddenly decide to stop and look down at it's hands like it's wondering "wait wtf where am I?". No- it was a Tenno taking control of it. Plain and simple.

You are really starting to sound completely ridiculous now mate. "You expect me to believe the Tenno can control two bodies at once?". Uh... their own and the warframe, sure. That warframe was moving very sloppily- you could tell we were hardly controlling it to an extent accurate enough to walk and move us along. Besides- I don't need to prove anything. You can very very clearly see in the quest that we touch the frame- and send a surge of energy through it to control it. You can also very very clearly see that the beam of energy comes out of the Tenno's hand. You are questioning stuff that is straight up displayed to you on a silver platter as facts- but apparently you did not pay any attention to the quest.

 

Chroma was not acting out of it's own free will- Lotus herself said it was an empty shell, with no Tenno controlling it. And as we all know- Warframes do not have sentience.

There is stuff stopping sentients from controlling our warframes. The orbiter carrying our spare frames is hidden in the void- a place sentients cannot enter or else they will DIE because void energy is poison to them. The one we are controlling has the same void energy flowing through it- if they tried to control it the feedback would most likely kill them instantly.

 

You're helping my own point here. The second we stopped using transference on it, the body dropped. Please do take a moment to think to yourself for a second and try to come up with a reasonable explanation as to why it did not instantly go out of control as any infested would (Warframes use infested tissue to make transference possible- this is lore found in that Rhino Prime codex entry we've been talking about). Why did it instead sit there until we touched it and sent our energy into it? Simple: It's has no sentience. It cannot move itself. We obviously do not need the machinery as you claim, because if we did we couldn't then we wouldn't have been making it carry us to our ship. As long as we can send energy into it- which we could very well possibly do from a short distance in a room filled with said energy, aka the part of our ships that this controversial scene happened in- it can be controlled.

 

And last but not least since you are apparently simply going to refuse to believe we were controlling the warframes ourselves- go and find the devstream (either first one or second one) after the Second Dream came out, where they recapped what had happened. DE THEMSELVES said "where you touch your warframe and send your void energies into it to control it and carry yourself back to your ship". DE THEMSELVES said that- any argument you have is invalid because the Devs are always right- it's their game. You cannot argue with what they have said. I didn't need to include ANYTHING but this section- but I felt a need to point out to you just how blatantly obvious it is that you didn't pay attention to the quest.

[Littlerift]

1 hour ago, Stratego89 said:

Or you know rather than it being irony- it's just simply a set up to show hunhow lose because he got cocky and let his guard down. Nothing more, nothing less. That's kinda a possibility too.

You're right- he can't. He also can't do pretty much anything because he is shattered across the galaxy in itty bitty pieces of his former self- which you already know since you apparently paid good enough attention to the quest to point it out here. Even if he DID have the power to do so- there are explanations for everything.

Reasons he would not have occupied Stalker:

• Stalker might not be a warframe when we see him. Maybe he's just a Tenno in a suit. Maybe he's simply using a source of void energy with an actual suit for his powers- meaning there's not really anything for Hunhow to control. They can't control people, only technology.
• The whole reason Hunhow brought stalker into this whole mess is because he and his sentient army are poisoned by the void, meaning he couldn't go there himself, and probably couldn't control anything surrounded by void energies as well.
• If Stalker is a warframe when we see him- that means there is void energy going through the frame to control it- meaning Hunhow cannot touch it for the reasons listed above.

Things suggesting Sentients CAN in fact control warframes- at least to SOME extent.

• At the very start of the game when we first fall out of our pods Lotus DIRECTLY overrides our warframe's systems, giving it a surge of power. One could argue that it is just something they said for the tutorial that they forgot to take out once they made the revelation that Lotus is a Sentient- but considering the amount of detail and precision and accuracy all the Lore has had even since a while before the Second Dream, it's pretty clear that DE is not just throwing lore together at random (at least not anymore). That makes it hard to believe they'd miss such a big detail, not to mention one that is showed to you in the first ten seconds of the game.
• The New Strange. That Chroma- that thing that was not controlled by a Tenno. What was controlling it? Infested? No. Infested do not do coordinated attacks with logic like it did. Grineer? No, it attacked them. Corpus? If they could control frames we'd have armies of them attacking us. That is hardly the first frame they- or the Grineer for that matter- have gotten their hands on. What was the Chroma attacking? Basically anything that was being a threat to the sentient arcane machines. Why would it do that? Obvious- it was under sentient control. This single piece of evidence towards sentients being able to control warframes- at least under certain circumstances- is pretty much undeniable.

 

Possibly, but that seems like rather sloppy storytelling. All of this external knowledge is, of course, commentary, but the fact that the Operator seemed equally surprised at the Warframe's action as the Stalker and Hunhow were I fail to see how the Operator could be controlling the Warframe. Not to mention the fact that after the initial unplugging the Operator required direct contact with the Warframe in order to control it until he/she was plugged into the Transference Pod on the Liset. However, the best evidence, in my view, is the fact that the Operator did not flinch remotely while the Warframe pulled War from its chest. We know that Transference means that the Operator feels everything the Warframe does, both from the fact that the Operators never suspected that they weren't inside the Warframe and direct quotes from the Operator themselves.

All of your points on the Stalker are, yet again, mere conjecture.

Lotus never controls our Warframe, she merely boots it up. We know that strange balls of blue energy can do much the same. If Lotus could control the Warframe then she sure as hell dawdles around throughout the ending of the Second Dream. She could have used the activated the Warframe when the Stalker appeared near the original Transference Pod, or she could have properly activated it when the Stalker had us by the throat in the Liset. 

As for Chroma, we have no idea what was controlling him, although I don't think the Arcane Machines were of Sentient design, they look far more like Orokin designs than what little we know of Sentient architecture. However, you've gone from 'we don't know what was controlling it' straight to 'the Sentients must have done it', something that you pointed out at the start of your post was an impossibility as Hunhow clearly couldn't control a Warframe in his current state, and he's the only active hostile Sentient we know of. So yes, I'd say that your theory is pretty deniable.

Look, your fan fiction is very in-depth and quite well thought out compared to most, but it's all founded on conjecture and speculation. We don't know if the Warframe controlled itself at the climax of the Second Dream; we don't know if Chroma was being controlled at all, let alone what by; we don't know if Sentients can assume control of Warframes; and we don't know what the Warframes truly are. In a world of unknowns the first person who needs to leave the discussion is the person who claims to know it all.

[Stratego89]

1 minute ago, Littlerift said:

 

Possibly, but that seems like rather sloppy storytelling. All of this external knowledge is, of course, commentary, but the fact that the Operator seemed equally surprised at the Warframe's action as the Stalker and Hunhow were I fail to see how the Operator could be controlling the Warframe. Not to mention the fact that after the initial unplugging the Operator required direct contact with the Warframe in order to control it until he/she was plugged into the Transference Pod on the Liset. However, the best evidence, in my view, is the fact that the Operator did not flinch remotely while the Warframe pulled War from its chest. We know that Transference means that the Operator feels everything the Warframe does, both from the fact that the Operators never suspected that they weren't inside the Warframe and direct quotes from the Operator themselves.

All of your points on the Stalker are, yet again, mere conjecture.

Lotus never controls our Warframe, she merely boots it up. We know that strange balls of blue energy can do much the same. If Lotus could control the Warframe then she sure as hell dawdles around throughout the ending of the Second Dream. She could have used the activated the Warframe when the Stalker appeared near the original Transference Pod, or she could have properly activated it when the Stalker had us by the throat in the Liset. 

As for Chroma, we have no idea what was controlling him, although I don't think the Arcane Machines were of Sentient design, they look far more like Orokin designs than what little we know of Sentient architecture. However, you've gone from 'we don't know what was controlling it' straight to 'the Sentients must have done it', something that you pointed out at the start of your post was an impossibility as Hunhow clearly couldn't control a Warframe in his current state, and he's the only active hostile Sentient we know of. So yes, I'd say that your theory is pretty deniable.

Look, your fan fiction is very in-depth and quite well thought out compared to most, but it's all founded on conjecture and speculation. We don't know if the Warframe controlled itself at the climax of the Second Dream; we don't know if Chroma was being controlled at all, let alone what by; we don't know if Sentients can assume control of Warframes; and we don't know what the Warframes truly are. In a world of unknowns the first person who needs to leave the discussion is the person who claims to know it all.

Again- i just listed the Tenno controlling the frame as a possibility. It could have been an extremely weak link that kept the pain from feeding back. Or again it could have been Lotus, who might have not helped previously because she needed to be NEAR to control it- or ORDIS for all we know, though nothing points to him being able to control our suits in any form.

Yes. Stalker stuff was conjecture- but backed at least by a bit of in game quotes.

Lotus- already brought this up 2 sections up.

Arcane machines not sentient? Did you pay any attention during that quest? At all? I'm guessing not.

I'm not putting fan fiction- I'm posting lore FACTS and reasonable logic to DISPROVE another person's fanfiction, not to prove my own. I don't say "this is for sure what happened. I'm giving other alternatives for what could have happened, and stating that warframes are not sentient. There's no ABSOLUTE proof, but EVERY bit of lore -other than one tiny controversial scene people decided PROVES they are when it does NOT- states that they are not.

[Littlerift]

3 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

Again- i just listed the Tenno controlling the frame as a possibility. It could have been an extremely weak link that kept the pain from feeding back. Or again it could have been Lotus, who might have not helped previously because she needed to be NEAR to control it- or ORDIS for all we know, though nothing points to him being able to control our suits in any form.

Yes. Stalker stuff was conjecture- but backed at least by a bit of in game quotes.

Lotus- already brought this up 2 sections up.

Arcane machines not sentient? Did you pay any attention during that quest? At all? I'm guessing not.

I'm not putting fan fiction- I'm posting lore FACTS and reasonable logic to DISPROVE another person's fanfiction, not to prove my own. I don't say "this is for sure what happened. I'm giving other alternatives for what could have happened, and stating that warframes are not sentient. There's no ABSOLUTE proof, but EVERY bit of lore -other than one tiny controversial scene people decided PROVES they are when it does NOT- states that they are not.

 

'It could have been a weak link' is not a fact that you can remotely draw from what was shown, and the same applies to 'It could have been the Lotus'. Here it's especially juicy though because earlier you argued that the Lotus was manipulating our Warframe in Vor's Prize, which happened when she was god knows how far away. And you also claim that the Chroma in A New Strange was being controlled by a Sentient, despite the fact that the only Sentient we know of in the Solar System was still dormant, buried under thousands of tonnes of rock and sea on Uranus when that happened, which at best means he's 1,301,969,708 miles from Chroma at that moment. So how close does a Sentient have to be to a Warframe to control it?

And I don't recall any part in A New Strange where we're told that the device is Sentient, although I may be wrong. The fact that they are all found deep inside Orokin Derelicts, perfectly positioned in the centre of the rooms in which they are found, however, gives me some cause for doubt. Mind pointing me to where it's revealed that they're Sentient in design? Because I'm sure I remember Lotus being confused about the devices, and given that she's a Sentient and would have known what the machine was you'd think she'd have either been very cagey about it or have tried to steer us away from interacting with it in order to protect her true identity.

So yet again, you're not posting 'lore facts', you're posting conjecture. As I said, nobody knows if the Warframes have any sentience, and so stop pretending that you do.

Oh and just a small note, that 'tiny controversial scene' is far more evidence for sentience than you've been able to provide against the notion, and it also happens to be the pivotal moment of Warframe's most important quest from a lore perspective. But sure, a scene in Vor's Prize, a mission designed god knows how long ago, that doesn't even prove the point you want it to is much less 'controversial' and 'tiny'. Okay.

[Stratego89]

41 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

Oh and just a small note, that 'tiny controversial scene' is far more evidence for sentience than you've been able to provide against the notion

Literally only to you- and literally only because you refuse to accept what are pretty much facts that have been put in front of you in a neat and orderly fashion. If you will not listen, it's not worth continuing this conversation.

[Littlerift]

1 minute ago, Stratego89 said:

Literally only to you- and literally only because you refuse to accept what are pretty much facts that have been put in front of you in a neat and orderly fashion. If you will not listen, it's not worth continuing this conversation.

 

Well clearly it's not only me that you've failed to convince as in both this thread and some other one a few days ago you've had numerous people disagreeing with you. But okay, good day to you.

[Plushy]

I can't help but think back to the days before the Second Dream quest. Everybody had their own ideas of what Tenno were, energy beings possessing a lifeless suit, sentient infested that can warp its shape to fill the frames, some people even guessed what ended up being the truth or just got close to it. Now its about what's in the frame. Is it a person? Perhaps (still) infested flesh. Maybe some other kind of miscellaneous blob or shiny too, sentient or not. 

 The point is the people who thought of theories about what we are were completely convinced they were right and became extremely defensive when someone would point outany obvious flaws. The same thing is happening with theories about what's inside the frames themselves and if they are actually living thinking breathing entities or not. When DE eventually tells us, let's hope people get down off their high horses with grace rather than react how they did in the aftermath of the Second Dream. We are still dealing with the angst from people who can't accept the story we got. 

I'm not directing this at anyone specifically. As a community let's just try to keep a calm mind about the issue. Let's try to come up with theories and discuss them without jumping to conclusions. There's always a lot of support for every side but let's try to remember we just don't know and we have no way of absolutely knowing until we have real proof or DE tells us. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

7 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

What stops us? Uh... simple. Transference is 1:1 control. We did not research, develop, and perfect transference- the brilliant orokin minds of their era with all their unmatchable technology did. We have neither the knowledge, the time, the manpower, nor even the technology in order to change how the system works, and controlling a living creature must be hard enough. Imagine trying to control more than one body at the same time- it would probably drive you insane within seconds because of how extremely disorienting it is. Let alone the feedback of senses. Controlling more than one body at a time just doesn't work. it's not like an RC car- when we are controlling the Warframes, we are the warframes. We feel the pain, we see what is there, we hear what is around it.

Disproves? What? It does nothing but further suggest it. Do you really think any infested would decide to just randomly stop killing things? Do you think any creature on a rampage like that would suddenly decide to stop and look down at it's hands like it's wondering "wait wtf where am I?". No- it was a Tenno taking control of it. Plain and simple.

You are really starting to sound completely ridiculous now mate. "You expect me to believe the Tenno can control two bodies at once?". Uh... their own and the warframe, sure. That warframe was moving very sloppily- you could tell we were hardly controlling it to an extent accurate enough to walk and move us along. Besides- I don't need to prove anything. You can very very clearly see in the quest that we touch the frame- and send a surge of energy through it to control it. You can also very very clearly see that the beam of energy comes out of the Tenno's hand. You are questioning stuff that is straight up displayed to you on a silver platter as facts- but apparently you did not pay any attention to the quest.

 

Chroma was not acting out of it's own free will- Lotus herself said it was an empty shell, with no Tenno controlling it. And as we all know- Warframes do not have sentience.

There is stuff stopping sentients from controlling our warframes. The orbiter carrying our spare frames is hidden in the void- a place sentients cannot enter or else they will DIE because void energy is poison to them. The one we are controlling has the same void energy flowing through it- if they tried to control it the feedback would most likely kill them instantly.

 

You're helping my own point here. The second we stopped using transference on it, the body dropped. Please do take a moment to think to yourself for a second and try to come up with a reasonable explanation as to why it did not instantly go out of control as any infested would (Warframes use infested tissue to make transference possible- this is lore found in that Rhino Prime codex entry we've been talking about). Why did it instead sit there until we touched it and sent our energy into it? Simple: It's has no sentience. It cannot move itself. We obviously do not need the machinery as you claim, because if we did we couldn't then we wouldn't have been making it carry us to our ship. As long as we can send energy into it- which we could very well possibly do from a short distance in a room filled with said energy, aka the part of our ships that this controversial scene happened in- it can be controlled.

 

And last but not least since you are apparently simply going to refuse to believe we were controlling the warframes ourselves- go and find the devstream (either first one or second one) after the Second Dream came out, where they recapped what had happened. DE THEMSELVES said "where you touch your warframe and send your void energies into it to control it and carry yourself back to your ship". DE THEMSELVES said that- any argument you have is invalid because the Devs are always right- it's their game. You cannot argue with what they have said. I didn't need to include ANYTHING but this section- but I felt a need to point out to you just how blatantly obvious it is that you didn't pay attention to the quest.

 

You need to re-read your own posts as you are contradicting yourself every other post.  And are you reading the same Rhino Prime lore as I am?

Here's the one I am reading, You know the one where a warframe goes around killing everyone till somebody controls him.

 

Red lights flashing on stark, white walls. Davis is running ahead of me, dropping his notes. We're running for our lives. The fear gives me a strange perspective - I'm out of my body. I've forgotten how I got here. I don't recognize this place. 

Davis and I slam pinned against a cell door and he shouts at me. I give him a dumb look. I can't hear him, the sirens, anything, only the muffled throb of terror in my head. I turn away from Davis down the hall and I see it. The hulking mass, flickering red, glinting like steel and fresh blood. Its skin changes, flowing like mercury when I'm blinded by the sudden muzzle-flashes. They do no good. The beast surges forward and the security men become crimson mist and gore. 

I'm a statue, a cornered animal. A gate opens inside me and recognition floods in. I have seen this monster before. I have cut its shell and eviscerated its brothers. I have given it pain and measured its response. I have crafted then rejected countless like it. But I've never seen this beast so close, without the shield, without restraints. I have never seen it... free. 

I know I will die so I just watch with curious acceptance. The beast squats down, shovelling a heap of gore into its mouth. It is watching me with vague eyes, a sense of recognition, ancestral memory. It knows who I am and what I've done. It rears up like a bear and roars, shattering the lights and casting us into darkness. I can hear it lumbering toward me, its metal fingers rending the walls, but I know I am dead. I close my eyes and stand ready to pay. 

I feel the pull on my arm and realize Davis got the cell open. He tugs me into the cell beyond and I fall on my back. I see Davis standing at the open door, waiting, as the monster tears towards us. 

Suddenly I could live through this I shout, "Davis, close the goddamn door!" - But he shakes his head eyes wide as moons. He shouts, "Watch!" over the roaring and rending of metal. 

Then silence. Davis is panting, laughing? The beast fills the doorway, inches from him, dripping in blood, but still without violence. It stands there, looking at its hands. Davis whispers, "No one would have believed me." 

I crawl up the wall to stand, opposite the door. I've never seen this cell, a cold place with an array of shelves. A morgue? "Where are we, Davis?" 

"This is where they keep them. The ones from Zariman." I'm thrown, what was the Zariman? The ship that never returned? "Davis, what's going on?" 

Davis turns to me, a smile forming - "What's going on is..." he turns back to the beast now silent and calm. 

"...big, fat promotions."

 

So what stopped his bloody rampage? He was clearly alive till transference or something else stopped him. Thats my argument about warframes being alive. You think somebody made a warframe and decided to just massacre a few of the technicians building it for a practical joke? Davis just flipped out his Orokin iPhone and texted his buddy "Yo don't kill me bro." Then he gets big fat promotions.  

 

Secondly Chroma was a hollow shell, In the void, where it is toxic for sentients. The arcane machine was located in a derelict in the middle of no mans land for sentients. If a sentient can control a warframe like that, Then he can easily control any warframe that the operator isn't currently using. So hunhow should have 20 death machines just waiting to jump me when I return to my ship. Its more likely Chroma was acting on his own primal urges.

 

The biggest problem is that when your warframe starts breaking apart Hunhow aka Stalker's sword Hunhow is confused. He says "What is this?" Before dying.

The tenno wasn't touching it, and there is no other way to explain Hunhow's confusion. Go re-read your posts and stop contradicting yourself. Are you gonna tell me that tenno can magically control warframes without a transference pod or touch? Then whats the point of transference?

 

[Lendalas]

I really don't get all this arguing about Rhino and Chroma. Valkyr went mad when Alad V tortutred her, didn't he? If she has no sentience, what went mad? What more proof does one need that Warframes aren't just puppets?

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

6 minutes ago, Lendalas said:

I really don't get all this arguing about Rhino and Chroma. Valkyr went mad when Alad V tortutred her, didn't he? If she has no sentience, what went mad? What more proof does one need that Warframes aren't just puppets?

I belive warframes are alive, but that is a fair point either way

[Kinetos]

2 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

The tenno wasn't touching it, and there is no other way to explain Hunhow's confusion. Go re-read your posts and stop contradicting yourself. Are you gonna tell me that tenno can magically control warframes without a transference pod or touch? Then whats the point of transference?

 

What Transference tech was around during the Rhino codex? It's unnecessary. The chair is a range extender and life support, but transference works without it. 

[Misgenesis]

Youre looking far too deep into that. It just looks like the base was designed first, which would be the head model, and then they added the swirly helmet as the prime part.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

17 minutes ago, KinetosImpetus said:

What Transference tech was around during the Rhino codex? It's unnecessary. The chair is a range extender and life support, but transference works without it. 

We have no proof of that. As soon as the operator got out of the transference pod, our warframe immediately dropped to the ground. Transference was only really restored when the operator was placed into the transference pod in our ship. The rhino codex refers to a warframe going out of control and killing people then pacified by some means. 

[Stratego89]

9 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

The tenno wasn't touching it, and there is no other way to explain Hunhow's confusion. Go re-read your posts and stop contradicting yourself. Are you gonna tell me that tenno can magically control warframes without a transference pod or touch? Then whats the point of transference?

I don't believe it's been said anywhere that Tenno absolutely NEED that pod they were sitting in to use tranference (or touch). That pod we were in in second dream wasn't made for transference- it was to keep us asleep and not-lucid so we'd think we WERE the frames and wouldn't question what we were doing so we'd obey our orokin overlords.

Now I know the first thing you're going to say in response is "then why didn't we just control the frame normally after coming out of the pod" and the answer is because coming out of a hundreds or even thousands long cryofreeze would kinda make a person a little woozy. Not to mention the fact that we had NO CLUE WHATSOEVER what was going on- we were disoriented physically and mentally, the fact that we managed to even get the frame to carry us all lopsided is probably a miracle under that situation. Under normal conditions- we very well may be able to even control the frame properly from a short distance without being in the transference room. No one can say for sure because it's not established how precisely transference works. Clearly we do not need to be asleep in some pod for our consciences to be transferred to the frame or something- we move and speak in our real bodies through comms while in mission, meaning we can control the frame and do other things at the same time.

[(PSN)forChristsake]

As far as "do they have a brain?" you need look no farther than Valkyr's head. If that isn't obvious brain in there, then I don't know what is. And I agree with the above mention of Valkyr's response to being tortured (stripped for parts?). If nothing else, maybe tenno are made with the same ingredients as soilent green? "It's people!"

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

7 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

I don't believe it's been said anywhere that Tenno absolutely NEED that pod they were sitting in to use tranference (or touch). That pod we were in in second dream wasn't made for transference- it was to keep us asleep and not-lucid so we'd think we WERE the frames and wouldn't question what we were doing so we'd obey our orokin overlords.

Now I know the first thing you're going to say in response is "then why didn't we just control the frame normally after coming out of the pod" and the answer is because coming out of a hundreds or even thousands long cryofreeze would kinda make a person a little woozy. Not to mention the fact that we had NO CLUE WHATSOEVER what was going on- we were disoriented physically and mentally, the fact that we managed to even get the frame to carry us all lopsided is probably a miracle under that situation. Under normal conditions- we very well may be able to even control the frame properly from a short distance without being in the transference room. No one can say for sure because it's not established how precisely transference works. Clearly we do not need to be asleep in some pod for our consciences to be transferred to the frame or something- we move and speak in our real bodies through comms while in mission, meaning we can control the frame and do other things at the same time.

The second Dream (the transference pods) are what makes transference possible. They are one in the same of lengthening lives of the tenno and controlling the warframes. If they were only to keep tenno in the second dream, then we wouldn't have them in our liset. Our warframes would have been unaffected when the operator left their pod. That's not the case. Considering how complicated transference must be, (telekinetically controlling a warframe) it makes sense that a large portion of our ship is dedicated to it. Take a look at the chamber, Its large and seemingly has no other function then to control our various warframes. 

 

You and I will disagree about how the warframe moving on its own, The beast in rhino lore moved on its own, As our warframe dropped into the ground after we left our pod, is where I think transference stopped. No entity has been visibly able to embody a warframe without being in a transference pod. Transference is what stopped the beast in the rhino lore. But I digress, we will not agree xD. Most operators only speak to the player (if breaking the fourth wall) Or their warframe. I haven't seen a single transmission from a tenno other then my own, so its not really communicating to anyone. Its just the tenno's thoughts on the matter at hand.

And I already know that my five forma-ed warframe is strong... I already know the corpus are a cult that worships money... (I muted my operator quite quickly... I rather not have them tell me things I already know....) 

[Stratego89]

4 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

You and I will disagree about how the warframe moving on its own, The beast in rhino lore moved on its own, As our warframe dropped into the ground after we left our pod, is where I think transference stopped. No entity has been visibly able to embody a warframe without being in a transference pod. Transference is what stopped the beast in the rhino lore. But I digress, we will not agree xD. Most operators only speak to the player (if breaking the fourth wall) Or their warframe. I haven't seen a single transmission from a tenno other then my own, so its not really communicating to anyone. Its just the tenno's thoughts on the matter at hand.

And I already know that my five forma-ed warframe is strong... I already know the corpus are a cult that worships money... (I muted my operator quite quickly... I rather not have them tell me things I already know....) 

Ofc the beast in rhino lore moved on it's own- it's an infested, they do that.

Yes- that's where transference stopped, because we were going from our auto-pilot sleep-mode to wide awake and extremely disoriented. Even if we can control warframes from a small distance- under those situations such complex things would just not be possible.

Uh- they have though. Again, we controlled the frame into carrying us, proving that- even if it's not transference- controlling a frame's movement to some extents is indeed possible without our fancy transference chairs that enable PERFECT control over UNIMAGINABLE distances.

I think the "we" stuff in the Tenno transmissions was meant to be talking to the squad as a whole, honestly. I think they originally intended to have those messages display between each other (a way to show off our operator customization yeah?) and it ended up being cut, but unfortunately they made a decision to record these voice lines too soon, meaning once something changed they were unable to change the voice lines because it takes time, money, people, etc- which they didn't really have much of leading up to the quest release. Ofc this is just what I personally think since talking to the warframe makes no sense (unless we're crazy, which let's be honest considering everything that happened to us wouldn't be much of a stretch)- and warframe's most MAJOR lore related transmissions would never break the fourth wall.

Oh yes. OH GOD the voice lines. This is another reason I think they were done early on (big mistake if so). They sound incredibly cheesy, make no sense (like you pointed out, we KNOW the stuff the Operators go on about and act like they don't know. They've been controlling the frame but they remember everything that has happened while they were "asleep". Proof: we recognized Lotus ON SIGHT as a friendly, and made references to what we'd been doing. Iirc the quote was something like "I thought I was [the warframe]". I really do hope those voice lines change to be more serious, make sense, be less childish (I mean come on- we're "kids" but we're probably like 50 or so considering the orokins' immense lifespans, not to mention that even if we were younger we've spent MANY years in that stasis state during the war and after waking up, doing things no person could ever do and remain childish unless they had serious problems going on in their heads), and most importantly be LESS FREQUENT. Part of what made Warframe's atmosphere and feeling was the lack of people talking all the time, save for the occasional IMPORTANT communications from Lotus, Ordis, etc. Now every 2 minutes there's some kid spewing random nonsense or bad one-liners. Oh, and a disclaimer. DE I'm not trying to bash, but the voice lines really REALLY do need to change. No one likes them... I can say that without even the slightest doubt.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

1 minute ago, Stratego89 said:

Ofc the beast in rhino lore moved on it's own- it's an infested, they do that.

That doesn't make any sense to me. Transference was never made with infested in mind. Re read the Rhino Lore. Whats the point of measuring the response of an infested? What's the point of examining its shell? There's one part especially in the rhino lore that makes it clear that its a warframe prototype (Its still based of the technocyte virus but there is a clear distinction between a warframe and an infested) When you talk about infested, do the terms "Metal Fingers" or "lumbering" come to mind? The technocyte virus is said to be extremely painful, Look at your normal charger, Its a contorted Grineer, Same with Corpus. There's no need to examine its response to pain as it's a weapon just designed to kill. However, If you are an Orokin designing a hollow shell to harness the powers of the void, then examining it suddenly makes sense. The warframe needs to act like a Tenno's second body. It needs to feel pain and experience all the sensations that a human would. It needs to feel, so it can be precise in its actions. Have you tried to do something while numb? That's the point of the experiments in the rhino lore. The tenno thought it was the warframe because the tenno felt everything that the warframe did. 

Also the beast roars at the end of the lore entry... Almost like Rhino's Roar... coincidence? Naaaaah Couldn't be.

(Other humanoid features include: Beast Squats down and rears up like a bear... Also examines its metal fingers... Too human sounding to be your average infested)

 

[Stratego89]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

That doesn't make any sense to me. Transference was never made with infested in mind. Re read the Rhino Lore. Whats the point of measuring the response of an infested? What's the point of examining its shell? There's one part especially in the rhino lore that makes it clear that its a warframe prototype (Its still based of the technocyte virus but there is a clear distinction between a warframe and an infested) When you talk about infested, do the terms "Metal Fingers" or "lumbering" come to mind? The technocyte virus is said to be extremely painful, Look at your normal charger, Its a contorted Grineer, Same with Corpus. There's no need to examine its response to pain as it's a weapon just designed to kill. However, If you are an Orokin designing a hollow shell to harness the powers of the void, then examining it suddenly makes sense. The warframe needs to act like a Tenno's second body. It needs to feel pain and experience all the sensations that a human would. It needs to feel, so it can be precise in its actions. Have you tried to do something while numb? That's the point of the experiments in the rhino lore. The tenno thought it was the warframe because the tenno felt everything that the warframe did. 

Also the beast roars at the end of the lore entry... Almost like Rhino's Roar... coincidence? Naaaaah Couldn't be.

(Other humanoid features include: Beast Squats down and rears up like a bear... Also examines its metal fingers... Too human sounding to be your average infested)

 

It doesn't make sense to you because you keep refusing to consider what I said is correct. The Orokin used the infested to combat the sentients- or were trying to. That's why they were experimenting on them. They weren't TRYING to make tranference- they DISCOVERED it. That is the significance of this codex entry. This is how tranference was DISCOVERED. That's a very key word that you need to understand. One researches to DEVELOP something- one finds something to discover it. The discovery of the tranference effect seen in the Rhino Prime codex entry is what lead to the research and development of transference- and in response to that, warframes.

Coincidence? Ofc not. The warframes all take inspiration from something for their abilities, they probably designed the Rhino warframe with this infested in mind after seeing it's insane combat capabilities. You conveniently try to use something that does not prove ANYTHING to try to help your poorly held together arguments- yet you ignore something that DOES prove something that would hurt your arguments. The thing in the rhino prime codex entry was EATING THEM. Warframes don't have mouths. Infested do. Warframes do not eat people for food. Infested do. Coincidence? Ofc not. It's because for the LAST time- it was an infested.......

You know what else squats down and rears up like a bear? Juggernaut. Guess what juggernaut does? Roar. Look at infested- their flesh turns METALLIC. Their fingers... are... metal...... All these things you're trying to use for your argument also suggest it could be an infested- yet everything I bring up DISPROVES it as a frame and even FURTHER benefits the suggestion that it was an infested- or should I say fact, because it's blatantly obvious?

EDIT: One last thing. As inconvenient as it is for my argument, I've forgotten where exactly the piece of lore that suggests they only started developing warframes (as we know them at least) happens to be, so I'm going to give a "in that case/what if". The Orokin tried to use the infested against the sentients but failed because they couldn't exactly just control them, and they attacked them as well. What if... they were examining infested body composition to try to use it to reinforce their armies? Perhaps by making SUITS out of the infested metallic flesh that makes them so durable. While researching this stuff- at the same time an infested got loose and started killing everyone, and two scientists running for the hills were there to witness it's rampage come to a halt- learning that the infested flesh could be manipulated via Tenno, a process which was studied in depth afterwards and dubbed transference, then coupled with the infested research they had been doing to create an "unkillable" soldier body that could be controlled like a puppet on strings and mass produced.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Stratego89

[SilentMobius]

1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

That doesn't make any sense to me. Transference was never made with infested in mind. Re read the Rhino Lore. Whats the point of measuring the response of an infested? What's the point of examining its shell? There's one part especially in the rhino lore that makes it clear that its a warframe prototype (Its still based of the technocyte virus but there is a clear distinction between a warframe and an infested) When you talk about infested, do the terms "Metal Fingers" or "lumbering" come to mind? The technocyte virus is said to be extremely painful, Look at your normal charger, Its a contorted Grineer, Same with Corpus. There's no need to examine its response to pain as it's a weapon just designed to kill. However, If you are an Orokin designing a hollow shell to harness the powers of the void, then examining it suddenly makes sense. The warframe needs to act like a Tenno's second body. It needs to feel pain and experience all the sensations that a human would. It needs to feel, so it can be precise in its actions. Have you tried to do something while numb? That's the point of the experiments in the rhino lore. The tenno thought it was the warframe because the tenno felt everything that the warframe did. 

Also the beast roars at the end of the lore entry... Almost like Rhino's Roar... coincidence? Naaaaah Couldn't be.

(Other humanoid features include: Beast Squats down and rears up like a bear... Also examines its metal fingers... Too human sounding to be your average infested)

 

Transference doesn't appear to have existed until after the RPC. The events of the RPC are illustrating the discovery of the process that the Orokin (Probably Davis and the Protagonist of the RPC) weaponize into Transference. Remember, the Lotus tells us that Margulis' work was used to create Transference.

Why would the Orokin be researching the infestation? Well everything we know suggests because they were trying to use it (or a precursor) as a weapon. Our Tenno explicitly describes the infestation as "And Orokin Weapon that backfired" surely presuming research of different forms of infestation would be precisely what the Orokin would be doing if they were planning to use it as a weapon.

IMHO it's most likely that "The Beast" is a pre-Warframe creation, not a Warframe. Something that that the Orokin were researching to use against the sentients. When Davis found out about Margulis's research he surmised that the Tenno may be able to transfer into a host but he was unable to gain access to test his theory so he has to arrange a grizzly escape for one of the monsters so he could lead it to the storage location of the Zariman children. Once the beast was close once of the children latched onto it and took it over. From the proof of this event came the research that led to Warframes and Transference.

Certainly the RPC is implying that parts of "The Beast" made it into the design of the Rhino Warframe, by referring to the abilities that the creature exhibited, which together IMHO strongly suggests that there are at least some infested (or some precursor of the Infestation) material used in the construction of a Warframe.

N.B. I'm not using the term "Technocyte" deliberately as we have no reliable data that tells us whether the term "Techocyte" is a sub or super set of the infestation. There are only Two uses of the term anywhere in Warframe and only one in-game so it's a very vague term.

Edited March 29, 2016 by SilentMobius

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

1 hour ago, Stratego89 said:

It doesn't make sense to you because you keep refusing to consider what I said is correct. The Orokin used the infested to combat the sentients- or were trying to. That's why they were experimenting on them. They weren't TRYING to make tranference- they DISCOVERED it. That is the significance of this codex entry. This is how tranference was DISCOVERED. That's a very key word that you need to understand. One researches to DEVELOP something- one finds something to discover it. The discovery of the tranference effect seen in the Rhino Prime codex entry is what lead to the research and development of transference- and in response to that, warframes.

Coincidence? Ofc not. The warframes all take inspiration from something for their abilities, they probably designed the Rhino warframe with this infested in mind after seeing it's insane combat capabilities. You conveniently try to use something that does not prove ANYTHING to try to help your poorly held together arguments- yet you ignore something that DOES prove something that would hurt your arguments. The thing in the rhino prime codex entry was EATING THEM. Warframes don't have mouths. Infested do. Warframes do not eat people for food. Infested do. Coincidence? Ofc not. It's because for the LAST time- it was an infested.......

You know what else squats down and rears up like a bear? Juggernaut. Guess what juggernaut does? Roar. Look at infested- their flesh turns METALLIC. Their fingers... are... metal...... All these things you're trying to use for your argument also suggest it could be an infested- yet everything I bring up DISPROVES it as a frame and even FURTHER benefits the suggestion that it was an infested- or should I say fact, because it's blatantly obvious?

EDIT: One last thing. As inconvenient as it is for my argument, I've forgotten where exactly the piece of lore that suggests they only started developing warframes (as we know them at least) happens to be, so I'm going to give a "in that case/what if". The Orokin tried to use the infested against the sentients but failed because they couldn't exactly just control them, and they attacked them as well. What if... they were examining infested body composition to try to use it to reinforce their armies? Perhaps by making SUITS out of the infested metallic flesh that makes them so durable. While researching this stuff- at the same time an infested got loose and started killing everyone, and two scientists running for the hills were there to witness it's rampage come to a halt- learning that the infested flesh could be manipulated via Tenno, a process which was studied in depth afterwards and dubbed transference, then coupled with the infested research they had been doing to create an "unkillable" soldier body that could be controlled like a puppet on strings and mass produced.

 

I don't see a juggernaught being able to look at its metal claws fingers, And I certainly don't see a juggernaught rending the walls with its Metal fingers while lumbering towards people. Considering its completely immune to nyx's chaos/mind control I don't see it being controlled a possibility. Also Margulis was working on a way to help the tenno, Transference was discovered as she (unlike the orokin) Didn't see the tenno as evil. Transference was based of Margulis's work to help the tenno control their powers. The fact that transference is capable of controlling any kind of beast (especially one made out of infested tissue) alone is enough to believe that a warframe has the potential of being alive (Interesting how a warframe can bleed). Also You are forgetting about the Neural Sentry ( Remember when i asked why can't the tenno just control all the infested?) Its cause you can only control certain infested it seems. More on that later.

 

35 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Transference doesn't appear to have existed until after the RPC. The events of the RPC are illustrating the discovery of the process that the Orokin (Probably Davis and the Protagonist of the RPC) weaponize into Transference. Remember, the Lotus tells us that Margulis' work was used to create Transference.

Why would the Orokin be researching the infestation? Well everything we know suggests because they were trying to use it (or a precursor) as a weapon. Our Tenno explicitly describes the infestation as "And Orokin Weapon that backfired" surely presuming research of different forms of infestation would be precisely what the Orokin would be doing if they were planning to use it as a weapon.

IMHO it's most likely that "The Beast" is a pre-Warframe creation, not a Warframe. Something that that the Orokin were researching to use against the sentients. When Davis found out about Margulis's research he surmised that the Tenno may be able to transfer into a host but he was unable to gain access to test his theory so he has to arrange a grizzly escape for one of the monsters so he could lead it to the storage location of the Zariman children. Once the beast was close once of the children latched onto it and took it over. From the proof of this event came the research that led to Warframes and Transference.

Certainly the RPC is implying that parts of "The Beast" made it into the design of the Rhino Warframe, by referring to the abilities that the creature exhibited, which together IMHO strongly suggests that there are at least some infested (or some precursor of the Infestation) material used in the construction of a Warframe.

N.B. I'm not using the term "Technocyte" deliberately as we have no reliable data that tells us whether the term "Techocyte" is a sub or super set of the infestation. There are only Two uses of the term anywhere in Warframe and only one in-game so it's a very vague term.

 

We have no proof that any of the zimmerman children touched it/latched on to it. Only that the beast stopped in what looked like a morgue where they kept the children of the zimmerman. Anything else you add is mere speculation. We do know the infested was a weapon predating the tenno, as a failed weapon to fight the sentients. And a specialized form of infested tissue was used to create warframes. We don't know for certain what stopped the beast as our only clue is "Nobody would believe me" While its likely that the beast could be controlled from transference, and that it was atleast a prototype warframe allows the possibility of other warframes being alive. The best example of this is the Neural Sentry. What is the Neural Sentry? Its a mysterious entity that overwrites the will of any being that enters the orokin towers. Its very similar to transference but on a much broader scale. It seemingly can control a countless number of people and has complete control over them. Interestingly... The Neural Sentry is also capable of reviving its soldiers... As Corrupted Vor will be revived time and time again. But the most important fact about the Neural Sentry is that it requires a living host. Yes, it can control robots, But all the grinner and corpus controlled by it are stripped of their will and will attack anyone who trespasses to far into the tower. What would happen if the Neural Sentry was disabled? Would everyone being controlled by it drop dead? Or would they be free of the sentry's influence? It also appears that it requires special technology as most corrupted units have orokin devices attached on them.

[SilentMobius]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

We have no proof that any of the zimmerman children touched it/latched on to it. Only that the beast stopped in what looked like a morgue where they kept the children of the zimmerman. Anything else you add is mere speculation. 

Given that The area explicitly referred to the Zariman and the beast used the "Staring at their hands" gesture that was repeated twice in the second dream when a Tenno is pondering their identity, I think it's much more likely than not that a Tenno took control of the Beast (No touching required), if that is not the case then what is it that Davis thinks there will be "Big Promotions" as a result of? 

17 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

We do know the infested was a weapon predating the tenno, as a failed weapon to fight the sentients.

Actually we don't know the Infestation predated the Tenno, all we know is that Lephantis was created to fight in the old war and that our Tenno tells us that the infestation was "An Orokin Weapon that Backfired" we don't actually know if it was ever deployed in the Old War. For all we know the infestation or a precursor to it was never deployed due to being found to be too dangerous. Neither do we know anything about infested material in Warframes. We can make an assumption at least some of the material making up the Beast was also used to make the Rhino Warframe. But even that is on shakey ground.

17 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

While its likely that the beast could be controlled from transference, and that it was atleast a prototype warframe allows the possibility of other warframes being alive. 

Firstly "alive" doesn't really say much, bacteria is "alive", do you mean "Sentient" or "Sapient" maybe? Also that is begging the question. if your thesis is "Warframes are alive[sic] (Sentient/Sapient)" and you cite "The beast as corroboration" (Which I would argue that the beast is demonstrably a pre-Warframe entity therefor there are no attributes of the beast that can be applied to a Warframe without additional corroboration) or your thesis is that "The beast is a prototype Warframe" (Which I would disagree with as above) and cite "Warframes are alive[sic] (Sentient/Sapient)" (Which I would say is unsupported) Neither of the two points you bring up are strong enough to act as support for the other, they are both unsupported assertions.

17 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

The Neural Sentry[snip]

The neural sentry is orthogonal to the matter of Warframes, the RPC and the Infestation. We know virtually nothing about it, certainly nothing that can be applied here.

Edited March 29, 2016 by SilentMobius