So Mag Prime has a brain

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

7 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Actually we don't know the Infestation predated the Tenno, all we know is that Lephantis was created to fight in the old war and that our Tenno tells us that the infestation was "An Orokin Weapon that Backfired" we don't actually know if it was ever deployed in the Old War.

As our warframes are composed of infested tissue, We can safely say that infested predated warframes. It doesn't matter if they were ever used against the sentients as the only thing that matters is that infested tissue is flexible but tough as metal. You can't make a tank if you don't know how to forge metal. Replace tank with warframe and metal with infested tissue :P

 

The Neural Sentry is an orokin device that controls the corrupted. I expect it to be elaborated on later in the lore, but it appears no different then what tenno use to control warframes. 

 

Here's my question. Lets say transference stopped the beast. What happens if you stop the transference? 

[SilentMobius]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

As our warframes are composed of infested tissue, We can safely say that infested predated warframes. It doesn't matter if they were ever used against the sentients as the only thing that matters is that infested tissue is flexible but tough as metal. You can't make a tank if you don't know how to forge metal. Replace tank with warframe and metal with infested tissue :P

As I said we don't know that. it is one of the assumptions we can make, but it is far from confirmed.

Other possibilities:

• Warframe's are made of techno-organic material that the Orokin used for a long time before developing the disease that would become the infestation.
• Warframes use a "living metal" (Forma/Morphics) that is a byproduct of the infestation or a variant of it and contain no actual tissue or active material.

Sure I'm happy to accept some infested-like tissue as a possible component for Warframes but it is far from confirmed and must be considered an assumption not a point of fact, therefor can't be used in support and or prove any other assumptions.

[Stratego89]

36 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

 

I don't see a juggernaught being able to look at its metal claws fingers, And I certainly don't see a juggernaught rending the walls with its Metal fingers while lumbering towards people. Considering its completely immune to nyx's chaos/mind control I don't see it being controlled a possibility. Also Margulis was working on a way to help the tenno, Transference was discovered as she (unlike the orokin) Didn't see the tenno as evil. Transference was based of Margulis's work to help the tenno control their powers. The fact that transference is capable of controlling any kind of beast (especially one made out of infested tissue) alone is enough to believe that a warframe has the potential of being alive (Interesting how a warframe can bleed). Also You are forgetting about the Neural Sentry ( Remember when i asked why can't the tenno just control all the infested?) Its cause you can only control certain infested it seems. More on that later.

 

 

We have no proof that any of the zimmerman children touched it/latched on to it. Only that the beast stopped in what looked like a morgue where they kept the children of the zimmerman.

I was not implying that it was a juggernaught. Juggernauts were created from the black seed operatives stealing research from infested alad V's lab... This is established lore. I was just pointing out similarities to INFESTED- because it's an INFESTED. You REALLY cannot use your head and think about what you're reading can you? Yes- Margulis was the head researcher of transference- a TENNO POWER. She wanted to help them CONTROL it. She didn't see them as monsters, the Orokin did because they HAD this power. She did not discover it, her research was based on it. You don't research something you have not yet discovered- it doesn't work that way. It CANNOT control ANY kind of beast- it can ONLY control infested tissues. Why? We don't know yet, but that's why warframes use infested flesh in their construction. you would know ALL of this if you paid attention to the lore in your quests and readily available in game. The neural sentry has nothing to even do with us... why are you even bringing it up?

This part wasn't even a reply to me, it was a reply to someone else but I can't take this anymore. Zimmerman? Are you KIDDING ME? ZIMMERMAN? It's the ZARIMAN mate. This seals it- you have not paid a SINGLE BIT of attention to ANY of the stuff you are talking about here.

 

You did not pay attention to any of the lore. You are throwing complete nonsense at us when we are trying to explain things to you that you also refuse to pay attention to. You did not pay attention about the topic you are trying to discuss- so you don't deserve to even be discussing it. Either quit posting or go and actually read up and educate yourself so you stop annoying people.

[SilentMobius]

1 minute ago, Stratego89 said:

This part wasn't even a reply to me, it was a reply to someone else but I can't take this anymore. Zimmerman? Are you KIDDING ME? ZIMMERMAN? It's the ZARIMAN mate. This seals it- you have not paid a SINGLE BIT of attention to ANY of the stuff you are talking about here.

 

I think we can chalk that up to autocorrect, it does happen.

[Eftycchia]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Here's my question. Lets say transference stopped the beast. What happens if you stop the transference? 

The beast either goes on its own rampage or has enough self-sentience to protect its operator. Taken from Rhino Prime's codex entry and Second Dream's final cutscene.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

1 minute ago, SilentMobius said:

As I said we don't know that. it is one of the assumptions we can make, but it is far from confirmed.

Other possibilities:

• Warframe's are made of techno-organic material that the Orokin used for a long time before developing the disease that would become the infestation.
• Warframes use a "living metal" (Forma/Morphics) that is a byproduct of the infestation or a variant of it and contain no actual tissue or active material.

Sure I'm happy to accept some infested-like tissue as a possible component for Warframes but it is far from confirmed and must be considered an assumption not a point of fact, therefor can't be used in support and or prove any other assumptions.

Except that everywhere you go, there is an infested saying "Why do you destroy us? We are your flesh" 

[Stratego89]

3 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

I think we can chalk that up to autocorrect, it does happen.

If it wasn't for the absolute nonsense and inability to have a logical conversation and think about what he is reading or saying that he has painted a picture of in his LONG thread of responses- I'd maybe believe that.

[SilentMobius]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Except that everywhere you go, there is an infested saying "Why do you destroy us? We are your flesh" 

They say "We are your flesh" they don't make a comment on what the Tenno/Warframe is made of. Which may just as well be a reference to the infestation being made of human flesh. Which could be why they are confused when they try to infect a Warframe and get nothing, even though they can sense the tenno in there.

Think about this: imagine a resident-evil style zombie movie with semi intelligent body-horror monsters. The protagonist is fighting off a big monster and it hisses out "we are your flesh" would you assume that the protagonist was obviously infected as a result? No? Because it's just the sort of creepy thing a flesh-zombie made of humans might say? Precisely.

Is it possible that it's supposed to imply that there are some infested-like components to a Warframe? Sure, possible, but far from confirmed.

And again. DE were talking about "living metal" that was a by-product of the technocyte virus. For all we know the infestation could be talking about that.

Edited March 29, 2016 by SilentMobius

[Stratego89]

10 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

As I said we don't know that. it is one of the assumptions we can make, but it is far from confirmed.

Other possibilities:

• Warframe's are made of techno-organic material that the Orokin used for a long time before developing the disease that would become the infestation.
• Warframes use a "living metal" (Forma/Morphics) that is a byproduct of the infestation or a variant of it and contain no actual tissue or active material.

Sure I'm happy to accept some infested-like tissue as a possible component for Warframes but it is far from confirmed and must be considered an assumption not a point of fact, therefor can't be used in support and or prove any other assumptions.

If you had looked closely in the second dream, you can clearly see that the inside of a frame consists primarily of straight up infested flesh. Infested flesh is what we sync up with using transference, it's how it all works and why warframes use it. It is not far from confirmed, it's straight up said in various places.

EDIT: Also- the Orokin created the infested long LONG ago. Dark Sector is only confirmed to be "at least partially canon" (exact quote there) but most of the stuff related to technocyte is definitely canon. Orokin are humans in the far distant future after having evolved greatly. Based on the proto glaive skin's description, it can even be assumed that the Orokin went back to earth and found the technocyte their ancestors created- SPOILERS AHEAD FOR ANOTHER GAME. After/at the end of the events of Dark Sector, the outbreak was ended, but all infested was NOT destroyed, only left buried in a vault of sorts. The perfect place for it to sit and sit until eons later the Orokin come back and happen upon it and research it.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Stratego89

[SilentMobius]

25 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

If you had looked closely in the second dream, you can clearly see that the inside of a frame consists primarily of straight up infested flesh. Infested flesh is what we sync up with using transference, it's how it all works and why warframes use it. It is not far from confirmed, it's straight up said in various places.

I have looked closely, and I think you're completely mistaken. There is nothing in that slash save a particle effect and the shine of metal. In fact I think the entire "slash-mesh" is just an overlay with no hole at all, just a black center and some raised edges with a PBR metal shine

It's not said anywhere and I challenge you to find a single in game source that states it is.

25 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

EDIT: Also- the Orokin created the infested long LONG ago. Dark Sector is only confirmed to be "at least partially canon" (exact quote there) but 

That is not an exact quote. You are paraphrasing a joke about prime time. the only statement about canonicity is DE Steve explicitly stating that Warframe is not a sequel to Dark Sector and that they are inspired by the same thing (that is the "Dark Sector" game that was never published)

The commonality between DS and Warframe is in inspiration, not any kind of in-world sharing of universe. There is nothing in DS that can be relied upon to have happened in Warframe. Both games share a common ancestor, this:

You can read about how messed up Dark Sector was here http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/closing-digital-extreme-s-psychic-wound/1100-4555/ and how much of it was not the game DE wanted to make.

Edited March 29, 2016 by SilentMobius

[motorfirebox]

Now we just gotta get a heart for Rhino Prime and the noive for Valkitty.

[Littlerift]

Good to see Stratego is still claiming his fan-fiction is actual lore and shouting people down who disagree with claims that they don't pay attention.

 

Just thought I'd reiterate the fact that we don't know what the Warframes are, or how Transference works, or whether the Warframes are Sentient, and as such anybody claiming that any of their opinions on the matter are a fact is wrong. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

16 minutes ago, Derinkavat said:

The beast either goes on its own rampage or has enough self-sentience to protect its operator. Taken from Rhino Prime's codex entry and Second Dream's final cutscene.

I'm glad im not the only one who thinks so,

21 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

I was not implying that it was a juggernaught. Juggernauts were created from the black seed operatives stealing research from infested alad V's lab... This is established lore. I was just pointing out similarities to INFESTED- because it's an INFESTED. You REALLY cannot use your head and think about what you're reading can you? Yes- Margulis was the head researcher of transference- a TENNO POWER. She wanted to help them CONTROL it. She didn't see them as monsters, the Orokin did because they HAD this power. She did not discover it, her research was based on it. You don't research something you have not yet discovered- it doesn't work that way. It CANNOT control ANY kind of beast- it can ONLY control infested tissues. Why? We don't know yet, but that's why warframes use infested flesh in their construction. you would know ALL of this if you paid attention to the lore in your quests and readily available in game. The neural sentry has nothing to even do with us... why are you even bringing it up?

This part wasn't even a reply to me, it was a reply to someone else but I can't take this anymore. Zimmerman? Are you KIDDING ME? ZIMMERMAN? It's the ZARIMAN mate. This seals it- you have not paid a SINGLE BIT of attention to ANY of the stuff you are talking about here.

 

You did not pay attention to any of the lore. You are throwing complete nonsense at us when we are trying to explain things to you that you also refuse to pay attention to. You did not pay attention about the topic you are trying to discuss- so you don't deserve to even be discussing it. Either quit posting or go and actually read up and educate yourself so you stop annoying people.

You have quite a few facts backwards. You need to use your head, Infested become terribly deformed on their own and their limbs become disfigured and often turn into claws. Transference came from Margulis' research. Transference lets Tenno use their powers safely. The Orokin killed Margulis and turned her research into what eventually became the Neural Sentry and transference. Also If I had 1 platinum for every time Autocorrect messed up a word in warframe,,, I would have a lot of platinum... Especially when I talk about walker, I mean valkyr.  The Neural Sentry is important as it controls grineer and corpus using orokin technology to defend the old Orokin Towers. However, it appears that it struggles to control infested as it can only control ancient healers. If the Neural Sentry could control the infested, We would not have Orokin Derelicts. This is important as the beast in rhino lore would be difficult to control using transference if it truly was an infested. A warframe is similar to infested, But clearly distinct. This is one reason (besides the reasons you are oblivious to) That the beast in the rhino codex was closer to a warframe. 

 

And considering how you are unable to have a civilized discussion, maybe you should leave.

14 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

They say "We are your flesh" they don't make a comment on what the Tenno/Warframe is made of. Which may just as well be a reference to the infestation being made of human flesh. Which could be why they are confused when they try to infect a Warframe and get nothing, even though they can sense the tenno in there.

Think about this: imagine a resident-evil style zombie movie with semi intelligent body-horror monsters. The protagonist is fighting off a big monster and it hisses out "we are your flesh" would you assume that the protagonist was obviously infected as a result? No? Because it's just the sort of creepy thing a flesh-zombie made of humans might say? Precisely.

Is it possible that it's supposed to imply that there are some infested-like components to a Warframe? Sure, possible, but far from confirmed.

And again. DE were talking about "living metal" that was a by-product of the technocyte virus. For all we know the infestation could be talking about that.

 

Except that Jordas says "The golem sense we are of like flesh, It is confused" Or something to that extent, and Phorid says something along those lines as well.

The Technocyte virus in the right situations, is hard but flexible. Maybe certain conditions make it smooth and flexible, instead of contorting and distorting like how most of the infested are.

In the original Dark Sector game the Virus kinda worked like that...  It made Hayden Tenno into Excal while the final boss was resident evil-ish

23 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

I have looked closely, and I think you're completely mistaken. There is nothing in that slash save a particle effect and the shine of metal.

It's not said anywhere and I challenge you to find a single in game source that states it is.

Ignore him, He is just spouting whatever he wants without double checking to see if its accurate or not.

[Stratego89]

1 minute ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

IYou have quite a few facts backwards. You need to use your head, Infested become terribly deformed on their own and their limbs become disfigured and often turn into claws. Transference came from Margulis' research. Transference lets Tenno use their powers safely. The Orokin killed Margulis and turned her research into what eventually became the Neural Sentry and transference. Also If I had 1 platinum for every time Autocorrect messed up a word in warframe,,, I would have a lot of platinum... Especially when I talk about walker, I mean valkyr.  The Neural Sentry is important as it controls grineer and corpus using orokin technology to defend the old Orokin Towers. However, it appears that it struggles to control infested as it can only control ancient healers. If the Neural Sentry could control the infested, We would not have Orokin Derelicts. This is important as the beast in rhino lore would be difficult to control using transference if it truly was an infested. A warframe is similar to infested, But clearly distinct. This is one reason (besides the reasons you are oblivious to) That the beast in the rhino codex was closer to a warframe. 

Ignore him, He is just spouting whatever he wants without double checking to see if its accurate or not.

No- that's you. You are the one that should leave- not me. You are the one that is not checking your facts before spewing bs over... AND OVER. AND OVER...... You are not worth wasting my time and energy trying to educate. I've tried, I give up. You win- I guess you just can't fix... well you know how it goes, or maybe you don't.

[SilentMobius]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Except that Jordas says "The golem sense we are of like flesh, It is confused" Or something to that extent, and Phorid says something along those lines as well.

The Technocyte virus in the right situations, is hard but flexible. Maybe certain conditions make it smooth and flexible, instead of contorting and distorting like how most of the infested are.

In the original Dark Sector game the Virus kinda worked like that...  It made Hayden Tenno into Excal while the final boss was resident evil-ish

Again, if the infestation thinks that a Warframe is a person in a suit they that still fits just fine. Maybe there are elements related to the infestation in the makeup of a Warframe but we simply can conclude anything about their nature. As I said, the infestation may well be blathering about human flesh, forma, morphics or any other material that may be related. We simply don't know, and have very little data on the matter.

"Technocyte" is mentioned in two places only, once by Cephelon Cordylon and once in the Nano-spores text. Dark Sector is not canon to Warframe we can't and shouldn't apply any information from that game to this one. We know very little about it's correct use in a Warframe context and certainly nothing about it's physical properties.

[LightBriite]

I think at this point I think it's getting petty. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by LightBriite

[SilentMobius]

2 minutes ago, LightBriite said:

I think at this point SilentMobius is just making an &#! out of themselves. Please quit while your ahead, my face can't get anymore contorted than it is from cringing at this puked up refuse you call an argument. xD 

Really? Well thank you for your valuable contribution

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Just now, Stratego89 said:

No- that's you. You are the one that should leave- not me. You are the one that is not checking your facts before spewing bs over... AND OVER. AND OVER...... You are not worth wasting my time and energy trying to educate. I've tried, I give up. You win- I guess you just can't fix... well you know how it goes, or maybe you don't.

Really?

Then why was Hunhow surprised when our warframe broke his sword after he claimed warframes were puppets?

You completely missed the part where the Orokin killed Margulis and used her research for transference. You had that part completely backwards.

You still think Rhino Lore refers to an infested despite the fact that it is clearly a precursor to rhino.  (Name one infested that can walk while having its metal fingers rend the walls.) Tell me which infested can stand up and look at its hands. You are delusional if you think an ancient healer has fingers and roars.

 

Tell me if you know this one, Irony is wasted on the...

 

[morningstar999]

People seem to forget limbo has a brain like thing going on under his hat.....kinda...

Spoiler

 

[Stratego89]

42 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

-snip-

Yeah no- you might be talking about another thing, but DE has EXPLICITLY SAID in one of their streams "I don't want to say Dark Sector is fully canon for Warframe, because that kinda limits what we can do, but I will say that it's at least partially canon, yeah"

[LightBriite]

9 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Really? Well thank you for your valuable contribution

At this point nothing is "valuable" you're just trying to do a game of one-uppmenship about who knows piss all about a game with very vague lore. So the sarcasm can said in same with you because honestly you aren't really changing anyone's stance here, nor are you going to change yours. It's moot and you know that well enough that we're beyond a debate and instead just this "No you're wrong I'm right" BS. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by LightBriite

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

9 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Again, if the infestation thinks that a Warframe is a person in a suit they that still fits just fine. Maybe there are elements related to the infestation in the makeup of a Warframe but we simply can conclude anything about their nature. As I said, the infestation may well be blathering about human flesh, forma, morphics or any other material that may be related. We simply don't know, and have very little data on the matter.

"Technocyte" is mentioned in two places only, once by Cephelon Cordylon and once in the Nano-spores text. Dark Sector is not canon to Warframe we can't and shouldn't apply any information from that game to this one. We know very little about it's correct use in a Warframe context and certainly nothing about it's physical properties.

Certain weapons reference the great plague, A reference to dark sector. And since every infested boss claims we are of like flesh ( the only real flesh being the warframes ) Its pretty safe to assume that the warframes are a modified version of it. 

[SilentMobius]

20 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

Yeah no- you might be talking about another thing, but DE has EXPLICITLY SAID in one of their streams "I don't want to say Dark Sector is fully canon for Warframe, because that kinda limits what we can do, but I will say that it's at least partially canon, yeah"

I have every stream save locally and I watch them taking notes of lore references, I have a spreadsheet of references and timestamps, quote me a devstream because I'm certain you're mistaken, and I've seen it happen before.

EG:

Devstream 10 DE Steve 56:51

Absolutely yeah, there are connections. For the people who've played Dark Sector who like it and, y'know, yes. The answer to most of your questions is there is absolutly a relation, because we tried to make a hard-core sci-fi game and couldn't get it published and we toned it all down and set it on earth and made it a CIA agent and all these other compromises but a lot of those ideas that kinda leaked in are now what we're going back to. We're going back to the well (heh), and that's pure essence of bizarre awsome warframe-ness... Hayden is not the Stalker

Or Devstream 52 Steve again 56:40

Is Dark Sector canon for Warframe?

We're always kind of evasive about that because we well we didn't really even control that intellectual property when we started Warframe and that's why it wasn't called Dark Sector online or something whacky like that.
Um, a lot of the idea we had for Dark Sector Sci-fi, hardcore sci-fi, are the ideas that are now taking fruition in Warframe.
So, absolutely, is it, like, the prequel to Warframe?
I don't think you could say that,
but as you can see we're trying to draw those influences in

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by SilentMobius

[Stratego89]

1 minute ago, SilentMobius said:

I have every stream save locally and I watch then taking notes of lore references, I have a spreadsheet of references and timestamps, quote me a devstream because I'm certain you're mistaken, and I've seen it happen before.

While providing evidence is indeed the responsibility of the claimant- it's not worth my time to go through however many devstreams I would have to in order to find something insignificant to appease one person about something that is pretty much common knowledge. It is a thing that was said, I know it for a fact, and that's all that matters to me. If you want to go about talking about lore while not checking your claims, that's all you and doesn't affect me at all.

[SilentMobius]

6 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

While providing evidence is indeed the responsibility of the claimant- it's not worth my time to go through however many devstreams I would have to in order to find something insignificant to appease one person about something that is pretty much common knowledge. It is a thing that was said, I know it for a fact, and that's all that matters to me. If you want to go about talking about lore while not checking your claims, that's all you and doesn't affect me at all.

See above for actual quotes that talk about the canonicity of Dark Sector to Warframe.

Edited March 29, 2016 by SilentMobius