Ash Rework (Straw poll)

[(PSN)Keiji_Haku]

Ok. You are Invisible when You dont attack. Copy?

 

When You attack You break Your Invisibility and become Invincible, taking No damage as current Bladestorm.

 

No this isnt Peacemaker You arent stuck in Place. No I definetly dont wantto spit out Clones and do what I want, Thats lame and will ruin Bladestorm IMO ask what will happen to the finisher procs and Arcane Trickery with this concept (DE) Steve suggested back a few months ago.

 

That Bladestorm Idea honestly sounds disappointing.

 

Yeah another Exalted Ability sounds too OP, Redundant, and maybe Boring if You dont read the concept and understand what it offers Ash.

It keeps Ash as the Main Protagonist of Bladestorm, meaning You the Player are Bladestorm, not just Your Clones. We lose Bladestorm then whats the point of his Hidden Blades existing?

 

I think we all rather do Bladestorm ourselves. The current form we have works mechanically great but has issues, lack luster animations, vomit camera, no cancel button, Bugs, etc. I can go on forever, but It does work deals insane damage, renders You a God, and even benefits the Best out of Arcane Trickery which I swear I feel DE made Trickery solely for Ash himself

 

As for the mod scaling, it maybe slightly toned down to certain mods like exp:

 

Slash Damage mods:

Jagged Edge Buzzkill etc.

 

Finisher Damage Mods:

Finishing Touch Covert Lethality etc.

 

Attack Speed Mods:

Fury Quickening Berserker etc.

 

The elementals shouldnt be considered. I do consider the damage Bladestorm dishes out is insane but with this concept we lose he automatic kills it offers soo now Ash players have to Work for the kills, this is why I had to add alot of detail. Remember a well thought Idea cant be explained in 1-2 words. Im offering a complete discription of its functionality. Synergy with his whole kit as well is something I wanted since these Stance Ultimates offer this, like in Hysteria You can use Ripline Warcry and Paralysis, as well as Exalted Blade and Primal Fury allow Your ability usage while in the Ultimates why not add this to Exalted Bladestorm as I dubbed it :) 

but doesn't the rework idea basically make you a god too?

 

You said

"You are Invisible when You dont attack. Copy?

 

When You attack You break Your Invisibility and become Invincible, taking No damage as current Bladestorm."

 

You should have a period of vulnerability.

[AKKILLA]

but doesn't the rework idea basically make you a god too?

 

You said

"You are Invisible when You dont attack. Copy?

 

When You attack You break Your Invisibility and become Invincible, taking No damage as current Bladestorm."

 

You should have a period of vulnerability.

 

Well as I stated when You dont attack You are only Invisible meaning you cannot be seen, but You may take damage.

 

Remember current Bladestorm You are a GOD Period, soo in this concept theres some balance which is Interactivity.

So the fire and forget mechanic will be relieved, and You take damage while in Bladestorm which doesnt occur in our current iteration of Bladestorm

 

I think thats a good enough balance for this concept right?

[NezuHimeSama]

It really isn't, since you can't be targeted while not attacking, and you can't take damage while attacking. The only way to take damage is to stand in the line of fire of attacks targeted at someone/something else, and ash has enough HP, shields, and armour that that damage is irrelevant.

Hell, that's more OP than Valkyr, since with Valkyr, you can still be targeted by attacks that can hit your sentinel or drain energy(ancient disruptors), set off alarms, and you can still be swamped by/surrounded by enemies, restricting movement.

 

I maintain that we don't need to add a channeling superweapon to every warframe that ever has a 4 that needs reworking. It made sense for Excal, but it's out of place for Ash, and conflicts with the current identity of the frame.

[AKKILLA]

It really isn't, since you can't be targeted while not attacking, and you can't take damage while attacking. The only way to take damage is to stand in the line of fire of attacks targeted at someone/something else, and ash has enough HP, shields, and armour that that damage is irrelevant.

Hell, that's more OP than Valkyr, since with Valkyr, you can still be targeted by attacks that can hit your sentinel or drain energy(ancient disruptors), set off alarms, and you can still be swamped by/surrounded by enemies, restricting movement.

 

I maintain that we don't need to add a channeling superweapon to every warframe that ever has a 4 that needs reworking. It made sense for Excal, but it's out of place for Ash, and conflicts with the current identity of the frame.

 

Your opinion.

 

As You I stand firm on my convictions. It doesnt conflict what so ever with Ashs Identity one bit, why is it even an issue if You are Invincible?

Current Bladestorm Renders You Invincible PERIOD, theres not one second You take damage while in Bladestorm soo how does this conflict with his identity?

 

In fact although it maybe another Exalted Stance Ulti as the naive call it, its one of the most innovative and creative concepts for Bladestorm yet.

You prefer (DE) Steves iteration? Tagging enemies and sending out Clones to attack while You are relieved of being part of Bladestorm?

 

I honestly think ppl just dont want to see a better Ash. The few Ash fans who I seen in the community have just about similar ideas, and this Bladestorm concept is fantastic. May have a bit too much, but this is an ultimate that needs to be well thought out not just spit out Ninja Rumblers tbh thats wack, and a copy paste idea as well if thats what you wanna call My concept?

 

This idea has been introduced before by My clan member but not as defined or detailed, and folks said PLEASE NO MORE EXALTED ULTI'S/STANCE ULTI'S a month or 2 later...

 

ARTEMIS BOW/PRIMAL FURY release...

 

Ashs Bladestorm is the First Warframe with a Built in Weapon in his Ultimate soo I see why not, plus Ash is a Melee oriented Warframe and a Stance Ulti in fact will make him way more interactive and fun with synergy and more utility involved

[NezuHimeSama]

Current bladestorm renders you invincible at the cost of potentially reducing your damage output and completely restricting your mobility, as well as having a fixed energy cost for an inconsistent invincibility period that you have no control over.

 

Copying exaulted blade and making it even more overpowered isn't really innovative.

Excal is the first warframe with a built in weapon for it's ulti; aether skana. Also the first warframe period.

 

Making bladestorm more interactive is great, such as forcing you to actually pick your next target or be kicked out of bladestorm.

Turning it into yet another channeling weapon ulti, and a far more overpowered one than any other so far, is not. Srsly, 2k base finisher damage melee-modded weapon while invincible with full mobility? I get the feeling you haven't actually given this any more thought than "oh this would be so cool i want 2 b invinsibl nd its not op becuz raisons".

[AKKILLA]

Current bladestorm renders you invincible at the cost of potentially reducing your damage output and completely restricting your mobility, as well as having a fixed energy cost for an inconsistent invincibility period that you have no control over.

 

Copying exaulted blade and making it even more overpowered isn't really innovative.

Excal is the first warframe with a built in weapon for it's ulti; aether skana. Also the first warframe period.

 

Making bladestorm more interactive is great, such as forcing you to actually pick your next target or be kicked out of bladestorm.

Turning it into yet another channeling weapon ulti, and a far more overpowered one than any other so far, is not. Srsly, 2k base finisher damage melee-modded weapon while invincible with full mobility? I get the feeling you haven't actually given this any more thought than "oh this would be so cool i want 2 b invinsibl nd its not op becuz raisons".

 

Check Wikia it states Ash is the First frame with a Weapon innate to its ability. I dnt make this up i use the info thats here and consider it for the concept. Maybe the melee mod scaling is too much, soo in total your saying the ultimate is bad? Im sure with some changes it can be well rounded to suite Ash but please a crowd like you is what im tryna attempt. in the end its about everyone enjoying this rework not just me.

 

Other then "We dont need another Exalted ability" do you  not think its a good idea? With a few changes i think it may be good idk you tell me?

Give Me Your idea. This idea sorta was inspired not exactly from Exalted Blade but as a Stance Ultimate period emphasizing in Ashs play style and observing Grineer Manics behavior. How Ironic thats who we Farm Regular Ash from now.

 

Manics act sorta like Ash in Bladestorm anyway imo

[NezuHimeSama]

I think bladestorm should be more active. Something like you use it and target an enemy, and ash&co teleport to that enemy, marking a much smaller than current radius for damage, you can then look around and if you press mouse1 it marks another small area for a repeat. I think that alone would completely fix bladestorm's current "it's op" problems without it losing it's identity.

Also, bladestorm should never make enemies invincible. Ever. That's the stupidest thing and needs to go. Nothing like blasting an enemy in the face just to have it turn red and then some stupid animation plays, stunning it for a second before vanishing, leaving the thing barely scratched. F*** that, we do not need that.

 

And if you fail to find another target by the end of the animation, it boots you back to a standing state wherever you teleported to.

Simple, in line with the current thematics of Ash, presses for more skill rather than more spam, scales to chainkilling lines of enemies rather than filling entire maps with death. Even works with the existing assets, minimalizing the artistic work needed.

[AKKILLA]

And if you fail to find another target by the end of the animation, it boots you back to a standing state wherever you teleported to.

Simple, in line with the current thematics of Ash, presses for more skill rather than more spam, scales to chainkilling lines of enemies rather than filling entire maps with death. Even works with the existing assets, minimalizing the artistic work needed.

 

Ok from a designers point of view explain how it functions and happens, i dont picture it. This concept i created is alot or seems too much cause its actually able to be visualized, what You explained kinda sounded like Youre explaining Shadows of Mordors SHADOW STRIKE CHAIN but with no detail. I understand maybe your tired at this time of night but if you had the time to reply you could explain in depth painting a picture to visualize.

 

This basically am I correct?

[AKKILLA]

Added slight changes to the mods that Bladestorm scales off.

 

May add a few changes to accommodate Bladestorms balance but Remember Bladestorm already renders You invincible soo please be Mindful I am trying to keep this true to Bladestorms style while creating something new, fun, and active. While keeping in mind Arcane Trickerys benefits to Bladestorm now. I too have spent alot of plat on this enhancement and dont wish to ruin it but You will have to work for Trickery procs now instead of pressing for and crossing your fingers, You already are given enough resources in this current Bladestorm (Innate Invisibility when not attacking) etc.

[NezuHimeSama]

Ok from a designers point of view explain how it functions and happens, i dont picture it. This concept i created is alot or seems too much cause its actually able to be visualized, what You explained kinda sounded like Youre explaining Shadows of Mordors SHADOW STRIKE CHAIN but with no detail. I understand maybe your tired at this time of night but if you had the time to reply you could explain in depth painting a picture to visualize.

 

This basically am I correct?

That's pretty much it, but add in some clones and a small AOE to fit warframe's packed mods.

 

Didn't realize it existed in another game. Nifty. It fits ash much better than another channeling superweapon.

[AKKILLA]

That's pretty much it, but add in some clones and a small AOE to fit warframe's packed mods.

 

Didn't realize it existed in another game. Nifty. It fits ash much better than another channeling superweapon.

 

Hell no!

 

We play against Legions, Hordes even. this is too slow and we better off with the current iteration of Bladestorm.

[HAYABU5A]

U FORGOT THE PASSIVE

Throwing Secondary

and Throwing Melee

get a damage boost of some sort Idk....just an idea

 

this is actually an epic passive idea ! for our only truly ninja themed frame 

 

+1 do want

 

might not be the most useful passive but its definately thematically fitting and fun

[AKKILLA]

this is actually an epic passive idea ! for our only truly ninja themed frame 

 

+1 do want

 

might not be the most useful passive but its definately thematically fitting and fun

 

I would like to know what passive Youre talking about My good Man?

 

I didnt offer one in My Post nor has anyone here. If You have one feel free to offer Ideas im open ears Homie :)

[NezuHimeSama]

Hell no!

 

We play against Legions, Hordes even. this is too slow and we better off with the current iteration of Bladestorm.

Which is why you speed up the animation and add in more targets per trigger.

[AKKILLA]

Which is why you speed up the animation and add in more targets per trigger.

 

I'd rather current Bladestorm. Shadows of Mordors great but remember, its a solo game. Warframes not.

[AKKILLA]

if i have to manually do bladestorm better a Exalted Bladestorm then a teleport attack aim teleport attack aim again etc...

 

Did You see this video?

you cant tell me Manics dont resemble Ashs Bladestorm? You dont think if Ash could attack and move and be controlled like this it would be great?

[NezuHimeSama]

Being a solo game has nothing to do with the mechanic. It's how bladestorm should have worked in the first place, it's what the move looks like in practice already, it's how I thought it worked when I first tried using it, and replacing it with another channeling superweapon is not only boring and samey, but the proposed mechanics of said superweapon put it far above every other superweapon in the game.

 

Ash is already one of the dumbest frames in the game, mechanically. I'd rather that moveset become something clever/unique within the game/active.

Edited February 6, 2016 by NezuHimeSama

[AKKILLA]

Being a solo game has nothing to do with the mechanic. It's how bladestorm should have worked in the first place, it's what the move looks like in practice already, it's how I thought it worked when I first tried using it, and replacing it with another channeling superweapon is not only boring and samey, but the proposed mechanics of said superweapon put it far above every other superweapon in the game.

 

Ash is already one of the dumbest frames in the game, mechanically. I'd rather that moveset become something clever/unique within the game/active.

 

if you say so lol 

 

seems like you have fans cheering you on lol who spies on this thread to give you 1 like? xD

 

well.... since your word counts and this idea i worked hard on is boring and samey lets let it die and give you the spot light on Bladestorm. 

Or, we can let others read and try to enjoy my hard research and effort towards the hardest ultimate to rework in game.

 

I still think my idea is fantastic even tho you dont :D thanks for stoppin by sir 

[NezuHimeSama]

I didn't even know this forum had likes.

Huh.

[AKKILLA]

Check next to Multiquote and Quote xD You got Cheerleaders B lol

[AKKILLA]

This thread shouldnt be over looked since I see more Ash threads using Copy Pasted ideas and dont explain it as well as I did or wrote it out as detailed or with eplanation as I gave.

 

This explains Bladestorm better then the Shadow Strike which is also slow. This is more like an unlimited Finisher with Drain as I intend on reworking Bladestorm but with alot more speed and his known clones ofcoarse

 

[AKKILLA]

Hello Fellow Tenno

 

I hope You guys are hungry?

 

Because today You're in for a Treat!

 

I have done research for a while in forums and never really made a thread till now this is my second thread.

 

Soo I figure You guys are Starving and Noone can go fight the forces of Evil on an Empty Stomach! X_X

 

As the Title Implies that is Your Main Coarse soo I will serve You appetizers (Ash entire kit)  before feeding You the entree.

 

Without further a due....

 

SHURIKEN

-should scale off of 1 weapon mod type for a slight dmg increase (secondary/melee)

 

-casting animation is lack luster and we cant see anything but a trajectory, what are we throwing?

 

-Aesthetic purposes, can we make it appear like a spectered galive, or exalted glaive as you guys call it?

 

SMOKE SCREEN

-AoE Smoke Bomb, that chokes and stuns enemies, opening them to Finisher kills

 

-The duration is fine, but dont hinder us to sitting in the Cloud, Ash is Lethal and Elusive not a sitting duck

 

-Increase the Clouds range a bit for some CC and access to late Smoke Shadow for Allies

 

TELEPORT

-Free-aim Short range Teleport (SHORT RANGED) maybe 5-10-15m's at most

 

-Smoke Bomb on Targeted Teleports, guaranteeing our Finisher Kills, the smoke bomb only stuns the enemy you targeted

 

Hope Your still Hungry?

 

Heres Your Main coarse Tenno!

 

ADDED SLIGHT CHANGES

 

BLADE STORM

Cast animation- Ash summons his shadow clones, lights flicker similar to Stalker/Acolytes then *POOF* disappears within clouds of smoke.

 

Aesthetic purposes only, a Fan artist (Fulcrvm) designed this as a Oni Helm but we came to the conclusion Ash morphing into this form in Blade storm by being consumed by Dark Void energy is something i wanted to consider it

 

-Ash is rendered Invisible in Blade storm while stationary or moving and not attacking and appears visually similar to Grineer Manics invisibility. Energy drains moderately according to mod set up.(Duration+Efficiency)

 

-Movement speed is increased and parkour capabilities as well, wall latch is infinite/ or can drain more energy as well as aim-glide is increased.

 

-Ash may take damage while invisible and not attacking

 

-When You attack Ash/Clones reveal themselves breaking invisibility emerging from smoke bombs, Ash/Clones attack the same enemy simultaneously. The enemy under attack can only be damaged by Ash and is highlighted in a Red tint as now

 

-When Ash attacks and is revealed he is rendered Invincible as current Blade storm and deals the same damage as now (Finisher/Slash/Bleed proc)

 

-Blade storm scales off of Melee weapon mods (Slash/Finisher/Attack Speed mods only) Strictly to Bladestorms damage

 

-Blade storm can attack Manics as well as Bosses (Vor/etc) no more Glitch cam and fire and forget, Hello interactivity

 

-Casting Shuriken Ash/Clones throw 2 each (6 shurikens) that have punchthrough and drain moderate energy on casts

 

-Smoke Screen provides invis as well as CC for Blade storm, enemies within the AoE Cloud are highlighted in red tint

 

-Free-aim Teleport range is slightly further and drops small smoke bomb with free-aim teleport as well as targeted teleport

 

-Kills dismember enemies like any slash weapons do because (Finsher/Slash Damage) He is a NInja why not?

 

-Stealth Kill Affinity Bonus is achieved in Blade Storm as long as You remain undetected to enemies

 

-Toggle to activate and reactivate

 

All Stance Ultimates have combos so this will have combos as well. All the attacks will look and feel fast and elusive Ash/Clones appearing and disappearing from smoke bombs Slashing and striking in an Omnislash style

 

This idea is influenced from tryna farm regular Ash from Mr.Manic. I was just thinking of how Manics act, the disappear and reappear and there attacks are swift lethal elusive strikes with dash and small smoke clouds as we know thats how we are able to somewhat detect these pesky creatures location to wp them. Being that we are forced to Farm Regular Ash thru them I wanted to adopt some similarities into Blade storm as well as gather some influence from Stalker in the Casting animation (Lights Flicker) aesthetically since Ash is an Assassin this effect I think would look cool.

 

BLADE STORM COMBOS

Assassins Barrage-E, E, E, E, E, E, E

 

Dark Torment-E, E, pause E, E, E, E, E

 

Feudal War Cry-E, ^+E, E, E, E, E, 1 (Projects small radial Shuriken burst)

 

Raging Vengeance-E (Hold)E,  E, E, E, (Hold)E

 

Oni's Blood Lust-(Hold momentarily, then release) E

 

Shadow Betrayal-(During Knee Slide) E

 

Storm of Dragons-(In Air) E

 

Crimson Skies-(During Wall Dash) E

 

Shinobi's Ritual-(Aiming at Downed Enemy) E

 

Now that I fed Yall the main coarse heres a special treat.... DESSERT!

 

I think screen shots and videos along with gif's are a nice way of expressing a topic and giving the readers a visual picture soo i wanted to show You this video I came across, now I want you to see how the Grineer Manic acts and functions even tho im sure you are familiar check out how Lethal and Elusive these runts are! Seems similar to a Blade storm soo I wanted to emphasize this concept around them in a way.

 

Well Thanx for stopping by and I hope You enjoyed Your meal. Hopefully You enjoyed and it was to Your taste. If not atleast know I feed You something healthy and You will have strength to combat the evil forces in the Galaxy Tenno.

 

Stay on Your Guard Tenno!

Re-edited Topic and will add more info show more support guys

[AKKILLA]

Thread name changed and forums were Refreshed lets get this back up top and make it a Popular Topic Guys :D

Please show support and gimme credit

[AKKILLA]

Added Passives to Ash hope You like

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

On 2/3/2016 at 4:32 PM, AKKILLA said:

*snip*

Ok, here goes Killa,

I like just about everything here and most mirror my ideas almost exactly.

Let's start...

Passive Idea: Love this. I would call it Martial Constitution or Calisthenics or something like that. I think that this makes sense seeing as Ash is the most ninja-ish. I wold make these changes.

• Innate Handspring.
• Increased Fire Rate with Silent Weapons (Bows & Thrown Weapons).
• Increased Attack Speed (or damage) with Kitana-type weapons (Excal is the knight frame, Ash is the ninja frame... this makes sense).

Shuriken: I like the visual tweak to that spectral glaive. That new throwing animation is cool too, but I think the Hikou Prime Throwing Mechanic would be the way to go for speed and efficiency.

Smoke Screen: We have the exact same idea. 

Teleport: I like that Path of Shadows video. That is the same teleport concept as my Shinobi video, only the Path ninja turns black and shadowed, while Shinobi just goes straight up invisible.  Again, we basically want the same thing here, Grineer Manic Ash, except my version adds in a bit more specifics and functionality.

Blade Storm: This is the big one. As far as specifics, I don't got none. Where we do agree, though, is that Ash's new ultimate, in/with our new kit of abilities, should be something that works as an enhancement to all of his other moves, something like ninja magic (ninjutsu), etc.