Ash Rework (Straw poll)

[KotoKuraken]

I have an idea: 

Hold 4 to summon copies of yourself to take out enemies for you. For example, you're behind cover. Low and behold, there is a giant group of enemies you want to take out silently, so you tap 4 and your copies do the Bladestorm for you. You do not intervene, but your copies will have annihilated anything with a certain radius of where you summoned them. Think Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood style.

Then tapping 4 would enter a drain energy phase, where as soon as you can see your target, you dash forward into a powerful stab. You would be able to keep dashing and stabbing from enemy to enemy so long as you manually target them. You would be able to use the alternate fire to summon your copies to take care of a group of enemies while in this state. That could lead to some strategy, so that you can tell your copies to unalive one group while you take out another group in the opposite direction.

[AKKILLA]

1 hour ago, KotoKuraken said:

I have an idea: 

Hold 4 to summon copies of yourself to take out enemies for you. For example, you're behind cover. Low and behold, there is a giant group of enemies you want to take out silently, so you tap 4 and your copies do the Bladestorm for you. You do not intervene, but your copies will have annihilated anything with a certain radius of where you summoned them. Think Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood style.

Then tapping 4 would enter a drain energy phase, where as soon as you can see your target, you dash forward into a powerful stab. You would be able to keep dashing and stabbing from enemy to enemy so long as you manually target them. You would be able to use the alternate fire to summon your copies to take care of a group of enemies while in this state. That could lead to some strategy, so that you can tell your copies to unalive one group while you take out another group in the opposite direction.

Na this is way better

Sending out clones to do the Bladestorm and taking Ash away from the Rampage is wack IMO. But thanks for the idea. Check My thread I made a full Ash thread.

PS: I posted a Assassins Creed Smoke Screen Im sure You will Love that check it out

Edited March 17, 2016 by AKKILLA

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Forgive me if I was unclear. My problem with your proposal wasn't that it lacked interactivity, but more that stance ults are getting really repetitive and generic.

We already have Hysteria, Exalted Blade, and Primal Fury, which would be the same ability if it weren't for a couple little bells and whistles given to each of them (Hysteria's god mode, Exalted Blade's waves, Primal Fury's reach). What's worse is that not only are these the only things that make them different from each other, but they're also what separates them from regular melee combat-- Without these extra effects, they'd just be regular melee weapons, only astronomically more powerful. There's also little to no reason to ever toggle them off.

To be fair, Blade Storm right now can be boiled down to a radial nuke with a target limit, but I don't really approve of trading one generic copy/paste ult for another. Taking Exalted Blade as a template and giving it a ninja-themed atmosphere won't add anything new to the game, and would really feel like a missed opportunity.

Astronomically stronger?! Does body count ring a bell? These mods killed ability melee as they got excludet...it wasn't even stronger in the first place...

Eb couldn't and still can't generate combo and Hysteria+primal fury are missing combo multipliers on theyr stance...they have litteraly no benefit over regular melee, and melee got a MASSIVE buff...these small effects (invincibility and punch trough) are the only reson to EVER use them over regular melee... and as i like this topic: saryn as one of the recently best reworked frames scales perfectly from the current melee... i'd rather move away from this bs then screwing up ash as well.

Edited March 17, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[AKKILLA]

1 hour ago, Gurpgork said:

Forgive me if I was unclear. My problem with your proposal wasn't that it lacked interactivity, but more that stance ults are getting really repetitive and generic.

We already have Hysteria, Exalted Blade, and Primal Fury, which would be the same ability if it weren't for a couple little bells and whistles given to each of them (Hysteria's god mode, Exalted Blade's waves, Primal Fury's reach). What's worse is that not only are these the only things that make them different from each other, but they're also what separates them from regular melee combat-- Without these extra effects, they'd just be regular melee weapons, only astronomically more powerful. There's also little to no reason to ever toggle them off.

To be fair, Blade Storm right now can be boiled down to a radial nuke with a target limit, but I don't really approve of trading one generic copy/paste ult for another. Taking Exalted Blade as a template and giving it a ninja-themed atmosphere won't add anything new to the game, and would really feel like a missed opportunity.

Nah bro, I definetly dont agree, another Exalted abilities not redundant I have heard this same ignorant comment months ago when Koga made this type of rework 4-5 months ago.

Before PRIMAL FURY even existed this Exalted ability was brewing in the Shadows, here take a look. He even tried making collabs with other guys and artists to design this rework and even made a Helm design he wanted it to be Ashs appearance in Bladestorm, not sure if that will happen maybe a Tennogen Helm. Heres the thread.

These ideas where well out before Primal Fury and Koga made a thread motivated by the Devstream on the link. A stance Bladestorm would work in soo many ways.

It would fit his theme better and be the best avenue to rework Ash as a whole and his Bladestorm in a sense. Keeping Him as the main protagonist of Bladestorm instead of making clones do it all or keepin its current iteration, press 4 and watch is not a solution. I know people complain about Stance Ultimates but Bladestorm is as good as Old Peacemaker except its more Automatic, atleast Old Peacemaker You would need to click the mouse but the shots were aim-bot.

Bladestorm is currently that, Press 4 and He does Ninja Gaidens Ultimate Technique, except it looks bad.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

9 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Nah bro, I definetly dont agree, another Exalted abilities not redundant I have heard this same ignorant comment months ago when Koga made this type of rework 4-5 months ago.

Before PRIMAL FURY even existed this Exalted ability was brewing in the Shadows, here take a look. He even tried making collabs with other guys and artists to design this rework and even made a Helm design he wanted it to be Ashs appearance in Bladestorm, not sure if that will happen maybe a Tennogen Helm. Heres the thread.

These ideas where well out before Primal Fury and Koga made a thread motivated by the Devstream on the link. A stance Bladestorm would work in soo many ways.

It would fit his theme better and be the best avenue to rework Ash as a whole and his Bladestorm in a sense. Keeping Him as the main protagonist of Bladestorm instead of making clones do it all or keepin its current iteration, press 4 and watch is not a solution. I know people complain about Stance Ultimates but Bladestorm is as good as Old Peacemaker except its more Automatic, atleast Old Peacemaker You would need to click the mouse but the shots were aim-bot.

Bladestorm is currently that, Press 4 and He does Ninja Gaidens Ultimate Technique, except it looks bad.

Yeah sure, except it would not. 3 radial hit would make room for one hit at once, ranged targeting would be replaced with the strong NEED to tap targets.

Ash would become a saryn clone, only WORSE.

[AKKILLA]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Astronomically stronger?! Does body count ring a bell? These mods killed ability melee.

I honestly dont know what Gurpgork is talkin abbout. Some of You, No offense are missing some srews B lol

But really Primal Fury came out after the Bladestorm Stance Ulti concept came about, even (DE)Rebecca mentioned it on Devstream 60 and thats when Koga came to Me with this concept and made it a thread. When I heard his full idea it made perfect sense and sounded like it fit Ashs theme even tho its some what a copy pasted meta of Stance Drain Ulti's. Fitting his theme as elusive and lethal, along with adding synergy through the use of Death Marks and taking advantage of the Bleed Procs to add synergy to his kit and allow Ash the fast paced mobility Bladestorm offers automatically.

The problem here is most of You are afraid of change, especially when its something You have little knowledge of, You fear the imposed concept will ruin what exists already. Change must be made whether it helps or ruins it, we can only offer good ideas and hope DE do a good job. Only reworks i seen go bad were Mesa and Saryns tbh. Saryns isnt Terrible they just made everything else great and Miasma trash again.

[AKKILLA]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Yeah sure, except it would not. 3 radial hit would make room for one hit at once, ranged targeting would be replaced with the strong NEED to tap targets.

Ash would become a saryn clone, only WORSE.

You have no idea what You are saying.

Ash would be this basically

 

Do You not have any creativity? Come on I know if You love Ash you must play other Ninja games like this. This is basically Bladestorm in EVERY sense of the word. Tell Me Im wrong? If You believe Im wrong then you must be smoking some astronomical weed like Gurpgork lol jkjk

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

39 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

You have no idea what You are saying.

Ash would be this basically

 

Do You not have any creativity? Come on I know if You love Ash you must play other Ninja games like this. This is basically Bladestorm in EVERY sense of the word. Tell Me Im wrong? If You believe Im wrong then you must be smoking some astronomical weed like Gurpgork lol jkjk

You are wrong. There you have it. Melee influence was a pretty decent base for scaling in its early stage but it kinda overshadowed melee so DE fixed that part and gave it the possibility to indeed scale astronomical. Ever seen a excal hit for 90-100k damage without the stealth multiplier? Well i did see guys hit for this value with zoren. To come back to saryn, she sets ~50% of this value as poison, gains additional 100% of the original damage by destroying spores, per dot, per spore and spreads a percentage of the final number as radial dot...hitting enemys to gain radial damage...does this sound familiar? Now, saryns base are the mentioned 90k damage, tjis damage gets MULTIPLIED with evry hit. 25% are spread by default, affected by strength, this scales up by EVRY HIT and is spread to 4 enemys, setting a base for further damage and triggerable by your whole squad, what makes these astronimicall numbers spread like a wildfire... ash would do essencially the same, low ranged spreadet damage on the horric base of channeled melee with less enemys per hit, less effect, less damage then spores and no squad utility whatsoever and that is supposed to be perfect? Like it or not but the large scaled nuke on finisher base WORKS FOR HIM.

 

Noone here is afraid of change, we are just not stup*d enough to ask for NERFS. Cause that is exactly what this is, a nerf.

Edited March 17, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

He would gain damage, what he does not need (probably, given that DE keeps the finisher damage) in trade for utility, what he desperately needs more of...what's the point? How is this a positive change for him?

Edited March 17, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[AKKILLA]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

 Like it or not but the large scaled nuke on finisher base WORKS FOR HIM.

Noone here is afraid of change, we are just not stup*d enough to ask for NERFS. Cause that is exactly what this is, a nerf.

It works but its not great at all. Its actually bad and there are other folks who dont like it.

It breeds a lazy game play with no type of interaction and no synergy.

You obviously dont seem to want to open your mind to new concepts, especially a good one but thats You. It shows thru Your reply You are being ignorant and close minded

Dont be like that, You are one of the Old PS4 Ash fans who has been around showing love to Ash ideas, dont hate on this concept blindly.

Idk how you compared this with Saryn but in a way this new idea will work with Bleed DoTs and Teleports to get around rapidly and kill enemies. I call it DEATH MARKS

Scaling the damage off of Melee Mods and keeping its same damage output will in fact be a BUFF because Ash will now Shred thru single targets faster dealing Finisher damage and scaling and Ash+2Clones attacking the same target simultaneously will project more damage to one unit at a time ultimately killing them in 1-2 hits depending on enemies level.

[AKKILLA]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

He would gain damage, what he does not need (probably, given that DE keeps the finisher damage) in trade for utility, what he desperately needs more of...what's the point? How is this a positive change for him?

Have You even read My rework? 

IDK how thats not a great concept. It will scale in damage late game. Have You ever Bladestormed a Eximus lv 80 up? Its annoying getting trapped in those endless Bladestorm animations, and I dont agree with keeping it the same and adding a toggle to cancel it out. That would be cheating our self out of a potentially great ultimate

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

8 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

It works but its not great at all. Its actually bad and there are other folks who dont like it.

It breeds a lazy game play with no type of interaction and no synergy.

You obviously dont seem to want to open your mind to new concepts, especially a good one but thats You. It shows thru Your reply You are being ignorant and close minded

Dont be like that, You are one of the Old PS4 Ash fans who has been around showing love to Ash ideas, dont hate on this concept blindly.

Idk how you compared this with Saryn but in a way this new idea will work with Bleed DoTs and Teleports to get around rapidly and kill enemies. I call it DEATH MARKS

Scaling the damage off of Melee Mods and keeping its same damage output will in fact be a BUFF because Ash will now Shred thru single targets faster dealing Finisher damage and scaling and Ash+2Clones attacking the same target simultaneously will project more damage to one unit at a time ultimately killing them in 1-2 hits depending on enemies level.

Not on aspects that work splendit. No, it would only be a buff fighting lvl 500 eximus units in a nightmare mission while nerfing his overall performance to evrything below this. I'm in for change any day, given that it's actually positive in a way. This is not.

Even this DE inspired(?) concept that would free him off the animation and just release clones that do the BS for him is a MASSIVE buff compared to this, opening him to active melee gameplay (even forcing him to) while keeping melee and the radial damage in the game. That's positive change, this is EXACTLY what his BS needs. Not this. And not more desperately then a buff to his kit.

Edited March 17, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[AKKILLA]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Not on aspects that work splendit. No, it would only be a buff fighting lvl 500 eximus units in a nightmare mission while nerfing his overall performance to evrything below this. I'm in for change any day, given that it's actually positive in a way. This is not.

Even this DE inspired(?) concept that would free him off the animation and just release clones that do the BS for him is a MASSIVE buff compared to this, opening him to active melee gameplay (even forcing him to) while keeping melee and the radial damage in the game. That's positive change, this is EXACTLY what he needs imo.

I disagree to an extent.

You are clearly a Kill streak junky. is this what You look for?

Most kills least damage taken most damage dealt? Come on we already been doing that. I have played Ash in groups with other Ashs and its kinda annoying when You cant kill enemies because another Ash is Bladestorming them. Although I can join in on the Tag Team Bladestorm like if it were a Ninja Gang initiation, i think Bladestorm is annoying although I love it aesthetically I must watch the Trailer to get My Ninja crack fix on how it should actually look because our in game predecessor is cancerous. Its like having cancer and dealing with it.

Na Bra, Ima go get Treatment thank You very much.

Again idk how Changing Bladestorm to a Stance Ultimate that works like Ryu Hayabusas Ultimate Technique Bad, if DE in all actuality made Bladestorm exactly that.

Ninja Gaidens Ultimate Combo

PS: that was todays Rifle Only Sortie

Edited March 17, 2016 by AKKILLA

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

11 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Have You even read My rework? 

IDK how thats not a great concept. It will scale in damage late game. Have You ever Bladestormed a Eximus lv 80 up? Its annoying getting trapped in those endless Bladestorm animations, and I dont agree with keeping it the same and adding a toggle to cancel it out. That would be cheating our self out of a potentially great ultimate

Repeadetly. It's not your first thread if i'm not misstaken.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

4 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

I disagree to an extent.

You are clearly a Kill streak junky. is this what You look for?

Most kills least damage taken most damage dealt? Come on we already been doing that. I have played Ash in groups with other Ashs and its kinda annoying when You cant kill enemies because another Ash is Bladestorming them. Although I can join in on the Tag Team Bladestorm like if it were a Ninja Gang initiation, i think Bladestorm is annoying although I love it aesthetically I must watch the Trailer to get My Ninja crack fix on how it should actually look because our in game predecessor is cancerous. Its like having cancer and dealing with it.

Na Bra, Ima go get Treatment thank You very much.

Again idk how Changing Bladestorm to a Stance Ultimate that works like Ryu Hayabusas Ultimate Technique Bad, if DE in all actuality made Bladestorm exactly that.

Ninja Gaidens Ultimate Combo

PS: that was todays Rifle Only Sortie

Isn't that exactly the role of a damage frame?... 

And just immagine the current ash, even the DE reworked ash clearing rooms while ryu runs to them...this would make ninja gaiden hillarious lmao.

[AKKILLA]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Repeadetly. It's not your first thread if i'm not misstaken.

Aaaahh then You are a Fan. lol I have seen your name around alot like an Ash Bladestorming in Draco.

You are one of the many Ash shadow clones bladestorming amuck. Lets Bladestorm in style brother.I dont wish to destroy it, only compliment it. I feel You just want to keep the Radial disaster it provides (NUKE) I would prefer be the one doing the Bladestorm myself. 

This idea came about when hearing Rebecca say Exalted Blade style in Devstream 60 along with the change of Ash drops being farmed by Manics. It kinda made sense when I researched some ideas with Koga about Bladestorm and I came across Manics helping a new member in clan farm Vanilla Ash. It smacked me right dab in the face, then I ran off to wikia and researched Ash/Manics behaviour and came to the conclusion they both behave the same, soo why not make Bladestorm a stance where You are like a Manic in a sense. Elusive and lethal Dashing in and out of combat destroying everything.

Thats why I offered the same damage+melee mod scaling, To wipe $hit out Fast and efficiently. in order to maintain Ashs speedy elusive lethality. This concept even allows berzerker to function in conjunction, adding more dps which i already propose Bladestorm be Lightning Fast like Ninja Gaidens Ulti, Stupid Fast

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Unlikely. I'm a ps4 player as you should be able to see. And i play it synergic with melee (allready offers the pinpoint damage you're looking for on pc), thank you. But no thank you.

Edited March 17, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[AKKILLA]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Isn't that exactly the role of a damage frame?... 

And just immagine the current ash, even the DE reworked ash clearing rooms while ryu runs to them...this would make ninja gaiden hillarious lmao.

Sike asf

Ninja Gaiden moves just like Ash.

All You need to do is Hold down Y (Xbox360) and release it after gathering all the essence orbs and he unleashes a torrent of Bladestorm like combos. The only difference is Ryu focuses on enemies in his LoS, DE specifically made Bladestorm move randomly about the maps which is detrimental to gameplay. Yes it works and Kills the World.

Lets Press 4 and Bladestorm EARTH lol

Not good, Im sure this idea can keep up with current Bladestorm frenzy and save us from Dying of Cancer

[AKKILLA]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Unlikely. I'm a ps4 player as you should be able to see. And i play it synergic with melee (allready offers the pinpoint damage you're looking for on pc), thank you. But no thank you.

Im sure w.e You supposably claim to be synergic we have been running on PC and no Bladestorm has no synergy except with Body Count and Rising Storm which its intended to.

Synergy is when abilities function in conjunction with one another. None of Ashs abilities synergize with one another, My idea adds full synergy as You even mentioned the Saryn analogy.

Except this works with DEATH MARKS which makes sense and is a good indicator for Bladestorm synergy with Teleports+Shuriken+Smoke Screen

[AKKILLA]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Ozone1249953 said:

Won't an exalted weapon ruin trickery?

Did You not read My thread?

All the attacks in the Exalted Bladestorm will still be Finisher attacks, Trickery procs off of Finisher Kills, BTW in the rework concept I mention Bladestorm providing invisibility to Ash when not attacking, You may run freely about in Bladestorm unseen as long as You dont attack. When You attack You break invisibility trading it off for Finisher damage and Invincibility like the current Bladestorm.

To break it down simple.

When You cast Bladestorm Ash goes into this animation.

 

Summoning his Clones in a quick cast then going invisible right after the cast if You dont attack. Ash+Clones disappear in a smoke Puff.

This allows Ash players to be either Stealthy or raise hell in the field Rampaging as the current Bladestorm except You get to do the Killing Yourself, and how You want it.]Using Shuriken in Bladestorm and Smoke Screen along with Teleport to synergy with the 2 others to get around Very Fast using the DEATH MARK concept i created to allow us synergy with Teleport Shuriken and Smoke Screen.

This offers a great interactive play style and ends this Cancerous madness.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

25 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Im sure w.e You supposably claim to be synergic we have been running on PC and no Bladestorm has no synergy except with Body Count and Rising Storm which its intended to.

Synergy is when abilities function in conjunction with one another. None of Ashs abilities synergize with one another, My idea adds full synergy as You even mentioned the Saryn analogy.

Except this works with DEATH MARKS which makes sense and is a good indicator for Bladestorm synergy with Teleports+Shuriken+Smoke Screen

And bladestorming targets far away after you attacked enemys in range, using the trickerey injected stealth and gained combos is not? Operating in 2 areas (DE buff-> at once) is bad in your oppinion?

You sir don't like the animation or the playstyle you set yourself. That's all this comes down to.

[AKKILLA]

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

And bladestorming targets far away after you attacked enemys in range, using the trickerey injected stealth and gained combos is not? Operating in 2 areas (DE buff-> at once) is bad in your oppinion?

You sir don't like the animation or the playstyle you set yourself. That's all this comes down to.

I dont get what You mean exactly? 

Are You speaking of the Rework (DE) Steve mentioned? The Ninja Rumblers? IMO I dont like the concept for one Huge reason and I believe a lot of others didnt like it either because it wil take away Ash from the Bladestorm himself. Thats why Bladestorm wasnt changed yet, DE understand we prefer the ugly Vomit Cam then a Ninja Rumblers ulti.

That would remove Ah from the Ulti and noone wants it. Even a few guys that didnt like My and Koga's idea preferred the Stance Bladestorm over the Ninja Rumblers Steve mentioned

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

34 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

I dont get what You mean exactly? 

Are You speaking of the Rework (DE) Steve mentioned? The Ninja Rumblers? IMO I dont like the concept for one Huge reason and I believe a lot of others didnt like it either because it wil take away Ash from the Bladestorm himself. Thats why Bladestorm wasnt changed yet, DE understand we prefer the ugly Vomit Cam then a Ninja Rumblers ulti.

That would remove Ah from the Ulti and noone wants it. Even a few guys that didnt like My and Koga's idea preferred the Stance Bladestorm over the Ninja Rumblers Steve mentioned

Nah man, i refer to second hand information here, something someone mentioned to be something (probably) steve said...simply bladestorm as it is, wo ash. How i play is using melee (shadow debt brought it to where you want his ult anyways) to kill close targets and i fire bladestorm after i run outa targets, somewhere far away, ideally hitting a spawned wave... BS is strong but essecially slow and has a max number of targets so the most efficient way of using it is weapon gameplay paired with bs as ranged tool as this range and free targeting is the most effective aspect it has. It doesn't have the melee scaling it should have (if only the berserker fix!) But it adds a good buff to melee by adding stealth and combos. It indeeds contibutes in the opposite direction, adding offense and defense to your melee, what's just absolutely perfect allready. Simultaneous blastorming and fighting would simply remove the boundary this kind of playstyle has and therefore add massive utility to him, ideally keeping all the benefits with freedom to choose where you need the hail to destroy your targets.

 

No idea if that's actually what they have in planing but this would fit him very well.

 

A stance would go in the complete opposite direction, buffing damage he allready has enough of and reducing his effective range/mobility (killing enemys on the other side of the map can definitly be consideret mobility as well) which he's lacking.

Edited March 17, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nox-Lamina]

Can't we do better than a stance? We already have 3 melee stance ultimates, why make a fourth?

Why embrace more of the stealth side of Ash and make the ultimate a transformation and change his skills to incap/blind rather than kill. So it'd be activate a drain were Ash turns into smoke and gets a base chance of bullets passing through him. Shuriken becomes a fan of shurikens that immobilize enemies, Smoke bomb becomes an actual smoke bomb to be tossed at enemies which blinds them, and teleport becomes free aim.

Maybe a conditional ult which actually utilizes the wrist blades can be created (Hold 4 while in transformed mode after doing X task) 

[YasaiTsume]

Or we can just ignore them so I can afk and gain Affinity....

What? 

I'm lazy, someone wants to do all the work for me, I'm game.