Oz270 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I don't think the lack of a major objective is a real problem with Warframe. This game was inspired in Mass Effect III multi-player which is still very active today, around one and a half year after its initial release (which is even more amazing considering the development of multi-player content officially ended 3 months ago). ME3 also doesn't have any major objective or goal (each mission is individual, during from 14 to 30 min, and apart from leveling up weapons and classes, there is nothing major to accomplish - pretty much the same thing as with Warframe). The major problem with Warframe lies in its total lack of challenge. This game is way too easy (I should say effortless) after you level up some important mods. I can kill any boss in the game in less than 10s (except Jackal, but that doesn't really matter) using a potatoed Gorgon (with no forma). I can complete any mission (including T2 void) with a mid-level frame and mid-level weapons without dying a single time. The only a little more challenging missions are T3 void, but I can easily solo them with any level 30 frame and my Gorgon. Coming back to Mass Effect III, it has 4 difficult levels. Just a handful of players (and I mean it) are able to solo the higher difficult level and even those who can need several attempts to succeed. Even with a 4 team experienced players and leveled up characters and weapons, the game still presents enough challenge to be fun. So, even if Warframe don't have a major objective, if it presented some major difficulty people would still be playing it months from now. The way it is now, there is simply no incentive at all: why would I build/level up my Supra and add Forma(s) to it if I can easily solo any mission and kill everything with a standard Braton/Boltor/Gorgon (or almost any other weapon)? I remeber the best time with ME3's multiplayer is trying to exctract under heavy fire, now that was fun and challenging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASH_PRIME Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Waframe DOES have an objective...Have a kick4ss, awesome good time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qb3rt Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) Waframe DOES have an objective... Have a kick4ss, awesome good time I had a kicka4ss, awesome good time the first time I did a Molten Core raid in WoW, even the 2nd, 3rd, and 10th time ... eventually it became a repetitive bore, going through the motions to get that one drop I'd waited so long for. When it finally dropped, the most important question at that point was "What now? What do I use it for" ... luckily WoW had plenty of plans lined up for further things to do and other challenges. That game gave meaning to getting a drop beyond the journey to acquire it allowing players a sense of accomplishment WHILE having fun doing so. Eventually though, players caught up way too fast with content, the raids were farmed ad nauseum and the game began being referred to as a chore ... nobody enjoyed any of the raids anymore, even those that wanted loot ... but there was still the understanding that there would be a further objective to make use of previous progression that kept players from quitting. In addition, there was PvP as an outlet of 'infinite content' since human opponents are inherently unpredictable. I personally gave up on raiding in WoW in lieu of PvP because the grinding that was fun once wasn't fun anymore and the content was slow to release. The existence of another outlet of progression was what was important though ... I'M NOT ADVOCATING ADDING PVP TO WARFRAME. The point I'm trying to make is that the concept of excessive farming without any known future goal is infectuous; it is a cancer on any game that designs itself as such. If the most loyal, dedicated, accomplished and experienced players begin fleeing your game with a bad taste in their mouth, full of regrets, and leaving behind nothing but negative feedback ... history has consistently shown that when that happens it trickles down to every other player down the progression ladder. Those closest to acquiring everything they wanted will be less apt to do so, those feeling any fading in their enjoyment of the game are going to have that feeling amplified and vindicated. Lack of direction is like a relentless rash, and when players begin reaching the limits of loot that rash is itched. When it is itched, it spreads... and if you let it spread too much it becomes irrecoverable. I don't want Warframe to make that simple mistake of pretending that they can have their cake and eat it too; that they can build a game around progressive PvE loot farming and expect it to exist indefinitely on the merits of being "fun to play", because no PvE game is fun forever .... especially not when it is as &*$$genous and minimalistic as Warframe's missions currently are. Edited June 15, 2013 by Qb3rt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahruvel Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 New Primary Objective: Don't do the objective. Just head to extraction. If Lotus asks, tell her to shut up and come help next time if she wants you to do her dirty work. The lazy sod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PliwoFactor Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Waframe DOES have an objective... Have a kick4ss, awesome good time Eventually you'll find lack of challenge and it won't be kickass or awesome ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qb3rt Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 I still have hope for this game, and for a while longer I will keep coming back with hope it finds its way..... but there are soooo many great games to play in this golden age of gaming that DE needs to beware of strangling the golden goose. I will bump this for as long as I still have hope for this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr0cessor Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Out of curiosity how's PvP in D3? hmmmmmm??? It's crap (and you know this). That's why I hope DE introduce cooperative PvP with teams of 4 vs 4. That way it provides players with a competitive atmosphere but is still a cooperative experience. 1vs1 just doesn't cut it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qb3rt Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 Competitive PvE would be fine as a compromise ... have no problem with this game being solely PvE .... but the complete lack of a point to anything is unsettling. Humans need goals to be motivated to do something. This game has no goals beyond "OK, now acquire this trivially different weapon". Competitive PvE is a concept SOOO un-explored in the realm of gaming that it is begging to be explored, yet we keep getting offered nothing but carrots because that's what pays the bills I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishworshipper Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 This is one of the few threads actually worth necroing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichmar Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 So I feel compelled to remind folks that DE is producing endgame content for Warframe. They're under the wire to have everything produced before the launch of PS4, and there's a lot to get done: Warframes Weapons Music Tilesets Sound effects Story for 13 planets (we're getting one in U9) Probably a lot of voice acting (not just Tennobecca) UI overhauls Changes to other various game systems Major balance overhauls and then endgame content. All of this needs to be done within half a year. They're working folks, just hang in there. I understand if you feel bored and without an objective -- I feel the same way. I'm just biding my time waiting for content updates, because I know that one of them is going to focus on endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameoverman Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Last time I felt challenged by the game was wave 65 of xini, because we were fighting something that could handle our weapons and keep coming. Wave 65 that's level 330 ancients I'm still having fun with the game but that level gap does make me worry a little bit about what DE could do to give me a challenge, endgame-wise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessicaMeanie Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 EndGame content for a game that seems more fun to just play without hititng a wall that says you are the strongest Mo Fo out here? i don't know why you would want that. Story wise, i'd love to hear more about the universe but endgame which you complete and decide where the gameis no longer very fun because you are the strongest Tennos? (excuse me if i'm not thinking of endgame like you all are, never gotten to the endgame in any game at all.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuroraSonicBoom Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 The very short and lacking progression is something that drew me to Warframe in the first place. The moment they start doing the MMO gear treadmill thing I'm out. Forma is as close to grindy stat progression as I want to get. Ramping up stats on enemies is not something I'm interested challenge wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazrd Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 People still play this game when there isn't a log in reward to be had or a half decent alert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazrd Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 This is the reason why Betas in the past didn't allow the public, cause people DONT understand that because they are playing the game it doesnt mean it's finished. Like Steve said... what did WoW have when it was released? WoW had lore content and a rabid fan base from the RTS game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafilgar Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 This is a casual game. It doesn't really need "end-game" content. It just needs a good never ending story that'll keep the players interested. It would be awesome if DE makes a lore thats unlockable through bosses. You kill a boss and it exposes more cutscenes to the lore. Kind of like Mass Effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidWraith Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 the latest livestream they had, said that they are going to put in story. like and actual story progression for each planet and so forth. but their going to input it slowly and such, and reworking some bosses while they do it, starting with captain vor in the first planet, mercury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderOG Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Pvp would fix this IMO, the people that want end game will play it, the people that are happy with the game how it is, will just stick to pve, and everyone will be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryaneko Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 This is a casual game. It doesn't really need "end-game" content. It just needs a good never ending story that'll keep the players interested. It would be awesome if DE makes a lore thats unlockable through bosses. You kill a boss and it exposes more cutscenes to the lore. Kind of like Mass Effect this makes me sad. go play single player games please. i dont want to watch movies. i want to play and i dont want to play the same 6 missions with the same 9 enemys over and over again. this game needs some sort of endgame challenge. and by that i dont mean another boss with x200 hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flunky Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 The very short and lacking progression is something that drew me to Warframe in the first place. The moment they start doing the MMO gear treadmill thing I'm out. Forma is as close to grindy stat progression as I want to get. Ramping up stats on enemies is not something I'm interested challenge wise. i assume you quit playing about two planets in then because that's about how long it takes to see 95% of the content this game has that isn't more of the same monsters with +3 stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flunky Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 any lore this game has is going to make a star trek novel look like moby $&*^, please don't add cut scenes or even try to write a story beyond "kill these guys" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holdenmcclure Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 This game isn't designed around the concept of an "end game". I hear that phrase tossed around a lot. Warframe has no "end game". What exactly does that mean? If we look at it fairly literally we can it means "the end of the game". The developers don't want that and I don't think you actually want it either. The philosophy behind this game's design is procedurally generated tilesets, semi randomized conditions and spawn waves, a variety of resources needed from a variety of nodes to craft a variety of weapons. Ranging node difficulty and constantly refreshed equipment to encourage players to play nodes with enemies correlating to their current equipment rank, etc... The idea behind a clear end game, a finale if you will, is counterproductive to the design philosophy this game has. Rather than simply playing the same end game mission(s) over and over again whence you reach a level suitable for completing it, they encourage you consistently visit a variety of locations in order to break the inanity if not masque it at the very least. However the devs have a finite amount of people working on this project and as it stands it's currently considered open beta. Though the game encourages you to visit a variety of locations, the feeling of repetition is still felt through reused tilesets, enemies and objectives on different planets and nodes. Remember though that the developers are retroactively adding variety to existing missions, IE adding new tilesets to old nodes (Grineer Galleon), replacing old placeholder bosses for more fleshed out creative ones or improving their skill set, etc... Honestly, it feels as though this "endgame" people percieve as a viable option is just a pipe dream, and in this dream the content will never get stale or repetitive. People have unrealistic expectations for these types of games. It can and most certainly will get stale and repetitive as any game will with enough time invested into it. Take a break, wait for a new content update, experience what it has to offer, otherwise enjoy a variety of other games in between that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsDraven Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 If you want a story mode play Dark Sector, its all about story mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles_Swingles Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Well, collecting warframes and weapons has been the objective for me. But i admit that Ive grown pretty tired of the game... just waiting for updates and login awards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altissimus Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 how could someone not agree? that's why all the updates worry me, they add more guns, and what's the point? what the hell are we supposed to do with those guns? Shoot things. Wait...was this a test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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