It's Worrisome That This Game Still Has No Objective

[JusticeJack]

Let's try to compare this game to another one with some similar feature :

Monster hunter : Objective?becoming level 9999999999, farming thousands of materials from bosses and spent hours of fun.
While it's understandable than lots of players want a final goal, for games like this it's very hard or almost impossible to have that.
An endgame (Dojo, a real dojo of few frends, not a HUGE dojo of who knows just for enjoying it without grinding the materials) is probably the closest thing we will get, and i am happy with it.

Hell,even other games,completely differet : TF2 :No goals, no final objective, NO FARMING.(Exept just for trading cosmetics wich doesn't affect at all gameplay) and yet is extremely enjoyable.

TLDR :
Some games needs a final goal.Mostly they are single player oriented.Some games are about fun,escaping from life just for a little momentand slashing baddies up.These don't need any kind of "ending".

[DAwGi]

Totally agree with OP.  It needs an endgame, or, dare I say it, PVP.

[Pr0cessor]

Right now it's all about bashing bots all day. It needs more to it than that. *coughs* 4vs4 PvP or entirely new game modes

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

I agree with OP too! This game needs an endgame PvE and / Or PvP, i hope DE will read this thread

[Pendragon1951]

I agree with the Op to a certain point, story content is important and repetition can get very boring after a while, but one thing about this game that I have enjoyed is the PVE. I'm a 62 yr old guy who normally doesn't play PVP games because to be honest i'm not very good at it, but in this game I have been able to hold my own. Grinding is a pain in the a@#$ and I do understand that this game is in Beta, but some kind of story content would be great and I am hoping with U9 that will be taken care of. In someone elses post they mentioned about identifying better with the different characters and this is where I have to agree. I would love being able to somehow customize other than color my warframe to make it really my own. In any story it is the characters that keep you coming back to read more so as I said I am hoping in U9 we will get that.

[Pendragon1951]

One other thing I've realized after reading all these posts and the mention of ME3 is how very similar they are, I have not played ME3 but I may try it out, but the resemblance is a bit amazing:)

[Grotto19]

I agree with what many have said above about the need for more content. I also agree that we must recognise that it is stil in beta and there may be a great deal of content being saved for release. But something did occur to me before and came to mind again today. I find for me that what I love about these games IS the constant grind and gradual improvement allowing me to get to the next challange. And that what turns me off of these games is reaching the point where I can’t really improve much more (or it takes insanely long to get any beter), or reaching a point where I can do everything and have no need to get stronger.

 

I believe a very easy fix to keep people like myself playing for a year or even longer would simply be to eliminate capping on progression, having it instead get progressively a little slower. And eliminating the cap on difficulty. Just keep adding another planet with even higher levels. As long is there is one planet out there that I can not conquer, yet I could if I just get a little stronger. And I have the means to get a little stronger. I will probably keep going indefinitely.

 

 Note the Diablo method if re hashing the exact same missions in a new difficulty does not really work, even though it is in many ways the same thing it gives an artificial and pointless feel. Obviously some players will vastly outstrip the others and be stuck with nothing to do but I think as long as 95% of the players have missions they can’t quite handle yet the team will have doen very well at keeping us busy.

 

Hoenstly since this game ultimately is a numbers game this should not be that hard to impliment. The only problems I see is abilities would have to be re tooled to continue being useful against high level content, and new rarer mods would need to be added to keep us chasing that carrot on a stick. Also a few powers might need a downgrade to prevent dramatic challenge shifting(Frosts Snowglobe, Nyx Chaos etc).

 

 I know I would click the link past outer terminus that takes me to the next planet set (ranging from levels 50-100) and as long as I keep getting mods, weapons and frames that allow to handle those missions I will eventually click the link at the last planet in that set that takes me to the next one. I think many of you are like me in this regard. Perhaps we would eventually get tired of it, but be honest how many of you, just like me, played this game feverishly until you could easily clear pluto? If that is the case is it possible that with more plannets in our path we would not even be having this discussion yet because we would all still be franticly shooting bad guys right now?

[alocrius]

Pro-tip. It's a Beta. And they have massive plans for this game, if you'd watch the livestreams you'd know.

Pro-tip, I've watched all the livestreams and they absolutely have no massive plans to radicalize game content. They are talking about new factions and adding a little lore with the next boss rework. There is nothing in the foreseeable future to stave off a mass exodus due to RDMS(Repetitive Dissociative Mission Syndrome). From the livestreams they are going to dribble out more of the same and when they do it's still going to be problematic because the mission system they have in place is obsolete and offers no challenge and very limited replayability for purposes other than farming. New bosses and factions are going to be stale almost as soon as they come out because of the simplistic arcade shooter game design. Just like the void was (after the initial wow factor for cool art direction).

DE have committed to game content that only ties in to their monetization system. They don't seem to understand the primary reason for playing the game should be because its fun. They have really missed the boat despite tons of great community feedback. Another pro-tip. This game isn't beta. If all they are going to do is side-grades of factions, bosses, weapons and warframes then this is the complete game model. Maybe in a year or so after all the PS4 money they will ante up with some new radical game content. Most of us will have moved on.

If they suddenly crank out several new exciting game modes I will happily eat my shorts and revoke all my snarky comments. My overall conspiratorial sensibilities however, warn me that DE is afraid if the game is too fun to play on it's own merit then they won't make any money. Hence only the grind gets updated rather than gameplay. I can't think of a logical reason why they would ignore updating gameplay anyway. Edited June 28, 2013 by alocrius

[DaddysHome]

PS4 launch will still be beta ...

 

it will stay beta forever

 

at least at the rate things are going

[Aishi]

I really feel the PS4 launch was too ambitious.

You're trying to port a game in beta over to a massive console as a release title.

Guess where priorities are gonna lie.

[Pr0cessor]

I really feel the PS4 launch was too ambitious.

You're trying to port a game in beta over to a massive console as a release title.

Guess where priorities are gonna lie.

 

I fear this as well. While DE claim that the PS4 movement is a good thing, I beg to differ.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

i assume you quit playing about two planets in then because that's about how long it takes to see 95% of the content this game has that isn't more of the same monsters with +3 stats

 

Hurr Durr, yes, I quit 2 missions into the game.

 

What you apparently don't realize is that a game is more than the sum of its parts, and that simply focusing on adding new maps and modifying existing game mechanics has far less replayability compared to adding new mechanics to the pool of the already existing ones.

This isn't a black and white issue, where you can say "never add new maps", "always add new mechanics", or "never increase mob health/power". Everything has it's place in what people call endgame, but usually developers decide on creating difficult content based around bullet spongy, one shot mobs, because that's simply the cheapest way of creating content.

 

What I want from endgame is replayability of already existing content through the addition of a more and more advanced mechanics, creating an ever increasing demand for skillful play, experience and adaptability. In Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2's predecessor, there was an endgame mechanic called Hard Mode. It made all the mobs in the area you were playing more lethal and gave them marginally better AI. Every explorable zone could be turned into a Hard Mode version, giving players a higher chance of rare items, more gold, 50% more xp and some unique drops that were only available from mobs killed in this mode. This kind of hard mode had many times the replayability of a single elite area, of which there also were a few, but those because inaccessible to the majority of players later on because of elitism(another story). The basic idea of turning the whole game endgame was very cool, but the execution lacked a bit on the challenge side.

 

I would wish for Warframe to go a similar route, adding a hard mode to all of the maps, significantly increasing the difficulty and the rewards for playing in that mode. But compared to most other games with an "endgame" portion, I would love for the game to challenge me with an increasing number of mechanics for me to learn and master. Of course, bloating the game with 200 different things you need to keep an eye out for is bad design, but with the random level generation, the variety of mechanics the game could choose from to throw at the Tenno is basically limitless.

 

Example: A mission variable/condition that gives your every day mission a new twist and forces you to change your tactics. The ship your mission takes place upon has been completely depressurized and the pressure hatch system to prevent loss of atmosphere have been destroyed. Consequently, the shields of the Tenno are constantly being drained. The enemies you'd encounter have prepared themselves with stronger shields that regenerate even while exposed to the vacuum of space. Killing these enemies gives the Tenno a moderate chance of looting their special shield booster energy, allowing them to refill their shields instantly. If the Tenno for whatever reason can't find one of these shield boosters, they can also use a Shield Restore they hopefully have brought with them.

 

I'll take something like that over another elite area with level 150 ancients any day. I'm not saying I don't want harder to kill enemies, I'm saying I don't want power creep to be the main focus of endgame, not for enemies, and especially not for gear. But that's just my opinion, man.

[alocrius]

Hurr Durr, yes, I quit 2 missions into the game.

 

What you apparently don't realize is that a game is more than the sum of its parts, and that simply focusing on adding new maps and modifying existing game mechanics has far less replayability compared to adding new mechanics to the pool of the already existing ones.

This isn't a black and white issue, where you can say "never add new maps", "always add new mechanics", or "never increase mob health/power". Everything has it's place in what people call endgame, but usually developers decide on creating difficult content based around bullet spongy, one shot mobs, because that's simply the cheapest way of creating content.

 

What I want from endgame is replayability of already existing content through the addition of a more and more advanced mechanics, creating an ever increasing demand for skillful play, experience and adaptability. In Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2's predecessor, there was an endgame mechanic called Hard Mode. It made all the mobs in the area you were playing more lethal and gave them marginally better AI. Every explorable zone could be turned into a Hard Mode version, giving players a higher chance of rare items, more gold, 50% more xp and some unique drops that were only available from mobs killed in this mode. This kind of hard mode had many times the replayability of a single elite area, of which there also were a few, but those because inaccessible to the majority of players later on because of elitism(another story). The basic idea of turning the whole game endgame was very cool, but the execution lacked a bit on the challenge side.

 

I would wish for Warframe to go a similar route, adding a hard mode to all of the maps, significantly increasing the difficulty and the rewards for playing in that mode. But compared to most other games with an "endgame" portion, I would love for the game to challenge me with an increasing number of mechanics for me to learn and master. Of course, bloating the game with 200 different things you need to keep an eye out for is bad design, but with the random level generation, the variety of mechanics the game could choose from to throw at the Tenno is basically limitless.

 

Example: A mission variable/condition that gives your every day mission a new twist and forces you to change your tactics. The ship your mission takes place upon has been completely depressurized and the pressure hatch system to prevent loss of atmosphere have been destroyed. Consequently, the shields of the Tenno are constantly being drained. The enemies you'd encounter have prepared themselves with stronger shields that regenerate even while exposed to the vacuum of space. Killing these enemies gives the Tenno a moderate chance of looting their special shield booster energy, allowing them to refill their shields instantly. If the Tenno for whatever reason can't find one of these shield boosters, they can also use a Shield Restore they hopefully have brought with them.

 

I'll take something like that over another elite area with level 150 ancients any day. I'm not saying I don't want harder to kill enemies, I'm saying I don't want power creep to be the main focus of endgame, not for enemies, and especially not for gear. But that's just my opinion, man.

Preachin' to the choir man.  Make the gameplay more compelling, make the gameplay the reason to play not the reward.  If they improved whats already awesome in this game(the combat)  it would really be a heavyweight game.  But it seems combat mechanics are cooked.  Unless you count the handspring mod.

[K0SM1C]

+111111

[Ashnal]

Usually even the grindiest of farmfest treadmill games at least have an objective, goal, destination, competitive element... something. Be it endgame PvE bosses treated as loot pinatas while waiting on the next dungeon, or a repeatable campaign with difficulty modes, or your typical objective based PvP... I've never seen a game based on progression farming that completely lacks any purpose for whatever is being farmed.

 

There are currently only three things in game I can think of that one might perceive as the objective to the game:

---- Completing every location's mission (which is tantamount to repeating the same 5 or 6 missions at different difficulties)

---- Creating an artificial challenge out of reaching a certain wave on Defense missions

---- Competing to top the "most kills" list... which may be the least appealing goal of all time.

 

...

 

I understand this is still technically a "beta" ... but this is a pretty serious problem.

 

Playerbases are famous for their mass exoduses due to lack of endgame content/objectives, and this game is one of the worst culprits I've experienced. I like to remain optimistic & assume there's some big plan in the works that will give a reason for all the farming that players are being asked to do ... but the scariest thing to me is that I've yet to see any devs mention any such plans or even hint at any content in the works to fill this giant void of purpose.

 

... or is it just me? Is everyone else perfectly OK with the current cycle of farming for loot to farm for more loot? Even when literally all existing content can be completed with ease using even default starting weapons?

The funny thing is that you say an MMORPG has a purpose, but Warframe does not.

Endgame in an MMORPG is the exact same as warframe. Beating down bosses over and over again for rewards. Many MMORPGs, like Warframe, also lack things to do after acquiring the boss drops. The only reason you may think it is different, is because it takes much longer in your typical MMORPG to max out somehting than it does in Warframe.

[mindlessframe]

PvE always comes down to farming with no real challenge, makes yah feel like you slaming your head against a wall over and over again, which is why PvP exists for people who are not farmers and looking for some real challenge. I can see it now, Warframe Esport!

[Numot]

Kinda surprised there isn't a race/ obstacle course mode. Just to pass the time.

[Guest]

I blow dudes up while ninja'ing around spaceships. Yup, I'm okay with the lack of a definite objective. More lore wouldn't hurt, though.

[aTaVaX]

also i have about 450k nano spores and doubt there will ever be something to blow it on...

[DirkDeadeye]

Beta means feature complete. Last step before mass market. Quality control.

 

I'm sick of the term being used to excuse lack of content, or mechanics.

 

If they say this game is beta. That means the game is FINISHED and they just need to make us play it to see if it breaks.

[aTaVaX]

The funny thing is that you say an MMORPG has a purpose, but Warframe does not.

Endgame in an MMORPG is the exact same as warframe. Beating down bosses over and over again for rewards. Many MMORPGs, like Warframe, also lack things to do after acquiring the boss drops. The only reason you may think it is different, is because it takes much longer in your typical MMORPG to max out somehting than it does in Warframe.

 

well, in a mmo, end game raid content and even high level dungeons typically have mechanics that are fairly demanding on the raid and can cause wipes even when the raid is overgeared for the content. So even though in typical mmo you might have be farming the same bosses over and over and over again in a similar way as you do in warframe, you're at least being challenged when you do the content. 

 

Also you look at the defense missions and the only reason to ever progress past wave 5 is for xp if you're leveling something or for the sake of going past wave 5. At least it should be culmative imo, you shouldn't pass a mediocre reward in wave 5 just to get worse rewards offered to you in 10 and 15. If you get to wave 15, you should get the rewards from wave 5 and 10 too. This also prevents the annoying case of the group being really strong and you getting a decent ways in and then a reward 1 person wants is offered, he wants to leave and then your chance of going very far is dashed. 

[ClaymoreNo47]

content will come in time. In the mean time just prepare for the inevital god missions. Farm those serration and hornet strikes well need them in no time.

[Law_Abiding_Engineer]

Warframe is still in beta, a point will materialize. Some ideas that the community is proposing are below. We'd love feedback/suggestions :)

 

Cells: unlockable plot driven series of missions for a single squad of Tenno, that only reward when playing appropriate level gear. And have (kinda) perma-death :)

 

Cells: Warframe's Metagame

 

Global Influence: an ongoing conflict in each planetary system that provides temporary access to special bosses, rewards and missions once the struggle's tide is turned in Tenno's favor.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/57629-retaking-origin-a-suggestion-for-a-perpetual-endgame/

 

 

Very nice idea with the Cells thing.

 

 

I agree that the game is lacking some luster to it.  Its fun, cool, and easy to pick up and get the hang of things, but after a while, its like "why am I even playing still?" because the clans aren't balanced yet, the change of difficulty is predictable and a matter of simple level increase.   I guess that why ive hated games where you beat everything to be beaten, and then are left doing nothing but farming materails, helping others if they need a boss down, or something.   Ive taken a break from the game for the pass 2 weeks, so I hope that after a while, more stuf will be added.

[RagDollRat]

less story

More physical contesnt

 

 

stfu nubz

 

its like a space ninja varient of monster hunter

you dont play monster hunter cuz it has an amazing story

but because you can customize your own play style as to how YOU like allowing YOU to make your own story

id rather have more warframes and weapons than 50 new game types that i will only play 2 of and a story mode wich butchers everything and is filled with plot holes

 

all i want now??

+Moar Warframez

+Moar Modz

+Moar Weaponz

+Moar Primez

+Moar Dojoz (I want a Tower Dojo!!)

[Godplank]

less story

More physical contesnt

 

 

stfu nubz

 

its like a space ninja varient of monster hunter

you dont play monster hunter cuz it has an amazing story

but because you can customize your own play style as to how YOU like allowing YOU to make your own story

id rather have more warframes and weapons than 50 new game types that i will only play 2 of and a story mode wich butchers everything and is filled with plot holes

 

all i want now??

+Moar Warframez

+Moar Modz

+Moar Weaponz

+Moar Primez

+Moar Dojoz (I want a Tower Dojo!!)

 

Why do you think new game modes have to have a deep story? It's not like our current modes have a deep story either. I really don't see what point there would be to adding a bunch of frames and weapons for content that isn't challenging or worth replaying.