Tonkor Balancing (Nerf) discussion..

[WARLOCKE]

2 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Because I play this game all by myself, and never interact with any other players in any discernable way, right? It's like you all forget what multiplayer means.

I actually like the Tonkor and it's mechanics, I just don't like that it derps literally everything, so I don't use it outside of for giggles. Does that mean that it doesn't affect me at all? I have to play with Tonkor users against the same enemies. How do you think that works out? In fact, just take me out of the equation, and insert a guy who just hit MR5. He's got a Karak or a Latron or something like that. Enter Tonkor user. Who's going to end up doing nothing? What about those lower level players who like melee? Do they not get a say here? What about those who came to test out a new weapon or something, and can't kill anything because everything dies as soon as you walk into a room? People don't typically keep running when they enter a room,  they slow down and take stock of the surroundings and enemies, so that they don't die. Plenty enough time for a Tonkor to wipe the room with 2 shots and move on. End of mission results are only half the story.  This is a problem. 

Ill try not to be rude or dismissive here but.....you are wasting your life clock. The crutch is to popular now for DE to do anything to it directly. Pray for some reasonable changes to how AoE works. Thats far more likely to happen.

[TheBrsrkr]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

Solo *cough* Solo. Go do it alone. 

So, get rid of the entire multiplayer aspect of the multiplayer game, is that it? Ingenious idea!  It's not like everything in the way of drops and combat is at least 3 times less efficient without allies (besides Spy) or the game is meant to be played together with other people you may or may not know, nah. Just cut yourself out of it, that'll solve the problem! 

.... Except it doesn't. It doesn't solve anything. This actually makes the Tonkor look worse, by the way. You are literally bending public games to your will, and forcing anyone who actually wants to play the game to inconvenience themselves so that they are capable of having fun. Something that should be there regardless of who you are playing with. You forcing other players to play around you is not a problem with other players, it's a problem with you. Ignoring the problem is not a solution. 

[(PSN)Nukerxero123]

13 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

So, get rid of the entire multiplayer aspect of the multiplayer game, is that it? Ingenious idea!  It's not like everything in the way of drops and combat is at least 3 times less efficient without allies (besides Spy) or the game is meant to be played together with other people you may or may not know, nah. Just cut yourself out of it, that'll solve the problem! 

.... Except it doesn't. It doesn't solve anything. This actually makes the Tonkor look worse, by the way. You are literally bending public games to your will, and forcing anyone who actually wants to play the game to inconvenience themselves so that they are capable of having fun. Something that should be there regardless of who you are playing with. You forcing other players to play around you is not a problem with other players, it's a problem with you. Ignoring the problem is not a solution. 

Edited May 14, 2016 by (PS4)Nukerxero123

[TheBrsrkr]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

 

[(PSN)Nukerxero123]

4 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

DA hell stupid phone.

[(PSN)Nukerxero123]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

DA hell stupid phone.

What I was trying to say was. I dont even use the tonkor. But I hate when people complain about Changes and how the weapon is too op. If you have a problem with how good the weapon is at killing large number of enemies quickly, I have a little something called, wake up and face reality. U can't Control every player and their actions . And if the Tonkor does get nerfed, *cough* not happening, but hypothetically speaking if it does, then what people will move onto another op weapon. Then another round of little snobs is born, they will complain about how the other person is getting more kills and how that is unfair. Let the person do what they want. Also of a lower player finds themselves being outclassed time and time again by a higher player it is just natural. The higher player had more experience and skill. And the lower player should then play with someone if their calibre so they can grow as waframe players.  Let peopel do what they want and don't complain. Geez, Noobs nowadays complain when the next player gets more kills. It's a pve game it is about the ending. Everybody gets the affinity shared and kills are something to strive for. If the person. Uses a Tonkor then you use a different weapons and try to get more kills, thta should be your objective as a player not be a part pooper and ruin it for everyone. So you can evolve as a player.

[TheBright888]

Last thing Warframe needs is for all weapons to get 100% balanced to the point where they all do the same DPS, and have some minor differences in range, recoil, mag capacity, fire rate and accuracy.

The reason why I love warframe is because it doesnt have a stick up its bottom and gives me stuff that is entirely broken like tonkor, naramon or Ash and just lets me go to town.

 

pls leave my fun game alonw with your "oh we have to balance" dont limit my fun

 

To the devs:

This "unbalanced" game has made you lots of money. I would recommend not to change a running system.

Because if anything could get me to stop playing this game, then it would be EA style balance. Because its entirely boring for everything to be balanced and having the same usefulness and every stat increase being 3% here and 3% there.

 

Warframe is: here you go 120% damage, and here you go 60% attack speed from old fury, and here you go unlimited invisibility. Go forth and have fun! Enjoy greatly!

Edited May 14, 2016 by TheBright888

[DuskLegendary]

I personally love the Tonkor, why does it need a nerf? I mean, aside from the obvious of it being able to red crit for tons of damage and destroy lv. 100 mobs.What I'm saying is, if you nerf the Tonkor, won't everyone just move on to something like the Sancti Tigris, Vaykor Hek, Synoid Simulor?... Then if those become more overused than they already are now and everyone drops their Tonkors in favor of those weapons, what then? Are people going to cry out for a nerf on the forums just as they're doing with the Tonkor all the time?

I think it's fun to have overpowered weapons here and there, if everything was just perfectly balanced, what would be the fun in that? Half the fun is striving for that weapon you know is more powerful than what you currently have now. If anything at all is changed about the Tonkor, since it's so powerful, why not just make it an MR12 requirement? It has end game damage and viability, why note give it an end game requirement like the Rakta Cernos, Synoid Simulor, Vaykor Hek, Sancti Tigris, ect?....

 

[(PSN)Nukerxero123]

1 minute ago, DuskLegendary said:

I personally love the Tonkor, why does it need a nerf? I mean, aside from the obvious of it being able to red crit for tons of damage and destroy lv. 100 mobs.What I'm saying is, if you nerf the Tonkor, won't everyone just move on to something like the Sancti Tigris, Vaykor Hek, Synoid Simulor?... Then if those become more overused than they already are now and everyone drops their Tonkors in favor of those weapons, what then? Are people going to cry out for a nerf on the forums just as they're doing with the Tonkor all the time?

I think it's fun to have overpowered weapons here and there, if everything was just perfectly balanced, what would be the fun in that? Half the fun is striving for that weapon you know is more powerful than what you currently have now. If anything at all is changed about the Tonkor, since it's so powerful, why not just make it an MR12 requirement? It has end game damage and viability, why note give it an end game requirement like the Rakta Cernos, Synoid Simulor, Vaykor Hek, Sancti Tigris, ect?....

 

I said the same thing. I agree with u.

[PrVonTuckIII]

Just up the MR requirements. That's literally all you need to do. Something that powerful should not be a MR3 weapon that any newbie can pick up and carry to the end of the game.

[Extroah]

I'd say that, instead of nerfing the Tonkor, it would make more sense to just give all the not-so-powerfull weapons a buff. This would make less weapons obsolete and also would make us go a bit further in terms of end game content. 

[-Amaterasu-]

3 hours ago, NightElve said:

The main reason majority of players complaining about nerfs and getting frustrated with the game at times is because of this few Forums users,A lot of people are convinced everyone else should play the way they want them to. Unfortunately DE has a bad habit of listening of to them sometimes. They usually fix it afterwards, but there have been some terrible decisions based off of forum rabble rabble, there are 40000!!! active players, why would a few 100 players call a nerf for 39900 players??!! saying its making the other 39000 cheap??? look all over no one wants nerfs, There OP weapons in every game and Tonkor is our OP!

Idealy games don't have any OP weapons since it's poor design if they do unless the explicit purpose of the game is to have them(IE sandbox games like GTA, IE Not Warframe), Warframe is a game that does actively balance weapons meaning the intent of the Devs isn't to have OP ways to cheese everything the Tonkor clearly shoulden't be as OP as it is and it shoulden't be as widely available as it is what you're suggesting is the bane of every online game ever, nobody like powercreep and if they leave the Tonkor like it is then that's where this game is going to be heading.

The only reason people are arguing against it is because they are inherantly against balance the Tonkor as a weapon should not exist if it's going to out class every weapon ever with 0 downside.

[StolenLife]

So, this debate will never ends. There is no perfect balance! One gun will always have advantages or disadvantages over other gun.

Some peoples thinks that this gun is imbalanced, other peoples thinks that this gun isn't good. May be all characteristics will be monotonous and we just lost interest in the game because we just wanna balance - all should be same....

[WARLOCKE]

3 minutes ago, StolenLife said:

So, this debate will never ends. There is no perfect balance! One gun will always have advantages or disadvantages over other gun.

Some peoples thinks that this gun is imbalanced, other peoples thinks that this gun isn't good. May be all characteristics will be monotonous and we just lost interest in the game because we just wanna balance - all should be same....

Of course there is no perfect balance. But that is about the worst excuse I have heard as to why something shouldnt be balanced. As a matter of fact, after reading this thread all I see is 10 pages of people coming up with the worst most illogical excuses to save their crutch. And its all so pointless. Because at this junction DE will never nerf the weapon. Its been out to long and abused to long.

[TheBrsrkr]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

What I was trying to say was. I dont even use the tonkor. But I hate when people complain about Changes and how the weapon is too op. 

I don't care how you feel about it, because how you feel about it doesn't affect it in the slightest. Is there a magic 25% damage boost when you like it? Is there a magic 50% accuracy nerf when you don't like it? No. Then why bother bringing it up? 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

. If you have a problem with how good the weapon is at killing large number of enemies quickly, I have a little something called, wake up and face reality. U can't Control every player and their actions .

Comments like this is why nothing ever gets done. It isn't "reality" to expect to be unable to play the game in a random match. It isn't "reality" to have a weapon able to completely outstrip all the other other high tier weapons at MR5. It isn't "reality" when you think you having fun is more important than everyone else having fun. It's selfishness, plain and simple. You're not more important than anyone else here. Everyone should be able to play together, not circle around you for the scraps of enemies you leave behind. 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

 . And if the Tonkor does get nerfed, *cough* not happening, but hypothetically speaking if it does, then what people will move onto another op weapon. Then another round of little snobs is born, they will complain about how the other person is getting more kills and how that is unfair. 

And then we nerf that, and then they move on again, then they nerf that. This happens about 12 times, then suddenly you're out of OP weapons. Suddenly there's an actual choice in the matter and getting a lot of kills depends more on player skill than gear checks. 

Literally no one cares about how many kills you get, as long as they are able to participate. If they don't get to participate, then they complain. 50 kills in a match with nearly a thousand enemies isn't participation, but it's what some people end up with after playing with a squad of Tonkor users. When people do nothing but run around collecting loot and killing the odd stray enemy, they're not having fun. If they're not having fun playing the game, what do you think they'll do, stay silent and think that you're having fun so it's fine? No. They complain. That's reality. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

. Let the person do what they want. Also of a lower player finds themselves being outclassed time and time again by a higher player it is just natural. The higher player had more experience and skill. And the lower player should then play with someone if their calibre so they can grow as waframe players.  

The Tonkor is available at MR5. That isn't "Higher player" level. Yet people at MR21 have problems dealing with it. Does this seem fair to you. Is this someone being outplayed by an MR5? The skill a player has only matters if the game is balanced for skill. If you get endgame damage at the beginning, with a pretty easy to use no skill weapon with negligible downsides that deal with themselves and a freaking aim guide, no amount of skill will stop baby's first rocket launcher from killing everything. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

.  Let peopel do what they want and don't complain. Geez, Noobs nowadays complain when the next player gets more kills. It's a pve game it is about the ending. 

It isn't about the ending, it's about having fun. Running around collecting loot isn't fun. 

[NightElve]

4 hours ago, NightElve said:

The main reason majority of players complaining about nerfs and getting frustrated with the game at times is because of this few Forums users,A lot of people are convinced everyone else should play the way they want them to. Unfortunately DE has a bad habit of listening of to them sometimes. They usually fix it afterwards, but there have been some terrible decisions based off of forum rabble rabble, there are 40000!!! active players, why would a few 100 players call a nerf for 39900 players??!! saying its making the other 39000 cheap??? look all over no one wants nerfs, There OP weapons in every game and Tonkor is our OP!

 

[WARLOCKE]

1 minute ago, NightElve said:

 

That is probably one of the most incorrect lines of logic ive read in this thread. This is not a personal attack, but a statement.

[StolenLife]

Just now, WARLOCKE said:

Of course there is no perfect balance. But that is about the worst excuse I have heard as to why something shouldnt be balanced. As a matter of fact, after reading this thread all I see is 10 pages of people coming up with the worst most illogical excuses to save their crutch. And its all so pointless. Because at this junction DE will never nerf the weapon. Its been out to long and abused to long.

Hmm, i think, tonkor is conditional gun. In some situations you can destroy everything on your way. For example: Mirage. But all guns become powerfull in mirage hands.

In addition, if you use "Heavy Caliber" in your build, you have more damage, but can miss the shot

[Tyreuzs]

Heck nah my tonkor got 8 formas for a reason

Dont ya dare to nerf it D:

[NightElve]

7 minutes ago, WARLOCKE said:

That is probably one of the most incorrect lines of logic ive read in this thread. This is not a personal attack, but a statement.

Call it what you may, but that's the truth, there are other Topics outside Forums against this nerf mentality "warframe majors", and they seem to draw more attention than this posts, and there is a huge distrust, either way Tonkor isn't getting nerfed, it will wreck grineers for quite a while, if it gets nerfed due to some personal warframe elite players, the None-forum elite community will complain and a new OP shall rise again, and the Elites will come here again calling for a nerf, i think ill leave this thread here, it represents the few of the rather majority hence not a justifiable topic, TONKOR for the win :)

Edited May 14, 2016 by NightElve

[(PSN)xKAIOWAx]

Granade launcher + critical dmg +  easy mode? This weapon s a big mistake , who cares if rise MR requirement ? Dont change anything , tonkor need follow same rules of penta and ogris

[EmptyDevil]

3 hours ago, WARLOCKE said:

Ill try not to be rude or dismissive here but.....you are wasting your life clock. The crutch is to popular now for DE to do anything to it directly. Pray for some reasonable changes to how AoE works. Thats far more likely to happen.

You shouldn't cling to that logic at all. Rebecca asked Steve and Scott if they felt it was too late to change some things, they said 'hell no'. DE will change whatever they want, when they want. Salty children will not stop them.

1 hour ago, TheBright888 said:

To the devs:

This "unbalanced" game has made you lots of money. I would recommend not to change a running system.

Because if anything could get me to stop playing this game, then it would be EA style balance. Because its entirely boring for everything to be balanced and having the same usefulness and every stat increase being 3% here and 3% there.

 

Warframe is: here you go 120% damage, and here you go 60% attack speed from old fury, and here you go unlimited invisibility. Go forth and have fun! Enjoy greatly!

- Assumes and implies the reason DE made a lot of money is because of no balance.

- Assumes to know the details of DE's system.

- Assumes people will give a crap if he stops playing due to balance passes.

 

You should just do yourself a favor and leave now. DE will continue to fix and balance things.

Edited May 14, 2016 by EmptyDevil

[undernown]

It realy is simple, it's the first Crit-capable explosive primary weapon, that's where it should shine. Just half the normal damage or something.
Even with 150-200 damage, which would be the lowest for explosive primary weapons it will still deal massive crits capable of 1-shotting all of the star map and atleast 40-60 minute T4 void.

I honestly feel there needs to be a reduction in self damge for all explosive weapons.. it's simply to easy to kill yourself with them.. they need to get to the point where you go "I'd rather not shoot myself, but i can afford to take the occasional hit without getting into immediate trouble." So it should still take off like a quarter of your shield/health, which is still something to watch out for, yet won't insta-kill you. (not sure how to do this with different mods and damage etc.)

[Aetherial_Enigma]

24 minutes ago, NightElve said:

Call it what you may, but that's the truth, there are other Topics outside Forums against this nerf mentality "warframe majors", and they seem to draw more attention than this posts, and there is a huge distrust, either way Tonkor isn't getting nerfed, it will wreck grineers for quite a while, if it gets nerfed due to some personal warframe elite players, the None-forum elite community will complain and a new OP shall rise again, and the Elites will come here again calling for a nerf, i think ill leave this thread here, it represents the few of the rather majority hence not a justifiable topic, TONKOR for the win :)

Biased much?

[Alma_Elma]

4 minutes ago, undernown said:

I honestly feel there needs to be a reduction in self damge for all explosive weapons.. it's simply to easy to kill yourself with them.. they need to get to the point where you go "I'd rather not shoot myself, but i can afford to take the occasional hit without getting into immediate trouble." So it should still take off like a quarter of your shield/health, which is still something to watch out for, yet won't insta-kill you. (not sure how to do this with different mods and damage etc.)

To be fair, grenade launchers are meant to be used for bombarding your enemies from a safe distance, not using it as an assault weapon at close range. If you blow yourself up, you probably aren't using it as intended.