Tonkor Balancing (Nerf) discussion..

[WARLOCKE]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

It's not disturb but more overused

And I wonder why.....

[Vesiga]

2 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

But the 8 shots themselves still take time to fire, which means other players still get a chance to actually do something. Punch through also only works in a straight line, while the Tonkor works in a radius. In cases where enemies aren't in a straight line, which happens a lot more often than people give credit for, everyone gets a chance to kill something. Again, it isn't about the amount of kills anyone gets, it's the level of participation everyone gets to experience. You're still going to be out killed or whatever, but it isn't a problem then. 

I've yet to see the Sobek mod in action, so I don't know about that one way or the other, but as for the Torid, that's a bit of an exaggeration. Enemies simply do not stay in the area for long. You have to shoot 4 or 5 of them to really get results, and it's only for that group, nit every other. Also, it's damage over time, meaning anyone can shoot them while they're dying. 

While yes, punch through is in a straight line. The pellets are spread. With that seeking fury mod you get a faster reload time as well. Hek / Vaykor hek shoot pretty decently quick too when modded up. 

The sobek mod explodes and one shots things in a 15m radius of what you killed. Heavy units being the better target for it as the explosion is 350dmg PLUS 60% of the killed targets MAX hp  It was shown wiping out a group of lv 80's when a ancient was killed. 

the torid, it depends on the level of enemies. mid level they near instantly die with a 4-5 forma torid. High level you do have to tag the enemy for results so I suppose it is a bit exaggerated. , (i got mine built for like 6k viral 3k radiation, something on those lines. the viral really makes the kill quick from the proc.)

[TheBrsrkr]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

Ohhhhh I hit a nerve there eh. Its okay I wont embarrass you anymore in front of people. 

Standard "I have no argument" fanfare. I understand. 

 

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

 I just said peopel have their own choices, let low level players get an OP weapon, it makes the game fun. 

Funny for the person using the Tonkor. Not so fun for the 1-3 people playing with him. 

 

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

And you just contradicted own point there. You said the game is about fun , so let the people have fun. And if others have a problem they can go join another squad. 

The game is about  EVERYONE having fun. The Tonkor is fun FOR YOU. Everyone playing with you doesn't have fun because they can't do anything. Also, weren't you the one saying the game is about the end? 

 

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

. Don't push off your anger on me, it is funny though.

I'll take Projection for 500 Dave. 

[(PSN)Nukerxero123]

4 minutes ago, WARLOCKE said:

And I wonder why.....

Hahahaha. 

[Currilicious]

Just now, TheBrsrkr said:

Funny for the person using the Tonkor. Not so fun for the 1-3 people playing with him. 
 

Then, that's a problem with grouping.

If that's the case, how about making inclusive suggestions instead of a blanket knee-jerk reaction that impacts others in a bad way?

Like, allowing players to host their own session with parameters for weapons and frames. So you can now start a session with "no launcher weapons".

[(PSN)Nukerxero123]

1 minute ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Standard "I have no argument" fanfare. I understand. 

 

Funny for the person using the Tonkor. Not so fun for the 1-3 people playing with him. 

 

The game is about  EVERYONE having fun. The Tonkor is fun FOR YOU. Everyone playing with you doesn't have fun because they can't do anything. Also, weren't you the one saying the game is about the end? 

 

I'll take Projection for 500 Dave. 

I Mentioned if the others have a problem they can make their own separate squad. Dam it man use dem eyes to read. Then I said that the game getting kills actually doesn't matter as the affinity is dhared, that is how Draco works, or so I heard man. And I said end because everyone completed the mission, they all have their share of kills and AL have equal loot. And if you say waframe isn't loot based well can't help u mate. Feel sorry for u.

[(PSN)Nukerxero123]

Just now, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

I Mentioned if the others have a problem they can make their own separate squad. Dam it man use dem eyes to read. Then I said that the game getting kills actually doesn't matter as the affinity is dhared, that is how Draco works, or so I heard man. And I said end because everyone completed the mission, they all have their share of kills and AL have equal loot. And if you say waframe isn't loot based well can't help u mate. Feel sorry for u.

And put it to rest go play the game now.

[Godiz]

lol, every1 said tonkor was crap when it first came it out and now its one of the most used weapons next to the Boltor P

[(PSN)Nukerxero123]

Just now, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

And put it to rest go play the game now.

And no offence or sarcasm but if you use say a sniper rifle and someone uses melee who do you think will get  more kills, the sniper beind say a vectis p and the melee being a nikana p with 2 forma and right mods. The melee right. That's how the game is.

[Lhudge]

Mr 18 requirement I agree with this

And nerf draco xp too. It's annoying to see people already mr21 after 750 hours played and like 3 different weapons really used in percentage.

[Vesiga]

20 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Faster kills in a large area, sure, while dealing with all the other problems of launchers. Problems the Tonkor doesn't have. Also, there's fast killing, then there's half a million damage, man. That's just insane.

If its crit chance was lowered to not be allowed to red crit with argon scope- would be a fine balance to me as it NEVER needed red crits. 

sure it doesnt have some problems other launchers have with the self damage and all, but a great deal of tonkor shots do go missed or bounce off to the tenno space program. 
that may not excuse any of it, nor its... weird nade bounce which is why the self dmg is minimal. 

but it shouldnt be shoved hard to the ground. 

a higher MR rank, maybe lower crit chance, would be fine?  

personally i think the gun is useless without a maxed primed fast hands and terminal velocity. 
as 2 bullets without a quick reload, in fast gameplay can lead to a few missed shots or even your own death for not reloading or killing quick enough with travel nade time. 
and without those two mods, many guns can just blow past the tonkors capability, other than damaging enemy levels higher than anyone bothers to go. 

60min survivals are the max almost anyone is willing to go. 
I like to try to push for 80++ but people always back out of that idea. q-q

to me; the gun should stay high tier, but it should also have the MR of a high tier, but the red crits are unnecessary to me,  

1million damage doesnt matter if everyone stops before you can even reach HP like that. 
not to mention almost any gun once shots up till that point everyone wants to leave. 

so no matter what its a one shot fest of everything. 

so that'd make the case of it's AoE being too wide? take away the firestorm mod its allowed to use, OR make firestorm mandatory on it by making its natural AoE smaller, having to use firestorm would take dmg mods away making it dmg lower but still not gun that collects dust. 




on the topic of other launchers, they need more love is all. Ogris charge time is dumb, penta is alright, but should do less self dmg, Orgri's self dmg could be reigned in MAYBE? but its a huge rocket launcher compared to penta being a lil nade launcher as well. 

kinda just thinking outloud at this point

and if someone is using a AoE weapons just.. dont follow them? theres gonna be plenty of spawns behind them, or spawns re-spawning in another area away from them from their kills they just got. 

Edited May 14, 2016 by Vesiga

[Lhudge]

And just make the damage area as big as the secura penta's one, cause the aera of damage is one of the thing that makes it op. Don't nerf the damage, or just a little 10% or something.

[EmptyDevil]

22 minutes ago, TheBright888 said:

Tells me a guy that obviously likes grinding the forums more than the actual game? Play the game instead of posting 5k posts^^ Or are you literally that bored?

There is no correlation between forum post count and gameplay time, genius. By your faulty logic, the long time players here reach high post counts by not playing.

27 minutes ago, TheBright888 said:

"never touch a running system"

That's all I am saying.

Again, like i said.

- Assumes and implies the reason DE made a lot of money is because of no balance.

- Assumes to know the details of DE's system.

29 minutes ago, TheBright888 said:

No I wont leave, because this game wont ever be balanced^^ DE knows that OPness is what makes Warframe fun. Thats why they gave us Mesa, Tonkor, Naramon, Zenurik, Loki, Ash Bladestorm ect... because they know that being OP is fun and awesome.

You are extremely delusional.

Don't come crying to the forums when things get balanced then.

30 minutes ago, TheBright888 said:

And its a team game, a PvE game, why would you balance things? There is no reason. All you would do is make it boring, which would decrease player engagement, would make the grind boring and unrewarding, and in the end would make it just another generic shooter.

Most daft thing I've read in awhile on the forums and your statement contradicts itself.

- Says it's a PVE team game.

- Says there shouldn't be balance because balance would make it boring.

- Says balance will decrease player engagement, while totally ignoring the unbalanced things that completely kill player engagement. Especially in team settings.

- Implies that being OP and trivializing content makes the game fun and rewarding.

Did you even think about this before typing it? If one person on a team is doing all of the work because they are OP, then it isn't really a team anymore.

48 minutes ago, TheBright888 said:

And yes for some stuff to be OP, some stuff needs to be weak like limbo or Braton ect. So stop being boring. If you want a boring shooter go play Destiny or The Division where killing stuff takes 4h and you can grind out your 2% bonuses.

-snip-

Ah yes, the typical meme-ish response i'd expect from someone like you. This doesn't make your logic look sound, it makes it look like you're incapable of proving your point.

off topic question, did you buy that account from someone?

[TheBrsrkr]

3 minutes ago, Vesiga said:

While yes, punch through is in a straight line. The pellets are spread. With that seeking fury mod you get a faster reload time as well. Hek / Vaykor hek shoot pretty decently quick too when modded up. 
 

While all true, it still allows for players to play with people using it. The spread is pretty tight on the Vay Hek, though, and it does still have significant falloff though not as bad as before the rework. I cannot stress this enough, people do not care about kills, they care about participation. How many kills you get is a part of participation, but it isn't everything. The end of mission results don't matter, everything before it does. I could kill nothing all match and still have a good time and a great game if I get to shoot at a crap load of stuff. 

 

9 minutes ago, Vesiga said:

The sobek mod explodes and one shots things in a 15m radius of what you killed. Heavy units being the better target for it as the explosion is 350dmg PLUS 60% of the killed targets MAX hp  It was shown wiping out a group of lv 80's when a ancient was killed. 

15m sounds really excessive, but like I said, I can't speak one way or the other about the thing if I've never even seen it. If you have a video I'd appreciate it though. 

 

12 minutes ago, Vesiga said:

. the torid, it depends on the level of enemies. mid level they near instantly die with a 4-5 forma torid. High level you do have to tag the enemy for results so I suppose it is a bit exaggerated. , (i got mine built for like 6k viral 3k radiation, something on those lines. the viral really makes the kill quick from the proc.)

If things instantly die from a Torid shot, they'll instantly die from a lot of other things. If everything instadies no matter what you use, no one is really playing the mission for fun, are they? Not saying the Torid is had, but it certainly isn't anywhere near OP. 

[EmptyDevil]

10 minutes ago, GunDemon said:

lol, every1 said tonkor was crap when it first came it out and now its one of the most used weapons next to the Boltor P

I haven't seen anyone with a Boltor Prime in a loooong time. I wouldn't say the Boltor Prime is next to the Tonkor or many others anymore.

[Vesiga]

8 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

15m sounds really excessive, but like I said, I can't speak one way or the other about the thing if I've never even seen it. If you have a video I'd appreciate it though. 

i was a bit wrong on the numbers on the mod. its 450 dmg + 45% enemy max health. theres a jat kittag one that does 60% of the enemy health with 9meters radius. but i cant find the lv 80 killing video again but heres one just to see its effect. it only works on enemies you can see. like line of sight. as far as I've seen when I use it. 

 

Edited May 14, 2016 by Vesiga

[WARLOCKE]

At this point id love for the tonkor to get nerfed just to see everyone scramble to the synoid simulor, then nerf that to :D. But lets take this a step further, AOE is to strong in this game. Be it weapon, CC or frame damage. It all needs a good whooping with the bat,

[TheBrsrkr]

11 minutes ago, Currilicious said:

Then, that's a problem with grouping. 

Putting them in a separate group does not solve the issue that it's still ridiculous. It's a giant waste of time for the DEVs when they could fix the actual problem, which is the weapon. It's not a player issue, it's a game issue. 

 

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

I Mentioned if the others have a problem they can make their own separate squad. 

Effectively ruining random games, since there's no screening for them. Also, not solving the issue. 

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

. Then I said that the game getting kills actually doesn't matter as the affinity is dhared, that is how Draco works, or so I heard man. 

I'm not talking about in game XP, I'm talking about the experience of you playing the game. "At least I got some free XP" is a poor consolation to walking around aimlessly for 40 minutes. Getting kills matter because getting kills is how people have fun in the game. Not even getting kills, killing. Shooting their guns at things. Blasting powers at enemies. Dodging bullets and whatnot. Cutting enemies to pieces. Not gaining XP. Watching numbers go up isn't fun. 

 

21 minutes ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

. And I said end because everyone completed the mission, they all have their share of kills and AL have equal loot. And if you say waframe isn't loot based well can't help u mate. Feel sorry for u.

Someone doesn't understand why people play games here. And I doubt it's me. Do you play for loot or so you play for fun and get loot? 

[Vesiga]

13 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

I cannot stress this enough, people do not care about kills, they care about participation. How many kills you get is a part of participation, but it isn't everything. The end of mission results don't matter, everything before it does. I could kill nothing all match and still have a good time and a great game if I get to shoot at a crap load of stuff. 

For me in terms of a good time. Is if no one runs by purposely to targets im shooting and slams them down. like when im reloading and they just kill it q-q im trynna cherry pick targets when I play nekros for SoTD, but nooooo. 

kills being taken when you were the first to focus on them is always my issue. 

other than that I couldn't care less. unless im knocked down, save me pls
 

Edited May 14, 2016 by Vesiga

[Currilicious]

Just now, TheBrsrkr said:

Putting them in a separate group does not solve the issue that it's still ridiculous. It's a giant waste of time for the DEVs when they could fix the actual problem, which is the weapon. It's not a player issue, it's a game issue. 

 

To you maybe but you don't speak for me.

I see no issue with it. So then why would a nerf be good for me?

[WARLOCKE]

Acid Shells is no where near as abusive as the tonkor or the simulor.

[WARLOCKE]

1 minute ago, Currilicious said:

To you maybe but you don't speak for me.

I see no issue with it. So then why would a nerf be good for me?

Because it would force you to branch out to other weapons to solve problems of enemies getting in your grill. You know, the entire point of the mastery system, I know it doesnt play out that way, mainly due to draco and shared XP. But thats the intent. Theres a extra credits vid on youtube that explains why crutchs are bad for gameplay. If i wasnt so lazy id go find it.

[Vesiga]

9 minutes ago, WARLOCKE said:

At this point id love for the tonkor to get nerfed just to see everyone scramble to the synoid simulor, then nerf that to :D. But lets take this a step further, AOE is to strong in this game. Be it weapon, CC or frame damage. It all needs a good whooping with the bat,

Well considering this game is pretty Horde-like. Single target will never be the most desirable. I mean... if you look at snipers. 
nerfing all AoE though, you're looking at a wildfire that wont get put out unless they roll it back.

dont get me wrong; Snipetron Vandal, Dex Syb, select few shotguns, and such are among my fave weapons. 
 but full on cutting a open wound into AoE things and throwing in salt isn't very helpful 

6 minutes ago, WARLOCKE said:

Acid Shells is no where near as abusive as the tonkor or the simulor.

not everyone has it, nor has bothered to build with it yet. 

Edited May 14, 2016 by Vesiga

[TheBrsrkr]

Uh, what happened to my post? 

[Vesiga]

Just now, TheBrsrkr said:

Uh, what happened to my post? 

which one o3o