New players: Ember Prime is NOT worth 1k+ plat

[Troll_Logic]

Ember Prime is not worth 1,000 plat or more.  Don't waste that much plat.  Ember is just as good and infinitely cheaper.  Use that plat on mods, weapons, and other things that are actually useful.

Use your platinum on things that can help you.

Take Ember, add a few formas, and you've basically got an Ember Prime with all of your platinum.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Troll_Logic

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

That's like... your opinion man.  (Though don't get me wrong, I'd never pay 1000p for a frame, but don't steer people away from her just because of price)

Ember Prime is loads better for doing Void runs (which is her primary use for me.)  Being able to run from one end of a T4 exterminate to the other without ever firing a single shot, and having free energy along the way = great times and easy.

Hell - get Firequake on her and you can even handle doing void MDs, Captures and Sabotages with ease.  Regular Ember would do the same - but you'd be having to fish for energy constantly or expend Energy Pads.  

But for me the difference is in the base stats... sure the 25 Shield and 25 Armour boost might not seem like alot, but Ember is easily one of the squishiest frames, she gets absolutely wrecked - anything to help placate that makes it worth it.  I throw on my Sydana with Arcane Guardian and her armour boost saves me all the time.  

Outside of this though - we could argue that every prime frame isn't worth any amount of platinum.  They're just golden variants of their regular counterpart with maybe a polarity two difference and + minor stat tweaks.  

[(PSN)satsukixpenny]

Got my ember for 160 a month and a half ago, just keep at it Tenno, someone will not rip you off! 

[MegazordOP]

Sooo what's a good build for Ember?

Is firequake a must have mod for a good Ember build? 

[Vanillapuff055]

Its not the fact of how powerful the frame is, now i guess people see it as a collectible now

[(PSN)KnowLedge]

On 5/14/2016 at 2:35 AM, Troll_Logic said:

Ember Prime is not worth 1,000 plat or more.  Don't waste that much plat.  Ember is just as good and infinitely cheaper.  Use that plat on mods, weapons, and other things that are actually useful.

Use your platinum on things that can help you.

Take Ember, add a few formas, and you've basically got an Ember Prime with all of your platinum.

I agree. However it is worth 635p+. I've been blowing them out of stock as soon as they come in. They go!

[(XBOX)SwagScapegoat]

  

Every time an Ember is sold....the equilibrium price shifts up.....as long as players continue to want her.

 

[XSniperwolfX]

embor p set is worth 1500 pl,don't forget it lol

[DuskLegendary]

So I checked yesterday and the lowest price I saw was 1,300-2,000 Platinum. So are people here really trying to argue that any frame is worth up to $100 of real money without a discount or $25 with 75% off? Yeah.... sorry, but no. I understand it's a free market and everything, and the worth of the frame comes down to the seller and if the person buying said frame also thinks it's worth the price, but that is pure bs. No frame in this game is worth that much, Ember Prime is a luxury and she's rather low tier as well compared to other frames.

[(PSN)TheErotic-Taco]

On 14/05/2016 at 7:35 AM, Troll_Logic said:

Ember Prime is not worth 1,000 plat or more.  Don't waste that much plat.  Ember is just as good and infinitely cheaper.  Use that plat on mods, weapons, and other things that are actually useful.

Use your platinum on things that can help you.

Take Ember, add a few formas, and you've basically got an Ember Prime with all of your platinum.

Someone tried to sell her to me for 1100plat, safe to say I said no. Eventually bought her for around 450, which considering I main her quite often I think is a good deal.

[VKhaun]

5 minutes ago, Zari2015 said:

Just saying other frames deals literally 100 times more damage than Ember...

Maximizing ember is about Accelerant, not her damage skills. You stack your weapons with crit and heat, and hit Accelerant to get stupidly high DPS and a spammable PBAoE stun.

[.Little.]

A potato and some forma are way cheaper than  1k plat.  Even better as she levels fast for the forma as all her abilities are damage dealers.   I for one will be happy when she is able to be farmed again as I want the MR and better look.

[EvilKam]

9 hours ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

NO frame is worth 1k plat. Especially since they are supposed to come back out of the vault at one point. 

 

8 hours ago, Shreiko said:

There's nothing tradeable that is worth that amount of plat.   No prime set, no rare mods, no arcanes, nothing. Anyone asking for more than 300 on an vaulted prime set is just attempting to milk desperate or gullible fools.

That's not how "economy" works.  The value of a thing is determined by buyer demand, influenced by pedigree, and has nothing to do with "usefulness".  

The Baretta Imperiale Montecarlo shotgun sells for $106,000.  Considering you can get a fantastic Mossberg or Benelli for $1,000, we have to admit that there must be something special about a gun that costs 106 times the price.  It must be 106 times better than a Mossberg, right?  Like, it shoots some sort of laser plasma shotgun blast or something...  Maybe it's made of steel that is 106 times stronger than normal steel.  Perhaps it has some sort of patented recoil compensation system that lets you shoot with no more kick than a BB Pistol.

Nope, none of those.  It is simply lovingly hand carved and embellished, and can be had in 12 gauge or 20 gauge.  It offers no better accuracy than any other shotgun, in fact, with match grade slugs, will lag behind many of today's rifled shotguns selling for $800 or less.  It is precision matched to your own body measurements, but a competent gunsmith can do that to an aforementioned $800 Mossberg for VASTLY less than 100 grand.  With a fraction of the cost, you could buy an off the shelf shotgun, select a full complement of extremely high quality attachments, have a gunsmith precision fit it to your exact body measurements, get stock molded from carbon fiber with precision weight inserts, and have a weapon with greater payload, better accuracy, higher durability, and lower recoil than this breech-loader double-barrel.

You argue that this shotgun isn't worth the price because you can DEFINITELY get better performance for 1/50th the cost.  Therefore, this shotgun can not be sold.  

Except... No totally, it is being sold.  Baretta simply decided to make the gun, and they named the price.  It is worth every penny of that money because you don't have any other method of getting it.  Proud owners of that weapon will be out-shot on a range by thousands of of other people who have weapons with superior performance, but that doesn't matter.  The Imperiale is hand built and artistically crafted.  It is, almost literally, "Shotgun Prime".

Besides, it's not like it's a Holland and Holland Royale.  That shotgun, based off of price, can hit the Lunar Lander.

[EvilKam]

28 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

This thread is about Ember Prime.  It's not an in-depth discuss about supply and demand.

Wow, it's like i'm watching this video happen in front of me lol.  The fact is, Ember Prime is worth around 1k plat.  Yes, I'm salty that I only sold my 2 sets for 400 and 600 plat.  Yes, I'm bummed that I lost out on an additional 1k platinum, but that's irrelevant.

Ember Prime's value has nothing to do with your opinion.  Ember Prime's value has nothing to do with how we analyze her usability in game.  Ember Prime's value is determined by how badly people want to acquire her, and how much people are willing to pay for her.

Would I pay 1000 plat for Ember?  Of course not.  I think it would be a waste of my money.  My opinion however, doesn't matter.  You and I both think 1,000 platinum is way too much money to pay for her.  And for US, it is too much.

Other people disagree completely.  Other people will pay a video-game-fortune for Ember Prime.  For them, the market price isn't about "achieving the right amount of power".  For them, the market price is based off of "I want this rare thing so badly I'm willing to pay $50 real money for it", except they got theirs on a discount so, $12 or so.

This thread is about Ember Prime's current trading price.  As such, it's a discussion about economics, and thus, of supply and demand.
If this thread was about Ember Prime's next rework, it would be a discussion about game mechanics, and thus of power efficacy and usefulness.
If this thread was about Ember Prime's artwork style, it would be a discussion about Sculptris, whatever else DE uses, and thus the application of artistic theme to game design  choices.

[VKhaun]

Ember is one of my favorites and definitely gets under estimated, but Ember Prime (arguably any prime) doesn't offer so significant a bump in stats that it's really worth making a fuss over. Certainly not worth paying 1,000 plat for.

Aesthetically however... Ember Prime is really hot.... Definitely worth paying some plat for. Specific amount to be determined by the individual who's buying.

[Shreiko]

There's nothing tradeable that is worth that amount of plat. No prime set, no rare mods, no arcanes, nothing. Anyone asking for more than 300 on an vaulted prime set is just attempting to milk desperate or gullible fools.

[EvilKam]

The value of a commodity is based off of supply and demand.  Comparisons of how much a similar thing is useful are irrelevant.

The Lamborghini Reventon debuted at right around the 1,600,000 mark, and offered a 650hp engine pushing a vehicle weighing or 3671 lbs.  
Power to Weight ratio: 0.177 hp/lb

The Challenger Hellcat debuted at an MSRP of $70,000, and offered 707 hp pushing a curb weight of 4,449 lbs.
Power to Weight ratio: 0.158 hp/lb

Long winded diatribe:

Spoiler

 

The Lamborghini should lead ahead of the Hellcat slightly, as the superior power to weight ration indicates better acceleration, and cornering would suffer on the dodge as a consequence of that 800ish lb difference. (Ignoring tires and transmissions, which admittedly makes this comparison useless for practical applications)

Regardless, both vehicles are insanely high performance machines offering fantastic thrills for driving, and each would be extremely capable on a racetrack.  The challenger, being 21% heavier than the Lamborghini, would take more care to maneuver on a track, but doesn't lag very far behind the Italian supercar, and is certainly capable of posing a threat in any race.

Ultimately, both machines handle highway driving without using even a minuscule portion of their performance envelope, and those differences will never be readily apparent during any street-driving or daily commutes.  Both will move from a standstill to 60 faster than you will ever need them to.

Therefore, since you'll never need the performance difference between them, Lamborghinis should be priced comparably to the Dodge.  Lamborghinis do have a distinct performance benefit on the theoretical end, so maybe they should receive a generous 2x multiplier.  However, the Hellcat can carry more luggage and groceries, so it is much more useful.  This takes the Lambo down to only 1.5x cost, for those who love the cosmetics.

I guess we should tell Automobili Lamborghini that they need to drop their prices down to the $150k price range, because we have proven (with Ember Prime) that value is based off of usefullness.  Therefore, Lamborghinis are only worth around $100,000 to $150,000 at best.  

 

Man, all those idiots who payed millions of dollars should sue Lamborghini for being ripped off.  Since they paid 10 times the cost of a muscle car, they should get at LEAST 5 times the performance.  Porche, Lamborghini, Bugatti BMW, and McLaren should be legally required to pull the 500-1000 hp engines from their cars, and replace them with 2500-5000 hp engines.

Oh wait, no, the usefullness of a thing has nothing to do with the price.  It is all based off of the desirability of a thing.  Ember Prime's value is based off of who wants her, and how badly they want her.  The sellers have the freedom to demand whatever price they wish, the buyers have the freedom to try negotiating, or walking away.  Thus, despite your disagreement, Ember Prime really is worth 700-1300 platinum this week.

[Shreiko]

2 hours ago, EvilKam said:

That's not how "economy" works.

You are right, a free market works on perceived value along with supply and demand. Right now supply is low and demand is high in regards to the ember prime set, so sellers can admittedly take advantage of the current situation and set any price they wish to set. Problem is that the perceived value to the majority of buyers is nowhere around 1kplat. Imagine if bread or rice became scarce because manufacturers stopped production and as a result distributors hiked up the price of their remaining stock to 100 bucks per bag and loaf, people would think that ludicrous. There are other options for food but buyers still want those specific foods, those buyers will feel as though they were being cheated. This would be because people have become used to the low price of such foods and feel the pricing was unfair.

In other words I am referring to the value consumers assign to a product versus the actual price it is labeled with. That is to say is said product worth the purchase if you feel it should cost considerable less than it is being sold for.

[TheScytale]

It's a free market. The only opinion that matters is the buyer's and seller's, how much you, I, or any other person than those two think it's worth is irrelevant.
Then again, I'm not the kind to sell a Nyx Prime set for 300p just because this poor gullible newbie doesn't know anything about trading and doesn't bother to do research, and I've warned people way too many times when they were offering weird prices because of their ignorance of the usual price.

But this is Ember Prime's price. And I would sell it for 1k plat, as well as many people who are openly complaining that the price is too high. Because the rarity of the item and the demand for it imply so. Because this is how it works. Otherwise Telos Boltor would be worth almost the same as the prime (or the other way around), since they're basically sidegrades.

I think that the audience you're reaching could be the wrong one. We're not talking about the usual newbies wandering on the forums, because since they bothered to come here, most of them can do research and find out about what is and is not worth it. The newbies you would like to advise are those who are too lazy or do not care to do research before buying on impulse. Not many of those are reading this thread right now.

Now, we have two kind of newbies; those who come into warframe thinking they won't pay a single dime since it's F2P. It implies they'll have to farm their way for platinum, meager amounts that they'll have to manage meticulously. If they don't, they'll learn how to, and it will be by paying 100p more than needed, AT MOST. Definitely not by carelessly buying a frame for 1k. You also have the second kind: the ones that want a discount asap to buy some plat. I have met a lot of those through my experience, and most, if not all of them, had planned ahead what they wanted to buy (and kept "some plat for cosmetics and upcoming stuff"), a process that would teach them how to differentiate between value, utility, and price in this game. Something a lot of people here apparently do not.

All in all, I just think that this thread surely comes from good intentions, but only generates arguments as you're quenching the logical "free market" points by your "the stats are similar!!", when the vast majority of people who want Ember Prime are well established players that would just want her for the look and bling bling anyway. 

15 hours ago, EvilKam said:

Finally, is it just me, or are we posting WAY out of order on this thread?  Whenever I load it, the messages... are not in order.  Like, one person types 14 hours ago, I typed 6 hours ago, then TL posts 4 hours ago, then the next guy is 11 hours ago... it's almost like "top posting" where it's in reverse order.. but... it's not in reverse order.  Both chrome and firefox are displaying it... wrong... for me.

This is "Players Helping Players", the answers here are ordered (by default) by rating, and since people were salty about the analogies you've made they downvoted your  comments. You can change the sorting by using the button just below the original post though.

Edited May 15, 2016 by TheScytale

[Flatus]

I'd rather say that her value is purely in as an collectible or/and aesthetic... side... I dont know how to finish this sentence properly. But yea, she's collector item at this point. Worth it if you're into that.

[Completionist]

Basically the 1k plat is for the players that don't want to wait until they are released from Vault. So they will pay, of course it's their choice and no one is forcing them. I ignore ridiculous offers on items unless it's something like a primed chamber or something. You're right though, no reason to spend that on one warframe unless it's one of your last and you don't want to wait for it to return.

[Banser]

It's like excalibut prime for us, ember prime for you 

[ashrah]

i watchvideo where man gifted dodge viper totl stranger on street.....who have a lot.... for him 1k plat is absolutlly nothing....

[NotAnNSASpy]

On 5/14/2016 at 8:36 AM, EvilKam said:

The value of a commodity is based off of supply and demand.  Comparisons of how much a similar thing is useful are irrelevant.

The Lamborghini Reventon debuted at right around the 1,600,000 mark, and offered a 650hp engine pushing a vehicle weighing or 3671 lbs.  
Power to Weight ratio: 0.177 hp/lb

The Challenger Hellcat debuted at an MSRP of $70,000, and offered 707 hp pushing a curb weight of 4,449 lbs.
Power to Weight ratio: 0.158 hp/lb

Long winded diatribe:

  Hide contents

 

The Lamborghini should lead ahead of the Hellcat slightly, as the superior power to weight ration indicates better acceleration, and cornering would suffer on the dodge as a consequence of that 800ish lb difference. (Ignoring tires and transmissions, which admittedly makes this comparison useless for practical applications)

Regardless, both vehicles are insanely high performance machines offering fantastic thrills for driving, and each would be extremely capable on a racetrack.  The challenger, being 21% heavier than the Lamborghini, would take more care to maneuver on a track, but doesn't lag very far behind the Italian supercar, and is certainly capable of posing a threat in any race.

Ultimately, both machines handle highway driving without using even a minuscule portion of their performance envelope, and those differences will never be readily apparent during any street-driving or daily commutes.  Both will move from a standstill to 60 faster than you will ever need them to.

Therefore, since you'll never need the performance difference between them, Lamborghinis should be priced comparably to the Dodge.  Lamborghinis do have a distinct performance benefit on the theoretical end, so maybe they should receive a generous 2x multiplier.  However, the Hellcat can carry more luggage and groceries, so it is much more useful.  This takes the Lambo down to only 1.5x cost, for those who love the cosmetics.

I guess we should tell Automobili Lamborghini that they need to drop their prices down to the $150k price range, because we have proven (with Ember Prime) that value is based off of usefullness.  Therefore, Lamborghinis are only worth around $100,000 to $150,000 at best.  

 

Man, all those idiots who payed millions of dollars should sue Lamborghini for being ripped off.  Since they paid 10 times the cost of a muscle car, they should get at LEAST 5 times the performance.  Porche, Lamborghini, Bugatti BMW, and McLaren should be legally required to pull the 500-1000 hp engines from their cars, and replace them with 2500-5000 hp engines.

Oh wait, no, the usefullness of a thing has nothing to do with the price.  It is all based off of the desirability of a thing.  Ember Prime's value is based off of who wants her, and how badly they want her.  The sellers have the freedom to demand whatever price they wish, the buyers have the freedom to try negotiating, or walking away.  Thus, despite your disagreement, Ember Prime really is worth 700-1300 platinum this week.

I have no idea why you did this. Blind upvote for you.

[(XBOX)RVN World News]

A frame / weapon or whatever it is, is really only worth how much you're is willing to sell it for, & how much someone is willing to buy it for. Doesn't really matter if anyone think's its too low or too high.

[(XBOX)sh3kvothe]

If you're a new player and you have made the decision to purchase platinum....you're gonna want slots...and reactors/catalysts. And some more slots. No but really...slots.