U19 will be a turning point... or will not.

[Madway7]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Amon37 said:

Everytime I see a forma BP in Rot C of a T4 surv,,,ugh, at least make it fully built.

I cry everytiem

[Hypernaut1]

14 minutes ago, DxAdder said:

The grind HAS to be at a certain level or they don't make any money.

Don't be fooled F2P was never meant to be 100% free, at some point you will have no other choice but to obtain plat.

 

 

But it is easily 100% free. Ive earned 5k plat through trading. Im at a point where I have more plat than things to spend it on...and it was free to do so. Its not even just RNG, I made most of my plat through syndicates. It takes about 15 minutes of trade chat to sell a simulor.

The grind isnt just a plat making scheme. Its what keeps the game engaging. Sure WF could make a great linear SP game with its gameplay, but it would last 20-30hrs at most withoutgrind and timewalls.

If you have 1k+ hrs In this game, then you love the grind whether you understand why or not.

[Guest]

Just now, p3z1 said:

I said the former, not the latter.

I have nothing against PA, only against the grind and time-wall that is alertium.

 

Oh I see, first day of playing MMOs.

Hello? It was all about putting the hamster on the wheel? That's what MMOs are about.

If there is no grind what is the point of paying for PA? Just for one cosmetic? 

You are playing and receiving constant updates for free and that package was meant to be profit the company, and they are allowing you to get those items in the game without any cost of money. Time IS money, a price has to be paid. You either work for it or you don't get it, there is no "I want it but I don't want to work hard for it."

You stand on a payer's perspective they got it on day one, but then everyone is starting to grind those stuff out, few months later these Prime frames are all over the place. How are they going to feel? Why should they pay? And if they are quit paying who is going to pay DE's bills? You want to write them a check, or do you want to force them to create a more aggressive milking system so everyone is screwed?

Complaining about these grinds is like someone that is completely healthy on the welfare complaining the programs aren't paying them enough. Instead of crying here, go do your grinds.

[Zergoss]

Unpopular opinion time

So, I'll use Loki Prime access as the example as it's just been vaulted

Wiki says Loki was buy-able until September 16th, 2014, so I'll use that date for reference

That is nearly a two year time span, why is it so important to have the newest prime the week it's out when you have over a year to try and get it?

[DxAdder]

People in this game are SOOO Spoiled !

This is the ONLY F2P game I know of that the currency that is bought with RL $$$ (plat) is obtainable without buying it. (Trading)

Go try the other 99% of F2P games out there and you will see how bad the grind is without spending $$$$.

 

 

 

[Chef_Lu_Bu]

I'll take wallet-warrior over "crutch brigade" which is a term I learned yesterday used to describe Tonkor/mirage players, which I think is...hilarious.

[_jorgi_]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

But it is easily 100% free. Ive earned 5k plat through trading. Im at a point where I have more plat than things to spend it on...and it was free to do so. Its not even just RNG, I made most of my plat through syndicates. It takes about 15 minutes of trade chat to sell a simulor.

The grind isnt just a plat making scheme. Its what keeps the game engaging. Sure WF could make a great linear SP game with its gameplay, but it would last 20-30hrs at most withoutgrind and timewalls.

If you have 1k+ hrs In this game, then you love the grind whether you understand why or not.

You have just found your niche and are happy with that (the question is how long, if you buy everything what will be the purpose of your trading ?)

If somebody don't like so hardcore trading then grinding to obtain specific gear is just annoying as hell. If you grind to grow your stock for trading you probably don't pay so much attention to the drop and are more happy.

As I said several times already, people never change, there will be always a group of unhappy players, the question is about the proportions of whole WF game community. Veteran players who don't trade have not much to do. People with less time and no real money can't do anything interesting after ~100-200h of gametime and can't play free or at least they don't understand how to do it.

 

[matto]

A lot of very constructive and interesting replies. I won't be able to reply to everything but I'll choose some parts that are directly related to the thread.

2 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

In regards to "primes being limited now because of the vault" my brain is just screaming at that right now.

There are not- they're REALLY not. It took how many YEARS for the primes that have been vaulted at this point to be vaulted after their initial release? They are unvaulted for a while occasionally. To boot, the prime vault is not a permanent thing. It is a temporary measure to keep the void from getting EVEN MORE diluted than it already is- and all vaulted primes will be unvaulted once SC 3.0 hits and comes with the permanent solution (probably in U19).

They are supposed to be not limited. However, how many times did the vault open? How many frames are there now? And do we know if Frost Prime will ever get back to the game with the reopen of the vault? At this pace, if it stays as it is, new players will probably never see Frost Prime again. And for the argument of the drop tables dilution, you could find a lot of threads explaining how to ease it with keeping the grind aspect, by simply making a better distribution of the items. And not even mentioning the space available in the Orokin Derelict. As you said, a permanent solution is SUPPOSED to come. But hey, how many times did an idea fall into the abyss of the devs' stillborn ideas. But yes, if everything goes in that direction, as you described, then it's fine.

2 hours ago, DaftMeat said:

I read it. The tl;dr was a summary of your wall of text. 

The recent trend with resources is certainly troubling. DE is struggling to find a way to deal with players who have stockpiles of resources. To try and make people earn new items by forcing in new time gates. To give incentives for using real money instead of just making it an alternative to frustrating grinding. You're not the first one to call it out. However, you're not brainstorming any alternatives either. The ultimate goal of the forums are for constructive criticism, but your post basically summarizes to another "I don't like it" thread. There's a difference between complaining and critiquing.

You voiced your opinion, and I voiced a counter opinion. I don't like it, but I understand it.

Sorry, thought you didn't read. What I'm pointing out is not really the fact that there's incentives to make people purchase the PA, but more that it went too far with this last one. Grinding is what it is, the game revolves around it. It's not supposed to go away just like this for the sake that we must get everything now and for free. Anyone who thinks that it was my opinion misunderstood what I said. Also, I am not here to find another way for them to get income, that's really not my role. However, what I suggested in the end of my thread is that grind should be balanced by adding fun. What I mean by fun is challenge, new gameplay, goals that are not just about the grind. For that matter, I am truly excited by Lunaro. I've been waiting for such a game mode for too long now (blitzball fan). We'll get something refreshing that is a new game mode and is (I suppose) not a place for grind. Except for those potential PvP trophy or cosmetics, but Lunaro will be fun before anything else. That's my point : you want to make it a grindfest? No problem, just give me something else to do then so I don't get tired. You can even ease the "prime accessories" for those who don't purchase it by creating new and shiny stuff via Baro. But at the moment, the only way to get nice cosmetics is either buy PA or rely on Tennogen. Which is what I am going to do : giving my money for the Tennogen item. At least, even if Steam and DE get a part of that money, a nice player or artist will get some.

2 hours ago, Nesit1 said:

IYou mentioned people "who can't get Frost Prime". Tell me, how much do they lose because of it? Some stats? Some shiny stuff on Waframe? He looks bad, needs vusal overhaul. I started playing in patch when Void was added. And I never, ever wanted to build Prime. News of him getting vaulted. W/e. News of him getting unvaulted. W/e. I knew I didn't lose much just because I don't have it.

All my respect for acting like this. You're definitely another kind of player. I met people like you before, but I guess I like too much the Orokin era lore to just let primes go. It's a matter of aesthetic seriously, just that. But I guess your way of playing Warframe is going to get more and more common. You're just a precursor who understood that you don't have to get it too serious. Amen to that :) And you know, I've been around for more than 3 years now, still MR 18, not bothering getting everything in game. Playing at my own pace. But for me prime is a big deal, especially the frames.

2 hours ago, TheStag said:

Lately, as in throughout the past few updates, it seems the developers had a paradigm shift. It certainly wasn't sudden, but like you said, the steps have been taken. The developers have often verbally expressed their aspirations for the game throughout its development, however through their work you can see that one thing in particular has changed - what they aspire for.

I think that even among the devs, this subject of grind and time walls is a sensitive matter. As I said, I don't blame some of the most famous devs of the game as I used to know what they truly thought about those matters. But Warframe became a strong and solid economic income for a studio that is not owned by them (even if some of them have shares, or had), and was "taken over" by a larger company. There are economic stakes that are way beyond their intention. Just check DE's recent growth and what Warframe meant for an independent studio and all the kind-of start-up strategy behind it.

2 hours ago, Nijyumensou said:

If they listen to your voice, are you ( the community) willing to invest more cash needlessly into the game even though the pricing per item is going to be extremely cheap(just to feed the company) ? I am fairly sure most of us are only paying with cash because we know grinding for resources/item is extremely tough but if getting the item's reward chances increase noticeably or resources get any easier to farm, will you still pay platinum to get it faster so you can focus on farming resources even though it will only take you at most a day to complete the farming ? As long as microtransaction is their main revenue supply,the grind wall should either remain the same level or even more.

let's move on to the fun part but since I have no idea what do you want so I will refer those as "fun stuff".so what if they can provide you the "fun stuff "but you have to pay 2000 to 3000 platinum bi-annually to enjoy it? (content changes [drastically or totally ]every half a year) (uses token system instead of rng) (untradeable ) 

What do you think? 

I don't know how to feel about that mate. I still buy plats when I can (meaning when I have some savings for it and a coupon to make an efficient purchase). The founders pack was the only PA I bought so far. At that time, I thought about supporting them, but I won't say I wasn't interested by Excalibur Prime. That was a good 50% of the reason why I bought it. Now, I wouldn't mind getting another paying system if content follows. Right now I can't afford PA, games are crazy with those prices anyway, and will keep supporting the game by buying Tennogen skins whenever I meet a good and nice artist/player. They do awesome things, they need to be supported. I remember one thing : this game is/was supposed to be developed with the community. Time to support this community. I don't know if I answer to your question, but I don't feel the need to pay for something I can get for free at the moment. If they would release a new kind of founders pack now, I don't think I would buy it because I don't feel like supporting a strategy that I dislike.

1 hour ago, Dobroazur said:

IGrinding is the core of this game, everything is built around the concept of completing missions and killing dudes to get loot.

You're right. As you said you're "new", but you understand this. For players that have been playing Warframe for a while now, it gets more like a chore as someone wise said in this thread. And that's the problem : when the grind becomes so heavy that can't handle it anymore. When fun is killed by it. So there's one solution as a lot of people said : play the game for the fun of it and that's all. I agree, I do. Only problem for me : game needs improvement soon enough as it feels broken in many aspects. Anyway, you'll have to spend a lot of time to finally feel like this. Don't listen to me or other tired "veterans" and enjoy Warframe please. This Universe is awesome in itself.

 

That's all the replies I can write atm. Thanks everyone for contributing, arguing and making this thread interesting enough.

Oh, another thing, I agree that there should be this logic : if you can't handle the grind, there's purchasing the pack. Just don't cross the border of "let's make most people not being able to handle it so more people will buy it". At some point, it won't work anymore and people will loose interests and just leave. Not saying it crossed the line yet, but it's on a good way to that point. I know that F2P game developers like to test their player base to know how much they can handle, and what's the best they can get from them in term of income. But going too far is a double-edged sword.

Edited May 18, 2016 by matto

[MagPrime]

I don't really see it as a widening gap; in about a month everything will even out and Booben Primes prices will drop, making him affordable to more players.  This is a "gap" that is narrowed over time and artificially ripped wider when a new PA comes out. 

The grind though, that I agree with.

[XenoFant]

2 minutes ago, kiteohatto said:

It's your choice to keep playing the game, developers set how the game is to be played and at what pace, it's YOUR decision to stick with it or find a new game if you don't agree. Developers aren't obliged to adjust the game to your every whim.

First, watch your language pal.

I'm not saying that DE has to follow my will. It would be weird if they did, but it would make the game better. Rather it's the overall player. If DE doesn't adjust to the players, they will lose their reputation, eventually their company.

Second, I don't know which games you're playing, except for Warframe, that lead you to say such things. It's ridiculous. You want a game rule your life? Go on, then ruin it. If you want to truly live, then play a game that follows the desire of the gamers. Look for a game that's not selfish and actually cares for their players.

Third, I keep playing the game, because I secretly hope that DE finally makes Warframe playable again. While doing that, I notice over and over again that it's worthless. It never happens. I stopped playing for a year, some time ago, and came back to U18 to see if the game got any better. Nope, it got worse.

Fourth, I play, so I know about the issues and problems in Warframe. If you just caught them, you are no reliable source at all. You have to expirience these things to truly be taken seriously.

[DxAdder]

4 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

But it is easily 100% free. Ive earned 5k plat through trading. Im at a point where I have more plat than things to spend it on...and it was free to do so. Its not even just RNG, I made most of my plat through syndicates. It takes about 15 minutes of trade chat to sell a simulor.

The grind isnt just a plat making scheme. Its what keeps the game engaging. Sure WF could make a great linear SP game with its gameplay, but it would last 20-30hrs at most withoutgrind and timewalls.

If you have 1k+ hrs In this game, then you love the grind whether you understand why or not.

 

This is the problem! They don't want to grind for plat or resources. But they want every item in the game NOW.

 

[p3z1]

10 minutes ago, kiteohatto said:

So you don't find warframe spend worthy, yet you like it enough to care about latest shinies ? I honestly don't understand that. If you really can't find anything to play at all then you have pretty high standards that clearly warframe offers, since you still care to play it and write on forums....

It's your choice to keep playing the game, developers set how the game is to be played and at what pace, it's YOUR decision to stick with it or find a new game if you don't agree. Developers aren't obliged to adjust the game to your every whim.

1 - I won't say if I spent for plat since I may look entitled either way, so imma leave that one hanging.

2 - This game isn't complete, and I find it good (but not the best out there). I don't force what I want, I only point out things that look like problems.

9 minutes ago, (PS4)SupeBoss said:

As a wallet-warrior (I've spent well over $1k on this game in the past year alone) I agree with you, but the model that they are using is quite fair. There should be a gap between the two since it is a FTP game.
Yes, there is a gap. And yes, the gap is widening.

HOWEVER

The issue that I have is that the things they say and the tactics they use are very misleading. DE is one of the best studios in the industry for it's interactions with players, and they just keep shooting themselves in the foot.

The single most ridiculous example of this is when they say things like "we don't want to dilute the drop tables." Why, oh why, would you ever say this.
Nevermind the fact that you can make the rotations ABCD instead of AABC
Nevermind the fact that there are credit caches, packs of uncommon cores, orokin cells, and other, for the lack of a better term, "reward placeholder" items in the drop tables
Nevermind the fact that you can add a T1-T3 interception as OP mentioned
You see where I'm going with this....

Adding Nezha to sorties - at the time it was a blatant cash grab, now it has come back to dilute the sortie rewards, as they are now pretty much trash rewards for end-game content.

Hunhow's Gift was another cash grab (at the time at least), making a weapon obtainable only by giving up one of - if not the - best weapon in the game. Which, at the time, happened to come fully built - with potato. Then if you wanted to go back to it, you'd have to farm a rare boss to get the BP....then give the thing you just built back up

Increasing the grind, time walls, and RNG to buff the prices of things on trade chat (and up the appeal of buying market items/PA) while at the very same time saying they want to reduce it.

They would be in a much better place if they were just a bit more open with their business strategies. Trying to get players to spend money in a free to play game is NOT a sin, but they keep skirting around it like it is. When they say these things, it give the players a right to call them out or be upset. They're opening themselves up for criticism that is entirely unnecessary.

I have nothing against PA and supporting the DEvs (check back on few pages). Also, not every player has access to nezha. They kept it there so other players can access it once they are of a certain rank.

Now, go to nitain, something that can be accessed by clearing 70% of the starmap, more or less, or taxi'd to. That takes time AND luck to get to. This is a problem.

Void dilution in favor of Prime Vault, another problem. They could just keep the old primes in earlier rotations, then sell them for a limited time in the future paired with primed cosmetics, etc. Of course, they could lower their drop chances compared to the current primes in rotation. Or do it like how Frost did it, minus diluting other tables.

 

6 minutes ago, Valteria. said:

Oh I see, first day of playing MMOs.

Hello? It was all about putting the hamster on the wheel? That's what MMOs are about.

If there is no grind what is the point of paying for PA? Just for one cosmetic? 

You are playing and receiving constant updates for free and that package was meant to be profit the company, and they are allowing you to get those items in the game without any cost of money. Time IS money, a price has to be paid. You either work for it or you don't get it, there is no "I want it but I don't want to work hard for it."

You stand on a payer's perspective they got it on day one, but then everyone is starting to grind those stuff out, few months later these Prime frames are all over the place. How are they going to feel? Why should they pay? And if they are quit paying who is going to pay DE's bills? You want to write them a check, or do you want to force them to create a more aggressive milking system so everyone is screwed?

Complaining about these grinds is like someone that is completely healthy on the welfare complaining the programs aren't paying them enough. Instead of crying here, go do your grinds.

First day of MMOs s/he says (not sure of your gender, so I used that). I've played since U8, when the voids were only till T3, when Rotation Cs only gave prime parts, when voids weren't as diluted as they are now. I am now MR21, I've seen this game's up and downs. This is one of the lower downs out there (beside equinox).

Again, you did not read what I said. I have nothing against PA, I am against horrible dilution and unfair alertium times.

 

4 minutes ago, Zergoss said:

Unpopular opinion time

So, I'll use Loki Prime access as the example as it's just been vaulted

Wiki says Loki was buy-able until September 16th, 2014, so I'll use that date for reference

That is nearly a two year time span, why is it so important to have the newest prime the week it's out when you have over a year to try and get it?

Because loki didn't need alertium. Also, because Loki PA, IIRC, was still less diluted, and guaranteed primes on rotation C, unlike now.

 

4 minutes ago, DxAdder said:

People in this game are SOOO Spoiled !

This is the ONLY F2P game I know of that the currency that is bought with RL $$$ (plat) is obtainable without buying it. (Trading)

Go try the other 99% of F2P games out there and you will see how bad the grind is without spending $$$$.

Yes, I can spend loads of plat for vauban prime parts, too bad I can't buy alertium.

Why do people keep saying I am against PA when I ain't?

 

4 minutes ago, Chef_Lu_Bu said:

I'll take wallet-warrior over "crutch brigade" which is a term I learned yesterday used to describe Tonkor/mirage players, which I think is...hilarious.

Mirages don't have crutches, and the tonkor isn't shaped like one.

*done acting dumb*

 

2 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

I don't really see it as a widening gap; in about a month everything will even out and Booben Primes prices will drop, making him affordable to more players.  This is a "gap" that is narrowed over time and artificially ripped wider when a new PA comes out. 

The grind though, that I agree with.

If they made alertium last longer (maybe ~2 hours), maybe we can say the gap is lessening, otherwise, it doesn't.

Yes, you can buy vauban prime, but alertium, no.

Yes, I am extremely unlucky with alertium timing.

[Me.KayOh]

There is no gap between F2P players and what you refer to as "wallet warriors" apart from the fashion frame gap. you're free to either pay for prime access, or grind for the weapons and frame in game. no one is forcing your hand to do either. There would be a gap if they had restricted prime frames and weapons to purchase-only. That is what a gap would be. And if you are familiar with games that traverse more into the P2W locales of game, you'd understand this.

Drop rates low? We understand this. For years its been this way. And it is a method employed by the company to get people to play the game. I dont agree with this method since players should play the game for its great content. But loot-grinding is a time-proven method that DE has recognised. Its been a standard set by earlier mmorpg like WoW. If it wasnt, DE wouldnt employ it. Before you quote this specific part and reply, let me inform you that i've grinded for every single prime frame that was made available in game(i still dont own some yet.) I know how infuriating, annoying, depressing and disgusting RnG can be. So i dont need to be preached to about it. Grind wall? yes. Gap between f2p players and players who pay for items? Nope.

People who pay, simply get the items before you can. they dont get items that you cannot get. let that sink in a little.

and lastly, vauban prime's requirements were set in the manner that they are because of how the original vauban was obtained. Through alerts. hearing people complain about nitain alerts is well, puzzling, given how the original vauban dropped. almost twice daily you have nitain alerts. the original vauban was more scarce. That's not the point though. They wanted to match the level of difficulty of obtaining the vauban prime, to the difficulty of obtaining the original vauban. why? i have no clue to be honest. When update 6 rolled out they had nowhere to put vauban parts to drop. so they dropped them from alerts. fast forward 13 updates and its the same thing.

So if you want to identify your real problem, its the grind wall. but the nature of the game is such that, its based on loot-grinding. and the game's heavily dependent on that ecstasy of getting the reward you want after working for it. all loot-grinding games are like that. but if you don't find that appealing then loot-grinding is not for you. if you cannot handle it any longer, then maybe this game is not for you. and that's not a bad thing either. people are different. some people like this. some dont. its entirely up to you. but dont paint the problem as something else.

[DxAdder]

Just now, p3z1 said:

If they made alertium last longer (maybe ~2 hours), maybe we can say the gap is lessening, otherwise, it doesn't.

Yes, you can buy vauban prime, but alertium, no.

Yes, I am extremely unlucky with alertium timing.

But it can be farmed, well not in the most efficient manner it is still possible.

 

[_jorgi_]

2 minutes ago, DxAdder said:

 

This is the problem! They don't want to grind for plat or resources. But they want every item in the game NOW.

 

Problem for who ?

Because not for me, and under specific conditions not for DE at the moment. But they understand the conditions and working on the preventive "measures" (U19, changes, etc.)

Real problem for me is if that's enough and at right time (not too late).

[p3z1]

5 minutes ago, kalikilic said:

There is no gap between F2P players and what you refer to as "wallet warriors" apart from the fashion frame gap. you're free to either pay for prime access, or grind for the weapons and frame in game. no one is forcing your hand to do either. There would be a gap if they had restricted prime frames and weapons to purchase-only. That is what a gap would be. And if you are familiar with games that traverse more into the P2W locales of game, you'd understand this.

This is why I steered away from P2W games.

 

5 minutes ago, kalikilic said:

Drop rates low? We understand this. For years its been this way. And it is a method employed by the company to get people to play the game. I dont agree with this method since players should play the game for its great content. But loot-grinding is a time-proven method that DE has recognised. Its been a standard set by earlier mmorpg like WoW. If it wasnt, DE wouldnt employ it. Before you quote this specific part and reply, let me inform you that i've grinded for every single prime frame that was made available in game(i still dont own some yet.) I know how infuriating, annoying, depressing and disgusting RnG can be. So i dont need to be preached to about it. Grind wall? yes. Gap between f2p players and players who pay for items? Nope.

We are in the same boat with this, so I can safely quote this IMO.

 

5 minutes ago, kalikilic said:

People who pay, simply get the items before you can. they dont get items that you cannot get. let that sink in a little.

and lastly, vauban prime's requirements were set in the manner that they are because of how the original vauban was obtained. Through alerts. hearing people complain about nitain alerts is well, puzzling, given how the original vauban dropped. almost twice daily you have nitain alerts. the original vauban was more scarce. That's not the point though. They wanted to match the level of difficulty of obtaining the vauban prime, to the difficulty of obtaining the original vauban. why? i have no clue to be honest. When update 6 rolled out they had nowhere to put vauban parts to drop. so they dropped them from alerts. fast forward 13 updates and its the same thing.

So if you want to identify your real problem, its the grind wall. but the nature of the game is such that, its based on loot-grinding. and the game's heavily dependent on that ecstasy of getting the reward you want after working for it. all loot-grinding games are like that. but if you don't find that appealing then loot-grinding is not for you. if you cannot handle it any longer, then maybe this game is not for you. and that's not a bad thing either. people are different. some people like this. some dont. its entirely up to you. but dont paint the problem as something else.

Because painting the problem as grind seems to always lead to "go grind." A grind-wall is bearable, although this wall has been increasing lately. A time-wall with a grind-wall is another thing altogether.

 

4 minutes ago, DxAdder said:

But it can be farmed, well not in the most efficient manner it is still possible.

Ship sabotages don't even give me nitain or xiphos parts, so that's almost out. Coupled with random missing caches and this is a problem.

I also have limited time to do alertiums alerts. A lot of people suggested longer timers ever since Wukong appeared, still no signs of changing that thing.

The grind is getting worse by the update (U8 had grind, but not as hard as the one currently, for example).

Edited May 18, 2016 by p3z1

[Guest]

Just now, p3z1 said:

 

Again, you did not read what I said. I have nothing against PA, I am against horrible dilution and unfair alertium times.

 

I have all my nitain items build whenever I want and I have 30 plus surplus right now. How is that unfair? I too have my duties which consumes me sometimes 12 hours a day, how am I not in need of Nitain but someone else does? Simple, either lazy or not putting enough time in the game. Not to mention I never do any def, surv, MD, and Ext alerts for nitain., and I built all my dojo and dojo tech (fully researched) on my own. There is nothing unfair here, only burnouts and not putting enough time into the game. The one to blame is in the mirror.

 

 

[TennoPain]

Grind kills the fun for me 

[Me.KayOh]

Just now, p3z1 said:

 

Because painting the problem as grind seems to always lead to "go grind." A grind-wall is bearable, although this wall has been increasing lately. A time-wall with a grind-wall is another thing altogether.

 

its still not a gap between f2p players and players who pay. and its not a paywall. and technically, RnG is such that time cant be modeled into it exactly. it took me 22 runs to get an ash prime bp. and for most of those runs i went to wave 40 on the t3 defence. do you know how long that takes? after that, it took me 2 runs in t4 sabotage to get 2 ash prime helmets. random is random.

time is something the company cannot account for, primarily because its your time. 

 

btw, there's a nitain alert up.

[matto]

Just now, TennoPain said:

Grind kills the fun for me 

Get out of here! TennoPain? Just another name of the RNGod.

Just kidding.

 

[p3z1]

1 minute ago, Valteria. said:

I have all my nitain items build whenever I want and I have 30 plus surplus right now. How is that unfair? I too have my duties which consumes me sometimes 12 hours a day, how am I not in need of Nitain but someone else does? Simple, either lazy or not putting enough time in the game. Not to mention I never do any def, surv, MD, and Ext alerts for nitain., and I built all my dojo and dojo tech (fully researched) on my own. There is nothing unfair here, only burnouts and not putting enough time into the game. The one to blame is in the mirror.

Because we don't have the same luck, same things to do in life, and have the same times of availability. So you can say that you are busy with life, but maybe you have open times bigger than mine as well. Or maybe the reverse. You can call dedication, I call bad luck. In the end, the grind is still there, an so is the time-wall, and these things aren't shrinking.

 

1 minute ago, kalikilic said:

btw, there's a nitain alert up.

Just when I couldn't login the game (gg internet + rain).

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

52 minutes ago, XenoFant said:

First, watch your language pal.

I'm not saying that DE has to follow my will. It would be weird if they did, but it would make the game better. Rather it's the overall player. If DE doesn't adjust to the players, they will lose their reputation, eventually their company.

Second, I don't know which games you're playing, except for Warframe, that lead you to say such things. It's ridiculous. You want a game rule your life? Go on, then ruin it. If you want to truly live, then play a game that follows the desire of the gamers. Look for a game that's not selfish and actually cares for their players.

Third, I keep playing the game, because I secretly hope that DE finally makes Warframe playable again. While doing that, I notice over and over again that it's worthless. It never happens. I stopped playing for a year, some time ago, and came back to U18 to see if the game got any better. Nope, it got worse.

Fourth, I play, so I know about the issues and problems in Warframe. If you just caught them, you are no reliable source at all. You have to expirience these things to truly be taken seriously.

There's nothing wrong with his language.  He's just trying to remind you that this game is entirely optional and you have the choice to keep playing or not.  He's disagreeing with you, not insulting you.  Leaving feedback is ok too and I think that's what you're doing here.

Warframe is very playable, and personally speaking I'm not grinding it out for now myself.  Not because I hate it or not getting some weird fulfillment from a piece of software, etc.  Just that I have better things to do with my time at the moment.  When I get bored with that stuff and want to play WF again intensely I'll do so.  Again...  It's entertainment for me and entirely optional.  That's the point he's trying to make.

Play the game.  Don't let it play you.

When you talk about ruining lives, etc.  That's the player's own choice to do so.  I'm 12k mastery away from being MR22, and actually have enough gear to level to do it even without the new prime access stuff.  Leveling Archwing is just too dreadfully slow for me, so I won't bother.

(The rest of this post I'm replying to the thread and not to you. so please don't take any offense, etc.)

I'm a huge fan of Warframe, and sort of both a wallet warrior and a F2P player.  I try to craft almost everything I can in this game, but things like Forma, exilus adapters and focus lenses I just buy, because I can't be bothered to grind them out and I have no trouble affording them.  As it stands while I've purchased Prime Access several times I just can't bring myself to spend $140 on a nice amount of platinum, a couple weapons, a warframe, accessories and some boosters.  The developers need to rethink what $140 actually buys people...  I bought doom for like $33 two weeks ago.  When I weighed how much enjoyment I can actually get for my dollar in buying other games it really made me reconsider about this current prime access.  The prime access packages themselves need to be reworked.  I believe the console version packages are much better thought out and make more sense than PA for PC.

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by sushidubya

[p3z1]

1 minute ago, sushidubya said:

I'm a huge fan of Warframe, and sort of both a wallet warrior and a F2P player.  I try to craft almost everything I can in this game, but things like Forma, exilus adapters and focus lenses I just buy, because I can't be bothered to grind them out and I have no trouble affording them.  As it stands while I've purchased Prime Access several times I just can't bring myself to spend $140 on a nice amount of platinum, a couple weapons, a warframe, accessories and some boosters.  The developers need to rethink what $140 actually buys people...  I bought doom for like $33 two weeks ago.  When I weighed how much enjoyment I can actually get for my dollar in buying other games it really made me reconsider about this current prime access.  The prime access packages themselves need to be reworked.  I believe the console version packages are much better thought out and make more sense than PA for PC.

Price to pay for skipping that HUGE grind-wall and time-wall.

I have nothing against PA, but the walls, a lot of problems.

[(PSN)Sgt_Buttscratch]

-" Probably the most controversial thing currently, Vauban Prime needing 20 NITAIN TOTAL (5 per part, 5 for the BP). Sure getting 20 nitain isn't a problem, if you get lucky with all the nitain alerts, camp them 24/7 in front of your PC, or have a lot of free time and an alert app to...well...alert you. Those busy (studying, work, family, life, etc.) will depend on luck if they are able to access said nitain alerts. Now ship sabotage is another thing, but requires at least 2 players to be efficient, and is fairly unreliable, due to some random caches not being existent/missing. "

By now 20 Nitain extract should not be an issue, I do maybe 1 out of every 20 alerts, I have ore than 20 at the ready. I have wife/kids/job. As for the sabotage 1 players in fine, but trying to use "at least players 2 players to be efficient" on a MULTIPLAYER game, with easy access to global chat, rectruiting, clans, public party/lobby is a crock...

-" Placement of prime parts currently. So most, if not all, players know that Rotation C is the MOST DILUTE thing existing in the game, and DEvs decide to put the new primes in only Rotation C's (considering that you need the whole set anyways to get the whole thing built to work). Akstilleto Prime has 3 parts in Rotation C, and they are all in T4 missions, which has a chance to give R5 cores in general, even at Rotation C. Fragor Prime has one part in Rotation C, although in a T3 mission, is still not an excuse, since it is still diluted. Vauban Prime, in 2 Rotation C missions, T3 and T4. People who have time to sperg/grind for parts WILL still have a problem, but those without the time are dangled the "buy me" option. "

Rot 3 does not equal "buy me", always squads running these keys, if you don't have as much time as others that does not count as the f2p gap widening, just means YOU have less time to farm. What are you going to do with your less time once you do farm the new stuff? There's no longevity in instant or fast free access. Not a good business model in todays games. Basically you are trying to create an issue with the entire game based on your own personal parameters.

-"Another prime parts placement issue, but this time in focus of the "Ignored Rotations(tm)." Ignored Rotations(tm) are those rotations that have almost nothing (prime parts-wise) in them, but random rewards which should have been integrated in-game. Rotation As and Bs in general are offenders, being given minimal prime parts, while putting a load of stuff in Rotation C. ODS and ODD are the prime offenders, having an abyssmally low chance to drop prime parts even at Rotation C. This has led to the "Prime Vault," something that could have been avoided, because of the lack of T1-T3 Interception, lack of prime parts in Rotation A and B, the lack of prime parts in the Derelicts, and even probably the lack of T1-T4 spy (if such a thing is a good idea.) Basically, for new players to avail of these things, they are forced to go to trading and buy them using platinum they have bought, while F2P players wait for U19 to probably open up the vaults again.. An indirect reference to wallet warriors out there. "

Lets be honest here, if there was t1-3 Interception(these would be very boring, long and easy, as T4I is long boring and easy) or spy etc. You would still have an issue with the fact you have to get those keys, then use your precious time farming those keys, then need to gather resources to build. I do agree real rewards in OD missions would be nice, it still does not promote being a wallet warrior.

-" Sibear requires 30k cryotic, a very huge amount of cryotic (300 excavators), not a problem for those that power-farmed these before the excavation "rebalance" and core drop nerfs. Not a major problem, since it isn't a prime anyways, but shows a gap between F2P and paying players. "

NOPE, not with you here either. Best place to get Tower keys is... excavations....woooo. This means whilst gathering resources to be farm the void, you passively gather resources to build items. This can only be promotion to play the game, not to buy.

-" An argument that may seem dull, but I'd consider the Second Dream to be another gap opener (gear-wise). So, finishing this quest gives Broken-War, a pre-requisite for a probably broken weapon, War. Now, buying Hunhow's Gift gives you War for free (technically) and some cosmetics exclusive to the bundle. If you can't afford that platinum, then you are going to grind for War BP from Stalker. Wanting to keep both, you farm Stalker for Broken War BP, and conculysts for 2x blades and a hilt (really broken logic there). So, again, F2P players grind a huge wall, while wallet warriors have instant access. Players without time and money suffer both ways, and again, a gap is presented. "

I got the Hunhow's Gift, It cost me $0. Nothing, Just by playing the game I gathered items and sold them on the trade market. Once again, not directly going after the war, but passively through playing it was rather easily obtained, considering it was 2 evenings work that got me what I needed to get the platinum.

-" The introduction of clan-tech weapons to the Market. Yes, this is an old thing already, since older tech weapons can't be bought with plat anyways. The problem is, the recent clan-techs can be bought with plat as well, aside from the usual gathering of materials and researching. The problem with this is the fact that some Clan-Tech weapons are expensive, and are available from the market. Also, a side note, forma BP drops have been seemingly nerfed before, and pre-built forma don't seem to exist in the void anymore. The Knux is probably the best example out there. Again, a small gap, but a gap nonetheless. "

Again this does not equate to a gap, just how the game is. F2P = go get it, its still there for you, you just need to work. Forma BP have not been nerfed, they haunt me, pre-built come from rare orokin containers, still ingame. Thats also where you find a mantis parts.

-"Now I'd probably get the "trade chat" argument. Sure it works for some market items, but what about the primes (especially the recent one)? What about those that only have one hour per day to play, and are unlucky, and have bad connection whenever they get the chance to play? What about those who aren't able to get the nitain because of luck?"

If you have limted time that is your problem, can't build an entire game around people who have no time. The players who do have time would suffer. As if stuff was on a plate obtainable we would get it and have nothing to do faster than that happens now.

I will admit that Nitain extract is stupid. My reasoning is they missed a cool opportunity. They add under water maps, then add nitain extract with is a product from underwater vent dwelling micro organisms, but they did not add them together. I think there should be underwater excavating maps that give nitain instead of cryotics.

-"Now, I'd probably get the "wait for Starmap 3.0 if it solves the vault issue," but what if it acted like how Frost Prime was unvaulted? It diluted drop tables even more, and the "buy me" option was dangled as well. It was limited time as well to boot (but nothing can be done about that)."

Unvaulted gives those who didn't get it at 1st the chance to either buy it or farm it.... that is all. You make it sound like it was hard too get..

-"Lastly, I'd probably get the argument of "But DE needs to feed themselves as well." Yes that is understood, but the MASSIVE dilution and IMPROPER distribution wasn't necessary. I mean, they could just go 10% x 10 for a single rotation, but they had to weight it very low as well (I assume ~2.5% per new Rotation C item). Players who find the game good tend to buy for cosmetics anyways, or buy plat to support the game (Founders did this right?). So, the mandatory massive dilution wasn't necessary, if you ask me."

 

 

Lastly I'd ike to say I haven't spent to many $$ on warframe, I have limited, but I grew up knowing that getting stuff required effort and work. This thread seemed be an over critical analysis of the game based on your specific wants and needs. Even my kids are made to set goals then earn them. DE do a great job in my opinion, they keep us involved, always working, updates come in at a good rate. Compared They s*** all over most AAA dev groups with end product.

The game will always offer the free or pay options. I don't agree that it creates a gap. I have never payed platinum for a market weapon( I think), i got em all... well close 2 short. I'm more angered by the Formorian alert that keeps appearing...boring boring boring. Never ran 1 run that was fun.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by (PS4)covan2306

[Zergoss]

So, I'm not going to argue that some of the alerts are not active for long enough. Sure, I've missed Nitain alerts and even the random potato alert because of life, that's just how things go.

It seems each post you main argument is "I don't want to grind, but I don't want to pay"