U19 will be a turning point... or will not.

[Alanbot]

The grind to gather resources to craft Booben didn't bother me too much since I have a fair amount of those already. What really grind my gears is the Rotation C syndrome DE's heading to. Me and my friend's been seriously burned out from farming for Saryn Chassis. And that's with attempts to pad things out with different missions in between. Now everytime I see something Survival Rot C drop only, I'm like just F*** it.

I'm not against grind. In fact, I like it to a certain extend, my abundant resources kinda proves it. However, farming in the Void for 40-60 mins without nothing but Kamas BP, cores and Forma? Doesn't sound fun to me 

[XenoFant]

27 minutes ago, kiteohatto said:

I didn't say anything offensive....we are disagreeing, but we are still being civil about it.

1. DE is the man in charge, they choose what changes to implement and they are fully aware that they might lost some players, but they will also retain and bring new players. Look at EvE online, CCP is so focused on retaining vet players that they adjusting the game to suit vets and endgame, new player experience is horrible and that game now has a relatively low playerbase(like....15-20k active users, many of whom are multiboxers). I don't want warframe to be like that and im glade DE is dictating the pace even though some players will leave due to disgruntlement, they would have left sooner than later anyway.

 

2. Warframe is my main game that i keep coming back to, break after break, i have nearly 2000 steam hours. I also play diablo3, divison and some survival games with friends from time to time. Game doesn't rule my life, if i want to achieve something serious in game then i just accept the fact that i have to dedicate more time towards warframe. If i don't then im perfectly fine with accepting the fact that i won't have the latest stuff asap, but i will have more time to do whatever else i want, be it in games or real life.

 

3. I also keep playing the game, and it's interesting to see how the game has changed ever since it come out. Maybe, just maybe grindy dungeon crawlers aren't for you ? Maybe YOU have changed since you started playing warframe for the first time and it simply doesn't suit your new tastes anymore.

4. I don't really understand what you are saying here, i also play the game. I just accept the grind and the consequences of my choice of not paying.

DE keeps making things worse. They promise to lower the grind. Nothing. Warframe's main issue is at welcoming new players. There is at least a tutorial, but it doesn't show the real game in any aspect. New players are overwhelmed and most important don't have an access to decent equiment and weaponry.

Talking about issues in Warframe. Warframe's been an open beta for over two years now. It's ridiculous. It's a common excuse for each single problem concerning the gameplay. Missing caches? Open Beta. Voiding out while standing? Open Beta. Missions can't properly be completed? Open f-ing Beta.

Yes I have changed, as you and every human being did. Changes can't be prevented. Of course Warframe changed too. But comparing it to the past, it got worse. Sure, some things became better and more fun, but the overall feeling and joy playing this game is falling apart.

I never said, Warframe is a bad game, it's a rather good one, it really is. But the thing DE makes or doesn't make out of the game isn't good. Yes they're the developers and they make the game. But what's a game without its players? If we should play this game, DE has to make it appealing for us to play. And this got lost.

Warframe used to be a really great game, years ago. Now it's Pay 2 Play. It's a shame, to be honest.

Edited May 18, 2016 by XenoFant

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

grind, shmind... i said it before but here i go again: to me the problem isn't (only) the grind itself (which is just the game concept really), but gameplay being mostly so unengaging while grinding. actually i'm glad vaubs drops 50% from sabotage because looking for caches is actually mixing things up somewhat, it's something you can't "cheese". but t3 surv... AGAIN... christ, it's just so very easy and boring the biggest thread is falling asleep while pressing your win button over and over for 20 minutes minimum. last year my game experience consisted primarily of farming cores at triton with volt. i wouldn't get tired from it because with my setup it was actually entertaining. now that hieracon is the core/key farming place to go i can't stand more than one round a day because the most viable frames against infested are so boring to play with... blah.

tl;dr: grinding while using the same win buttons over and over again = boring and tedious.  grind while being on your toes = time flies, less subjective tedium. i also think that rng could theoretically be somehat softened if everything wasn't so p*ss easy to get.

[Alanbot]

Agree man, at first I cheesed with Valkyr, but it was boring after a few runs. Now I just close my eyes and random pick a frame with a random loadout to at least make the grind for Survival a bit more interesting. It worked to a certain extent, but now I honestly don't even want to set foot in that S#&$hole anymore unless my friends dragged me into it

[Deathbricked]

i find this topic... off in a way?

i fail to see the gap here, unless its pvp everyone and i mean everyone will get vauban prime and the rest as it just came in. i mean. it's not like you have to wait for vauban prime alerts or anything. over time even the most casual player can get vauban and all his stuff. 

unless they literally only have like 20m to play a day/week/month/year. then i think the problem is in another area.

i would understand this topic if warframe was a strict PVP game with PVE as a side element instead. but it ain't. i'm find it extremely hard to find a valid reason to even be angry. unless you just wanted to have vauban p before your mates then fair enough. but in PVE. how does having something that someone over a month that invests like 30m a day or something will get it, actually become a thread like this.

 

i could just as well be completely missing the mark of the post and i apologize there.. 3am hurts my brain.

[KiteoHatto]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

When the ps4 first came out there were few games besides warframe so warframe grew but now when there are many choices its telling that too much grind is shoving players away i.E. Weeks to get parts then days to build then more days to build finished product? Versus non paying play for three days in smite and select god and boom ready to play.

 Too much grind in warframe 

Now excuse me its time for more smite .

You are comparing apples to oranges though, mobas are instant gratification games, dungeon crawler loot games are all about consistently putting hours in to get further and further. Im sure once PS4.5 neo comes(or whatever it will be called) out you'll have some VR games to pick from too, i doubt warframe will ever support VR(its just not the right type of game for it), then you will just move on.

13 minutes ago, XenoFant said:

DE keeps making things worse. They promise to lower the grind. Nothing. Warframe's main issue is at welcoming new players. There is at least a tutorial, but it doesn't show the real game in any apsect. New players are overwhelmed and most important don't have an access to decent equiment and weaponry.

Talking about issues in Warframe. Warframe's been an open beta for over two years now. It's ridiculous. It's a common excuse for each single problem concerning the gameplay. Missing caches? Open Beta. Voiding out while standing? Open Beta. Missions can't properly be completed? Open f-ing Beta.

Yes I have changed, as you and every human being did. Changes can't be prevented. Of course Warframe changed too. But comparing it to the past, it got worse. Sure, some things became better and more fun, but the overall feeling and joy playing this game is falling apart.

I never said, Warframe is a bad game, it's a rather good one, it really is. But the thing DE makes or doesn't make out of the game isn't good. Yes they're the developers and they make the game. But what's a game without its players? If we should play this game, DE has to make it appealing for us to play. And this got lost.

Warframe used to be a really great game, years ago. Now it's Pay 2 Play. It's a shame, to be honest.

I agree with you about DE not delivering on lowering the grind, they are opening themselves to criticism. However, new players don't need instant access to all the latest "good" stuff. Progression and grinding towards something new and better keeps them hooked. At least it was for me when i started, but i find slowly working towards something acceptable in a game that's designed to keep you playing.

Yes, warframe has been in "open beta", but in any game....bugs and glitches will exist. Open beta means that the game is simply not finished but everyone is free to experience it while new stuff gets added. We don't have enough content for all the mastery ranks yet, nevermind what will DE do when they actually hit that point.

The game got worse and that is entirely your opinion. My opinion is that the game changed and i just chose to adapt to it, it might not be the warframe that i started playing but i still enjoy the current one, i just approach it differently. You and I are not wrong, we are just different people with different tastes.

Pay 2 play only applies if you want to play with the latest content on day1. It's the only difference.

Edited May 18, 2016 by kiteohatto

[Rebellis]

2 hours ago, Nijyumensou said:

So you are comparing 2 different genre of game and you think it's fair to do so?

I wasn't comparing. I was contrasting.

[Deathbricked]

5 hours ago, Madho said:

It won't be a turning point.

U19 is already packed with stuff. Domestic Kavats, Volt and Mag reworks, starchart 3.0, and who knows when Excalibur Umbra is coming out. It'd be a miracle if Steve managed to add more progression into the game when everyone's been hyped about Vauban prime and new cosmetic items. Grinding was, is and will be a predominant aspect of Warframe as long as DE stop throwing out gimmicks and actually consider adding more depth to lore and gameplay. Plus, there are tons of things to fix already. Warframe abilities are now either game-breaking or borderline useless, enemy scaling is broken, and the maps are old. We should totally pay attention to how DE intends to blow up the void and scatter prime parts everywhere while we continue our core grind on Triton and Hieracon, MR grind on Draco and a 3 hour grind for Equinox. Good job.

sorry. i just wanna highlight the "Grinding was, is and will be a predominant aspect (insert any game here) warframe". i'm not trying to make this sound sarcastic though. in any RNG based game grinding will always be a thing. imagine if we could get everything as soon as a alert came up for it. or we got a quest for literally every item in warframe.. what happens after we get it all?

 

that aside. i agree with most of the stuff you said here.

[Hatzeputt]

31 minutes ago, kiteohatto said:

I didn't say anything offensive....we are disagreeing, but we are still being civil about it.

1. DE is the man in charge, they choose what changes to implement and they are fully aware that they might lose some players, but they will also retain and bring new players. Look at EvE online, CCP is so focused on retaining vet players that they adjusting the game to suit vets and endgame, new player experience is horrible and that game now has a relatively low playerbase(like....15-20k active users, many of whom are multiboxers). I don't want warframe to be like that and im glade DE is dictating the pace even though some players will leave due to disgruntlement, they would have left sooner than later anyway.

 

2. Warframe is my main game that i keep coming back to, break after break, i have nearly 2000 steam hours. I also play diablo3, divison and some survival games with friends from time to time. Game doesn't rule my life, if i want to achieve something serious in game then i just accept the fact that i have to dedicate more time towards warframe. If i don't then im perfectly fine with accepting the fact that i won't have the latest stuff asap, but i will have more time to do whatever else i want, be it in games or real life.

 

3. I also keep playing the game, and it's interesting to see how the game has changed ever since it come out. Maybe, just maybe grindy dungeon crawlers aren't for you ? Maybe YOU have changed since you started playing warframe for the first time and it simply doesn't suit your new tastes anymore.

4. I don't really understand what you are saying here, i also play the game. I just accept the grind and the consequences of my choice of not paying.

New player experience in EvE online at the moment is worlds better than it used to be, believe it or not. The game is stagnant because they still haven´t figured out how to do the territorial wars in an acceptable way and many alliance who were known for waging aggressive campaigns are gone from the game and got replaced with people who are not interested in large scale space wars but more in isk hoarding.

 

As to the OP:

Fun fact 1: 

You do not need Vauban prime for any content in this game, you do not even need the regular one, yes he can make things easier sometimes but that is about it.In fact you do not need any prime since the regulars ones will do just fine if you slap on some forma

Fun fact 2:

There are plenty of weapons among the the current end game meta that are not even primes (Tonkor, Dread, Lanka, Atterax, Jat Kittag,etc) so you do not need Fragor P or Akstiletto or whatever prime to be competitive. 

 

So which gap is widening? The bragging gap, the show off gap? Probably, but certainly not the competition gap, since you can be competitive while having spend 0 $. 

[XenoFant]

1 minute ago, kiteohatto said:

My opinion is that the game changed and i just chose to adapt to it, it might not be the warframe that i started playing but i still enjoy the current one, i just approach it differently.

And exactly this shouldn't happen. DE forces us to adapt to the game, so we don't criticize it and see all the issues. DE should adapt to us.

Lame Quote Alert!!!

The customer is king, or should be.

[KiteoHatto]

2 minutes ago, XenoFant said:

And exactly this shouldn't happen. DE forces us to adapt to the game, so we don't criticize it and see all the issues. DE should adapt to us.

Lame Quote Alert!!!

The customer is king, or should be.

Customer isn't always right nor are they kings, that's such an outdated saying.

Both, me and you choose to play the game. If the game changes and it doesn't suit you then just don't play it, you aren't forced to play via some official contract bound in blood or something. DE provides entertainment, if it doesn't suit you then just find another company that does cater to you. From my experience though.....if company caters too much then the gamers are quick to take advantage of it and it leads to game dying.(retainment of vets vs influx of new players)

Now, if the game was buy to play and subscription based then yes, DE would have to listen to our feedback a lot whole more, however it's the age of multiplatform f2p and the cycle of new players over retention of bitter vets(or the slight possibility of people quitting for good) is the smarter option for a game company.

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

7 minutes ago, XenoFant said:

And exactly this shouldn't happen. DE forces us to adapt to the game, so we don't criticize it and see all the issues. DE should adapt to us.

Lame Quote Alert!!!

The customer is king, or should be.

Warframe should adapt to fit the tastes of 13 million different players and what they think it the most important?

OK.

[Krjal]

U19 but especially what happens with 'vaulting' will be the main way I determine whether Warframe is worth more of my time and/or money.

If the Prime Vault is really kept in its entirety just to gouge players who might've missed earlier prime items then we'll see where DE is going. And where China has dragged them down to.

[XenoFant]

4 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Warframe should adapt to fit the tastes of 13 million different players and what they think it the most important?

OK.

Well, despite having no interest in arguing with doubtful people, my work is done now.

 

XenoFant's signing out bro,

Peace.

[Tizodd]

49 minutes ago, Genoscythe said:

...The "devs have to feed their families" argument is kinda invalid at this point. If DE have enough funds to make a goddamn Tennocon they have way more than enough...

I'm a "devs have to feed their families" person but I can't deny you make a good argument here.

[Misgenesis]

For each major update, theres post like this.

The 'issue' with DE is that new content is more important than fixing current content. Fixing current content to me is equal to new content but then again, im a 'veteran' so it might not be so for newer players.

So they keep adding to a messy base which has lead to glaring flaws all around the place.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Misgenesis

[(PSN)bulex84]

3 hours ago, kiteohatto said:

People who don't have time to play because of life/work, but still want the latest bells and whistles pay to get it. They can do it because they get paid. (that's me when i have money left over after payday and rent, utilities, food, etc...) It's also a matter of "how much do you like warframe?" i suppose.

People who play the game a lot are able to not pay and just get by through grind, but for free. (that was also me at some point when i was unemployed)

Now, people who don't want to pay or grind are asking for newest stuff to be handed to them on a silver platter week 1.(remember that each PA is like ~1.5 month's worth of content, the other 1.5 month are the alerts, random frame and an event or something).

 

People just don't have the patience and want everything now and easy, then they moan of the forums about being bored and lack of content.

Why is it such a huge problem for you people to take your time with the game and enjoy it ? Treat every fresh PA as a long-ish goal to strive towards and incentive to login and play. Why is it a problem ?

It's ok for them to pay min €30 for Destiny / Division DLC and than grind . Than they don't have a problem with grind :)

[Ailith]

4 hours ago, CapAllan said:

Thought I'd just drop this here.

 

Anyway, I agree with the OP. I've been playing for only a few months and I am already pretty much burned out. My PC can no longer take the strain and nor can my personal life. I understand that you guys got to eat, but please. Ease this burden a bit. We all love this game and I don't want to let it go like this.

 

That video would've had me dying from laughter if I wasn't crying in the fetal position instead...

It's just...too real...

Edited May 18, 2016 by Ailith

[KiteoHatto]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)bulex84 said:

It's ok for them to pay min €30 for Destiny / Division DLC and than grind . Than they don't have a problem with grind :)

Well yeah, because once you've paid for something then you will grind to get your money's worth :D

[Maicael]

The only thing that's changed is there's a few items that don't cater to the "want it now" crowd. Personally, my idea of "farming" is maybe 4 short missions (exterminate, capture, etc) or 1-2 longer missions like 20 waves of defense or 60 min survival in a day before I go and do something else I want to do. If you're going for longer than you enjoy, then you're just punishing yourself to try to obtain a new digital item. It isn't your job to obtain new items. DE won't fire you for not obtaining the new item in a timely manner.

Considering MR 21/22 is available, and the Weapon/Warframe distribution is almost exclusively MR 8 and below (with 7 exceptions out of 256 weapons and 42 Warframes) is something that should be looked at spreading out over currently available mastery ranks. Eventually we should even see MR locks at 20, 25, maybe even 30 just like many games with similar ranking mechanics. If you played a game with 100 levels, would you expect to have 97.65% of the content available at Lvl 36? (That's MR 8 out of current 22)
List of items is here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Mastery_Rank#Equipment_Unlock

 

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

14 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

The 'issue' with DE is that new content is more important than fixing current content.

qft.

[(PSN)GbHaseo]

It's probably been said at this point, but honestly people who only have an hour or so a day to play probably shouldn't be playing this game. It has been known for  a long, long time as Grindrame even before the new harsher requirements. I in most video games an hour a day really doesn't allow you much time to accomplish anything except maybe some pvp games like CoD. I have a family, job, all that good stuff, and I still have about 3hrs a day to play, more if I wanna sacrifice some sleep, which is enough to allow me to either farm, or trade market most things in the game. Coupons also really help, I mean 75% off the stuff in the market makes most things pretty cheap. I buy the occasional Renown Packs for $8 and the plat in that $8 pack usually lasts til the next one.

There may also be finacial reasoning behind it, maybe the last few Prime Accesses haven't sold as well, so they think uping the requirements will get more ppl to buy the game. Maybe by upping the requirements, they hope after people obtain their parts they'll go farm resources, and the market wont get so overflowed like with the Saryn PA. Maybe the resource dumps are their way of try to give ppl something to do between new content drops and to get off Draco I dunno. This is all hypothetical mind you.. It could also be a result of the buyout earlier this year. I know DE kept creative control, but maybe the Chinese owners would like to see more revenue.. who knows.

For me it boils down to this.. New content is the only thing that keeps me playing. Once you obtain everything, there's not much reason to play the same missions over and over, this gives me a reason to play those missions. Yeah new players aren't getting the new shinies that fast, but how much of an issue is that really? They say the farm is terrible, but that's really all Warframe is.. farming. What are you going to go do with those new shinies? Farm, for whatever it is you need. So whether you farm now or later, what's the difference? Ppl are mad the new shinies require a lot more work, they want them now, don't wanna pay, don't wanna farm. I mean even Oxium has a farm. It's not that bad.

[Tekky]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)GbHaseo said:

It's probably been said at this point, but honestly people who only have an hour or so a day to play probably shouldn't be playing this game. It has been known for  a long, long time as Grindrame even before the new harsher requirements. I in most video games an hour a day really doesn't allow you much time to accomplish anything except maybe some pvp games like CoD. I have a family, job, all that good stuff, and I still have about 3hrs a day to play, more if I wanna sacrifice some sleep, which is enough to allow me to either farm, or trade market most things in the game. Coupons also really help, I mean 75% off the stuff in the market makes most things pretty cheap. I buy the occasional Renown Packs for $8 and the plat in that $8 pack usually lasts til the next one.

There may also be finacial reasoning behind it, maybe the last few Prime Accesses haven't sold as well, so they think uping the requirements will get more ppl to buy the game. Maybe by upping the requirements, they hope after people obtain their parts they'll go farm resources, and the market wont get so overflowed like with the Saryn PA. Maybe the resource dumps are their way of try to give ppl something to do between new content drops and to get off Draco I dunno. This is all hypothetical mind you.. It could also be a result of the buyout earlier this year. I know DE kept creative control, but maybe the Chinese owners would like to see more revenue.. who knows.

For me it boils down to this.. New content is the only thing that keeps me playing. Once you obtain everything, there's not much reason to play the same missions over and over, this gives me a reason to play those missions. Yeah new players aren't getting the new shinies that fast, but how much of an issue is that really? They say the farm is terrible, but that's really all Warframe is.. farming. What are you going to go do with those new shinies? Farm, for whatever it is you need. So whether you farm now or later, what's the difference? Ppl are mad the new shinies require a lot more work, they want them now, don't wanna pay, don't wanna farm. I mean even Oxium has a farm. It's not that bad.

I couldn't phrase it better myself.

[PsionicSt0rm]

Not sure if this has been said in this long thread buuut...

We have to consider that this is VAUBAN Prime. A frame exclusive to alerts. If people where to be able to unlock Vauban Prime before Vauban himself, something has gone wrong.
Having Vauban Prime being MORE accessible than Vauban is a BAD thing, it makes Vauban irrelevant.
The issue of a gap might be present, but to say that Vauban Prime is clear evidence to this is not completely true. Perhaps there is some semblance to this but if we compare it to Vauban, then there isn't THAT much of a gap, considering that Vauban parts itself is entirely based on RNG whilst Nitain can be farmed for.

[Nijyumensou]

1 hour ago, matto said:

A lot of very constructive and interesting replies. I won't be able to reply to everything but I'll choose some parts that are directly related to the thread.

They are supposed to be not limited. However, how many times did the vault open? How many frames are there now? And do we know if Frost Prime will ever get back to the game with the reopen of the vault? At this pace, if it stays as it is, new players will probably never see Frost Prime again. And for the argument of the drop tables dilution, you could find a lot of threads explaining how to ease it with keeping the grind aspect, by simply making a better distribution of the items. And not even mentioning the space available in the Orokin Derelict. As you said, a permanent solution is SUPPOSED to come. But hey, how many times did an idea fall into the abyss of the devs' stillborn ideas. But yes, if everything goes in that direction, as you described, then it's fine.

Sorry, thought you didn't read. What I'm pointing out is not really the fact that there's incentives to make people purchase the PA, but more that it went too far with this last one. Grinding is what it is, the game revolves around it. It's not supposed to go away just like this for the sake that we must get everything now and for free. Anyone who thinks that it was my opinion misunderstood what I said. Also, I am not here to find another way for them to get income, that's really not my role. However, what I suggested in the end of my thread is that grind should be balanced by adding fun. What I mean by fun is challenge, new gameplay, goals that are not just about the grind. For that matter, I am truly excited by Lunaro. I've been waiting for such a game mode for too long now (blitzball fan). We'll get something refreshing that is a new game mode and is (I suppose) not a place for grind. Except for those potential PvP trophy or cosmetics, but Lunaro will be fun before anything else. That's my point : you want to make it a grindfest? No problem, just give me something else to do then so I don't get tired. You can even ease the "prime accessories" for those who don't purchase it by creating new and shiny stuff via Baro. But at the moment, the only way to get nice cosmetics is either buy PA or rely on Tennogen. Which is what I am going to do : giving my money for the Tennogen item. At least, even if Steam and DE get a part of that money, a nice player or artist will get some.

All my respect for acting like this. You're definitely another kind of player. I met people like you before, but I guess I like too much the Orokin era lore to just let primes go. It's a matter of aesthetic seriously, just that. But I guess your way of playing Warframe is going to get more and more common. You're just a precursor who understood that you don't have to get it too serious. Amen to that :) And you know, I've been around for more than 3 years now, still MR 18, not bothering getting everything in game. Playing at my own pace. But for me prime is a big deal, especially the frames.

I think that even among the devs, this subject of grind and time walls is a sensitive matter. As I said, I don't blame some of the most famous devs of the game as I used to know what they truly thought about those matters. But Warframe became a strong and solid economic income for a studio that is not owned by them (even if some of them have shares, or had), and was "taken over" by a larger company. There are economic stakes that are way beyond their intention. Just check DE's recent growth and what Warframe meant for an independent studio and all the kind-of start-up strategy behind it.

I don't know how to feel about that mate. I still buy plats when I can (meaning when I have some savings for it and a coupon to make an efficient purchase). The founders pack was the only PA I bought so far. At that time, I thought about supporting them, but I won't say I wasn't interested by Excalibur Prime. That was a good 50% of the reason why I bought it. Now, I wouldn't mind getting another paying system if content follows. Right now I can't afford PA, games are crazy with those prices anyway, and will keep supporting the game by buying Tennogen skins whenever I meet a good and nice artist/player. They do awesome things, they need to be supported. I remember one thing : this game is/was supposed to be developed with the community. Time to support this community. I don't know if I answer to your question, but I don't feel the need to pay for something I can get for free at the moment. If they would release a new kind of founders pack now, I don't think I would buy it because I don't feel like supporting a strategy that I dislike.

You're right. As you said you're "new", but you understand this. For players that have been playing Warframe for a while now, it gets more like a chore as someone wise said in this thread. And that's the problem : when the grind becomes so heavy that can't handle it anymore. When fun is killed by it. So there's one solution as a lot of people said : play the game for the fun of it and that's all. I agree, I do. Only problem for me : game needs improvement soon enough as it feels broken in many aspects. Anyway, you'll have to spend a lot of time to finally feel like this. Don't listen to me or other tired "veterans" and enjoy Warframe please. This Universe is awesome in itself.

 

That's all the replies I can write atm. Thanks everyone for contributing, arguing and making this thread interesting enough.

Oh, another thing, I agree that there should be this logic : if you can't handle the grind, there's purchasing the pack. Just don't cross the border of "let's make most people not being able to handle it so more people will buy it". At some point, it won't work anymore and people will loose interests and just leave. Not saying it crossed the line yet, but it's on a good way to that point. I know that F2P game developers like to test their player base to know how much they can handle, and what's the best they can get from them in term of income. But going too far is a double-edged sword.

Reality talk.

A.) Well,I don't think any company with the right mind will push player to do microtransaction just to test player money power on a F2P game. They are probably try to make PA more attractive because of plausible financial problem (people don't become stakeholders to lose money) which of course they won't tell anyone since that will affect alot of things.

B.)  Well,you can tell that old prime item (not vaulted ones)are getting cheaper quicker compared when you just started and with the increase of the proud 0 cash spent grinder, 4k platinum can probably last you a year or more if you play on a regular basis (unless you started on collectibles or rare lotus kubrow).

C.) Before, it was a F2P game for the community but as you know it didn't turn out well for them financially.Now, they are collaborating with other companies which turn them into a business because they have to keep their collaborators happy with the increasing number of the profit table in order to keep the game alive. 

I understand that you as gamer may not be concerned about the above because it is the content that you are bothered with it but you have to come to terms that the game ideology is no longer the same as before which is why I bought up a system similar to VIP access to keep money rolling while letting player enjoy a much better content (pay2enjoy). As a game that solely make profit base on microtransaction and goodie sale, if b.) situation continue and there doesn't seem to be a way to improve profit, they may probably just sell the game to bigger gaming company to run it...