In Depth Chroma Changes: Full on Rework Suggestions (Updated 6/30/2016)

[hukurokuju5]

- 5% status strength is so small....... trivial addition?

- issue with spectral scream, aside from the terrible usability of it and DOT, is that you trade your vexarmor enhanced weapon damage for an unenhanced weak DOT.  

 

I think he should be given a taunt on 1 with additional effects based on elemental pick.  4 should also be given some kind of aggro radius.  aggro control would synergize well with his "take damage / deal more damage" theme on vex armor

[Lupiz]

What if chromas passive was that he gained emebers, saryns, frosts, or volts passive depending on his energy color

[Gurpgork]

3 minutes ago, Lupiz said:

What if chromas passive was that he gained emebers, saryns, frosts, or volts passive depending on his energy color

I've heard that before, and I actually quite like that idea. Volt's could create some very interesting playstyles. I guess the only problem with that is how Chroma would actually be a much better user of Ember's passive than she would be, since Chroma could actually survive a fire proc. 

[Sajochi]

I'll try and organize my thoughts here and respond accordingly. A bit disappointed at the latest passive announcement but this actually puts a smile on my face.

I see no issue with each element providing differing effects from "survive all the things." @Gurpgork let's see if we can flesh those out more. I like Ice where it is currently. Heat could be increased heal rate and offense as opposed to more health. Like a rejuvination buff that could even help allies. Electric should really gain the reload and holster speed with the arcing volts. Toxin is purely a damage boost and aura. I'll think it over more and add to the OP so if you have anything else, feel free to share.

As for the status passive, I kept it low to not make it broken. Seeing as ash is getting 25% bonuses on slash, I can increase that to 10s and 20% strength and not feel too bad. Hell, couple it with the bullet glide passive if it sounds appealing.

SS is still being tricky, but I reread another thread. What if it scaled with Vex Armors damage buff, but we drop the proposed 10% hp bonus damage. Maybe allow Effigy to scale too but drop ramp up damage and propose a different augment. What do you guys think? I'll be making necessary edits in the morning.

And I'll be on the no side letting Chroma have the passives of his components depending on energy color. I think the current propositions are pretty good and I think we should focus more on synergy in his kit.

[Gurpgork]

1 hour ago, CrazyCortex said:

@Gurpgork let's see if we can flesh those out more. I like Ice where it is currently. Heat could be increased heal rate and offense as opposed to more health. Like a rejuvination buff that could even help allies. Electric should really gain the reload and holster speed with the arcing volts. Toxin is purely a damage boost and aura. I'll think it over more and add to the OP so if you have anything else, feel free to share.

I was thinking more along the lines of working with what's already there, but I suppose some of these are pretty good ideas.

Ice I agree is fine.

For Fire, I thought that it should just have greatly increased status chance, so that it could almost become a mini World on Fire. And probably buff the damage a bit.

Electricity I thought was mostly fine where it was, but giving it the ability stats would be interesting. The only concern I have there is overloading the ability-- Electric arcs + Shield buff + reload speed + faster holster rate. I think they should probably all stay at two effects each for the most part. 

Giving Toxin just a straight damage boost seems a bit... Generic. Maybe it could have some sort of status oriented bonus? Something like maybe a weaker version of Toxic Lash? I had actually been thinking that it could provide a fire rate bonus. No other ability boosts weapon fire rate, so it would be something unique. 

[Sajochi]

Maybe fire is higher status chance/damage with the aura? It's basically the first passive in an ability which means I can drop that suggestion.

For electricity, we can see about dropping shield buff for the holster/reload speed. Shields only use on Chroma is to stack Vex Armor, but you generally want no shield to start stacking fury. Having low shield values are a plus.

I like your idea for toxic. I'll go with that. Thank you for the feedback.

Edited May 26, 2016 by CrazyCortex

[Aquasurge]

On 5/24/2016 at 4:27 PM, Cytobel said:

Alright, while I might par back on a few of the numbers here and there, as well as say "no" to a platform Effigy (dabbled in game design, and the thought of collision detection on a castable gives me hives), I must generally give a thumbs up.

Chroma has be a chronic underperformer in my eyes, mainly because the possibilities offered by selectable elements were buried under a mountain of niggling little issues reguarding constantly repainting my 'Frame and gear for each mission against different foes.  Having ANY method of swapping elements in his kit is attractive as hell, and finding uses for Spectral Scream and Effigy was a headache as well.

I think some devs need to give this one serious consideration.  There's enough here to consider for a rework to be justified, but lets allow Damage 3.0 to drop first.  No sense reworking damage values 'til enemy scaling has seen that upcoming once-over.

well then again, Electric shield is a wall latch platform.

BTW love the suggested changes to chroma CrazyCortex.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Aquasurge

[Sajochi]

14 hours ago, Aquasurge said:

BTW love the suggested changes to chroma CrazyCortex.

Thank you. I love this frame but I really want to see him in a spot the devs and community can agree on. 

I applied the changes. decided to make electric grant a fire rate and melee attack speed buff over a shield buff, and allowing toxin to keep it's current function. So it fits like this

• Cold is your survival tool
• Heat is your status tool
• Electric is your burst damage tool
• Toxin is your sustain damage tool

I'm still not certain about these and would like more feedback.

Edit: just thought of something. what if the each aura had a distinctive thing about it. Not just tied to stats. Ice keeps defense (armor increase, maybe health or shield buff), fire is about offense (crit and status damage), electric is for guns(fire rate, reload) and toxin is about melee (atk speed and movement). Does that sound cool? Gives Chroma good choices in different situations and allows versatility.

Edited May 27, 2016 by CrazyCortex

[(PSN)Iudex_Nemesis]

Personally I'd scrap effigy and just make chroma grow a pair of wings allowing him to hover across the ground, breathing fire (or whatever element he's using) and roaring, you know....like a dragon.

He's a beast frame so why doesn't he turn into one.

[--Sokol]

Loving the ideas behind this rework. Hopefully Chroma gets some love soon (although the list is quite long, I know).

I like your Effigy rework but also wouldn't mind this:

1 hour ago, (PS4)Snakeboy1990 said:

Personally I'd scrap effigy and just make chroma grow a pair of wings allowing him to hover across the ground, breathing fire (or whatever element he's using) and roaring, you know....like a dragon.

He's a beast frame so why doesn't he turn into one.

 

[Sajochi]

The only issue with that is the limited indoor space to "fly". It sounds great on paper, but in terms of practicality it may get a bit hard to pull off on certain tiles. The upcoming fairy frame is supposed to get this feature and is confirmed to shrink in size. Chroma is quite a bulky frame and feels the part. I'll add it as a secondary suggestion to allow more discussion still. I just wanted to explain a limitation.

[Olianu]

While you have some good ideas such as with the passives, the quiver idea is a terrible mechanic and would completely get rid of the point of calling him Chroma.  The way I see him is that he is not meant to swap elements in mid mission because he's a plan ahead style of frame and should stay that way.  The reason it works on Ivara and Vauban is because they are more tactic oriented frames.

I, for one like Vex Armor/Elemental ward remaining two separate two differing abilities due to the fact that both are solid and reliable.  He's meant to be both team oriented and solo because while this game IS team friendly, don't forget the people that choose to/have no choice but to play solo due to poor internet connections.  Sometimes it's okay to have a frame that isn't party oriented in case of such things (I should know, I had no choice but to solo play for over two months when I first started due to connection issues with the game itself.)

His spectral scream and Effigy could use polishing.  

With the exception of the quiver toggle, I agree on punch through and scaling would make sense for his vex armor.  You would think it would scale and his scream would be more deadly the more damage he takes and the closer to death he can get.

Effigy's energy drain does need a cut to make it more viable as a sentry... or be more like Frost's Snow Globe:  Cast energy, starts at 100% health and gets dropped.  But leave the call back potential at any given time.

[mkwabo]

I don't think heat and electric should loose there respective health and shield buff. Those are incredibly useful when it comes to tanking. The health buff gives you more effective health and pairs well with rage. While the shield buff helps you increase your scorn buff to max. If you remove those Ice no doubt would be more popular than it already is. As for the faster fire rate and faster melee attack speed give those to toxin. Toxin feels very niche right now where it requires specific weapon setup to see the most benefit. Its also seems to be the least popular among Chroma users due to the fact, like your current ideas, seems to focus on status and doesn't have any health attributes that synergies with vex armor. I feel that if you gave those buffs to toxin it would truly help it stand out as an element. 

Chroma fanatic

Edited May 27, 2016 by mkwabo
Grammar correction

[Sajochi]

24 minutes ago, Olianu said:

While you have some good ideas such as with the passives, the quiver idea is a terrible mechanic and would completely get rid of the point of calling him Chroma.  The way I see him is that he is not meant to swap elements in mid mission because he's a plan ahead style of frame and should stay that way.  The reason it works on Ivara and Vauban is because they are more tactic oriented frames.

I, for one like Vex Armor/Elemental ward remaining two separate two differing abilities due to the fact that both are solid and reliable.  He's meant to be both team oriented and solo because while this game IS team friendly, don't forget the people that choose to/have no choice but to play solo due to poor internet connections.  Sometimes it's okay to have a frame that isn't party oriented in case of such things (I should know, I had no choice but to solo play for over two months when I first started due to connection issues with the game itself.)

His spectral scream and Effigy could use polishing.  

With the exception of the quiver toggle, I agree on punch through and scaling would make sense for his vex armor.  You would think it would scale and his scream would be more deadly the more damage he takes and the closer to death he can get.

Effigy's energy drain does need a cut to make it more viable as a sentry... or be more like Frost's Snow Globe:  Cast energy, starts at 100% health and gets dropped.  But leave the call back potential at any given time.

As much as I want to agree, I really don't see a reason why Chroma shouldn't be able to switch elements. The current mechanic has been called tedious and annoying and I agree in that regard. Having to plan ahead for missions is cool, but sometimes you need to make a decision on the fly. That's why I strongly believe Chroma should gain a quiver mechanic, but altered with how it's activated so it doesn't feel as cumbersome as quiver.

You may have something with effigy. Would it be based off a charge or just set and forget with a base HP+Power Strength?

17 minutes ago, mkwabo said:

I don't think heat and electric should loose there respective health and shield buff. Those are incredibly useful when it comes to tanking. The health buff gives you more effective health and pairs well with rage. While the shield buff helps you increase your scorn buff to max. If you remove those Ice no doubt would be more popular than it already is. As for the faster fire rate and faster melee attack speed give those to toxin. Toxin feels very niche right now where it requires specific weapon setup to see the most benefit. Its also seems to be the least popular among Chroma users simply kinda of like your current ideas seems to focus on status and doesn't have any health attributes that synergies with vex armor. I feel that if you gave those buffs to toxin it would truly help it stand out as an element. 

Chroma fanatic

Yeah, I wasn't really feeling the changes on EW elements, but glad Toxin has someone who agrees on it. I can adjust accordingly so Chroma would have the basic options available. Toxin never really felt like it fit in the kit and was kind of tossed in there, so I'll keep this proposed change in.

Changed the OP

Edited May 27, 2016 by CrazyCortex

[mkwabo]

I re-read the OP. I'd suggest instead of trading out the buffs for toxin, why not add them? So toxin would have increased reload, holster, fire rate, and attack speed.  This would definitely give people more incentive to use toxin. Now I assume you might be worried about power creep, however this is not offering Chroma  anymore survivability, he simply will be able to deal damage more consistently, not to mention faster fire rate would synergies well with faster reload. It could be argued that he gains survivability by killing the enemy consistently. However, I can't imagine any weapon setup that would make this suggestion game breaking due to infinite enemy scaling and weapon damage falling off anyway. If you're worried about early game, my response to that would be that most of the star chart is easy enough that any frame could complete it no problem, with or without these suggested changes.

Chroma fanatic

Edited May 27, 2016 by mkwabo

[Sajochi]

4 minutes ago, mkwabo said:

I re-read the OP. I'd suggest instead of trading out the buffs for toxin, why not add them? So toxin would have increased reload, holster, fire rate, and attack speed.  This would definitely give people more incentive to use toxin. Now I assume you might be worried about power creep, however this is not offering Chroma  anymore survivability, he simply will be able to deal damage more consistently, not to mention faster fire rate would synergies well with faster reload. It could be argued that he gains survivability by killing the enemy consistently. However, I can't imagine any weapon setup that would make this suggestion game breaking due to infinite enemy scaling and weapon damage falling of anyway. If you're worried about early game, my response to that would be that most of the star chart is easy enough that any frame could complete it no problem, with or without these suggested changes.

Chroma fanatic

Damn you and your persuasion. I was worried about power creep, but you make some excellent points. I'll make the fast edit now. Thank you for the feedback, it is highly appreciated.

Edit made

Edited May 27, 2016 by CrazyCortex

[mkwabo]

2 minutes ago, CrazyCortex said:

Damn you and your persuasion. I was worried about power creep, but you make some excellent points. I'll make the fast edit now. Thank you for the feedback, it is highly appreciated.

No problem, I enjoy working together with the community to create a better game experience. 

[(XBOX)BluAina]

Dam am I the only one who likes toxic chroma? Love that reload speed 

[Sajochi]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)VTG xSTEVIEx said:

Dam am I the only one who likes toxic chroma? Love that reload speed 

It's not that we don't like it, it's just in a weird place. Just want to enhance it a little.

[Olianu]

1 hour ago, CrazyCortex said:

 The current mechanic has been called tedious and annoying and I agree in that regard. Having to plan ahead for missions is cool, but sometimes you need to make a decision on the fly. That's why I strongly believe Chroma should gain a quiver mechanic, but altered with how it's activated so it doesn't feel as cumbersome as quiver.

I don't find it tedious at all and I will repeat:  it gets rid of the reason he's called Chroma (Greek for color.)  I found that the quiver mechanic is much more irritating and a pain to use than planning for a mission ahead of time, or having a favorite loadout and just making a loadout slot for that frame.  I have died many more times as Ivara because I couldn't get the right arrow to toggle over and it counted as a fire due to a ping spike or lag I'm experiencing than just taking chroma and activating his elemental ward and go.  In most cases it's just a swap between A, B, or C coloration before a match.  That takes almost no time.

The ONLY way it would make sense is if you can change full appearence sets in mid mission, to which I would ask the Devs if we can have a D slot coloration or it be a toggle between the two/three colors you've set ahead a time.

[Gurpgork]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Snakeboy1990 said:

Personally I'd scrap effigy and just make chroma grow a pair of wings allowing him to hover across the ground, breathing fire (or whatever element he's using) and roaring, you know....like a dragon.

He's a beast frame so why doesn't he turn into one.

He's more of a dragon knight than a dragon, wearing a dragon pelt like a trophy, a lot like Heracles wearing the pelt of the Nemean Lion. I really like Effigy thematically, and it would be a shame to see it go in favor of something so... Expected. 

[(XBOX)BluAina]

4 minutes ago, CrazyCortex said:

It's not that we don't like it, it's just in a weird place. Just want to enhance it a little.

Ah I see, add your other buffs then as well as reload haha

[Olianu]

1 hour ago, CrazyCortex said:

You may have something with effigy. Would it be based off a charge or just set and forget with a base HP+Power Strength?

It would be based on HP/Power Strength 

[Sajochi]

10 hours ago, Olianu said:

It would be based on HP/Power Strength 

That can be a nice change or incredibly broken. Maybe the HP is Chroma's base HP multiplied by power strength. The armor value would probably be the armor Chroma loses on cast x power strength. Since I already suggested Effigy has increased aggro, it's more likely to get targeted anyways which can keep it in check, but it can survive a bit before dropping. Increasing aggro range might be a good way to compensate. 

The other thing I'm worried about is it could be called free damage, so I would like more opinions on it.

Quote

I don't find it tedious at all and I will repeat:  it gets rid of the reason he's called Chroma (Greek for color.)  I found that the quiver mechanic is much more irritating and a pain to use than planning for a mission ahead of time, or having a favorite loadout and just making a loadout slot for that frame.  I have died many more times as Ivara because I couldn't get the right arrow to toggle over and it counted as a fire due to a ping spike or lag I'm experiencing than just taking chroma and activating his elemental ward and go.  In most cases it's just a swap between A, B, or C coloration before a match.  That takes almost no time.

The ONLY way it would make sense is if you can change full appearence sets in mid mission, to which I would ask the Devs if we can have a D slot coloration or it be a toggle between the two/three colors you've set ahead a time.

I have no idea how I managed to miss this, but I detailed a alternate cast method for a quiver mechanic. it works on a key-combo system rather than a cycle system. I'll try to explain it best I can:

1. Press 1 to activate "Change Element" mode. It lasts 3s. Doing nothing doesn't change the element.
2. Press 1-4 to swap to the corresponding element
   1. Heat
   2. Cold
   3. Electric
   4. Toxin
3. Hold 1 to breathe your element of choice

I know there is some kind of buffer system in place so you don't accidentally activate one feature or the other for Ivara. Makes the tap/hold feel more or less smooth. The only way this can work for Chroma is if the above system is adopted. I'm also not asking that we remove energy color becomes element of choice, it will just determine the element you start the mission with. Completely up to you whether or not you want to swap elements.

I've also edited the OP with your effigy ideas under debatable.

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by CrazyCortex

[Olianu]

12 hours ago, CrazyCortex said:

That can be a nice change or incredibly broken. Maybe the HP is Chroma's base HP multiplied by power strength. The armor value would probably be the armor Chroma loses on cast x power strength. Since I already suggested Effigy has increased aggro, it's more likely to get targeted anyways which can keep it in check, but it can survive a bit before dropping. Increasing aggro range might be a good way to compensate. 

As you mentioned and as I thought; If it's drawing aggro for itself it would keep the power of the effigy in check easily by taking on damage from many sources.  And yeah, the aggro range (does it even draw aggro now?) is increidibly.... short.

 

12 hours ago, CrazyCortex said:

I'm also not asking that we remove energy color becomes element of choice, it will just determine the element you start the mission with. Completely up to you whether or not you want to swap elements.

It didn't quite read as such in my head until you said it here.  Thanks for making that part much more clear.