Press 4 To Kill Everything!

[nakatotaiyou]

there are many times when using an uber is not the best choice depending on the frame you use, and other times it is. for example ash's uber is only useful if enemy groups are too spread out otherwise you can take care things faster with shuriken, smokecreen and your weapons. frost is better off casting ice wave than avalanche depending on the enemies' and his positioning because it simply kills faster, then you have the energy management advantages and the fact that they become useless(other than stunning enemies) at higher levels. its about using everything at the right time, not spamming ubers... so yeah i dont think uber's need a change, at least not yours, especially since they cost 100 energy and their usefulness depends on the situation.

[Hollow_Knight]

1) Hmmm.... maybe...

2) Nah

3) Why not just a harder mode where enemies don't insta-die from your ultimate? (Like high level defense missions past wave 20)

Edited June 16, 2013 by Hollow_Knight

[TheGameYouJustLostIt]

Try it in a T3 Void mission. Nope.

[Cauldrath]

The fact that ubers don't work well in high-level missions is an additional problem with them, it doesn't at all affect the fact that these abilities are boring and mindless to use and even more boring to play with someone else using. They need to fix the scaling on them so they are worth using at every stage of the game AND do something to encourage using other abilities, like buffing other damage abilities like Shock and putting a health cost on the room-clearing ubers.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Cauldrath

[Kortanul]

It's called a "cool down" my friend and yes I might maybe could see implementing a CD on some abilities, (certainly better then having to try to charge while your busy shooting things) but then the question becomes which ones and why? Cause not all #4 buttons are created equal. And also some abilities almost have to be spammed. When I use slash dash (granted not a #4) on my Excalibur the very least I do is two in a row because if I do one I find my self on the wrong side of enemy lines so I flip a 180 and slash dash back to my buddies. Also some #4s only hit a certain number of enemies, some #4 (like banshee) really looses steam at higher levels and leaves the player vulnerable while the skill is going off. You would almost have to sit down and come up with some way of quantifying the pros and cons of each ability and set a CD for each individual skill. Boy howdy would this form light up then.  -_-  And then of course if they did do that there would probably be a mod to lessen CD time and then we'd be right back where we started.

 

I think this whole thread is summed up more by playstyle then anything else. I roll with on my Excalibur with a Vauban mate and we rarely drop our 4s unless we need it. I guess we just enjoy shooting things more cause we seem to walk by a lot of energy. But other frames that are more "caster" like Ember and Volt seem to have been designed with the idea that they will be using their skills more. If you limit the use of those skills what then becomes the point of these caster frames? Might as well just build a Rhino and use your guns for everything.

Not referring to a standard CD, more a momentary period after the skill's effects where you can't do anything as your frame recovers--extend the ability animation with some fluff to legitimize it without looking like some idiot just afking. I don't think the standard "lolnoultforfiveminutes" CD would work in Warframe, that sort would ruin the game. By implementing a rest period via extended animation you could easily tailor it to each ability and even make some look cooler.

[Vyaldyn]

Not referring to a standard CD, more a momentary period after the skill's effects where you can't do anything as your frame recovers--extend the ability animation with some fluff to legitimize it without looking like some idiot just afking. I don't think the standard "lolnoultforfiveminutes" CD would work in Warframe, that sort would ruin the game. By implementing a rest period via extended animation you could easily tailor it to each ability and even make some look cooler.

With invulnerability during that extended animation, you would be essentially taken out of the game for a short duration for using your ultimate. Not exactly optimal.

 

Without invulnerability during the extended animation, you would most likely die on any higher level mission, rendering it a suicide button instead of a panic button.

 

If you managed to kill everyone with it, you would now be behind from your group making rushing even bigger problem.

 

The balance on ultimates is not fine as it is, but I don't think a longer recovery animation or traditional cooldown periods are the way to go at all. In my opinion, the correct way would be making the current ultimates cost more energy. They should cost at least 150 energy depending on the ability itself. In addition, a 5th ability should be added for all frames that would be also a '4th ability'. This 5th ability would be less powerful and different than the ultimate ability, costing less energy (100 max). This 5th ability would act as the 4th ability for those without flow or rank 30.

 

A 50% increase in energy cost would put off most ability spam. You would need to completely dedicate your whole squad for it sacrificing a lot of durability and utility.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

People have this thing. It's called willpower. If you don't like using ultimates then just don't equip them, or moderate their use. If you don't like spamming ultimates then...don't?

[gimmemoney09]

easy solution is play higher level games

[gimmemoney09]

especially void 3 missions, I've used ult's and they bare help. The idea was play smart and fight it out.

[luanle21]

And not bullet sponge difficult either. We need enemies with powerful 'spells' and weapons that can be dodged, but murder the S#&$ out of you if you don't move fast.

just add in a grineer machine crap that mass produce rollers at 2 every 4 sec and can tank around 1.5k dmg (can spawn up to 20 rollers)

a infected thats vomits on u which slow u take extra dmg and also put u as top kill list (even higher then a loki decoy, saryn molt, + iron skin combine aggro lv)

bunch of mini moa which can swarm (no guns just ther cute kicks) and goes BOOM on death like a runner would but also freeze u for 3 sec

[fatpig84]

especially void 3 missions, I've used ult's and they bare help. The idea was play smart and fight it out.

 

For excal its a death sentence since he stands there for like 3 seconds acting all cool.

[WhisperByte]

just add in a grineer machine crap that mass produce rollers at 2 every 4 sec and can tank around 1.5k dmg (can spawn up to 20 rollers)

a infected thats vomits on u which slow u take extra dmg and also put u as top kill list (even higher then a loki decoy, saryn molt, + iron skin combine aggro lv)

bunch of mini moa which can swarm (no guns just ther cute kicks) and goes BOOM on death like a runner would but also freeze u for 3 sec

Stunlock, slow and more stunlock? You would be a great game designer

[KoP123]

ults aren't emergency buttons they are also ULTS meant to provided large amount of power, some players choice to build their frame so they can cast more than shoot that is up to them as well, as others before me said if you don't like players like that find players like yourself and go play without always using ults. they seem fine to me, you can use them when you need to or you can go in shooting, also depends on your mood, dont try and change something just because it doesn't suit your style..

[Vyaldyn]

People have this thing. It's called willpower. If you don't like using ultimates then just don't equip them, or moderate their use. If you don't like spamming ultimates then...don't?

The problem with that is that your willpower has no effect on people you play with. It is a co-op game, right?

[Malitias]

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I haven't seen anyone "spamming" his 4 in any way other than defense missions (Vauban's cc field).

And that was once. A 50E ability, sure. But a 4? Spamming? I guess I'm missing something as there seem to be a lot of people talking about it.

 

Room-cleaning abilities are somewhat  strange to use imo. You heavily rely on the drop of the orbs. In a small room with like 10+ enemies and some lootboxes, yea, you use the ability and your energy is very likely to be back to max.

 

The problem I think that is being spoken about is another

 

A room full of hard enemies is meant to be a challenge. Should be about positioning, taking out the vital enemies and granting each other cover.

Right now however, you can usually go to these rooms and everyone can use their heavy AoE-Dmg or Stun and actually having cleaned that room faster than the previous ones in which the ult might have not been of too much use.

So the result is:

 

1-3 enemies: drive-by

4-6 enemies: some shooting and stabbing, getting knocked back if you're melee

7-9 enemies: quite some fighting unless someone uses his 4.

 

10-w/e enemies: ulti-by

 

This makes big enemy encounters more like a firework festival, rather than an extreme challenge.

 

I do NOT say "nerf ults they make game easy as trolol", what I say is that big enemy encounters do not do what they are maybe intended to do.

 

 

And by the way. The game is still a beta and as such it needs feedback. So there's nothing wrong with anyone saying what experience they have made so far, no matter their progress or whatever.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

The problem with that is that your willpower has no effect on people you play with. It is a co-op game, right?

Stop playing with randoms?

[Tsukinoki]

If you dont like people just spamming their ults all the time find a group of players that dont, add them to your contacts, and play with them more than joining random groups.

Most of the groups I join dont spam ults unless it is needed. The last time my standard group spammed ults was in a room that spawned 6 high level ancient disrupters and a lot of other enemies. Apparently my group is an aberration because we actually use all of our abilities as we need them, even abilities like shield polarize and such.

The only ult that I will "spam" in large groups (and by that I mean use maybe 5 times in a single mission) is vaubans vortex, and that is mainly to cover our backs from a horde of charging infested while we deal with what's in front of us.

Because of how reliant this game is on co-op you have to work to find people that matches your playstyle. And just because you dont like to spam your ults doesn't mean that the option to do so should be taken away from everyone else as YOU can choose not to spam YOUR ults and it would be just fine.

A person who builds their frame around being able to throw out ults all the time should be able to spam them a bit as they are sacrificing survivability to be able to do that. Furthermore what about the high wave count defense missions where the ults are really the only way of slowing down enemies and damaging large groups so that they are easier to take out with gunplay? You cant just say to slap on a CD or recovery animation at the end that would work for medium level play without considering what it would do to high level play.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[fatpig84]

The downside currently is Damage skills don't scale to level.

 

What might be an instant kill at low or mid levels, at high levels suddenly require you to cast your ultimate skills multiple times just to kill some mooks or even slow them down. In effect it becomes the panic button that we all need. CC and gunplay becomes more and more important, so caster frames that lack powerful buffs or debuffs will start getting hurt real bad endgame.

 

Currently DE has no plans to buff up skills for high end play, until that is fixed, we should not rush into the nerf ultimate bandwagon "cos it makes things too easy hurr".

[Phoenix86]

Or how about we get some actually difficult content instead? Wow, I'm a genius!

 

P.S. Every time someone cries "nerf" there a baby getting drowned in a bag. Not a kitty, a baby.

 

^ this

 

You are not having fun because others are having fun and you want others to not have fun? GL, have fun solo.

[Vyaldyn]

Stop playing with randoms?

I don't play with random people. I either solo or play with friends or clanmates. But you can't balance a game around the notion that you need to have friends to play with. That alienates a lot of people and goes against the idea of proper online matchmaking and making new friends, which is what online games try to achieve (or at least should achieve) as we live in a social world.

 

 

Or how about we get some actually difficult content instead? Wow, I'm a genius!

 

P.S. Every time someone cries "nerf" there a baby getting drowned in a bag. Not a kitty, a baby.

 

 

More difficult content is a must - that is true. A nerf is not required for these abilities, but the ability to spam them should be removed. Make them more powerful with a higher energy cost. More scaling to the damage would be nice to see, too.

[luanle21]

Stunlock, slow and more stunlock? You would be a great game designer

or we could have something thats shot at use 6 homming rockets with a 5meter aoe

personally a few stunlock crap are for trolling that and rollers com on those gonna sometime force people to not use ther ult instead run the hell away

[Pourvoir]

Wait so you guys are proposing a "Dota" styled gameplay where spells cost "mana" and have a "cool down" ? :/

NO! DEAR GOD NO!

[Hatr]

Go and spam sound quake on ancients, good luck mate

The ultimates are good as they are right now

[Pourvoir]

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I haven't seen anyone "spamming" his 4 in any way other than defense missions (Vauban's cc field).

And that was once. A 50E ability, sure. But a 4? Spamming? I guess I'm missing something as there seem to be a lot of people talking about it.

 

Room-cleaning abilities are somewhat  strange to use imo. You heavily rely on the drop of the orbs. In a small room with like 10+ enemies and some lootboxes, yea, you use the ability and your energy is very likely to be back to max.

 

The problem I think that is being spoken about is another

 

A room full of hard enemies is meant to be a challenge. Should be about positioning, taking out the vital enemies and granting each other cover.

Right now however, you can usually go to these rooms and everyone can use their heavy AoE-Dmg or Stun and actually having cleaned that room faster than the previous ones in which the ult might have not been of too much use.

So the result is:

 

1-3 enemies: drive-by

4-6 enemies: some shooting and stabbing, getting knocked back if you're melee

7-9 enemies: quite some fighting unless someone uses his 4.

 

10-w/e enemies: ulti-by

 

This makes big enemy encounters more like a firework festival, rather than an extreme challenge.

 

I do NOT say "nerf ults they make game easy as trolol", what I say is that big enemy encounters do not do what they are maybe intended to do.

 

 

And by the way. The game is still a beta and as such it needs feedback. So there's nothing wrong with anyone saying what experience they have made so far, no matter their progress or whatever.

 

I personally think if they wanted 10 enemies to be hard... there would be hard enemies that grouped up.  DE wants us to feel like super cool strong space ninjas.  Guyver definitely lifted.  Nearly all the shooters that come out make you hide behind cover for 2 minutes while you try to kill a few enemies and it's very refreshing and a lot more fun to be able to take down a group of baddies.  I'm sure harder gameplay will come but I'd like the harder gameplay to not be forced and be something you go to a specific level for that is rewarding like stage long boss fights.  Also, we have to remember this is a farming game.  

[Hayden11121]

You are all focusing on late game.

 

"HUH HUH I CAN'T USE THIS ON A T3 IT'S FINE."

Well, that is one of the toughest levels in the game, and miasma takes them out if you use it twice in a row. *Once for grunts*

 

What OP is trying to say is the ability to use your "Ultimate" which should be considered draining and quite a breathtaker is losing it's quality of uniqueness by being spammed, and with the spamming of most of these Ults it makes their other skills useless.

I personally would like a charge animation.

Something like this, around this duration.

*Ignore the commentator, just watch*