Genders

[Venarge]

Nyx has the female version of Excaliburs body. I dont see the problem in evening out some boobs, stretching shoulders and chest, and making the muscules a little bigger. Thats not tons of work, not comparable to making a new model.

They dont want a simple boobless versions or booby versions of every frame, is that so hard to understand? They want the frames to be unique. And that is coming with different styles and looks. Not through adding simply boobs / deleting them.

[Cursor]

So where do all these new frames drop from? Who is making the loot tables for them? A new awesome design has to be made for the new one. Doesnt matter if themed or just male. It should look and play right. And that is definitly more work than you want us to tell....

Well, in order...

 

Nowhere, no one since they won't exist, and no there doesn't.  I'm not arguing for new frames.  I'm saying you should be able to just make a male frame female or vice versa, with almost all visual elements intact.

[Ruzu]

They mentioned in the stream that creating a male/female version of a frame would force them to create two separate set of animations. They gave an example by comparing hulk and she-hulk saying that although both are two genders of the same core creature, they have entirely different moves. This would mean additional work that could be going towards new content and fixes. 

 

On a personal level, I don't see why frame gender should bother people so much. I play a female sorceress that has no male counterpart in a game called Dragon Nest and I personally don't see any issue with it. Likewise, there is only a male warrior with no female counterpart. I understand the desire for customization, but it doesn't really make any different game play wise, in a general sense, if you get my drift.

[Lumireaver]

I also feel like I'm playing "my Ember" and not "the Ember." 

You are playing "your Ember," just like I'm playing "my Akiha Tohno" in Melty Blood. (Color 15 <3)

[Cursor]

They mentioned in the stream that creating a male/female version of a frame would force them to create two separate set of animations. They gave an example by comparing hulk and she-hulk saying that although both are two genders of the same core creature, they have entirely different moves. This would mean additional work that could be going towards new content and fixes. 

 

On a personal level, I don't see why frame gender should bother people so much. I play a female sorceress that has no male counterpart in a game called Dragon Nest and I personally don't see any issue with it. Likewise, there is only a male warrior with no female counterpart. I understand the desire for customization, but it doesn't really make any different game play wise, in a general sense, if you get my drift.

This is the difficulty in advocating for gender as an option for player characters.  It has no tangible benefit for the company behind the game beyond mildly increased player satisfaction.  No one enjoying the game is going to leave for the lack of it, and it isn't going to attract any new players by it's own merits.  It's simply, purely, a nice thing to have.

 

You are playing "your Ember," just like I'm playing "my Akiha Tohno" in Melty Blood. (Color 15 <3)

Except no, this is basically never implied within the game itself.

 

Lotus refers to us by our username, not by the name of the Warframe we're currently using.  She isn't speaking to "Loki" or "Ember."

 

Warframes have blueprints that are constructed using readily available materials.  They are manufactured, and so can also replicated, and presumably mass produced.

 

Hostages, which we can assume are Tenno (as the Tenno have no apparent allies besides Lotus), as well as the Tenno found within cryopods, have no Warframes with them when they are acquired.  Therefore, if they are ever to be deployed on missions (which is something basically all Tenno do by necessity), they must be equipped with a Warframe that is not unique to them, or at the very least lose "their" Warframe and be given a new one.

 

Warframes never, not even within the cinematic trailers, display any sort of personality, either by body language, actions, or speaking (since they don't speak) that differs in any significant way from other Warframes.  We have no reason to conclude these are individuals.

 

Within a match, there is nothing stopping me from running around with three Excaliburs.  As much as it's fine to say "it's just MY Excalibur," and say it's just my personal iteration of the character, the gameplay is telling me that four Excalibur Warframes can exist at once and perform missions together, which literally conveys the concept that there are multiples of any given Warframe.

 

I must reiterate, this has nothing to do with what DE meant to do.  This is the reality that the game confronts us with as players.

[CapricaSix]

This is the difficulty in advocating for gender as an option for player characters.  It has no tangible benefit for the company behind the game beyond mildly increased player satisfaction.  No one enjoying the game is going to leave for the lack of it, and it isn't going to attract any new players by it's own merits.  It's simply, purely, a nice thing to have.

Personally it is usually the first thing I look for when I'm checking a new game that seems fun enough to try, does it have decent customisation, do I get enough options, is it too linear and limited etc. As for DE benefitting from it, they could just monetise it like everything else, that's not unreasonable when it's in high demand as I see it. True that nobody will leave the game for the lack of it, but some will eventually leave for the lack of immersion, people who care enough that is.

Warframes never, not even within the cinematic trailers, display any sort of personality, either by body language, actions, or speaking (since they don't speak) that differs in any significant way from other Warframes.  We have no reason to conclude these are individuals.

You might want to look into "Dark Sector", somewhat a prequel to Warframe. It explains a lot about it. As steve has said it himself in a thread: "We're playing ourselves in the game, they're definitely nothing like MOBA heroes, it's us."

 

 

 

 

As for those still claiming to not understand why would anyone care about genders or any kind of customisation when in fact it's been already discussed to death: preference, personal choice, having options to choose from rather than the very few -if any- they give you and last but not least - immersion.

Edited June 20, 2013 by CapricaSix

[Cursor]

Personally it is usually the first thing I look for when I'm checking a new game that seems fun enough to try, does it have decent customisation, do I get enough options, is it too linear and limited etc. As for DE benefitting from it, they could just monetise it like everything else, that's not unreasonable when it's in high demand as I see it. True that nobody will leave the game for the lack of it, but some will eventually leave for the lack of immersion, people who care enough that is.

 

You might want to look into "Dark Sector", somewhat a prequel to Warframe. It explains a lot about it. As steve has said it himself in a thread: "We're playing ourselves in the game, they're definitely nothing like MOBA heroes, it's us."

 

As for those still claiming to not understand why would anyone care about genders or any kind of customisation when in fact it's been already discussed to death: preference, personal choice, having options to choose from rather than the very few -if any- they give you.

I'm sure some people might have that be a make or break element (frankly, I'm damn near one of them), but most players are at least able to overlook shortcomings in player character customization.  I'm sure DE could find a way to make money off of gender swaps, but that'd be a bit of a gross situation of "norm, deviation from norm."

 

Oh, I know about it.  It basically is Warframe, or rather, Warframe is the original Dark Sector concept turned into an instanced MMO.  Even in that first trailer, though, they didn't imply that Hayden is the only one wearing that armor.  And if you're referring to the actual Dark Sector that got released, I'm still suspicious that Warframe is intended to be a far-flung sequel (but they devs don't want to admit it), but it's more likely that it is actually a spin off the original concept for the game previewed in 2004.  It's interesting to hear that he said that, because on the subject of frame genders, that seems to be contrary to how they're approaching things.

[CapricaSix]

I'm sure some people might have that be a make or break element (frankly, I'm damn near one of them), but most players are at least able to overlook shortcomings in player character customization.  I'm sure DE could find a way to make money off of gender swaps, but that'd be a bit of a gross situation of "norm, deviation from norm."

 

Oh, I know about it.  It basically is Warframe, or rather, Warframe is the original Dark Sector concept turned into an instanced MMO.  Even in that first trailer, though, they didn't imply that Hayden is the only one wearing that armor.  And if you're referring to the actual Dark Sector that got released, I'm still suspicious that Warframe is intended to be a far-flung sequel (but they devs don't want to admit it), but it's more likely that it is actually a spin off the original concept for the game previewed in 2004.  It's interesting to hear that he said that, because on the subject of frame genders, that seems to be contrary to how they're approaching things.

Calling it a spinoff seems more appropriate since Warframe takes place in far far far distant future while Dark Sector is more near future. As for devs not wanting to admit it, they've posted a video of "early stages of Dark Sector and what Warframe is based on", I'm paraphrasing of course but it's that one certain video where you see Hayden Tenno in an excalibur-like armour invading a Grineer ship and being all hardcore. They don't seem to be hiding a lot there.

 

"How they're approaching things", they so vaguely chose the Ember/Blaze thing over direct genderswap, that doesn't necessarily mean we're playing clones and will not have any further customisation beyond that. It's essentially a genderswap in itself, much like turning a male wizard class into male warlock and female sorceress {with certain minor differences, as they've implied in the past}.

[Noogums]

The way Gender-swapping is currently set up to work in this game, is already IN the game. Excalibur and Nyx. A different variant of the same suit, with polarized abilities. Excalibur is the man's man, the working class male, the sword. Nyx is the driving force, the manipulator. As said "The man is the head of the house, but the female is the neck. She turns the head any way she wants."

In this sense, this is the single most subtle and genius version of gender-swapping. If all other gender-swaps work like the one we already have, I fully endorse it.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Noogums

[CapricaSix]

The way Gender-swapping is currently set up to work in this game, is already IN the game. Excalibur and Nyx. A different variant of the same suit, with polarized abilities. Excalibur is the man's man, the working class male, the sword. Nyx is the driving force, the manipulator. As said "The man is the head of the house, but the female is the neck. She turns the head any way she wants."

In this sense, this is the single most subtle and genius version of gender-swapping. If all other gender-swaps work like the one we already have, I fully endorse it.

That's not genderswap, it's only 2 completely different warframes that resemble each other very vaguely {at least the new Nyx, not the Nyx placeholder that was literally a female excalibur}

 

Ember/Blaze style genderswap is, as I've said, 2 slightly different warframes with similar powers, both fire-based, both same "role", both visually similar while differing in gender. Genderswap is literally about swapping one's gender, when you change so much it's pretty much an "overhaul".

 

Edit: Hm, now I understand why Scott doesn't want to call it genderswap. Although I still don't agree with him lol

Edited June 20, 2013 by CapricaSix

[Noogums]

I personally prefer the idea of two Warframes who have that polarized synergy, than two Warframes with similar powers but different awkward bits..

I think DE are on that side of it, too. They said "Why add a genderswap when we can make an entirely new frame that compliments the other" (Paraphrased). 

But everyone is entitled to their opinions/wants, and I won't bash yours. If they implement it your way, I'll give you a nice slap on the behind handshake.

[CapricaSix]

I personally prefer the idea of two Warframes who have that polarized synergy, than two Warframes with similar powers but different awkward bits..

I think DE are on that side of it, too. They said "Why add a genderswap when we can make an entirely new frame that compliments the other" (Paraphrased). 

But everyone is entitled to their opinions/wants, and I won't bash yours. If they implement it your way, I'll give you a nice slap on the behind handshake.

I can respect that -aside from the slap- but Geoff, Steve and Scott have already expressed their positive stance towards the Ember/Blaze style over direct genderswap. I don't think they even consider Excalibur/Nyx to be any kind of a genderswap, this needs some citation :P

Edited June 20, 2013 by CapricaSix

[BBYipho]

The way Gender-swapping is going to work in this game, is already IN the game. Excalibur and Nyx. A different variant of the same suit, with polarized abilities. Excalibur is the man's man, the working class male, the sword. Nyx is the driving force, the manipulator. As said "The man is the head of the house, but the female is the neck. She turns the head any way she wants."

In this sense, this is the single most subtle and genius version of gender-swapping. If all other gender-swaps work like the one we already have, I fully endorse it.

 

And yet solves no issues. I'm sorry but people love customization. If they find themselves fitting a Frame they want the frame personalize to their taste. There is no voice, There is no body language, There is no character decision making. Just what we're choosing.

 

As soon as DE forces character into these Frames people would stop caring about them. Which for your game's business. Not good.

I still believe they'll eventually address this issue. Just not soon.

 

People love new Frames with abilities, they just don't want to forcefully change to another frame because it's the same theme. People don't want new abilities for an alternate gender. They just want the Frame to look like their idea person, themselves or an imaginary whatever they normally play in other games with customization options.

 

 

Allow me to point a few examples.

Monster Hunter and Demon/Dark Souls. These games allow us to pick our genders. Of course they mainly get covered by armor but knowing what we picked underneath is what highly count to players who play for the really long run. Would I be so heavily into Monster Hunter if I choosed a character design I didn't like? Truthfully no. The minor tweaks made me more interested in the game to waste atleast 500 hours of my time.

 

Another Example would be the Phantasy Star games. The customization probably went a bit overboard in the newest ones but people really enjoy being a vision of their "ideal" character even if they fall under roles. That gun guy, the lady with swords, stupidly insane magic guy who's tall as crap because he feels it fits. People are just into their characters.

 

I personally prefer the idea of two Warframes who have that polarized synergy, than two Warframes with similar powers but different awkward bits..

I think DE are on that side of it, too. They said "Why add a genderswap when we can make an entirely new frame that compliments the other" (Paraphrased). 

But everyone is entitled to their opinions/wants, and I won't bash yours. If they implement it your way, I'll give you a nice slap on the behind handshake.

 

Seriously. People have mention time and time again they are willing to just pay for it. Full on cosmetics. Yet we are told to believe we need to make it a completely new frame with new shiny abilities! Seriously... The last few frames don't interest me. I don't like Banshee or Vauban. What I want to be is Mag all the time. Do I want a male version of Mag with different powers? Truthfully if he had more useful powers I would want that "Male Mag" to be female so I feel right at home.

 

Introducing new frames and abilities will just widen the want to gender swap the newer frames.

 

"But BBYiffo if you don't want a male Mag why are you posting in these topics?"

~Inner imaginary Person

 

I'll tell you why. My 2nd most wanted thing is still a real Female Excalibur. Then probably Ash... But you see the picture here? I'm making a stupidly long post just because I want my 2nd favorite frame to resemble my taste.

Edited June 20, 2013 by BBYiffo

[CapricaSix]

I still believe they'll eventually address this issue. Just not soon.

That much is certain at least.

 

You've explained why it's important for others and how will DE benefit from it quite well. I've just dropped £50 only on costumes in Rift the other day :P probably spent even more in APB:Reloaded thanks to their outrageous pricing, purely cosmetic stuff.

[BBYipho]

Now it's only a matter of "Man-power" they have. They're working to polish the game up right now which is top priority.

 

Eventaully when the work load is less on the designers they may put effort into it. Though with a second season of helmets coming and talk about equipable body nic naks.

 

Also forgot to put. If they do make alternate genders. I hope they keep the helmets the way they are. Just change the neck connecting the body and helm. It doesn't need to have a completely new helmet.

 

(Actually now that I think of it. That may be covered. If you ever had the headless glitch you'll know what I'm talking about.)

Edited June 20, 2013 by BBYiffo

[SpringwoodSlasher]

it's funny how people assume that a warframe without clearly noticable %&#036;# is male...

[Sinova]

the way I like to think of it is that the warframes are obviously suits. cuz well they are. but they are certain models that are attuned better to certain sexes (like boys or girls brand of clothing). the trinity frame was made intentionally for women and Excalibur was meant for men, u can call it sexist but that how it often is in real life. so it would make more sense to make a new frame of the opposite gender. not only will this give us new frames and moves but help give everyone wat they want. now I wouldn't want a carbon copy obviously cuz it be kinda lame imo. id rather just take a new persona with new moves.

[Lumireaver]

Lotus refers to us by our username, not by the name of the Warframe we're currently using.  She isn't speaking to "Loki" or "Ember."

 

If that isn't just beta text, maybe. They have said they need to go in and redo lots of lines so, yeah.

 

Warframes have blueprints that are constructed using readily available materials.  They are manufactured, and so can also replicated, and presumably mass produced.

 

Assuming that isn't a user-facing gameplay mechanic, like shooting Kerotan dolls in MGS to unlock stealth camouflage. (Unless you think those were actually physically spread out through the game enviroment.)

 

 

Hostages, which we can assume are Tenno (as the Tenno have no apparent allies besides Lotus), as well as the Tenno found within cryopods, have no Warframes with them when they are acquired.  Therefore, if they are ever to be deployed on missions (which is something basically all Tenno do by necessity), they must be equipped with a Warframe that is not unique to them, or at the very least lose "their" Warframe and be given a new one.

 

Yeah. I always assumed Vauban was like one of these guys we rescued, or one of the cryopods we successfully defended. Same with anti-matter 'Frame.

 

 

Warframes never, not even within the cinematic trailers, display any sort of personality, either by body language, actions, or speaking (since they don't speak) that differs in any significant way from other Warframes.  We have no reason to conclude these are individuals.

 

(Except Ash, he's clearly a bloody sociopath.) Also neither does Batman. Or the ninja from that movie with the Korean pop star. They're just professionals. Anyhow, you're just not reading any body language, it doesn't really mean there isn't any.

 

 

Within a match, there is nothing stopping me from running around with three Excaliburs.  As much as it's fine to say "it's just MY Excalibur," and say it's just my personal iteration of the character, the gameplay is telling me that four Excalibur Warframes can exist at once and perform missions together, which literally conveys the concept that there are multiples of any given Warframe.

 

Video has lot's of language, if you're near kids... and also the guy is kind of a little obnoxious.

 

The point is: There is only one King, but you can dress him up how you like and if two differently dressed King's fought each other the universe wouldn't suffer a space wedgie. It's a perfectly acceptable videogame type deal. Though, if you really want and you're really into self-inserting, you're totally free to roleplay your very own clone of King in order to justify the existence of two different Kings on screen.

 

 

 

This is the reality that the game confronts us with as players.

 

The reality you perceive. 

[TheDoctah]

I seriously just don't understand why gender is such a huge deal. Reading the topic some more, I still think (imo) it's pretty silly that this is a big deal to some people. 

Edited June 20, 2013 by TheDoctah

[Cursor]

"How they're approaching things", they so vaguely chose the Ember/Blaze thing over direct genderswap, that doesn't necessarily mean we're playing clones and will not have any further customisation beyond that. It's essentially a genderswap in itself, much like turning a male wizard class into male warlock and female sorceress {with certain minor differences, as they've implied in the past}.

See, the problem with having "minor differences" is that it ultimately serves no purpose.  You end up with a whole extra crop of frames that people want to use a different gender with.  If the playstyle is any different, than it's not solving the problem of wanting to control how the frame you enjoy playing looks, because it simply adds a different frame that you don't necessarily like.

 

If that isn't just beta text, maybe. They have said they need to go in and redo lots of lines so, yeah.

 

Assuming that isn't a user-facing gameplay mechanic, like shooting Kerotan dolls in MGS to unlock stealth camouflage. (Unless you think those were actually physically spread out through the game enviroment.)

 

Yeah. I always assumed Vauban was like one of these guys we rescued, or one of the cryopods we successfully defended. Same with anti-matter 'Frame.

 

(Except Ash, he's clearly a bloody sociopath.) Also neither does Batman. Or the ninja from that movie with the Korean pop star. They're just professionals. Anyhow, you're just not reading any body language, it doesn't really mean there isn't any.

 

Video has lot's of language, if you're near kids... and also the guy is kind of a little obnoxious.

 

The point is: There is only one King, but you can dress him up how you like and if two differently dressed King's fought each other the universe wouldn't suffer a space wedgie. It's a perfectly acceptable videogame type deal. Though, if you really want and you're really into self-inserting, you're totally free to roleplay your very own clone of King in order to justify the existence of two different Kings on screen.

 

The reality you perceive. 

I don't mean to be rude, but these are all copout arguments.

 

You keep talking about what you can assume.  I really don't care how this is still beta and how dialog might be redone, or how blueprint finding might be a gamey solution that necessitates player grinding and time investment to acquire frames, or when and why Vauban or the Anti-Matter frame were added to the roster.  These things have absolutely no bearing on the points I've made.  I'm saying these are things the game explicitly tells us. As players simply going by information conveyed by the game, we have no reason to assume these points are shortcomings, solutions, or are vaguely-but-not-really explained via gameplay when we have no connecting information.

 

Ash is not psychotic.  No moreso than any of the other frames.  This is absolutely a subjective assessment.  He displays the same level of dexterity and combat prowess as any other frame.  He has the same lack of compunction violence as they all do.  I'd like to know why you consider him any more of a "bloody sociopath" than the rest of them.  Also, Batman does display personality by his actions.  He also speaks, which greatly aids in conveying that personality.  He is not a faceless, voiceless man in a suit running around with eight other similar people behaving in exactly the same manner, with no distinguishing features between them regarding behavior.

 

I simply don't think the comparison to (2D) fighting games is a valid one.  It's an archaic genre mired in dated approaches to gameplay and game design, but even for all it's shortcomings that doesn't address your point.  What does address it, however, is that there is no illusion that you're playing within a coherent universe.  From start to finish (at least for most fighting games), the encounters between characters are utterly arbitrary with no explanation, typically having inexplicable timers or limits on how many times you can die.  While Warframe has similar gamey conventions, like your daily revives, there is a significant effort to create a believable world with tangible rules, and events are framed in a way that is consistent with that world.  There are slip-ups, like killing the same boss over and over and, again, the revives, but the effort is very apparent in almost every aspect of the game.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Cursor

[Lumireaver]

I don't mean to be rude, but these are all copout arguments.

Likewise. 

 

You keep talking about what you can assume.  I really don't care how this is still beta and how dialog might be redone, or how blueprint finding might be a gamey solution that necessitates player grinding and time investment to acquire frames, or when and why Vauban or the Anti-Matter frame were added to the roster.  These things have absolutely no bearing on the points I've made.  I'm saying these are things the game explicitly tells us. As players simply going by information conveyed by the game, we have no reason to assume these points are shortcomings, solutions, or are vaguely-but-not-really explained via gameplay when we have no connecting information.

 

Ash is not psychotic.  No moreso than any of the other frames.  This is absolutely a subjective assessment.  He displays the same level of dexterity and combat prowess as any other frame.  He has the same lack of compunction violence as they all do.  I'd like to know why you consider him any more of a "bloody sociopath" than the rest of them.  Also, Batman does display personality by his actions.  He also speaks, which greatly aids in conveying that personality.  He is not a faceless, voiceless man in a suit running around with eight other similar people behaving in exactly the same manner, with no distinguishing features between them regarding behavior.

 

I simply don't think the comparison to fighting games is a valid one.  It's an archaic genre mired in dated approaches to gameplay and game design, but even for all it's shortcomings that doesn't address your point.  What does address it, however, is that there is no illusion that you're playing within a coherent universe.  From start to finish (at least for most fighting games), the encounters between characters are utterly arbitrary with no explanation, typically having inexplicable timers or limits on how many times you can die.  While Warframe has similar gamey conventions, like your daily revives, there is a significant effort to create a believable world with tangible rules, and events are framed in a way that is consistent with that world.  There are slip-ups, like killing the same boss over and over and, again, the revives, but the effort is very apparent in almost every aspect of the game.

 

You're interpreting a lot more than is actually being said, and it's especially jarring when you pick and chose elements which justify your fanon and ignore all other inconsistencies. The things you're "explicitly" hearing aren't so explicit. Try to justify why it takes approximately as much ten times as much Ferrite to make a Glaive than it does a Fang. ...Or why these Grineer who posses the blueprints which would be necessary to mass produce Warframes don't have a clone army of Warframes. (It's because they don't actually possess the blueprints—the fact that they drop them alludes to the a more lore-friendly explanation that they are merely researching either those specific 'Frames, or similar technologies.)

 

I don't know, his body language made it look like he was indulging in sadistic glee when he was frantically hopping around from Grineer to hapless Grineer. Especially considering most of those poor guys weren't even presently engaged in combat. As far as Batman goes, tell that to the countless thugs he takes out without saying a word who think of hims as some kind of masked demon.

 

...And I don't think self-insert fiction is valid. Opinions.

[CapricaSix]

See, the problem with having "minor differences" is that it ultimately serves no purpose.  You end up with a whole extra crop of frames that people want to use a different gender with.  If the playstyle is any different, than it's not solving the problem of wanting to control how the frame you enjoy playing looks, because it simply adds a different frame that you don't necessarily like.

The way I see it, having minor differences in these "genderswapped" models is nothing more than a minor inconvenience as you're going to have to get them as "seemingly" completely new warframes as you said, level them up again, supercharge and polarise them again, instead of simply choosing a different "suit". I personally don't mind it that much, it's better than nothing and it would please me. If you don't care for any of it or want direct genderswap instead, well that's just your thing then.

 

But then there's no reason to assume how big the difference in skills is going to be, will Blaze not be able to shoot something close to fireballs like Ember or cast a different version of World on Fire? We can't possibly know that. I'm just assuming that we simply won't be able to grab our maxed out skill cards and place them on our new genderswapped warframes, beyond that I'm not expecting a lot of change. That's being pretty optimistic though but it's still better than nothing and as they always remind us "nothing is set in stone", they will be subject to change at any point especially if people aren't happy with them. So I really don't see the problem here.

 

The main point is to have more customisation options. Getting it under the illusion of having completely new set of warframes is just fine by me if they want to go that way, which they evidently do. We just need to wait and see how it plays out.

[Cursor]

Likewise. 

 

 

You're interpreting a lot more than is actually being said, and it's especially jarring when you pick and chose elements which justify your fanon and ignore all other inconsistencies. The things you're "explicitly" hearing aren't so explicit. Try to justify why it takes approximately as much ten times as much Ferrite to make a Glaive than it does a Fang. ...Or why these Grineer who posses the blueprints which would be necessary to mass produce Warframes don't have a clone army of Warframes. (It's because they don't actually possess the blueprints—the fact that they drop them alludes to the a more lore-friendly explanation that they are merely researching either those specific 'Frames, or similar technologies.)

 

I don't know, his body language made it look like he was indulging in sadistic glee when he was frantically hopping around from Grineer to hapless Grineer. Especially considering most of those poor guys weren't even presently engaged in combat. As far as Batman goes, tell that to the countless thugs he takes out without saying a word who think of hims as some kind of masked demon.

 

...And I don't think self-insert fiction is valid. Opinions.

I'm not picking and choosing.  I'm identifying the elements that, yes, to me tell us about the game.  If you can cite examples that contradict them, by all means share.  The only one I could find is that when doing the War mission, Lotus begins by saying that Nef Anyo has been collecting cryopods and that we need to rescue the Warframes inside.  This actually does suggest that each Tenno has a unique Warframe, and therefore each Warframe is an individual.  However, my personal read on that introduction when I first heard it was that "Warframe" was like a title or rank for the Tenno, that warriors wearing them are simply called Warframes.  I'll admit that's less likely, based on how Lotus' introduction is worded, but the there is ambiguity there.

 

These things are explicit in that, on face value, it's the information being conveyed to the player.  Oh, there are two Excaliburs here?  I guess there's more than one Excalibur.  Lotus is talking to me, regardless of what Warframe I'm using?  I guess I'm wearing different suits but am still the same person.  If you can think of other ways to interpret this information being conveyed, please share it.

 

Frankly I don't know why certain weapons require different amounts of resources, but I don't believe I was arguing any specific point in that regard, or whether that has any relation to the points I've made at all.  And I don't know why the Grineer who have the blueprints and a vast army of clone soldiers don't mass produce Warframes, but I also didn't posit on that fact because it'd be pure speculation (although on a personal note, I believe it's because only the Tenno have knowledge of either how to read/interpret the blueprints or only the Tenno have the means by which to construct them).  It could just be a gamey element, sure, but I'm not trying to argue based on assumptions.  As far as the game is telling me, Captain Vor has blueprints for the Cronus sword on him.

 

I'm not sure where you're reading "glee."  Seriously, he's hopping around because his frame gives him powers of mobility.  He's just using his advantage.  Frost is heavier, slower, and so moves slower, but he cuts people in half with as much ease/gusto.

 

And while not every random mook listens to Batman speak, lots of people do.  People who he interrogates/intimidates, Commissioner Gordon, his entire rogues gallery.  All these people, many of whom have actively engaged Batman in combat, are aware of how he behaves, how he prioritizes things, and occasionally can anticipate how he's going to act.  They could certainly differentiate between his behavior and that of another anonymous masked figure.

 

Please, tell me how I'm making "self-insert fiction" here.  I'm asking this genuinely, because I'm not sure what you mean.  I haven't just assumed Ash is crazy based on precisely nothing, and frankly I'm not even asserting that frames are just suits people wear.  I'm claiming that the game itself is suggesting this to be the case.  So please, enlighten me.

[LorKeeper]

 That is perfect! Simple alterations to the current models.No big deal, just enough to make them look appropriate.

This pic is really cool, But knowing that there will always be new warframes it will take a long time and a lot of work just to get one frame done if they where to have male and female.

[Otaiken]

In the end it all boils down to: What exactly does DE get from implementing this? It would require new models, textures and maybe even some animations AKA a ton of work (=money). Just so some people can roleplay slightly better? It would make sense if they made the gender swap available for platinum only, but then you'd get people on the forums raging how that is unfair (I bet).

 

I'm not saying it can't or shouldn't be done, just that it is probably under the very bottom of the priority list. And it's a looooong list.

Edited June 20, 2013 by LocoWithGun