Lets discuss the nullifiers

[Madway7]

2 minutes ago, Hesyol said:

Idk why everyone have so much problems with them. Of course when you have ultimates that can obliterate whole map there must be enemies to counter that. And nullifiers are not that hard to deal with really

Since the devs seem to be moving in the direction of changing ultimates then the enemy units should receive some changes aswell.

[(XBOX)R35T 1N PEACE]

1 hour ago, Madway7 said:

Though with certain frames like Inaros and Chroma (at higher levels) it would be suicide to melee them.

Also sometimes Bombards and Heavy Gunners end up in their bubbles.

But the main annoyance I have with them is their bubbles clipping through solid objects.

All of the above^. Nullifiers basically get (albeit a weaker version) a snow globe, but theirs is portable and de-buffs warframes that end up in the bubble. It's a bit daft. 

Edited June 5, 2016 by (XB1)R35T 1N PEACE

[Genoscythe]

I think if every warframe had a way to kill nullifiers with their abilities (most first skills damage the shield, but not sufficiently at the moment), including reducing their shield to zero, things would be fairer. But yeah, they are a really lazy and cheesy unit.

 

Apart from that ancient healers and disruptor are also cheesy as hell, why does nobody complain about those? They don't have a fancy bubble but make your abilities useless as well, even your weapons sometimes.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Genoscythe

[MonkeyWaffles]

I've mentioned this before in another thread:

Enable non-hitscan weapons to penetrate the bubble with a reduction in damage. The slower the projectile, the more of its base damage it keeps. This follows the logic that if a Warframe can walk through the bubble physically unharmed, then a slow enough moving projectile should be able to as well.

Doing this would also increase the viability of bows far more in Corpus and Void encounters, which they suffer at this point.

[Arkvold]

Honestly, I hate enemies who can just wholesale turn off warframe abilities.  Those abilities and the general mobility of Warframes in combat are what separate Warframe from every other generic over-the-shoulder third-person-shooter out there.

I will, however, argue that Nullifiers are a better-designed enemy than Comba or Scrambus.  At least with nullifiers, you can visually distinguish where their bubble is, and at what point your powers are just going to shut off completely.  I don't mind enemies with irritating abilities, so long as I'm given a clear and concise indicator of what those abilities are, who is using them, and an opportunity to counter them.

Right now, the biggest counter to Nullifiers is slipping in under their shield and meleeing them - they're squishy and die really fast without their bubble soaking up tons of hits.  Of course, that can be hard when other enemies are camped under the bubble and you need your warframe powers to survive those enemies.  Honestly that's the biggest problem with them - there's no clear-cut way to deal with them (leave them for last, jump in and melee them, pop the bubble then kill), and depending on the 'frame you're running, touching the shield could range from "inconsequential" (Ex: Hydroid, Saryn, Nova, Volt) to "catastrophic" (Ex: Rhino, Nezha, Nekros, Chroma).

Nullifiers could stand to be redesigned to be more interactive and dynamic, instead of just being a crewman with a zone of No Fun and a sniper rifle capable of one-shotting more fragile 'frames outright once you start dealing with L50+ nullifiers.  Maybe allow punch-through weapons to reach through the shield, or perhaps take some of the ideas earlier in the thread, like the idea of the bubble being a deployable item like Grineer blunts.  If they're meant to stop Warframe abilities, then they shouldn't also be able to summarily ignore guns until their bubble pops, too.

[ranks21]

if nothing else doesn't show how backwards thinking and poorly designed concept put in the game to blatantly stop players from simply playing and enjoying the game like nullifiers are  then we wouldn't be having this conversation about them.

now even more backwards is the bright and stupendously brilliant idea to make a mod to put on the worst weapon in the game for the sole purpose to pop a bubble<< color me stupid in rainbow colors all bright for everyone to see... are you kidding me!! how much more broken ideas are there to just slap into the game as a f-u.

hey lets make their jobs pleasantly easy for them (sarcasm)

 you don't want players to play as they want so heres a list of options

1:add more grind to everything because its too easy and players have everything to play with from the get go.

2: you don't want the players to spam abilities>> simple fix is to remove all abilities solves your migraines.

3: the nodes are not being played well remove (nerf) all but keep one.

4: anything that has more than 25 dps is deemed over powered so make them less than that ( great achievement for the balance and nerf possies)

5: make the game as unfun as you possibly can ( forget 5 we are already there)

6: put in written form what where and how you want the player base to use reach and play your game>. better yet or in simpler form publish a  codex of rules.

anything that's effective against the enemies just remove them all together>> no need to rework and make anything after because the job will be done and it will be what your ultimate vision was all along.

Edited June 5, 2016 by ranks21

[Technologic141]

Absolutely remove nullifiers (instant ability reset/shutdown) and boost Scrambus (that guy on flying rolerblades).
Scrambus is pretty good balanced because he dont reset powers but block their using (example: if you have active warcry and this guy come, you CANT recast but timer is not reseted so your abillitly is still active until rech zero so only prevent from abillity spam)

I think that concept is great and fair.
Nullifier is broken because reset everything and also is against bows, snipers and other slow shoot weapons.

[polarity]

I see all these complaints about nullifiers, and you know what I think?

People must be really crap at parkour and melee.

[Hesyol]

26 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

Since the devs seem to be moving in the direction of changing ultimates then the enemy units should receive some changes aswell.

I don't think they will nerf everything that bad. Meta will just switch to something else

[ranks21]

its not all about parkour or melee dude you totally missed the point. players likes to play their way just as how you like to play your way. some just want to snipe or use their bow etc.

now  just as much as you want others to respect your playstyle so should you theirs. not everyone wants to jump around Cypress hill or Criss Cross to pop a bubble some players actually wants to use whats in their hand atm and kill stuff..

Edited June 5, 2016 by ranks21

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

[FrostedMike]

1 hour ago, Madway7 said:

Though with certain frames like Inaros and Chroma (at higher levels) it would be suicide to melee them.

Also sometimes Bombards and Heavy Gunners end up in their bubbles.

But the main annoyance I have with them is their bubbles clipping through solid objects.

I can just melee them with someone like Volt. Run, slide attack and go.

Now lets say that you have two bombards inside that bubble, you need to kill that nullifier first while ignoring the bombard. Run is, slide attack with focus on the nullifier and run. Now you can deal with the bombards.
1. Run towards the nullifier. Roll and dodge when you need or can.
2. get inside the bubble and slide attack the nullifier.
3. Get out of the bubble after the first hit. Get a meter or two away.
4. Repeat if the nullifier isn't dead already. Run, slide, get out.
5. Don't forget to pay attention other enemies around, they might be more dangerous than the nullifier.
From the moment that the nullifier is dead, you can say that the rest of the enemies that were inside the bubble are dead because now you can use your powers.

Nullifiers don't have as much health as bombards and heavy gunners and even squishy compared to the rest of the "end game" enemies. They are easier than you think.

The tricky part is in tight places because he and the enemies inside are blocking your escape route. You got rid of the nullifier but the rest of the enemies are blocking everything and fire at you. Even here, it's the large crowd that gets you and not the nullifier that causes it.

Bubble clipping through the walls is not something that worries me and I didn't have an issue with it so far. It only indicates that it's time to move from where I was. I usually run around in the open to avoid damage rather than blocking it.

[TheStag]

Nullifiers should be flat out removed. The only spot I can see them fitting into the game is in spy missions - in the vault. However, we already have Datalysts for that so I would say get rid of them completely.

[polarity]

People who only play one way are bad players.

It's as bad as those Idiot DPS players in WoW, who won't move out of the fire because it reduces their damage output if they have to stop casting for a few seconds.

If you have a problem, you fix it with the correct tool.  You don't complain that you can't undo nuts with a hammer when you've been given a perfectly good spanner.

Edited June 5, 2016 by polarity

[jinxeverything]

1 minute ago, polarity said:

People must be really crap at parkour and melee.

1 Vs. 1? not much of a problem but when Nullfiers having a tea party with an Ancient, Heavy Gunner, Bombards inside of their bubble? kiss your life goodbye if you are running a squishy frame or your weapon can't OHK it.

This unit is wayyy anti-fun than it should, time for it get its turn for rework, what, DE have no idea how to rework it? no problem just take a good look at this thread, people are offering free ideas, use them DE!!

Here a bad idea from me! (twisting an idea from within this thread) 

Nullfiers bubbles behave like Limbo's Catalysm, it won't cancel our abilities but it will simply bypass our abilities through it and enemies that are within take no damage from us nor do damage to us unless they leave it, when they leave it they are Banished for 5 seconds and all their damage do not hurt us nor we can hurt them since they are under Nullfiers protection and if we enter the bubble we can shoot at them from a far, we can still use our abilities inside of Nullifiers but we must enter the bubble for it to have effect on Nullifiers, if an enemy shoot at us from inside and the "fire" did not reach us within 5 seconds it will unbanish itself and will hurt us.

Should Limbo counteract them? like Rift Walk to snipe Nullifiers? 

Not perfect but it serves to piss us off :) 

[ranks21]

I see youre still defending a broken mechanics that has effectively killed more than one class of weapons and have the nerve to call players bad players.. give us the reason why this enemy should remain as is and players should not use their weapons of choice? this enemy  (nullifier) was called for a removal since day 1 and was broken and still is.

so now players should always play a certain way and equip  specific weapons just to play against this enemy ( so much for diversity) so whats the sense for having the rest of weapons in the game? or playing any other way if they are ineffective against this one enemy?

lets see the many ways of dilly dallying around this which the point is still the same the unit is still broken with a 1 dimensional way of dealing with it.

Edited June 5, 2016 by ranks21

[polarity]

3 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

running

You're still not getting it, people who are running, are

24 minutes ago, polarity said:

crap at parkour

Try and think in more than 2 dimensions.

[Fionntan]

Personally I want them thrown into the sun.

However, if they are bent into keeping them around at least:

• Reduce their spawns
• Make bubbles not block bullets or
• Promote piercing shots 

At least that way they can still negate abilities, yet this time players can counter with whichever gun they choose or have piercing mods.

As it stands the Nullies limit both abilities & gun choice, which is over the top. Melee is a hit or miss & more likely than not will be countered with knocked downs or killed inside the bubble in higher levels. So is still safer to pop the bubble instead; although within melee range they somehow still dis-spell

[(PSN)SNAKE0757]

They sholud fix their bubbles getting through walls and they dropping on you from above (void) and decrease their spawn rate and I'll be fine with them. I find the damn sapping ospreys more annoying.

[mike167890]

the healer changes a while ago made nullifies much worst then they were  now healers just hide inside the bubble with heavy units making a group basically having equivalent to pre u13 god mod trinity effect  at  higher levels  the effect is really cheesy   healers to i understand why they exist so that people can't run  a 50 sec t3 exterminates with ember ,but its not really balanced in endless situations.  

[(PSN)Malfunction-3000]

I think their spawn rate and movement speed should be reduced. They should at least be a little tanky (more shields) to make up for it though.

[jinxeverything]

2 minutes ago, polarity said:

You're still not getting it, people who are running, are

Running as in using, you are asking us to limit our frame of choice?

 :/

2 minutes ago, polarity said:

Try and think in more than 2 dimensions.

I try to think in 12 dimensions!

[polarity]

Sorry, I'm just sat here laughing at how nobody can work out how to attack 3 stacked nullifiers with bombard and heavy gunner support, with any frame available to you.

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

Remove them.

boost comba spawn rate. STOP LETTING THEM CANCEL ACTIVE POWERS.

 

thats it

[Zyrgi]

2 hours ago, GTX49 said:

As far as i know, the nullifiers were brought to reduce the "Press 4 to Win" mentality around, but now the devs are reworking such skills to kill that "Press 4 to Win" 

This leads to one question.. Should the nullifiers stay or be removed or moved to a future nightmare raid?

If they were created to eliminate press x to win, then it was a bigger failure than I thought. Current situation is that thy block sight, render bows, snipers, most shotguns inferior and take more ammo to disable than an equal level bombard or any other heavy unit. It feels like that was a poor way of trying to fix bad ability design combined with inappropriate enemy scaling.

I am tired of feeling mandated to take Quanta Vandal for the sole purpose of dealing with bubbles. In addition with all the farming and repetitive gameplay it is even more frustrating to have to tolerate enemies with a design as bad as Nullifiers. I understand, revamping abilities/enemy scaling/reward systems are a way more time consuming matter, but in the long run that is what would pay off better. In addition to "New content every week" mentality this would be pretty hard to do from the developer perspective. We already have hundreds of weapons, what we need is a refinement of the existing, new actual content like quests and other stuff to do besides farming, that would make the farming more tolerable.

I don't know about other people, but I would be willing to sacrifice the new non-content that is weapons and maybe even warframes for the refinement of the existing game so that mistakes like Nullifiers wouldn't be an option or seen as solutions to problems. I hope that with Lunaro coming and the new star chart and damage 3.0, the developers realize and have time to work on the bad band-AIDS like Nullifiers and improve the existing game.