Banshee: Silence VS Passive??? Is Silence dead?

[GreyEnneract]

Just now, climatiseur said:

Silence is an aura stun that follow you for ~>40 seconds which can re-stun enemies.

the differences between it with other CC is that it needs to use with being mobile.

If you don't like it then i'll just say it's a preference difference. However, it remains very effective for many players who has different styles or preferences.

So you stun a group of enemies for 2s, can't kill them before they're un-stunned, so you run away 20 meters then come back?

Hard to believe that's effective whatsoever considering almost every other power in the game.

And like I said before, if by "different styles" you mean the savage silence builds, then the ability is poorly designed when you have to build negative range just for SS and gimping the rest of your kit.

If you still want to believe Silence is good for CC then in the next response I'll list out every ability that CC's more effectively.

[SolidJames]

12 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

So you stun a group of enemies for 2s, can't kill them before they're un-stunned, so you run away 20 meters then come back?

Hard to believe that's effective whatsoever considering almost every other power in the game.

And like I said before, if by "different styles" you mean the savage silence builds, then the ability is poorly designed when you have to build negative range just for SS and gimping the rest of your kit.

If you still want to believe Silence is good for CC then in the next response I'll list out every ability that CC's more effectively.

 

It's 3 seconds, and I can kill a lot of enemies in 3 seconds. Especially with Sonar and AOE weapons, like I usually run with her.

 

Also just because something else is better at one thing it doesn't mean something is inherently bad.

Edited June 7, 2016 by THEWULFMAN

[GreyEnneract]

7 minutes ago, THEWULFMAN said:

 

It's 3 seconds, and I can kill a lot of enemies in 3 seconds. Especially with Sonar and AOE weapons, like I usually run with her.

 

Also just because something else is better at one thing it doesn't mean something is inherently bad.

To even say it's good or bad, you must be comparing it to something else. You wouldn't say the Machete has good damage just because you can kill with it.

Like I said, for the enemies you didn't kill while they were CC'd, do you just run away to restun them? Seems flawed to me. Especially when half of the time you can't even kill the enemies you stunned since it applies through walls. By the time you get to them the stun duration has already ended.

Here's the list though.

Smokescreen, Bladestorm, Petrify, Titanic Rumbler, Sonic Boom, Soundquake, Spectral Scream, Effigy, all of Ember's abilities, Rest, Peaceful Pacify, Maim, Radial Blind, all of Frost's abilities, all of Hydroid's abilities, Dessication, Sandstorm, Scarab Swarm, Sleep Arrow, Radial Disarm, Pull, Magnetize, Crush, Shooting Gallery, Staggering Shield, Sleight of Hand, Prism, Terrify, Soul Punch, Divine Spears, M Prime, Chaos, Absorb, Smite, Reckoning, Charge, Stomp, Miasma, Bastille, Vortex, Shock, Electric Shield, Discharge, Cloud Walker, Tornado.

Most of these even use up less energy per cast to the same or greater effect.

Being usable does not equal being good. 

[climatiseur]

1 hour ago, GreyEnneract said:

To even say it's good or bad, you must be comparing it to something else. You wouldn't say the Machete has good damage just because you can kill with it.

Like I said, for the enemies you didn't kill while they were CC'd, do you just run away to restun them? Seems flawed to me. Especially when half of the time you can't even kill the enemies you stunned since it applies through walls. By the time you get to them the stun duration has already ended.

Here's the list though.

Smokescreen, Bladestorm, Petrify, Titanic Rumbler, Sonic Boom, Soundquake, Spectral Scream, Effigy, all of Ember's abilities, Rest, Peaceful Pacify, Maim, Radial Blind, all of Frost's abilities, all of Hydroid's abilities, Dessication, Sandstorm, Scarab Swarm, Sleep Arrow, Radial Disarm, Pull, Magnetize, Crush, Shooting Gallery, Staggering Shield, Sleight of Hand, Prism, Terrify, Soul Punch, Divine Spears, M Prime, Chaos, Absorb, Smite, Reckoning, Charge, Stomp, Miasma, Bastille, Vortex, Shock, Electric Shield, Discharge, Cloud Walker, Tornado.

Most of these even use up less energy per cast to the same or greater effect.

Being usable does not equal being good. 

you seem to ignore that silence last for around at leat 40 seconds and when you move you are stunning other enemies.

Most of the abilities you list need to cast again when you move to a place with new enemies that weren't affected. SIlence doesn't need that. That's the difference.

[GreyEnneract]

Just now, climatiseur said:

you seem to ignore that silence last for around at leat 40 seconds and when you move you are stunning other enemies.

Most of the abilities you list need to cast again when you move to a place with new enemies that weren't affected. SIlence doesn't need that. That's the difference.

The problem is that it lasts 40 seconds without being recastable. You can only stun each enemy once within the same range.

You stun anything within 20 meters, even through walls. Meaning you don't even benefit from the stun over half of the time since it only lasts ~3s.

Just by being recast-able, many other abilities trump Silence as far as CC goes.

There is no valid argument for Silence being better for CC when put up against those abilities.

 

[Kinetos]

7 hours ago, GreyEnneract said:

100% leaves Silence at 20m, meaning you won't be re-procing the mediocre 2s stun.

Move.

7 hours ago, GreyEnneract said:

Leaving you with just the silencing effect, which is now already your passive.

7 hours ago, GreyEnneract said:

Using quotes on mobile is equivalent to Baro Ki'Teer showing up on Pluto when you are MR 1. Useless. 

GreyEnneract didn't say this. 

 

16 hours ago, KinetosImpetus said:

Silence does not silence weapons at all. It deafens nearby enemies, stuns them, and with augment opens them to melee finishers. Enemies out of its range are not affected and still hear everything you do. 

Passive silences weapons, something Silence doesn't even do. 

 

7 hours ago, GreyEnneract said:

Then there's the fact that being silent is useless for the majority of the content in the game.

Passives aren't supposed to break the game. Also using a sniper rifle is useless for the majority of the content in the game. But they went be deleted either. Not everything is going to be useful 100% of the time. Deal with it. 

 

[Kinetos]

5 hours ago, GreyEnneract said:

There is no valid argument for Silence being better for CC when put up against those abilities.

Who is arguing that Silence is the best CC? No one. Not being the best or permanently locking down Texas in one click doesn't make it bad. 

[GreyEnneract]

7 minutes ago, KinetosImpetus said:

Move.

 

 

Passives aren't supposed to break the game. Also using a sniper rifle is useless for the majority of the content in the game. But they went be deleted either. Not everything is going to be useful 100% of the time. Deal with it. 

 

Yes. Move. 20 meters away just to run back for a mediocre stun.

No one was saying that passives should break the game. Not sure who you're responding to.

As for sniper rifles, they're only "useless" against Nullifiers. They can still kill enemies just fine. Your example holds no weight.

1 minute ago, KinetosImpetus said:

Who is arguing that Silence is the best CC? No one. Not being the best or permanently locking down Texas in one click doesn't make it bad. 

Exactly. So why even mention this? No one is saying Silence should lock down an entire map either. All I see here is a strawman.

[Kinetos]

1 minute ago, GreyEnneract said:

Yes. Move. 20 meters away just to run back for a mediocre stun.

Banshee moves or dies. Do. Not. Stand. Still. Ever. If you are constantly moving anyway, you are constantly stunning. 

 

5 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

No one was saying that passives should break the game. Not sure who you're responding to.

As for sniper rifles, they're only "useless" against Nullifiers. They can still kill enemies just fine. Your example holds no weight.

13 minutes ago, KinetosImpetus said:

Who is arguing that Silence is the best CC? No one. Not being the best or permanently locking down Texas in one click doesn't make it bad. 

Exactly. So why even mention this? No one is saying Silence should lock down an entire map either. All I see here is a strawman.

Responding to you. You say Silence is useless because something else is better. You say silencing weapons is a redundant passive. But it isn’t, see the part where I quoted myself. Anything snipers do shotguns can do better. Just like your opinion on Silence. If you admit snipers aren't useless but not Silence it just sounds like Banshee isn't your playstyle. 

[GreyEnneract]

Just now, KinetosImpetus said:

Banshee moves or dies. Do. Not. Stand. Still. Ever. If you are constantly moving anyway, you are constantly stunning. 

 

Responding to you. You say Silence is useless because something else is better. You say silencing weapons is a redundant passive. But it isn’t, see the part where I quoted myself. Anything snipers do shotguns can do better. Just like your opinion on Silence. If you admit snipers aren't useless but not Silence it just sounds like Banshee isn't your playstyle. 

Constantly moving to survive applies to almost every frame. Constantly moving back and forth 20 meters does not.

Again, I don't know who you're responding to, as I haven't said "Silence" is useless. Silence is mediocre for CC. Not because "something" else is better, but because the majority of all other CC powers are better. I already listed a use that Silence has.

Being silent in the majority of content is useless, not Silence itself, even though it is still mediocre. You really need to read what people actually type out.

Snipers are mediocre as well, however Shotguns cannot kill enemies at a distance better than Snipers can. Meaning they don't do everything better than Snipers, making your irrelevant example fall flat again.

So far all I see is you putting words in my mouth. Don't do it again.

 

[Kinetos]

39 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

Constantly moving to survive applies to almost every frame. Constantly moving back and forth 20 meters does not.

You don't move back and forth 20m. No other frame has a moving stun wall this effective. All you have to do is move and strike quickly and nothing can move while you are in range. 

[GreyEnneract]

2 minutes ago, KinetosImpetus said:

You don't move back and forth 20m. No other frame has a moving stun wall this effective. All you have to do is move and strike quickly and nothing can move while you are in range. 

Already addressed this point. 

[Kinetos]

Just now, GreyEnneract said:

Already addressed this point. 

You don't have to continually cast it, it moves with you, it hits everything in range. A lot of the abilities you listed aren't even cc. And they don't follow you. 

[GreyEnneract]

Just now, KinetosImpetus said:

You don't have to continually cast it, it moves with you, it hits everything in range. A lot of the abilities you listed aren't even cc. And they don't follow you. 

You understand that you can only stun once, one single time, unless you run out of enemy range again, correct?

Which abilities listed don't CC?

[Kinetos]

3 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

You understand that you can only stun once, one single time, unless you run out of enemy range again, correct?

You understand that if you are moving around you'll stun everything ahead of you and can be out of range of anything left behind you? 

[GreyEnneract]

Just now, KinetosImpetus said:

You understand that if you are moving around you'll stun everything ahead of you and can be out of range of anything left behind you? 

Your inability to answer reveals that you can no longer defend your viewpoint. 

Not that you were doing so successfully in the first place.

[IceColdHawk]

Silence is alright for a naramon build to safely get to your enemies to proc a crit.

That's all. Otherwise it's a waste of energy. 75 energy, like, seriously? You even gotta keep a limit to your range in order to make some actual use out of silence's cc range. And this further hinders your other abilities. And now that she has a silencing passive, Silence is only screaming for a rework/tweaking.

3 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

Silence is undeniably mediocre CC.

Thanks for staying truthful.

[GreyEnneract]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

Silence is alright for a naramon build to safely get to your enemies to proc a crit.

That's all. Otherwise it's a waste of energy. 75 energy, like, seriously? You even gotta keep a limit to your range in order to make some actual use out of silence's cc range. And this further hinders your other abilities. And now that she has a silencing passive, Silence is only screaming for a rework/tweaking.

Thanks for staying truthful.

It's honestly not hard, but no problem good sir.

[Kinetos]

Smokescreen,  smorter range, just as short duration, must recast

Bladestorm, damage ability.  It only "cc" s enemies because it takes too long to make the kill

Titanic Rumbler, aggro is soft cc, bending over in pain is hard cc

Soundquake, depends on position whether it's suicide or not, either way, prevents you from doing anything else 

Spectral Scream, not even worth a response, this ability stinks

Effigy, stationary

all of Ember's abilities, besides WoF, have to recast, WoF doesn't hit everything at once, and drains energy

, Peaceful Pacify, slow, damage reduction, not hard cc

Maim, now this one has too much range, and doesn't open finishers, and drains energy 

all of Frost's abilities, single target, slow, slow, stationary, requires recast if moving. 

all of Hydroid's abilities, hard to aim, relies on rng, collision bugs

Dessication, recast

Sandstorm, slows you down, drains energy

Scarab Swarm, have to charge it, somewhat stationary

Sleep Arrow, recast,

Radial Disarm, now they just charge you with sticks 

Crush, short duration, you can't do anything while casting, must recast

  Sleight of Hand, situational , 

, Soul Punch, single target 

, Electric Shield, how is this even cc?  Shock through it? Sit there and wait for someone to maybe run into it? 

[Kinetos]

Like some of those, Silence has its niche. 

[IceColdHawk]

5 minutes ago, KinetosImpetus said:

Like some of those, Silence has its niche. 

Yeah, and that niche is definitely not worth 75 energy.

[Kinetos]

2 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Yeah, and that niche is definitely not worth 75 energy.

To you. 

[Stratego89]

I want to say that her new passive indeed dealt a serious blow to silence- but honestly it never did it's job outside of the stun anyways. It didn't silence stuff in range like it should have (and should STILL do) since it only deafens enemies in range- meaning if they shoot and something else hears them they react. If silence made EVERYONE's weapons silent enemies and allies alike in range- it would finally work properly as a stealth ability, and her passive would not overwhelm it but would still be useful in making her a stealth based frame and saving her energy.

[IceColdHawk]

6 minutes ago, KinetosImpetus said:

To you. 

Of course to me. I'm at least able to see it's obvious flaws. And at least i actually want banshee to not have an overpriced placeholder ability.

Stop denying the truth.

 

Edited June 7, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[Kinetos]

2 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Of course to me. I'm at least able to see it's obvious flaws. And at least i actually want banshee to not have an overpriced placeholder ability.

Stop denying the truth.

 

Could it be better? Yes, see Stratego89's post. 

Is it worthless as is, or did the passive make it worth less to me? No.