Blessing Drastic Changes: No More Insta Heals!

[jjpdn]

Blessing is broken in a way no other healing ability has ever been broken before in like... the history of video games. Its able to be spammed and also fully heals. Theoretically, a dedicated enough Trinity could literally stare at an enemy, turn it into an energy battery and hit 4 after every cast forever. However, I don't think anybody hates their life that much yet.

So.... I suggest.........

The removal of its healing!

"But then, how would Trinity save anyone? Damage reduction is not an ult, or at least, is a stupid ult and still spam-worthy!"

Well, here is what I suggest:

What Blessing instead does is:

-makes every ally that takes non-self inflicted fatal or heavy damage within 1 second after cast send out a shockwave. Shockwave ragdolls all enemies hit by it, but deals no damage (range of wave is affected by power range). Also destroys all enemy projectiles in range and missiles locked on him. 

-Fatal damage is ignored

-staggers any enemy that was targeting that ally (affected by power duration).

-one of the toughest enemies near the ally is transformed into a Well of Life (unaffected by power range), but doesn't gain health 10x (unlike Trinity's first ability). This enemy takes 100% more damage too. (max heal and duration is affected by power strength and duration)

-*NEW* empowers ally with 300% damage (on top of any other buff, multiplicately) for the next X seconds, same as the duration of the edited Well of Life 

-ability renamed to Reversal of Fate, Bastion of Hope (cough XD ), or Panic Button. 

Technicalities:

Not recastable for each ally until their Well of Lifed enemy ends. However, you can still cast it on the rest of allies. Auto-targets. 

Stagger overrides any enemy animation, unlike normal stuns. 

Instant cast

Heavy damage: more than 30% health removed per second (or something like this)

 

But why is this Blessing so situational? 

Well, because if it wasn't, it would be spam worthy or plain useless. After all, Trinity has EV. Energy is not a limit. EV and Link are spammy enough. 

 

What do you guys think? Remember, this is not a discussion about Energy Vampire!

Edited June 12, 2016 by jjpdn

[Ciaus]

1 hour ago, jjpdn said:

-and most importantly... BLESSING DOES NOT EFFECT TRINITY HERSELF

I liked the idea until this? Why make unnecessarily squishy? You literally just remove versatility from her kit (emergency saves for self, and to help her revive teammates) and make one of her abilities literally useless for solo play. 
The rest of the idea sounds quite interesting. 

[jjpdn]

8 hours ago, Ciaus said:

I liked the idea until this? Why make unnecessarily squishy? You literally just remove versatility from her kit (emergency saves for self, and to help her revive teammates) and make one of her abilities literally useless for solo play. 
The rest of the idea sounds quite interesting. 

Good point about solo play.

[Shockwave-]

so turn her 4 power into a power that is only valuable when someone is on the brink of death and you ahve to time it perfectly or it doesn't do anything at all.

If they get low on health but kill the guy that is shooting them your 4... your BEST power.... does nothing because there are no enemies around them, any more, and you can't heal them before the next enemy/wave arrives.

 

What is "threat of death". In higher level constant that means an enemy is in sight (cause they 1 shot you).

Edited June 11, 2016 by Shockwave-

[kleerr2]

Not only does this whole rework not make any sense in general(performance wise), but pretty much every aspect that you noted contradicts another one, how you managed to actually do that is beyond me...

[jjpdn]

7 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

so turn her 4 power into a power that is only valuable when someone is on the brink of death and you ahve to time it perfectly or it doesn't do anything at all.

If they get low on health but kill the guy that is shooting them your 4... your BEST power.... does nothing because there are no enemies around them, any more, and you can't heal them before the next enemy/wave arrives.

 

What is "threat of death". In higher level constant that means an enemy is in sight (cause they 1 shot you).

No they dont.

Even a level 150 Heavy Gunner takes about three seconds to kill you if youre dodging. Seeing as that meeting a level 150 doesn't happen like, ever, except on infinite missions that has gone too far already... And not forgetting the fact that almost every frame have some way to get ridiculous damage mitigation.

And if there was only one enemy left, good job, if your ult was avalanche it doesnt matter. If you wanted to heal that person, you could use Well of Life like a normal person. Forgot about that? Oh wait, nobody uses that anymore? Totally wasnt because you could hit a button and insta full heal...

Also, wrong on 'best' power. Its more 'a power'. I've never seen Avalanche compared to Snow Globe, as arguably, Snow Globe is much better in most situations. Or how about Radial Blind and Exalted Blade? Arguably, both are equally good for different situations. 

And remember, numbers can always move around. 50% health, 200 health, whatever.

Edited June 12, 2016 by jjpdn

[jjpdn]

6 hours ago, kleerr2 said:

Not only does this whole rework not make any sense in general(performance wise), but pretty much every aspect that you noted contradicts another one, how you managed to actually do that is beyond me...

Expand?

[Shockwave-]

48 minutes ago, jjpdn said:

No they dont.

Even a level 150 Heavy Gunner takes about three seconds to kill you if youre dodging. Seeing as that meeting a level 150 doesn't happen like, ever, except on infinite missions that has gone too far already... And not forgetting the fact that almost every frame have some way to get ridiculous damage mitigation.

And if there was only one enemy left, good job, if your ult was avalanche it doesnt matter. If you wanted to heal that person, you could use Well of Life like a normal person. Forgot about that? Oh wait, nobody uses that anymore? Totally wasnt because you could hit a button and insta full heal...

Also, wrong on 'best' power. Its more 'a power'. I've never seen Avalanche compared to Snow Globe, as arguably, Snow Globe is much better in most situations. Or how about Radial Blind and Exalted Blade? Arguably, both are equally good for different situations. 

And remember, numbers can always move around. 50% health, 200 health, whatever.

But a sub 100 lvl bombard, ballista and Hykka master, as well as corpus bombs can one shot you. So Yes, they do.

[jjpdn]

3 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

But a sub 100 lvl bombard, ballista and Hykka master, as well as corpus bombs can one shot you. So Yes, they do.

Corpus bombs can be shot. Your fault for ignoring them. lvl 100 Bombard and Ballistas can one shot you without warning, but DE is making them telegraph. Will BECOME your own fault.

And old Blessing wouldn't have saved you anyways. 

After all, bleedout is in the realm of Oberon and Nekros, two of the hardest to play and possibly weakest frames.

Edited June 12, 2016 by jjpdn

[Shockwave-]

well then no healing is necessary at all, as all dmg is your own fault..... Who cares whose' fault it is? This is about trinity's ability to heal teammates, not decide whether they deserve healing bcause they got shot too much...

[jjpdn]

8 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

well then no healing is necessary at all, as all dmg is your own fault..... Who cares whose' fault it is? This is about trinity's ability to heal teammates, not decide whether they deserve healing bcause they got shot too much...

Have you played other video games? 

Healing players makes it so that allies can survive the poking and prodding of weaker enemies. 

However, if your teammate is not skilled enough to not run into avoidable one shot kills (I'm not saying that they're avoidable AT THE MOMENT), then sorry, but there's nothing you can do. You're just the healer. Not freaken God mode giver. 

And her heal ability is not utterly comprimised. Just balanced. She still has the good old Well of Life that is actually worthy of something, but overshadowed by other abilities.

Edited June 12, 2016 by jjpdn

[Epsik-kun]

23 hours ago, jjpdn said:

no other healing ability has ever been broken before in like... the history of video games

That's quite some statement for a someone who only played Warframe.

[jjpdn]

6 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

That's quite some statement for a someone who only played Warframe.

I actually don't remember any popular video games with such a broken heal ability. If you have an example, plz give it. 

Halo? Mass Effect? Legend of Zelda? No infinitely spammable insta full heal there.

Edited June 12, 2016 by jjpdn

[Hellmaker2004]

5 minutes ago, jjpdn said:

Have you played other video games? 

Healing players makes it so that allies can survive the poking and prodding of weaker enemies. 

However, if your teammate is not skilled enough to not run into avoidable one shot kills (I'm not saying that they're avoidable AT THE MOMENT), then sorry, but there's nothing you can do. You're just the healer. Not freaken God mode giver. 

And her heal ability is not comprimised. She has the good old Well of Life that is actually worthy of something, but overshadowed by other abilities.

Well of Life is the worst healing ability in the game, so far the only one that can hold a first place over Well of Life is Nezha's Blazing Chakram when it comes to healing allies (And that still works better than WoL when he is healing himself).

[jjpdn]

8 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

Well of Life is the worst healing ability in the game, so far the only one that can hold a first place over Well of Life is Nezha's Blazing Chakram when it comes to healing allies (And that still works better than WoL when he is healing himself).

It heals 400 health per ally easy when they shoot it for 25 energy. 

Chakram heals 225. 

Rejuvenation heals... er... was it 525 in total, for 75 energy?

Oups sorry, misread, which other heals are you talking about? 

Edited June 12, 2016 by jjpdn

[Hellmaker2004]

Healing per energy is not the same as Effective healing. 

 

Well of Life heals up to 400 health. Whoever attack the target first.

Chakram Heals up to 225 per foe hit to all allies in range.

Renewal heal all allies for 125 map wide(Projectile have travel time but unlimited range) for 25 energy and then adds a very stupid healing per second effect with high cost.

 

The fact that Inaros can already achieve higher health healing per second than Trinity can with his number four skill and yet it is simply not enough because of how much burst damage this game have.

 

The other healers are not bad, but you can not heal what is dead. And most of them have stupid mechanics, stuff like Well of Life also have. Trinity have never been good because of Well of Life, and i can say with high confident that it is among the top worst skills in the game.

[Epsik-kun]

3 minutes ago, jjpdn said:

I actually don't remember

Does not equal "it doesn't exist". Of course you would fail to find a healing spell in Halo.

First thing that comes to mind:
Might&Magic 9 had a spell "Divine Intervention", that completely healed/revived the whole team, removed all statuses, restored all mana, had no penalties and casting limits.

A lot of games have abilities that can give their user outright immortality, so you can't even try to compare Bless to them.

And, unlike in Warframe, in these games health doesn't become an alive/dead flag after some time in - you can't get oneshotted from full health down to zero. In warframe - you can. Currently healing has to be strong and fast - either way it will be useless, like in Oberon's case. Fix that first, then think about whether Bless balanced or not.

[jjpdn]

6 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Does not equal "it doesn't exist". Of course you would fail to find a healing spell in Halo.

First thing that comes to mind:
Might&Magic 9 had a spell "Divine Intervention", that completely healed/revived the whole team, removed all statuses, restored all mana, had no penalties and casting limits.

A lot of games have abilities that can give their user outright immortality, so you can't even try to compare Bless to them.

And, unlike in Warframe, in these games health doesn't become an alive/dead flag after some time in - you can't get oneshotted from full health down to zero. In warframe - you can. Currently healing has to be strong and fast - either way it will be useless, like in Oberon's case. Fix that first, then think about whether Bless balanced or not.

Hm, never heard of that. I guess maybe lesser known games would have some abilities like so. Either that, or I'm the only one who haven't heard of it. There must have been SOME kind of limitation on the spell's access though. 

Infinite Immortality? Which one? 

Edited June 12, 2016 by jjpdn

[motorfirebox]

I actually agree with the general idea of taking away Blessing's heal. I think Well of Life should (after an extensive rework to make it actually useful) be Trin's bread and butter healing ability.

[jjpdn]

6 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

Healing per energy is not the same as Effective healing. 

 

Well of Life heals up to 400 health. Whoever attack the target first.

Chakram Heals up to 225 per foe hit to all allies in range.

Renewal heal all allies for 125 map wide(Projectile have travel time but unlimited range) for 25 energy and then adds a very stupid healing per second effect with high cost.

 

The fact that Inaros can already achieve higher health healing per second than Trinity can with his number four skill and yet it is simply not enough because of how much burst damage this game have.

 

The other healers are not bad, but you can not heal what is dead. And most of them have stupid mechanics, stuff like Well of Life also have. Trinity have never been good because of Well of Life, and i can say with high confident that it is among the top worst skills in the game.

Hm... maybe remove the heal cap on Well of Life? 

[Hellmaker2004]

8 minutes ago, jjpdn said:

Hm... maybe remove the heal cap on Well of Life? 

And why would you want to have a Frame that can heal if you attack a debuffed target, when you can have a frame that can easily offer 1000 Healing per second to everyone nearby by simply standing near the mobs?

 

Because that is what Inaros can currently offer, he can blind foes infront of him, he can stun lock foes for a very long time, he can survive a lot more than Trinity can if you did not have Blessing and he can easily offer AoE stun that reaches 1000 healing health per second easily.

 

Inaros is a great frame for providing support to allies. But he lacks one thing that this game requires. Damage resistance to allies due to how high damage foe deals. It is pointless to heal your allies for 1000 healing per second, when they only have 300 health and die in one hit.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Hellmaker2004

[jjpdn]

4 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

And why would you want to have a Frame that can heal if you attack a debuffed target, when you can have a frame that can easily offer 1000 Healing per second to everyone nearby by simply standing near the mobs?

 

Because that is what Inaros can currently offer, he can blind foes infront of him, he can stun lock foes for a very long time, he can survive a lot more than Trinity can if you did not have Blessing and he can easily offer AoE stun that reaches 1000 healing health per second easily.

 

Inaros is a great frame for providing support to allies. But he lacks one thing that this game requires. Damage resistance to allies due to how high damage foe deals. It is pointless to heal yourt allies for 1000 healing per second, when they only have 300 health and die in one hit.

Hm well that just sounds pretty cheap. 

I guess its a weird day when a one button click (LMB for shooting) full heal (lets say the cap is removed) is actually bad. 

I'll need more experience with Inaros to say more, but  I heard from friends though that its easy to break his Ult chain though. Is that true (probably not)? 

Edited June 12, 2016 by jjpdn

[Hellmaker2004]

Just now, jjpdn said:

Hm well that just sounds pretty cheap. 

I guess its a weird day when a one button click (LMB for shooting) full heal (lets say the cap is removed) is actually bad. 

I'll need more experience with Inaros to say more, but  I heard from friends though that its easy to break his Ult chain though. Is that true? 

It breaks as easy as Well of Life does, if the target die they no longer heal. They would both be suffering from the same problem.

His four is worthless for low to mid level because of that, but once you play high level it is on the edge of godlike for stunning, because at that point people who get shot die so there is no healing value in it.

[Epsik-kun]

6 minutes ago, jjpdn said:

There must have been SOME kind of limitation on the spell's access though. 

Infinite Immortality? Which one? 

There were limitations in other games of the series - but not in 9.

Hysteria, duh. Well, if you want that absolutely uncounterable immortality, some of semi-infinitely scaling games will do the trick. I can't remember any actual titles right now, but there are some cases of stuff like regeneration auras, that give more regen than damage you can possibly receive on any point of the game, there are various right-away immortality spells with ways to get their cooldown to be lower than duration and stuff.

The main point, is that healing in warframe matters for like levels 1~20 without Nightmare and T4. Everything else is not "healing" it is "preventing people from being destroyed in seconds". You need some actual effective health first for enemies to take some time tearing through, before you can have a moderate healing spell. Bless is really unbalanced on paper, but in fact, it won't stop your teammates from constantly dying.

[jjpdn]

16 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

There were limitations in other games of the series - but not in 9.

Hysteria, duh. Well, if you want that absolutely uncounterable immortality, some of semi-infinitely scaling games will do the trick. I can't remember any actual titles right now, but there are some cases of stuff like regeneration auras, that give more regen than damage you can possibly receive on any point of the game, there are various right-away immortality spells with ways to get their cooldown to be lower than duration and stuff.

The main point, is that healing in warframe matters for like levels 1~20 without Nightmare and T4. Everything else is not "healing" it is "preventing people from being destroyed in seconds". You need some actual effective health first for enemies to take some time tearing through, before you can have a moderate healing spell. Bless is really unbalanced on paper, but in fact, it won't stop your teammates from constantly dying.

Aren't they nerfind Hysteria a bit by bit, though? 15 energy per second is pretty big, though the last time I tried that it felt like the energy cost was 4 energy per second (~1.5 after mods) still after using it for ~5 min?

Edited June 12, 2016 by jjpdn