Overpowered players

[Norune]

I'll be fine with whatever solution is created for damage in the game, so long as I'm compensated for the time and resources I poured into making myself stronger.

Edited June 24, 2016 by FIGHTTILLYOUDROP
Proper Grammar

[Azrael]

18 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Mag with a corrosive Torid.

It's not a challenge. It's tedium.

You made it tedium. I am become disappoint, destroyer of expectations.

 

15 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

I mean, good on you. You named one thing that technically can be done in Warframe that is challenging. The problem is where that challenge comes from.

It doesn't take much discipline to assign yourself challenges. Why not push yourself? Do you really need DE to make you push yourself?

[DatDarkOne]

46 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

This sounds like fun! What frame / weapon did you use?

Hopefully not mag, I would become disappoint...   :)

I used Ivara for all 3. I don't really care for playing Mag just yet. She's near the bottom of my list of frames at the moment.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

Mag with a corrosive Torid.

It's not a challenge. It's tedium.

I don't have the Torid, but isn't it classified as a Launcher?  Since the Sortie mission was Rifles only, this brings some doubt.

Edited June 24, 2016 by DatDarkOne
correction and reworded

[Azrael]

5 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I don't have the Torid, but isn't it classified as a Launcher?  Since the Sortie mission was Rifles only, this brings doubt that you even tried it.  Just said you did.  Hmmmm

Slow down there, pard.  :)

I'm pretty sure that the tonkor has been taken along to assault rifle only sorties. It's hilarious, and probably wrong, but it seems to work. So bringing torid to the sortie today is feasible. Not saying he didn't go with a squad, but it's a little soon to accuse him of lying.  :)

That being said, when people say "the game's boring because there's no challenge because tonkor and because mag etc. etc." all it does is convince me that the person talking is a boring player. If someone's claim is that they are incapable of doing something in an interesting way because a boringly easy way exists, I would argue that makes them a boring person.

I do T4 survivals with an un-modded inaros and my mk-1 braton + regular skana, with no naramon. Now that's fun!

[Azrael]

42 minutes ago, FIGHTTILLYOUDROP said:

I'll be fine with whatever solution is created for damage in the game, so long as I'm compensated for the time and resources I poured into making myself stronger.

Totally with you there. I'll adapt, whatever it is. I just don't want to get screwed.

[DatDarkOne]

55 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Slow down there, pard.  :)

I'm pretty sure that the tonkor has been taken along to assault rifle only sorties. It's hilarious, and probably wrong, but it seems to work. So bringing torid to the sortie today is feasible. Not saying he didn't go with a squad, but it's a little soon to accuse him of lying.  :)

That being said, when people say "the game's boring because there's no challenge because tonkor and because mag etc. etc." all it does is convince me that the person talking is a boring player. If someone's claim is that they are incapable of doing something in an interesting way because a boringly easy way exists, I would argue that makes them a boring person.

I do T4 survivals with an un-modded inaros and my mk-1 braton + regular skana, with no naramon. Now that's fun!

I don't mean to say he's a liar.  I edited to reword my post also.  It's just that when I looked it up, I noticed that inconsistency.  I was just hoping for him to shed more light on that for me.  I also totally agree with you on claims of "No challenge".  I use Ivara to do survival missions (for everything really).  I like doing them, but I don't claim there isn't any possible challenge because I'm using a frame that can trivialize that type of mission.  I could easily use another frame to increase the challenge for that type of mission.  I used that an example as I'm very familiar with it.  

Spoiler

I'm the type that plays for "style" myself.  I will sacrifice being most powerful if I can play in a cooler more style way.  So, Fashion frame has gotten me bad.  :D  

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by DatDarkOne
correction and grammar

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Itz chibi said:

soloing a sortie

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I challenge you to do the current one Solo.  It has Vay Hek as the Mission 3 Sortie boss.  Have fun.  :D

  Reveal hidden contents

P.S.  I've just finished it. 

 

since this is a coop game first and foremost i was hesitant to accept your answer but then i thought yeah why not (as if it even makes alot of a difference):

notice how my loadout is not even commonly considered broken gear (soma borderline probably but it's still tame compared to tonkor for example, which by the way i could have taken with me regardless the restriction of assault rifles only... oh and my focus is zenurik, yep). i died a couple of times during the hek mission (2 times i didnt even see what killed me, 3rd time was a wild kubrow that snuck behind my shield fort XD) and i did use ammo, shield and energy restores. still did everything first try, approx. half an hour overall.

the first was spy, i always solo those anyway (because pugs are a gamble considering hacking), so yeah: loki. minigames=hardest part.

second was a rescue. i just ran by everything with volt and admittedly became somewhat lucky with the cell (chose the correct one on first try). during the escape i could try out the new riot shield rag dolling... it was hilarious! :D great new feature! (see i give the devs credit, too, where due XD)

3 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

100 wave T4d without frost limbo or mirage!

these are conditions posed upon by yourself, not the game.

 

look, i didn't want this to become about my or anyone's e-peen ok? it just seems to me that certain folks aren't even aware of the crazy cheese potential in this game. jesus, some guy in the recently deceased tonkor-monster-thread (rip) boasted about having over two THOUSAND hard rathuum kills during the last event. and he did it while perma invisible and pressing e, the only danger being the one to fall asleep. with stuff like this there is no real challenge in this game ever, period. again, only if you deliberately choose to avoid cheese tactics.

edit: thanks to chipputer for elaborating on the matter before i could. he made some valid points.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir
typos, mainly

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

look, i didn't want this to become about my or anyone's e-peen ok? it just seems to me that certain folks aren't even aware of the crazy cheese potential in this game. jesus, some guy in the recently deseased tonkor-monster-thread (rip) boasted about having over two THOUSAND hard rathuum kills during the last event. and he did it while perma invisible and pressing e, the only danger being the one to fall asleep. with stuff like this there is no real challenge in this game ever, period. again, only if you deliberately choose to avoid cheese tactics.

Congratz and thank you for trying it.  I knew it could be done.  It was just a way to offer a challenge to someone claiming there wasn't any at all.  I'm glad that you had fun with it.  I agree that you can't be challenged if you are constantly squeezing the cheese.  :D  

[Azrael]

11 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

notice how my loadout is not even commonly considered broken gear

I did indeed. Very nicely done. You should be proud.

I imagine it was tough as volt, since it's not exactly easy to keep any reasonable amount of energy in that fight...

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

Congratz and thank you for trying it.  I knew it could be done.  It was just a way to offer a challenge to someone claiming there wasn't any at all.  I'm glad that you had fun with it.  I agree that you can't be challenged if you are constantly squeezing the cheese.  :D  

actually thank you for the challenge! it was rather fun! without you i probably wouldn't have even bothererd to try actually :D

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

1 minute ago, Lord_Azrael said:

I did indeed. Very nicely done. You should be proud.

I imagine it was tough as volt, since it's not exactly easy to keep any reasonable amount of energy in that fight...

hey thank you! yeah well, like i said i did spam some restores, later zenurik mostly took care of it.

i play pretty much everything with volt, he's my beloved mainframe (hence the av) and i consider him to be rock solid really (even before the rework) :)

[-CM-Emptiness]

6 hours ago, nomoreraining said:

Breaking the world's raid record.

Haha I seriously wanted to break that one. Unfortunately the change happened before the team could optimize their builds.

What's interesting though, is everyone here who complains about cheese, actually cheeses all content themselves. If you are going to use perma-invisibility and weapons like Tonkor or Synoid, how will the changes ever give you a challenge. You guys want other weapons to be viable (through nerfs), but you won't even use them. Same with frames. It's an inherent aspect of players in Warframe - to cheese anything and everything. And don't give me that 'enemies require it' excuse. It it was really up to that, we wouldn't even be here discussing this topic; we would be waiting for the enemy-rework.

Edited June 24, 2016 by -CM-Emptiness

[DatDarkOne]

19 minutes ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

Haha I seriously wanted to break that one. Unfortunately the change happened before the team could optimize their builds.

What's interesting though, is everyone here who complains about cheese, actually cheeses all content themselves. If you are going to use perma-invisibility and weapons like Tonkor or Synoid, how will the changes ever give you a challenge. You guys want other weapons to be viable (through nerfs), but you won't even use them. Same with frames. It's an inherent aspect of players in Warframe - to cheese anything and everything. And don't give me that 'enemies require it' excuse. It it was really up to that, we wouldn't even be here discussing this topic; we would be waiting for the enemy-rework.

A post so nice, you need to see it twice.  :D

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

8 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

so then limit the players ability to gain these massively nice energy gaining abilities like restores...oh wait ! syndicates and dojo research + credit cost and resource amounts !!!!! fleeting is in the OD vaults or pay plat. Zenurik is behind a Quest lock and .....Arcane energize is behind the raid ! new players cant get access to these easily without paying or having a nice friend. DE put a content "limit " of sort and players walked right past it. thats not a reason to nerf or remove anything sorry bro. only means we need a better limiter on getting said abilities making them more of a "rare " drop will get better feedback then "drop the nerf hammer"

Is it really so hard to wait for 75% discount (they drop pretty often for me) and buy the few mods you need? And let's not pretend that Derelict exterminate is hard.

8 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

so wait , is he overpowered for being able to do , or want to do 2h+ solo ina t4s. or is it the opposite of being OP? lil confused at the point your trying to make + i can do that without efficiency mods. the ability to Gain energy back at an increased rate is deserving of players who have spent the time to be able to do so. ill say as iv said before, limiting energy massively would limit my fun in this game. when i explain to people why i love this game one of my instant reactions is ( because i have access to almost 30 warframes with 4 different powers each at least ) it would not sound good to others or feel good for me as a player to say " iv spent 3000 hours into this game but cant even keep up energy " 

He is OP for anything other than long endless, sorties and Raids. If players only wanted the power fantasy they would never have left the star chart other than to farm parts. What actually happens is that they don't want to feel OP, they want to feel challenged and so they visit game modes that will provide that challenge. The other option is to gimp yourself.

Oh, so that's how it is. You feel entitled to being able to ignore the energy economy because you've sunk 3000h into the game? Thing is, I haven't invested nearly as much time and can still ignore the energy economy. It doesn't take 3000 hours to max efficiency mods, max Syndicates and focus.

By advocating that energy system shouldn't be fixed, you're supporting DE in giving us cheesy enemies and restrictions (reduced energy) that force us to use our restores, EV, focus,... Is that really what you want?

[DatDarkOne]

 

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

By advocating that energy system shouldn't be fixed, you're supporting DE in giving us cheesy enemies and restrictions (reduced energy) that force us to use our restores, EV, focus,... Is that really what you want?

Ok, let's play devil's advocate for a bit.  You proposed the following as a Energy system rework.  

On 6/15/2016 at 2:40 AM, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

So how could DE fix the energy system?

• Nerf efficiency mods. Reducing the cost of skills to 1/4 is the biggest reason why skills are so spammable. What's worse is that this comes with little to no drawbacks which can be countered by duration mods. Efficiency mods are currently the norm since they basically remove the limit on casting. I suggest giving streamline and fleeting expertise more drawbacks and let them do exactly as their names imply. Force the player to decide between a weaker (streamlined) spammable build or more powerful builds.
• Nerf energy vampire. Energy vampire was OP before but with the recent rework of awarding the remaining energy on kill it has become broken. EV should be reverted back to it's original form.
• Rework Trinity. Not only does trinity outperform any other support frame in healing and damage resistance, she can also serve as an infinite energy generator at the same time. And as if that wasn't enough she can also face tank pretty much anything.
• Limit the restores. Limit restores on each revive so the players can't just spam them or give them a cooldown.

Then you run into this situation where almost none of the above applies.

22 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Ivara doesn't get any benefits from Energy Vampire, Energy Syphon, Energy pizzas, or Energy Overflow while in Prowl.  Only get energy from energy Orbs and Synd Procs

How do you handle this one were DE obviously wanted perma-Prowl to be viable?  Please remember that this is a frame that can't take a hit worth a damn (much like Loki in this regard).  Whose kit is pretty much balanced already and still requires player action to maintain to perma-prowl.  Please don't take any of this the wrong way.  I'm just curious to hear your thoughts on this and how you would approach it while still keeping her kit viable.   Hence the Devil's Advocate part.   :D

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by DatDarkOne
grammar

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

49 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

How do you handle this one were DE obviously wanted perma-Prowl to be viable?

Did they really wanted perma-Prowl? Then what is the point of Quiver? Why would you use noise arrow if you can just sneak on them and execute them? What is the purpose of navigator? Do you really believe they just added Navigator to add one more death flavor you can inflict on an enemy?

49 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Please remember that this is a frame that can't take a hit worth a damn (much like Loki in this regard).  Whose kit is pretty much balanced already and still requires player action to maintain to perma-prowl.  Please don't take any of this the wrong way.  I'm just curious to hear your thoughts on this and how you would approach it while still keeping her kit viable.   Hence the Devil's Advocate part.   :D

Same goes for Loki. You don't really need any of his other skills if you can remain perma invisible and yet, they're still there. The way I see it Loki's decoy is supposed to be his bread and butter for distracting enemies and allowing easier kills. Invisibility was meant for repositioning and assassination of key targets. Finally, radial disarm is meant to disable a room with high number or high powered enemies so the team can deal with them more easily. Remember how Loki was meant to be a "trickster"? Or how Ivara is meant to be an infiltrator based on deception, diversion and long range kills?

[DatDarkOne]

26 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Then what is the point of Quiver?

Utility that has multiple uses and helps party members.   Noise arrow to gather enemies in one location. (completely situational).  Navigator is a throwback skill to Dark Sector.  It's gimicky but still viable, especially with the Glaive and similar weapons.  I can safely assume there aren't many Ivara players that don't at least use 3 of her 4 powers.  This is counting Quiver as one power.  

26 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Same goes for Loki.

I already addressed that in the post.

But none of that gives an response to the request I suggested in regards to Ivara and energy.  It was an honest question based on my curiosity to a given scenerio.  What do I get instead?  Breaking up my statements in an effort to do I don't know what.  Maybe I wasn't clear in my request.  If so, I apologize for not being more clear.  

How would you handle energy in Ivara's case while still keeping her kit viable?

Edited June 24, 2016 by DatDarkOne
correction

[-CM-Emptiness]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

A post so nice, you need to see it twice.  :D

I see what you did there ^^

2 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

He is OP for anything other than long endless, sorties and Raids.

This is your problem. You can't see beyond the Star Chart, of which 3.0 will also be coming. New players use the nodes as a form of progression, hence the level of difficulty. Sure, it can be skipped, but that's not what we're discussing. The point is veterans will never find a challenge with the common nodes of the chart itself. They have attained powerful weapons to compete with the higher-scaling content that you just blatantly disregarded. What sense is there for a new player to move through all the nodes in the system, forma and potato his weapons / frames, get MR21 and then find out he hardly made any 'progression' when he goes to Earth survival only to find out it has suddenly become a challenging mission. Star Chart is typically beginner-moderate level excluding endless. Specifying that as the norm from which to view OP is plain wrong when we have higher-level content created around that premise.

By the way, if you desire challenge, why not create additive content instead of reworking the whole system? Lets say, move survival to a mode, and develop new optional modes specifically for those desiring harder content within the Star Chart. Stealth Challenge, Eximus Challenge, Time Challenge, Precision Challenge etc. You could customize your own experience however you like. I see it as the perfect solution to our problems :P

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

How do you handle energy in Ivara's case while still keeping her kit viable?

You obviously wouldn't be able to perma-prowl for the entire mission anymore(well, maybe you could, but only with a specialized build) . Would that make her unviable? I don't think so. She's not the only squishy frame around after all. Should Nova also complain that she can't spam Mprime in every room anymore?

2 minutes ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

I see what you did there ^^

This is your problem. You can't see beyond the Star Chart, of which 3.0 will also be coming. New players use the nodes as a form of progression, hence the level of difficulty. Sure, it can be skipped, but that's not what we're discussing. The point is veterans will never find a challenge with the common nodes of the chart itself. They have attained powerful weapons to compete with the higher-scaling content that you just blatantly disregarded. What sense is there for a new player to move through all the nodes in the system, forma and potato his weapons / frames, get MR21 and then find out he hardly made any 'progression' when he goes to Earth survival only to find out it has suddenly become a challenging mission. Star Chart is typically beginner-moderate level excluding endless. Specifying that as the norm from which to view OP is plain wrong when we have higher-level content created around that premise.

By the way, if you desire challenge, why not create additive content instead of reworking the whole system? Lets say, move survival to a mode, and develop new optional modes specifically for those desiring harder content within the Star Chart. Stealth Challenge, Eximus Challenge, Time Challenge, Precision Challenge etc. You could customize your own experience however you like. I see it as the perfect solution to our problems :P

That was not what I was proposing. I said that the starchart is completed too easily especially with all the power creep weapons and ever more powerful frames. Completing those missions also doesn't require much in the form of skill beyond modding, which in turn requires little more than basic math and can even be done automatically for pretty good results. I proposed to introduce conditional mods that would force players to act more like ninjas and make modding into a tool to introduce more varied builds and play styles instead of just changing weapon statistics in general. I wanted mods to actually change how you use a weapon. The point wasn't to force vets back to earth, but to introduce skill as an important modifier on all levels of warframe. That doesn't mean that Vets would be on the same level as newbies. All those formaed top tier weapons can't really be compared with what the newbies use ( well, unless they get Boltor prime at MR2, but that's another story) and the same goes for all the maxed mods. They would also make better use of game mechanics and that would greatly improve the amount of damage they could do. There would still be "End-game" content, it just wouldn't have to be a horde of 80+ level eximuses with insane EHP and damage. Remember how you're supposed to be master of gun and blade? You're supposed to use skill to beat tough enemies, not just compete with weapon statistics and build efficiency.

 

[DatDarkOne]

8 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

You obviously wouldn't be able to perma-prowl for the entire mission anymore(well, maybe you could, but only with a specialized build) . Would that make her unviable? I don't think so. She's not the only squishy frame around after all. Should Nova also complain that she can't spam Mprime in every room anymore?

Come on dude.  If you don't want to offer an answer just say so.  If you don't know enough about the frame to give a good answer, just saying so would also work.  No need for all this run-around.  I'm not a Stormtooper to be easily distracted with mind-tricks.  So, please stop insulting my intelligence.  

Edited June 24, 2016 by DatDarkOne
added content

[(PSN)Phoenix32778]

A. if they take serration and other mods out like that we will all be doing baby damage to level 100 mobs. On top of which it isnt exactly easy to level those mods up to full . Most people have them around level 6 . Just saying. Also LEAVE Trinity Alone she has been nerfed so much , her forehead as NERF wiffle bat circles on it with the word NERF written plain as day on her. Seriously no other Frame has been nerfed this badly. If you want to nerf a frame NERF Inaros. Or Excalibur , or Oberon just to name a few. She is weak as hell and the LINK skill which is supposed to pass on damage that hits her to enemies linked to her  and well to be honest thats a joke it doesnt work for crap. I mean my link last a good deal of time and yet she dies instantly and i dont see the enemies she  is links to die when she does. I think this skill needs to be repaired a bit .. It is not working correctly , she is really the only healer in the game and to constantly make her weaker - while others get power boosts - its unfair to those who would play a healing role in parties. you basically make it so no one will play her . I player her less since she was downgrades on ps4 .. Its sickening to be honest. To give players a fair change so he scaling seems a little better perhaps let us level up more to at least level 50 or  60 since that is the minimum level for sortie mobs.

[-CM-Emptiness]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

That was not what I was proposing. I said that the starchart is completed too easily especially with all the power creep weapons and ever more powerful frames. Completing those missions also doesn't require much in the form of skill beyond modding, which in turn requires little more than basic math and can even be done automatically for pretty good results. I proposed to introduce conditional mods that would force players to act more like ninjas and make modding into a tool to introduce more varied builds and play styles instead of just changing weapon statistics in general. I wanted mods to actually change how you use a weapon. The point wasn't to force vets back to earth, but to introduce skill as an important modifier on all levels of warframe. That doesn't mean that Vets would be on the same level as newbies. All those formaed top tier weapons can't really be compared with what the newbies use ( well, unless they get Boltor prime at MR2, but that's another story) and the same goes for all the maxed mods. They would also make better use of game mechanics and that would greatly improve the amount of damage they could do. There would still be "End-game" content, it just wouldn't have to be a horde of 80+ level eximuses with insane EHP and damage. Remember how you're supposed to be master of gun and blade? You're supposed to use skill to beat tough enemies, not just compete with weapon statistics and build efficiency.

 

Your intentions have meaning at least. But your method is still flawed. For instance, removing mandatory mods without fixing enemies or the outliers first, doesn't remove the OP, it only scales it down. Along with the under-powered weapons as well, which introduces yet another issue to the developers. At least a MR lock would prevent access to those OP weapons until a certain point of progression.

Warframe is also not a majorly skill-based game. Not mainly PVP either. We don't want to limit players to only those who possess some degree of skill. I agree with mods as a medium for build variety, but forcing players to skillful play is undesired. The preferable option is a choice, with incentive. Mods are also limited to innate weapon mechanics, so the effect will be relatively insignificant in that regard. Not to mention, inconsistencies with weapons like Tonkor when scoring head-shots every time on contact. There is absolutely no difference in this case. Regarding that 'be a ninja' mindset...Sorry but this isn't a point in itself. We just had our speed reduced, it certainly doesn't feel ninja-like. In fact, nothing in the game actually does. The pace is way too slow to even consider the correlation.

Skill is a two-way mechanism. You stated that enemy-scaling stemmed from player OP. Which would mean DE could introduce a skill-oriented game-play from the other side as well, by introducing unique enemy mechanics such as the already available Nullifiers, Bursas, Juggernauts etc. The sole fact that these enemies require a change to the meta style of playing, suggests a certain level of skill is required to beat them. I for one, would not want to rid of these enemy-types, otherwise we would be back to aim and shoot with typical Lancers, Crewmen and Chargers.

PS. I think you're confusing me. One time you are saying you desire a challenge, now I see this "There would still be "End-game" content, it just wouldn't have to be a horde of 80+ level eximuses with insane EHP and damage." One cannot incorporate both perspectives as a rationale in their argument.

 

 

[Chipputer]

9 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

How do you handle this one were DE obviously wanted perma-Prowl to be viable?

This is probably where DE would need to re-do the math as far as the relationship between duration and channeled abilities go. If they ever nerfed efficiency they would have to take a long, hard look at how it affects frames with channeled skills. Equinox is another frame that this same question would apply to.

Essentially, it would have to be a system where duration would actually have a noticeable effect on the time between energy consumption. Right now it's too negligible.

Beyond that, it is still an acceptable answer to say that certain options wouldn't be viable anymore. World on Fire built Ember, which is clearly something that DE wanted to allow people to build to have on permanently, wouldn't necessarily be viable anymore with these changes-- you'd have to play smarter and know when it was appropriate to use your AoE auto-nuke. The same would have to apply to Ivara. You would occasionally have to drop Prowl to keep your energy up. That isn't a horrible thought and it wouldn't destroy her viability at end game, especially with all the other tools in her kit (IE: shoot down invis-arrow, stand in it, end Prowl, drop energy restore, leave invisible zone, re-enter Prowl).

I don't think OP worded their answer to you very eloquently, but saying they're insulting your intelligence because they didn't give you the answer you were looking for is childish.

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

6 hours ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

Your intentions have meaning at least. But your method is still flawed. For instance, removing mandatory mods without fixing enemies or the outliers first, doesn't remove the OP, it only scales it down. Along with the under-powered weapons as well, which introduces yet another issue to the developers. At least a MR lock would prevent access to those OP weapons until a certain point of progression.

So why not do both?

6 hours ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

Warframe is also not a majorly skill-based game. Not mainly PVP either. We don't want to limit players to only those who possess some degree of skill. I agree with mods as a medium for build variety, but forcing players to skillful play is undesired. The preferable option is a choice, with incentive. Mods are also limited to innate weapon mechanics, so the effect will be relatively insignificant in that regard. Not to mention, inconsistencies with weapons like Tonkor when scoring head-shots every time on contact. There is absolutely no difference in this case. Regarding that 'be a ninja' mindset...Sorry but this isn't a point in itself. We just had our speed reduced, it certainly doesn't feel ninja-like. In fact, nothing in the game actually does. The pace is way too slow to even consider the correlation.

I believe you underestimate players far too much. I bet my head that most of warframe players aren't new to shooters genre, so it's a no brainer to shoot for enemy weaknesses.
As for incentives, the only way for them to work is if they are the "best" option for the player. Why would a player equip a mod that allows him to deal extra damage on head shots if he can equip serration? The only way that would work was if it provided an even bigger bonus and there would be nothing preventing him from equipping both at the same time. As for ninja mindset, you're right. Ninjas were not nearly as powerful as the warframes. So how about magic space ninjas?

6 hours ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

Skill is a two-way mechanism. You stated that enemy-scaling stemmed from player OP. Which would mean DE could introduce a skill-oriented game-play from the other side as well, by introducing unique enemy mechanics such as the already available Nullifiers, Bursas, Juggernauts etc. The sole fact that these enemies require a change to the meta style of playing, suggests a certain level of skill is required to beat them. I for one, would not want to rid of these enemy-types, otherwise we would be back to aim and shoot with typical Lancers, Crewmen and Chargers.

I wouldn't mind bursas staying either, but Nullies are basically anti player cheese. Not only do they counter our abilities, they also counter slow firing weapons.

6 hours ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

PS. I think you're confusing me. One time you are saying you desire a challenge, now I see this "There would still be "End-game" content, it just wouldn't have to be a horde of 80+ level eximuses with insane EHP and damage." One cannot incorporate both perspectives as a rationale in their argument.

Yes, you're confused. Just because enemies can't oneshot you with a mean look doesn't mean that it wouldn't be challenging. Do a level 60 or 80 sortie without spamming abilities and see how far you can go. If my changes were implemented, enemies wouldn't have to scale to such a level because players wouldn't be able to do so much burst damage and wouldn't be able to spam abilities with impunity.