Overpowered players

[kevch456]

30 minutes ago, Oishii said:

I miss having to aim at the heads of enemies back when I started out, now i can body shot everything.

Well, I'm still doing HS on enemies, because the sound effect of multiple HS feels good, plus I love big numbers. :D

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

they literally said it was a mistake by a dev. every one loved primed pressure point without understanding it screwed every melee weapon in damage 3.0

And what is damage 3.0 exactly?

[IRVoidGuru]

1 minute ago, kevch456 said:

And what is damage 3.0 exactly?

it was a new damage system that was being constructed by the dev teams and was halted abruptly. now it is simply a hope for all players who think the current system needs work

[blackheartstar_pc]

2 hours ago, Oishii said:

I miss having to aim at the heads of enemies back when I started out

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from doing that now. If you are not going for headshots as default that's on you for not wanting to put in the effort. 

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

13 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

snip about compensation and constant skill use

well, like i pointed out earlier to me there are 2 options: skills are permanently available or to be used sporadically, limited by an energy system. both can work, but both apporaches cant be balanced the same way. i think ideally there should be some kind of hybrid solution: i think it's perfectly "cool" to be able to rely on stuff like freeze and ice wave. bubbles are already capped with 4 max, so to me that makes em work, too... but pretty much every 4 in this game is just too strong to be spammed constantly. maybe energy costs should be tweaked accordingly (make ults cost even more in relation to the others (150/200?), or maybe give just them a sort of cooldown / diminishing returns, whatevs. stuff like bastille should be capped at like 3/4 at once in a room imo, chaos shouldnt be recastable, like it used to be... yes it's no easy task but i think while working on energy economy on one side and skill power on the other a more balanced ratio could be achieved. to a point where we do use our skills reliably in battle to give each frame flavour but not being able to just stand around and mash 4 all day. to me this just kills the game as an action game from a certain point of progress. in my humble opinion gunplay should never be completely made redundant by skills in battle because this game to me is a 3rd person shooter after all. no, i don't i want this to be call of duty, it doesn't have to be black or white. freeze sh*t, shoot it. there ya go. freeze the whole map from time to time when things get ugly with that energy you stragically saved for that particular situation...

13 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

they enemies we have now are just the beginning, we seem OP due to the fact that we have NEVER fought anything like whats coming ( i hope)

that would be cool, but even against higher scaling / more damaging enemies gameplay would be just as dull (as in: consisting of pressing one button over and over) if our energy economy isn't tweaked... OR if it is tweaked by other game factors like nullies... and we all know how popular that solution is right...

13 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

i gadda ask for reasons sake. i soloed this alert with frost and used my Knowledge of what ice proc and High impact do together to insta-kill the lvl 9999s by smashing them into walls while frozen. would you consider this use of knowledge like skill? or would u consider this OP cheese?

please due let me know. as i felt smart and accomplished for doing it without covert , without daggers , while using a not commonly known proc effect. but i have a strong feeling that you are going to see it as OverPowered super cheese

well, it is smart (i didn't know that was possible actually). but it's also seems an exploit ;P. i mean they added infinite scaling to the game to make us leave in endless mission right? now if it's possible to instakill enemies the whole idea is lead ad absurdum, non? i don't wanna damper your accomplishment at all, but yeah to me that is something the devs should look at.

13 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

you made yourself this powerful. you only have yourself to blame for the fun being removed and the challenge being gone. why should the devs fix that for u when all u have to do is use different mods?

ok i will answer this only shortly this time because i think i perfectly explained myself about that earlier with my "wiley castle" post:

of course i got everything i could and of course i wanna use it, too because well, people play to win, it's only natural. but i still wanna be challenged to have to actually PLAY the game. i want endgame in which i HAVE to use everything i got, every primed mod and the best weapons available and still have to actively play an action game. not watch enemies hanging around while i step on pads. not press 4 for half an hour with the only danger being falling asleep from boredom. i don't want to have to gimp myself for that, how could that ever give the same feel of accomplishment, when i set the rules myself? that's not the point of a videogame. and yeah, if you put it that way: the devs are indeed payed to provide challenge, not me. ;)

Edited July 11, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[IRVoidGuru]

1 minute ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

well, it is smart (i didn't know that was possible actually). but it's also seems an exploit ;P. i mean they added infinite scaling to the game to make us leave in endless mission right? now if it's possible to instakill enemies the whole idea is lead ad absurdum, non? i don't wanna damper your accomplishment at all, but yeah to me that is something the devs should look at.

 

the devs added this as a feature and even openly told people what was possible with it and they did not listen. this is no exploit or messed up form of game breaking , it was the devs intent. is this somehow wrong?

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

the devs added this as a feature and even openly told people what was possible with it and they did not listen. this is no exploit or messed up form of game breaking , it was the devs intent. is this somehow wrong?

yeah well they added stuff like greedy mag, too... maybe they weren't aware of the implications. i don't know man. if they feel instakilling should be a thing so be it, i guess. but why even have different enemy levels anymore then?

as you might guess i'm an avid volt lover. there were times we could stack shields and get billions of damage with crit guns like the amprex on whole mobs. it was fun for a while alright but i wasn't salty when they took it out again because... yeah well, it was obviously simply broken. one has to learn to let things go that are unhealthy to the game imo.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[IRVoidGuru]

9 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

well, like i pointed out earlier to me there are 2 options: skills are permanently available or to be used sporadically, limited by an energy system. both can work, but both apporaches cant be balanced the same way. i think ideally there should be some kind of hybrid solution: i think it's perfectly "cool" to be able to rely on stuff like freeze and ice wave. bubbles are already capped with 4 max, so to me that makes em work, too... but pretty every 4 in this game is just too strong to be spammed. maybe energy costs should be tweaked accordingly (make ults cost even more in relation to the others), or maybe give just them a sort of cooldown / diminishing returns, whatevs. stuff like bastille should be capped at like 3/4 at once in a room imo, chaos shouldnt be recastable, like it used to be... yes it's no easy task but i think while working on energy economy on one side and skill power on the other a more balanced ratio could be achieved. to a point where we do use our skills reliably in battle to give each frame flavour but not being able to just stand around and mash 4 all day. to me this just kills the game as an action game from a certain point of progress. in my humble opinion gunplay should never be completely made redundant by skills in battle because this game to me is a 3rd person shooter after all. no, i don't i want this to be call of duty, it doesn't have to be black or white. freeze sh*t, shoot it. there ya go. freeze the whole map from time to time when things get ugly with that energy you stragically saved for that particular situation...
 

i do like my guns but i also like having powers that make weapons i like and are not so powerful, good enough to use in high end game play. i also enjoy a "all powers match" every once and a while, its fun to have and use they are something i love about this game. i could maybe get behind a higher energy base cost, but without nerfing to the ground all out restore abilities.

i have 15 loadouts with all different weapons and it was not easy to find that many primary and secondary weapons that good. i do use my gunplay as is now, but i also dont want to be forced into a corner to have to use "everything i have" unless its a competitive leader board task and then lets pull out the stops, otherwise i think only few things in this game are broken. covert lethality being able to kill instantly with a finisher is something i dislike due to is wide use, the main thing i dislike is making good accomplishments without that and get told things like " i could have gone longer with ivara and covert lethality " corrosive projection stacking with each other is a little overpowered but arguably so is armor, imo i think the best idea is to cap armor reduction (from these auras only) to 75 percent max , making the player have to use 1 of the Many armor removing powers in the game , or corrosive procs to do the rest

[IRVoidGuru]

43 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

 

that would be cool, but even against higher scaling / more damaging enemies gameplay would be just as dull (as in: consisting of pressing one button over and over) if our energy economy isn't tweaked... OR if it is tweaked by other game factors like nullies... and we all know how popular that solution is right...

 

ok i will answer this only shortly this time because i think i perfectly explained myself about that earlier with my "wiley castle" post:

of course i got everything i could and of course i wanna use it, too because well, people play to win, it's only natural. but i still wanna be challenged to have to actually PLAY the game. i want endgame in which i HAVE to use everything i got, every primed mod and the best weapons available and still have to actively play an action game. not watch enemies hanging around while i step on pads. not press 4 for half an hour with the only danger being falling asleep from boredom. i don't want to have to gimp myself for that, how could that ever give the same feel of accomplishment, when i set the rules myself? that's not the point of a videogame. and yeah, if you put it that way: the devs are indeed payed to provide challenge, not me. ;)

i have never had a problem with nullifyer crewman after i got used to it. my problem lays in the new nullifyers with the invisible dome of nullifying Death . that screws stealth game play and even farther corpus planet survivals for me. i think this would have been ok if it only stopped the activation and de-activation of powers. not remove already active powers.just my opinion.

do you constantly use only the same small group of 3-4 primary weapons? do you only use the same small group of secondary weapons? and id ask the same for melee but tbh ANY melee can be good with DE's new mods from shadow debit. if you do then there is your problem.

i have a challenge every day playing as long as i look for it and i can find that challenge with all 15 of my loadouts.  here may be the difference and so ill ask u to try something. if u dont want to its ok i get it, but hear me out take every load out u have( at MR21 normally its 10 but DE added 5 that you can  pay for and i was like TAKE MY MONEY!). take each of your load outs and give them all a primary secondary and melee weapon set up that works without any of them using the same weapon on any 2. work to  making these loadouts strong. every single one in high end game play should be able to last 1h ( at least ) in a t4s and be able to solo sorties. do i lean on some of my weapons? yes , do i still find myself falling off MAJORLY for doing this? Fk yes , am i having fun? FK YES !

P.S. in doing this i have learned so much about Weapons that ppl wouldn't even care about or try normally , i have made weapons that seem crappy do OMG things (without frames backing them) as an example i consider the mutalist cernos the most Over powered Bow iv used for Many reasons. but only after using crit with status on it

Edited July 11, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[IRVoidGuru]

54 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

yeah well they added stuff like greedy mag, too... maybe they weren't aware of the implications. i don't know man. if they feel instakilling should be a thing so be it, i guess. but why even have different enemy levels anymore then?

as you might guess i'm an avid volt lover. there were times we could stack shields and get billions of damage with crit guns like the amprex on whole mobs. it was fun for a while alright but i wasn't salty when they took it out again because... yeah well, it was obviously simply broken. one has to learn to let things go that are unhealthy to the game imo.

this change was made as early as the frost rework. im 97percent sure this was intended, but lets be honest here what else (be realistic ) does frost have as a form of damage? is ice proc really only worth being forced down to only being able to slow?( as its not frost but a fully frozen enemy that causes this reaction when applied with impact)i say its realistic and Unique to ice and imo should stay , do i use this ALL the time? noooooo, i dont even like frost but when i saw magnetic damage proc didn't remove shields of these 9999 enemies i tested ice+ impact as i knew that detail about it. there are other game aspects i know just as, if not more effective that i didnt try. as long as an enemy is resistant to knock back/impact proc this wouldn't even work. id also like to note that the lvl of impact has to rise higher for the effect to work on higher lvl enemies. just in corpus tight corners its easy access to globe them into a wall, this cant be done all the time and massively abused like covert. do u still find his aspect of Ice proc to be wrong?

P.S.id also like to add that greedy pull was patched and fixed , where as this ice proc effect was added during frost's rework ( or at least i never saw it before hand) greedy pull needed fixed but this ice effect WAS a fix

Edited July 11, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33
3 percent for unforseen circumstances

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

On 8. 7. 2016 at 0:04 AM, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

What I take from all this is that you think players should be nerfed because of player ability spam. Ability spam ONLY possible and ONLY effective with team play and especially with energy pads and trinity.

That's simply not true. 75% efficiency build means one ult for every energy orb you pick up. Combine that with energy overflow and you can be spamming ults every 7 seconds without even moving...

Quote

What you don't account for is solo play AND how modding for efficiency ruins other stats. Abilities that are build to be spammed ruin duration and strength.

Oh, but I did. I even posted the calculations how modding for efficiency is by far the cheapest and still gives the greatest benefits.

Quote

First, we must balance the game to have missions start with higher level enemies. That way, maxed out frames can test their metal against the challenges they seek without having to wait an hour. THEN, any warframe that proves "overpowered" will be balanced accordingly. Flat out saying all frames should be nerfed and enemies should be nerfed is just wrong.

Inflating enemy levels won't solve the fundamental problems. There's more to warframe than just endless missions with ridiculous enemy levels. I've explained multiple times how and why high level enemies aren't balanced or lore friendly.

On 10. 7. 2016 at 0:56 PM, Friedelinde said:

No one's stopping you from unequipping all mods and go have fun getting shot by corrupted bombards, while also unequipping all mods from your weapons and deal 30 damage on enemies!

Thing is, everyone have options to play how they like. The way I see it, Player A choose to grind their butts to maximum power, and Player B choose not to. At this moment, Player B is blaming player A for their choices and screaming for the game to be made to fit Player B's likings!

You see where this is going? Why the flip you are blaming your inability to take action on those who have chosen theirs? You don't want to nuke the map? well don't! no one's stopping you. You don't want to see player using the gears you don't like? well no one's stopping you from using yours do they?

I have never seen anyone saying "look at these people spending time to explore the map, DE should make it so that in exterminate mission if you didn't kill an enemy in 5 seconds-period the game would count as instant loss!", were there any now?

This is just $&*&*#(%&. Warframe is a CO-OP game. So I'm supposed to play solo? Or should I just watch as players obliterate whole waves with a press of a button? Your A,B analogy is not what I was talking about in the OP. This is not about the people that have grinded and those that didn't. This is about the game taking less and less skill to play the further you advance. Once you reach the "end-game" it's all about ability spamming and ability synergy for big damage numbers. That's something that any idiot can browse on the wiki, it's not skill.

On 10. 7. 2016 at 2:04 PM, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

players are not overpowered, here is something no 1 considered. and it is now confirmed. the Enemy base isn't done being made let alone in need of a change. this game AS IS is challenging if you play with what you want not whats best for the mission. i enjoy solo play and this would ruin that. we have a whole new solar system coming according to DE so lets just sit back and relax. i'm sorry for all you "balance" fanatics but this game was meant to give you a sense of being overpowered and i find that fun the problem with the OP is its only considering players who "choose the best loadout possible for each mission"  or " spam this all day because i know it works" but not looking at players who " play with what ever they like". 

Human civilization prospered because people thought of ways to make things more efficient. It's our nature. The fact that people are just rushing missions and spamming OP cheese is just more evidence that they aren't playing for gameplay, but rather for drops. So if those OP- best for mission weps are not supposed to be used, what's even the point of playing warframe anymore?

Quote

to top this off i ask you , in your idea of balance would you be ok with all weapons dealing basically the same ( around about ) output damage? do you want all enemies on planets to be a fraction of what we used to be able to face? are you ok with a warframe where you are LIMITED instead of the sky being the Limit. i am not, this post goes against everything i love about warframe. power progression exists to make you feel as if you are getting stronger( power creep as the misguided call it)and is a part of the game i enjoy. when a loadout gets stronger i get stronger.

Wow, it's like you didn't even read the OP or totally misinterpreted it on purpose. I never said anything about making all weapon DPS the same. My changes would limit you though. You would no longer be able to cheeze 2h+ T4 survival. Cry me a river.

Power progression would still exist and you would still need to level mods and acquire new weapons to proceed. Furthermore you would also require to apply some actual skill or alter your gameplay and weapon setup to actually get the most out of conditional mods.

Quote

do you play as intended by the devs or just use whats best cuz why use anything else(including your own brain). and ill continue to reject these posts until we can all see how this instills a sense of skill to players that Isn't forced down their throat

The DEVs were the one who gave us cheese, so using it is playing as intended unfortunately. DE can say whatever they want, but the way the people will play is not dictated by their wishes, but rather by available game mechanics and reward incentives they provide.

On 10. 7. 2016 at 4:32 PM, ciaphuscain said:

It's amazing how many people want players nerfed into the ground . Just totally amazing to me . For what? Saying players cheese the game isn't an answer when players are playing the game the way it , the frames and weapons were designed .

Yes, they are playing as intended by current game mechanics and killing the game in the process. How difficult is it to understand that when in an RNG based game players are allowed to blaze through the content, developers will respond with Grind walls and reducing drop rates? Is it really difficult to look back and realize that cheesy enemies were merely a response to player cheese to try and stop us a little?

On 10. 7. 2016 at 6:41 PM, Sy5tem said:

OP you should try "The Division" its exactly what you want.

team of 4 can empty 2 clip in enemy he will be 1/4 health ... oh and personally i am playing to rape enemy once at high level now work 1  hours on a map for piss poor drop/xp....

Real life is challenging enough. Don't need a games that make you work HOURS to do a couple of mission :( like the division

Nice try trying to twist my OP when I never suggested anything of the sort. Just because enemies don't die in one hit doesn't mean if takes 2 clips to reduce them to 1/4 HP. What you are arguing for is for a game to be a walk in the park and be rewarded for it. If you don't want a challenge just go to easier planets.

On 10. 7. 2016 at 6:54 PM, Bakkingamu said:

Is it a crime to feel powerful after spending hundreds of hours maxing out in a PVE game? This game is a great power trip, why do you want to struggle at every turn? They've already made the game more frustrating with energy draining and nullifiers (especially with the newest patch), give it a rest.

Feeling powerful and being OP are two very different things. The fact warframe if a PvE game doesn't reduce the need to have balance. And no, you wouldn't struggle at every turn because after hundreds of hours you'd have the skill to use its gear to its full potential. Something that would no longer be limited merely by mods, but actually by player input.

On 10. 7. 2016 at 8:55 PM, DatDarkOne said:

If you or anyone has been doing anything for 1000 hours, there will be little to no challenge left.  You have to be realistic about this.  Think of one thing (anything real or simulated) that is challenging after 1000 hours. 

Yeah, but you don't need to invest anywhere near 1000 hours to be OP. You don't even need potatoes and prime gear to complete the starchart.

21 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

...what the OP entails will kill solo play. or at least resort it to being ridiculously long just to complete simple missions. and lets not forget we have a WHOLE other solar system coming. they enemies we have now are just the beginning, we seem OP due to the fact that we have NEVER fought anything like whats coming ( i hope)

Just because you don't abuse game mechanics doesn't mean other won't. The last part really made me laugh. Aren't warframes supposed to be OP? How do you expect DE to throw enemies at us that can fight us on equal footing and expect us to be OP at the same time?

20 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

you made yourself this powerful. you only have yourself to blame for the fun being removed and the challenge being gone. why should the devs fix that for u when all u have to do is use different mods?

That's pretty much my only option right now.

I take:

• a non-primed frame and equip it with non-primed weapons and mods.
• Don't use syndicate weapons or other meta weps (tonkor,...)
• Don't use potatoes or leave 30 mod points
• Don't use fleeting expertise
• Don't use more than 2 forma
• don't use syndicate or large restores
• don't use operator powers

I can still solo the starchart and the void. It's also a lot more fun than doing sorties. It's obvious that this is the level enemies were balanced around. They can still wear me down if I'm too careless, but they'll never oneshot me. I can't oneshot them either and bombards can take quite a few hits before going down. I also can't afford to just spam abilities and actually have to keep an eye on my energy bar and only use higher tier abilities when necessary.

20 hours ago, (PS4)CrackFoxLegend said:

I would agree with all of these changes if in fact they would increase replayability or make it any more fun. They wouldn't though as it's difficult enough as it is to get the items we want/need. Increasing the time that it takes for me or anyone to get the resources, warframe, or weapon parts we need will not help the game but will hinder it. Most new players at this point have such a hard time getting into the game because they can't tackle levels alone to get those resources they need, so they beg for help and what do you know, op players help. They help because they are op and it won't take an hour of their playtime to help a new player get those 1000 polymer they need or whatever it is. They help because it doesn't feel like a job. Even with the changes they've implemented in the last year, it has become more difficult to help these newer players because resource drop rates have either decreased or items need more of the resources. I trivialize some content because when I'm farming, I don't want to spend the most time possible farming. I hate farming anything, I enjoy the gameplay when I'm finished with it. All of this being said, has everyone forgotten that they are reworking damage?

You obviously missed the point. The GAMEPLAY is supposed to be the reward, not the drops. Players are supposed to come back because they can be awesome space ninjas, not because they can get a weapon that does a million damage and mods that can reduce gameplay to standing still and spamming a button for hours. My suggestions would force players to get off their &#! and actually adjust their playstyle to their weapons and vice versa. The whole reason resource drops were reduced was because DE got greedy, but also because players could easily farm it. It's the same with drops. Putting valuable drops in C rotation isn't enough when teams can easily go for an hour and so they reduce the drop rate further.

What is the point of Prime access frames if they can be farmed easily? The solution? Make it harder to farm. How? My idea would be to make the missions where it drops harder, but DE opted to simply introduce resource grind walls and reduce the blueprint drop rates.

So you see, going with the current trend of OP players blazing through content will only lead to more grind and lower drop rates for blueprints and resources.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Fuzzy-Bunny

[DatDarkOne]

4 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Yeah, but you don't need to invest anywhere near 1000 hours to be OP. You don't even need potatoes and prime gear to complete the starchart.

You quoted me just to say this?  This is something everyone already knows except for those very new to the game. 

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

13 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

You quoted me just to say this?  This is something everyone already knows except for those very new to the game. 

My point was that putting in thousands of hours is merely for completionists sake. So players stating that they've played for thousands of hours and therefore "deserve" to be OP is a moot argument.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

My point was that putting in thousands of hours is merely for completionists sake. So players stating that they've played for thousands of hours and therefore "deserve" to be OP is a moot argument.

that wasn't what my comment was about at all.

Edited July 11, 2016 by DatDarkOne
correction

[Averath]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

My point was that putting in thousands of hours is merely for completionists sake. So players stating that they've played for thousands of hours and therefore "deserve" to be OP is a moot argument.

Actually, players deserve to be OP for a very simple reason. Warframe is a horde game. We're fighting hordes of enemies. Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine had a co-operative multiplayer mode that was very similar to the idea behind Warframe. I would say you could look at Left 4 Dead as well, but they were not incredibly powerful golems using magical powers while also dancing through the air.

 

Being OP is the very concept behind Warframe. If you don't want to be OP, then you're honestly playing the wrong game, especially the way DE has designed it. I don't agree with all of the design decisions, and wish they'd change a lot of aspects to make it more interesting, but this is the hand we've been dealt. Saying that players shouldn't be OP is like saying Warframe shouldn't be a Horde game. It is like saying Warframe shouldn't be the game that it is designed to be.

[(PSN)CrackFoxLegend]

6 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

I take:

• a non-primed frame and equip it with non-primed weapons and mods.
• Don't use syndicate weapons or other meta weps (tonkor,...)
• Don't use potatoes or leave 30 mod points
• Don't use fleeting expertise
• Don't use more than 2 forma
• don't use syndicate or large restores
• don't use operator powers

I can still solo the starchart and the void. It's also a lot more fun than doing sorties. It's obvious that this is the level enemies were balanced around. They can still wear me down if I'm too careless, but they'll never oneshot me. I can't oneshot them either and bombards can take quite a few hits before going down. I also can't afford to just spam abilities and actually have to keep an eye on my energy bar and only use higher tier abilities when necessary.

You obviously missed the point. The GAMEPLAY is supposed to be the reward, not the drops. Players are supposed to come back because they can be awesome space ninjas, not because they can get a weapon that does a million damage and mods that can reduce gameplay to standing still and spamming a button for hours. My suggestions would force players to get off their &#! and actually adjust their playstyle to their weapons and vice versa. The whole reason resource drops were reduced was because DE got greedy, but also because players could easily farm it. It's the same with drops. Putting valuable drops in C rotation isn't enough when teams can easily go for an hour and so they reduce the drop rate further.

What is the point of Prime access frames if they can be farmed easily? The solution? Make it harder to farm. How? My idea would be to make the missions where it drops harder, but DE opted to simply introduce resource grind walls and reduce the blueprint drop rates. 

So you see, going with the current trend of OP players blazing through content will only lead to more grind and lower drop rates for blueprints and resources.

Actually, you can use all of the things you mentioned that you couldn't and achieve almost exactly the same results. This is modding freedom. Anyone and everyone can choose the load out they want and mod it however they want. What you and so many others are after is putting strict limitations on everyone whether they like it or not. This is not freedom in any way. Like you said yourself, "My suggestions would FORCE player to get off their asses and adjust their playstyle to their weapons." If it forces them to adjust, it is not fun and it is not their playstyle.

I'm not sure that I have ever played a game just for the gameplay, it's always been for the story, the loot, or just to see what insane damage or setup me and my friends could come up with. I'm happy that DE has allowed us to have all of those, it's why I'm still playing after three years. This game offers so many options to fit so many  playstyles but people tend to stick to the "meta." Sure it annoys me but I don't care, let them play how they want just like people let you play how you want. Unless of course you're playing pubs lol, nobody gets to play how they want in pubs on any game out there. Any player in any public lobby ever has always been forced to play to the crowd. On battlefield multiplayer I can do what I want and die constantly or adjust to the crowd. Or I can play the solo campaign. At least you can do everything but a raid solo on warframe.

Lastly, on the subject of drops. There have always been items with crazy low drop rates and people have always complained about it. Resources haven't always been one of those but they are now, it's a nuisance and nothing else. If DE wants new players to have a good time farming resources then it's a good idea to keep players op or increase drop rates. It's not my problem if new players start complaining that they can't get resources very fast (which already happens.) Who wants to be forced into playing a certain way? Not me and not you apparently so pretty please keep that in mind when modding. I still have a 2 forma mk1 Paris that I can do 100% of the starchart with and have fun doing it. That doesn't mean I want to grind and grind and grind for one single item. If I'm farming, it's efficiency for me thanks. Especially when helping other players.

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

7 hours ago, Averath said:

Actually, players deserve to be OP for a very simple reason. Warframe is a horde game. We're fighting hordes of enemies. Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine had a co-operative multiplayer mode that was very similar to the idea behind Warframe. I would say you could look at Left 4 Dead as well, but they were not incredibly powerful golems using magical powers while also dancing through the air.

It looks like you equate being powerful to being OP. Being powerful means cutting down most enemies without much difficulty and using higher tier abilities to kill the more difficult enemies or get out of difficult situations. You can still cut a path through hundreds of enemies, but not without being challenged in doing so. Being OP on the other hand means CCing whole tiles before you even enter a room and then casually strolling in to one shot your enemies or staying stationary in the middle of a room and watch as every enemy that get's withing 50 m of your team gets slaughtered.

6 hours ago, (PS4)CrackFoxLegend said:

Actually, you can use all of the things you mentioned that you couldn't and achieve almost exactly the same results. This is modding freedom. Anyone and everyone can choose the load out they want and mod it however they want. What you and so many others are after is putting strict limitations on everyone whether they like it or not. This is not freedom in any way. Like you said yourself, "My suggestions would FORCE player to get off their asses and adjust their playstyle to their weapons." If it forces them to adjust, it is not fun and it is not their playstyle.

Yeah, I could equip useless mods to use up mod points and barely add anything useful to the weapon. That's not modding freedom, but stupidity. What you apparently can't comprehend is that every game forces you to use certain equipment and tactics according to its game mechanics. Warframe is currently "forcing" us to mod for damage and multishot, because everything else is pretty much a waste of a modslot atm. My proposition would actually expand the options and playstyles available.

6 hours ago, (PS4)CrackFoxLegend said:

I'm not sure that I have ever played a game just for the gameplay, it's always been for the story, the loot, or just to see what insane damage or setup me and my friends could come up with. I'm happy that DE has allowed us to have all of those, it's why I'm still playing after three years. This game offers so many options to fit so many  playstyles but people tend to stick to the "meta." Sure it annoys me but I don't care, let them play how they want just like people let you play how you want. Unless of course you're playing pubs lol, nobody gets to play how they want in pubs on any game out there. Any player in any public lobby ever has always been forced to play to the crowd. On battlefield multiplayer I can do what I want and die constantly or adjust to the crowd. Or I can play the solo campaign. At least you can do everything but a raid solo on warframe.

Then you've probably played very few games and even those were poor. Have you never played CS, TF2 or any multiplayer game? Those are purely for gameplay. Most drops are cosmetic and new weapons are sidegrades at best. How about strategy games?

Whether you like it or not, warframe is a co-op game. You're not supposed to run everything solo and yes, pubs are an essential part of the game. So DE needs to make sure that people can still have fun while playing Co-op and playing in pubs.

6 hours ago, (PS4)CrackFoxLegend said:

Lastly, on the subject of drops. There have always been items with crazy low drop rates and people have always complained about it. Resources haven't always been one of those but they are now, it's a nuisance and nothing else. If DE wants new players to have a good time farming resources then it's a good idea to keep players op or increase drop rates. It's not my problem if new players start complaining that they can't get resources very fast (which already happens.) Who wants to be forced into playing a certain way? Not me and not you apparently so pretty please keep that in mind when modding. I still have a 2 forma mk1 Paris that I can do 100% of the starchart with and have fun doing it. That doesn't mean I want to grind and grind and grind for one single item. If I'm farming, it's efficiency for me thanks. Especially when helping other players.

(sigh) You still don't get it. The more enemies you can kill the less drops they'll have to drop so you don't end up swimming in resources like most vets are. It's the same with missions. Most are pretty easy so people just blaze through them and rarely if ever fail. This means rewards get nerfed to compensate. Warframe is increasing in grind as player base get's more powerful and so we end up with insane resource requirements and low drop rates. Imagine for a sec that you couldn't complete 60 waves of T3 defense. DE could increase drop rates and make more different rotations. Instead of waiting for C rotations and praying to RNG to drop your part, you'd actually be challenged to reach the rotation and have a decent chance to get your drop if you did.

As for resource drops I'd implement MR and conclave check. Lower score would increase resource drop rate.  That way newbies could get resources easier and powerful players couldn't just farm low level planets with ease.

[Trayzerlol]

stopped reading at "nerf efficiency" my god. do you even realize what makes this game fun or why 175% builds are so popular? because actually using fancy looking abilities is fun for many players myself included. so no, nerf nerf nerf as you propose is not the solution here. warframe has a scaling issue. enemies as well as players are affected by that. de should figure out how to implement a real endgame and fix enemy scaling before even considering to touch the players ability to cope with all the ridiculous stuff the game throws at you.

also, feeling powerful when you grind a lot to develop your hero/character is kind of important in grind-based games like warframe, dfo, d3, poe and so on.  

[IRVoidGuru]

11 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

My point was that putting in thousands of hours is merely for completionists sake. So players stating that they've played for thousands of hours and therefore "deserve" to be OP is a moot argument.

no its not , i have everything i still put hours into this game cuz i enjoy the game play as it is , as a comment previously stated i enjoy the FREEDOM to do what ever i want with the mod system, frames,weapons. freedom is important in a game and your ideal to "force" Your! playstyle on other players is simply wrong. your post is like merica walkin in and saying" your an American now, don't care what you are or what you like you need to get better this way or fail at the system".

from what i can see you simply want to change the game from ground up but too many players have invested time effort and some real money into making everything they have as powerful as they have it. the only thing we can seem to agree on is that it is too easy for SOME players to access these nicer abilities like efficiency, energy overload , access to trinity, energy restores( even though they are firmly behind a resource barrier that players cant bypassed without a powerful friend, and come in stages to ensure low lvls have access to low restore) as for the mods though , sorry bro we dont want to be limited. we limit ourselves if we think its needed. but do you honestly think that changing all damage mods would do anything other then make players find the new cheese? these ideas don't add skill. they don't help the player base. if i didn't see u fully responding ( as logically as unreasonable can get ) to players i would have thought this to be a troll post "find something that ppl love or use a lot and make a Nerf me post"

Edited July 12, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[LuckyCharm]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

no its not , i have enverything i still put hours into this game cuz i enjoy the game play as it is , as a comment previously stated i enjoy the FREEDOM to do what ever i want with the mod system, frames,weapons. freedom is important in a game and your ideal to "force" Your! playstyle on other players is simply wrong. its like merica walkin in and saying" your an amarican now, dont care what you are or what your like you need to get better this way or fail at the system".

^ this. Not to mention the big gap in damage between a normal rank 30 gun vs a 6 forma'd rank 30 gun. Yes, 6 formas is overkill. Yes I do it for most of my weapons to feel powerful in game. Changing balance just because people are "op" is like saying everyone who formas should be the same damage as people who don't. Since I highly doubt that most players forma everything to overkill like I do. 

The only thing that needs balancing is the accessability of stronger weapons, since newbies can walk in, buy the tonkor, finish everything. If weapons were locked behind mastery walls a little more it would keep people just stomping the game with one weapon until they get at least some experience through the map. "Endgame" is always going to be filled with cheese frames and weapons, since at that point people don't have anything to do except OP out all their things 

[IRVoidGuru]

18 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

^ this. Not to mention the big gap in damage between a normal rank 30 gun vs a 6 forma'd rank 30 gun. Yes, 6 formas is overkill. Yes I do it for most of my weapons to feel powerful in game. Changing balance just because people are "op" is like saying everyone who formas should be the same damage as people who don't. Since I highly doubt that most players forma everything to overkill like I do. 

The only thing that needs balancing is the accessability of stronger weapons, since newbies can walk in, buy the tonkor, finish everything. If weapons were locked behind mastery walls a little more it would keep people just stomping the game with one weapon until they get at least some experience through the map. "Endgame" is always going to be filled with cheese frames and weapons, since at that point people don't have anything to do except OP out all their things 

i agree , it would be best to soon abandon this post as it seems these ideas are more hated then not and farther more with the changes DE has coming i don't see room in the game for this "police state version of mod variety", cant do this unless your aiming cant do this unless your attacking while sliding . cant make powers cost less! oh no. the ideas in this post would Kill individualism and freedom in the game

P.S i am not saying requirement mods like argon scope are wrong im simply saying forcing all mods to have more downside or requirements is not fun what-so-ever)

Edited July 12, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

57 minutes ago, Trayzerlol said:

stopped reading at "nerf efficiency" my god. do you even realize what makes this game fun or why 175% builds are so popular? because actually using fancy looking abilities is fun for many players myself included. so no, nerf nerf nerf as you propose is not the solution here. warframe has a scaling issue. enemies as well as players are affected by that. de should figure out how to implement a real endgame and fix enemy scaling before even considering to touch the players ability to cope with all the ridiculous stuff the game throws at you.

also, feeling powerful when you grind a lot to develop your hero/character is kind of important in grind-based games like warframe, dfo, d3, poe and so on.  

I'm not even going to argue with you since you can't even comprehend how warframe abilities affect our enemies and overall balance.

53 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

no its not , i have everything i still put hours into this game cuz i enjoy the game play as it is , as a comment previously stated i enjoy the FREEDOM to do what ever i want with the mod system, frames,weapons. freedom is important in a game and your ideal to "force" Your! playstyle on other players is simply wrong. your post is like merica walkin in and saying" your an American now, don't care what you are or what you like you need to get better this way or fail at the system".

Your "freedom" is fake though. Playing with a weapon equipped with trash mods just so you can claim you have freedom. Actual gameplay freedom would be for multiple mod setups to actually be game viable and be comparable with each other. No matter how much you cry for your freedom, it's indisputable that serration, multishot and elemental mods are the norm core mods that you have to equip. Not equipping them for the sake of "freedom" is merely a fake attempt at freedom since they're not actually viable and are at best used to joke around with OP weapons.

53 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

from what i can see you simply want to change the game from ground up but too many players have invested time effort and some real money into making everything they have as powerful as they have it. the only thing we can seem to agree on is that it is too easy for SOME players to access these nicer abilities like efficiency, energy overload , access to trinity, energy restores( even though they are firmly behind a resource barrier that players cant bypassed without a powerful friend, and come in stages to ensure low lvls have access to low restore) as for the mods though , sorry bro we dont want to be limited. we limit ourselves if we think its needed. but do you honestly think that changing all damage mods would do anything other then make players find the new cheese? these ideas don't add skill. they don't help the player base. if i didn't see u fully responding ( as logically as unreasonable can get ) to players i would have thought this to be a troll post "find something that ppl love or use a lot and make a Nerf me post"

No, it's not only some. Getting fleeting expertise isn't hard and you can also buy it for like 20 plat max. That alone brakes the energy system and it can be done by anyone. All other energy gain abilities just trivialize it further and even go so far that you don't even need Fleeting expertise to ignore the energy economy.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Fuzzy-Bunny

[IRVoidGuru]

2 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

It looks like you equate being powerful to being OP. Being powerful means cutting down most enemies without much difficulty and using higher tier abilities to kill the more difficult enemies or get out of difficult situations. You can still cut a path through hundreds of enemies, but not without being challenged in doing so. Being OP on the other hand means CCing whole tiles before you even enter a room and then casually strolling in to one shot your enemies or staying stationary in the middle of a room and watch as every enemy that get's withing 50 m of your team gets slaughtered.
 players couldn't just farm low level planets with ease.

the devs indeed intended to give the player the Sense of being OP. players who put in as much time as me and other Deserve to be Over Powered. more planets are coming all of them now are , wait for it ? LOW LVL ! its like swimming in a kiddy pool while waiting for the ocean to be open. the challenge exists for me and other players. in short if u don't feel as if you "earned" your power then you probably didn't. i got strong from farmin , iv done draco 3 times total and one was to clear the node!.  i farmed my fusion mats in survivals and my lvls on sechura my weapons on Oceanum. i earned what i can do, have you?

2 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Then you've probably played very few games and even those were poor. Have you never played CS, TF2 or any multiplayer game? Those are purely for gameplay. Most drops are cosmetic and new weapons are sidegrades at best. How about strategy games?

Whether you like it or not, warframe is a co-op game. You're not supposed to run everything solo and yes, pubs are an essential part of the game. So DE needs to make sure that people can still have fun while playing Co-op and playing in pubs.

 

this just makes me see the type of Force you would like to shove down our throats. when did the devs say that the game was built for Vet players to Not be able to easily solo?weather you like it or not your form of force wont be applied by saying things like "like it or not this is how it is " cuz your wrong. the current game system is evident of that

2 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Yeah, I could equip useless mods to use up mod points and barely add anything useful to the weapon. That's not modding freedom, but stupidity. What you apparently can't comprehend is that every game forces you to use certain equipment and tactics according to its game mechanics. Warframe is currently "forcing" us to mod for damage and multishot, because everything else is pretty much a waste of a modslot atm. My proposition would actually expand the options and playstyles available.

You are in NO MEANS being forced to use multishot. and with its removal you may see the changes your looking for are not needed. YOUR system isnt freedom , this system made by DE is. unless you find another who honestly thinks your system could possibly add ANY form of "freedom " then id have to call to ask what do you consider freedom? and i saw the jk in this post" expand the options and play-styles available" LMAO how???? by killing all our old options? cant make skills cost less without a bigger stepdown cant get actual damage increase at all in your system, damages never change just i get an effect if i hit some FORCED requirement. options don't seem wider with your plans, unless u can tell me those options and playstyles while also noting the number you would destroy with these changes then maybe this could be credible( but its not)

2 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

(sigh) You still don't get it. The more enemies you can kill the less drops they'll have to drop so you don't end up swimming in resources like most vets are. It's the same with missions. Most are pretty easy so people just blaze through them and rarely if ever fail. This means rewards get nerfed to compensate. Warframe is increasing in grind as player base get's more powerful and so we end up with insane resource requirements and low drop rates. Imagine for a sec that you couldn't complete 60 waves of T3 defense. DE could increase drop rates and make more different rotations. Instead of waiting for C rotations and praying to RNG to drop your part, you'd actually be challenged to reach the rotation and have a decent chance to get your drop if you did.

As for resource drops I'd implement MR and conclave check. Lower score would increase resource drop rate.  That way newbies could get resources easier and powerful players couldn't just farm low level planets with ease.

no i dont get it , players that play for long times (3000+hours) should be able to have ridicules resources build up. rewards and RNG have been so much less of a problem here then in any other game iv Every played. grind keeps players like you who strait up said " the only reason to spend that many hours is for completion" or something like that, here on and playing. i dont want rare or nice things easily id rather be able to make it to 60 waves. conclave point system is a jk and so is mastery rank untill BOTH are reworked. with that last idea ppl would stay low lvls letting thair OP friends grind out the resources for them making a new wave of lazy player

Edited July 12, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[IRVoidGuru]

6 minutes ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Your "freedom" is fake though. Playing with a weapon equipped with trash mods just so you can claim you have freedom. Actual gameplay freedom would be for multiple mod setups to actually be game viable and be comparable with each other. No matter how much you cry for your freedom, it's indisputable that serration, multishot and elemental mods are the norm core mods that you have to equip. Not equipping them for the sake of "freedom" is merely a fake attempt at freedom since they're not actually viable and are at best used to joke around with OP weapons.

It's not really a nerf post anyway. Well, unless you consider not being able to do hours of endless survivals to be a nerf.

when i first came to the forum i didn't know what nerf meant, thinking it was just making something so weak its unusable. example like turning the vectis prime into the Nerf Long Shot ! i was wrong, according to the players iv spoke with "any change that makes the item in Question less effective in any way" is a nerf. so yes this is Super Nerf sauce , i like doing hours of survivals and many many waves of deference , i enjoy my powers and the freedom the game has to offer. your only "anti freedom " argument is multishot and base damage mods witch DE said they wer working on anyway.

your simply using a currently being worked on system as a means to argue the game needs fixed but sorry buddy that 1 aspect is already being worked on. try an argument that the devs didn't already note as a problem ( plz note it has to actually be a problem to the game unlike your efficiency argument)

[bilun]

nerf again *sigh*

[Soketsu]

I'm surprise this topic are not dead yet

just too many players disagree and I'm sure this idea will just kill warframe

with this update (no really nerf) we see how much people complain about it, so imagine with such changes ?

 

I'm sorry to discuss with you further after the effort you finally made but the other Brsrkr don't motive me to do it but,

I think the only solution for you is to take a good break, (test/play others games &) come back later when you feel the need to really come back, no matter matter how the game is.